Low Cost PCB's Low Cost Components

Author Topic: New Rigol DS1000Z Plus models - DS models which are MSO field upgradable  (Read 7340 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1373
  • Country: no
It seems that Rigol has launched new Plus models in the DS1000Z series: DS1074Z Plus and DS1104Z Plus. These models are MSO ready, and can be upgraded in the field with an MSO upgrade option.

Check the latest datasheet of the MSO/DS1000Z series which confirms this:
http://www.rigol.com/download/Oversea/DS/Datasheet/MSO&%20DS1000Z_DataSheet_EN.pdf

Or the table with model options here:
http://www.rigol.com/prodserv/DS1000Z/

Based on the information in the datasheet or the table, they seem to discontinue the standard DS1074Z and DS1104Z models, and have these models replaced with the DS1074Z Plus and the DS1104Z Plus (MSO upgradable). Only the DS1054Z will stay as a non-Plus model.

Apparently they announced this on the Chinese website already on July 7th :)

http://cn.rigol.com/news/latest/d3737b63.html

https://translate.google.no/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcn.rigol.com%2Fnews%2Flatest%2Fd3737b63.html&edit-text=&act=url

The upgrade kit costs around 240/290 EUR (excl./incl. VAT). See attachments.

It will be more expensive in total when you buy the MSO upgrade later on, if you do the calculation:

60 EUR difference between normal DS1000Z version and DS1000Z Plus version
240 EUR for MSO upgrade

You pay 100 EUR more in total, when you upgrade later on, versus buying the MSO model upfront.
(Based on the reference price list in the attachment. This could be different with other suppliers).

Note that I am not affiliated with AR Benelux. They are the only supplier that I could find with updated information about DS1000Z Plus models.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 07:52:52 PM by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline dadler

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 842
  • Country: us
Interesting. I've never used one of the Rigol MSO scopes, but my impression from research is the implementation leaves a lot to be desired. Seems like an interesting business approach. Perhaps it's just a cost savings measure, so they can focus on an identical hardware platform ?
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1373
  • Country: no
The new Plus models are only available in the DS1000Z series. It makes sense to offer the MSO as an option in the cost sensitive scope range, directed towards hobbyists and students.

People who buy either the MSO/DS2000A and MSO/DS4000A series are less cost sensitive, and will buy the right model up front, based on their specific needs, with both short term and long term needs in mind.

Then there remains the question if the end user can perform the MSO upgrade himself, or whether the unit has to be sent in to the supplier or a Rigol service center.

Given that they call it an MSO field upgrade it most likely can be done yourself.
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9595
  • Country: nz
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
The new Plus models are only available in the DS1000Z series. It makes sense to offer the MSO as an option in the cost sensitive scope range, directed towards hobbyists and students.

People who buy either the MSO/DS2000A and MSO/DS4000A series are less cost sensitive, and will buy the right model up front, based on their specific needs, with both short term and long term needs in mind.

Then there remains the question if the end user can perform the MSO upgrade himself, or whether the unit has to be sent in to the supplier or a Rigol service center.

Given that they call it an MSO field upgrade it most likely can be done yourself.
That is now MSO options are enabled with Siglent. Supply SN and scope ID code and receive option enabling code to be entered into the scope by the user. Easy.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist & NZ Siglent Distributor
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1373
  • Country: no
Does this mean that the DS1000Z Plus models would already have the external LA connector mounted on the front, and the internal PCB board would already be populated with the extra dedicated FPGA for LA operations?

So the MSO upgrade option would consist of 1) RPL1116 Logic Analyzer pod, 2) Logic Analyzer leads and probe tips, 3) Key code to enable MSO option in software?

Or maybe there is no key code at all, and just the LA pod and LA leads/probe tips are missing in the DS1000Z Plus model, compared to the MSO1000Z model.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 10:37:33 PM by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline kwass

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 317
  • Country: us
from their new datasheet:

Quote
Same memory depth for the digital channels, serial bus
trigger and decoding on digital channels

So it seems that they've answered the question about using memory for decoding.  The 1054z will not have that ability (because it does have digital input options) and the other models will have it, but only for digital signals.  I'm reading something into this statement of course, but since they've had the opportunity to change this with the new products and new datasheet it seems like this is where they want to draw the line as far as memory usage goes.




-katie
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1373
  • Country: no
I think they wrote this already in the datasheet of the MSO series, which seems incorrect, as people have confirmed that the decoding is only done on all the data which is displayed on the screen. Even the event table only covers the events for all the data which is displayed on the screen.

The real problem with that implementation is that if you start tweaking the time base to cram more data on the screen, that the sample rate becomes too low and the decoding is no longer working properly when the sample rate is not big enough to handle the data rate of the incoming digital channels.
 

Offline kwass

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 317
  • Country: us
I missed that.  So it's just a holdover of an incