new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004

[TK]

That would suck marginally less if the options are reenabled after fixing the battery/clock. Fingers crossed?

The scope ships with the activation codes in a piece of paper, so I guess they can be re-enabled after the battery is fixed

[grouchobyte]

I would somehow expect that a clock changing deactivates options. How else should they ensure that timed licenses work? They probably have some fancy crypto ongoing as well. That's not like shareware in the nineties.

Timed licences? Really? So when you buy a licence for a this scope it will expire?
So you are essentially renting the option for some number of years? That would be dumb in this case.
I would expect a perpetual or forever license that never expires and is flaged in non volotile memory as such negating the need to check againt the date and time for an option with a forever attribute

@grouchobyte

[theatrus]

That would suck marginally less if the options are reenabled after fixing the battery/clock. Fingers crossed?

The scope ships with the activation codes in a piece of paper, so I guess they can be re-enabled after the battery is fixed

Mine didn't. The only paper included was the China RoHS diagram booklet 

[TK]

I would somehow expect that a clock changing deactivates options. How else should they ensure that timed licenses work? They probably have some fancy crypto ongoing as well. That's not like shareware in the nineties.

Timed licences? Really? So when you buy a licence for a this scope it will expire?
So you are essentially renting the option for some number of years? That would be dumb in this case.
I would expect a perpetual or forever license that never expires and is flaged in non volotile memory as such negating the need to check againt the date and time for an option with a forever attribute

@grouchobyte

Who said timed licenses?  There is no need to start a conspiracy theory...

The license sheet says PERMANENT on each of the options, so I don't think they will expire.  You as a consumer have rights (at least in the US) and if you purchased them as PERMANENT, they are PERMANENT.  Reality check, please.

[TK]

That would suck marginally less if the options are reenabled after fixing the battery/clock. Fingers crossed?

The scope ships with the activation codes in a piece of paper, so I guess they can be re-enabled after the battery is fixed

Mine didn't. The only paper included was the China RoHS diagram booklet 

The China RoHS is outside the small box.  Check inside the smaller box, it is a single piece of paper (US letter sized) with some stickers stapled on.

[ws2812b]

Sure for example if you want to get an evaluation license of some kind. Also R&S has options costing more than a car (although not on this box). So why not rent them? And I would expect they use the same license key library or even hardware on all instruments.
@Mike: did you see any special piece of hardware which could hold the licenses?

[Myrv]

Ok, decided to swing by home during lunch to gather a bit more info:

This is the options screen after a cold restart (loss of clock, note upper right corner).



Didn't have time to test much but the AWG appears to work (with the wrong date):





The inactive and de-activated options don't list anytihng either (still with wrong date):







And after changing the date nothing seems to have changed:





So I have no idea what options have been disabled.  Looks like the error message may be in error?  Either way it still sucks.

I'll try Mike's suggestions later tonight (try and measure and/or wiggle battery).

[mikeselectricstuff]

@Mike: did you see any special piece of hardware which could hold the licenses?

No - don't see any need for this, just needs some nonvolatile memory.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Who said timed licenses?  There is no need to start a conspiracy theory...

Any licensing system is going to be designed to allow for the option of evaluation licenses etc. for flexibility - you can't read any intent into that.

[nctnico]

Who said timed licenses?  There is no need to start a conspiracy theory...

Any licensing system is going to be designed to allow for the option of evaluation licenses etc. for flexibility - you can't read any intent into that.

Yes, but what is it worth if it can be bypassed by simply changing the clock? A better solution would be some kind of countdown based on days in use but it should be laid back in order not to cause problems for legitimate users who may be on a deadline to finish a project. Nothing is worse than your tools dying on you while working on a rush job.

[PA0PBZ]

Hmm...

[TK]

Who said timed licenses?  There is no need to start a conspiracy theory...

Any licensing system is going to be designed to allow for the option of evaluation licenses etc. for flexibility - you can't read any intent into that.

Sorry, I misunderstood grouchobyte's post...

[Myrv]

Hmm...

Ya, that caught me off guard as well.  As far as I can tell that's the firmware date though.  The actual scope date is in the far upper right corner (note the 2000-01-01 in the unset state and 2017-04-28 in the set state).

[PA0PBZ]

Ya, that caught me off guard as well.  As far as I can tell that's the firmware date though.  The actual scope date is in the far upper right corner (note the 2000-01-01 in the unset state and 2017-04-28 in the set state).

Ah yes, I'm just stupid today 

[masto]

Software is hard, especially when product requirements are ambiguous and conflicting. I can easily envision a scenario where both of these things are true in the implementation:

• On startup, if the time appears to have gone backwards, emit a "clock tampering" message and consider all licenses expired
• When validating licenses, if type = "perpetual", don't check for expiration

[JoHr]

Other R&S devices provide permanent options as well as temporary ones.
So the warning looks like a standard implementation.

[Joel_l]

Mine came with a sheet with all the license keys. Looks like the attached image.

Joel

That would suck marginally less if the options are reenabled after fixing the battery/clock. Fingers crossed?

The scope ships with the activation codes in a piece of paper, so I guess they can be re-enabled after the battery is fixed

Mine didn't. The only paper included was the China RoHS diagram booklet 

[Joel_l]

@Myrv - looks like your scope is all good and normal now. As long as the time and date sticks after leaving it unplugged for a while.

Your license pages look like mine.

Joel

[Robaroni]

MYRV,
I usually exhaust every option before returning an instrument. I'd stick a long plastic screwdriver through the case and just nudge the battery in case it's just a poor connection. May be out in left field but it doesn't hurt.

Sorry came in late, I see this has already been suggested!
Rob

[Joel_l]

Looking at Myrv's screen shots, is there a 1.204 version of FW? I notice the date is a couple weeks newer than mine. Mines at 1.203

[TK]

Looking at Myrv's screen shots, is there a 1.204 version of FW? I notice the date is a couple weeks newer than mine. Mines at 1.203

Yes, R&S implemented a new feature called "RTC battery error and clock reset" 

[NA5WH]

Day 44 passes and still not a word from TE. Bought before the "30 day" notice showed up on the website (with R&S marketing indicating dealers were stocked)...  got an "expected" ship date of today 24 days ago...   and .. its after work hours everywhere in the US now. 

Somewhat disappointing.  Had been in the shopping phases to get something on-hand for next month ... and thought stars had aligned. Then watching people buy after I did, and get in like 2 weeks or less... I can't decide if I should be frustrated with RS for poor stock management or the vendor  i bought from for not seeming to try hard, nor really update me on my order, especially since they've had my money in their hands for 6 weeks now. 

such is life i guess.

[Myrv]

So did some more poking around (literally, with a long probe).    The battery itself seems to be fine.  Measuring from the cell (+) to the chassis gives 3.1V.  Measuring from the battery clip to the chassis though gives nothing (0 V).   If I press down on one of the contact spring tabs on the battery clip I can get a voltage but as soon as I release pressure it loses contact again.  This is the same for both of the contact tabs.  With some effort I managed to move the battery around.  For a brief moment it made contact and survived two power cycles then failed again. I've managed to rotate the battery 180°, testing at multiple spots, but failed to make it connect again.  Strangely the battery seems to be in there pretty good.  I have no idea what's holding it in yet not making electrical contact.  Anyway looks like a bum battery clip or some kind of contamination. It is likely a 5 minute fix although I'll let them do that.

R&S has agreed to FedEx it back to their factory on their dime.  Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

[Myrv]

@Myrv - looks like your scope is all good and normal now. As long as the time and date sticks after leaving it unplugged for a while.

Unfortunately not.   Any power cycle (soft or hard) results in the RTC error message.  The license error is also displayed but after some further investigation it doesn't seem to actually mean anything (all the options seem to be enabled regardless of the error message).  Still needs to be fixed though.  Looks like it's going back next week.   

[norks]

Day 44 passes and still not a word from TE. Bought before the "30 day" notice showed up on the website (with R&S marketing indicating dealers were stocked)...  got an "expected" ship date of today 24 days ago...   and .. its after work hours everywhere in the US now. 

Somewhat disappointing.  Had been in the shopping phases to get something on-hand for next month ... and thought stars had aligned. Then watching people buy after I did, and get in like 2 weeks or less... I can't decide if I should be frustrated with RS for poor stock management or the vendor  i bought from for not seeming to try hard, nor really update me on my order, especially since they've had my money in their hands for 6 weeks now. 

such is life i guess.

I know how you feel. I ordered from TE within the first couple days of the promotion and it finally arrived this week, so more than 40 days for me too. It was very frustrating seeing later orders get filled far sooner. Still, we're part of the lucky group who are getting the deal. It was never even an option for many who wanted it. And judging by all the angst this promotion seems to have caused we'll probably never see a deal like this again, just more of the typical free option here and there. Regarding TE, now that my order is done I'm happy with their service. When I contacted them midway through they followed up and it sounded like the delay was more on the R&S side, but I think they could've done more to move things along too.

edit: I mean Tequipment, not Test Equity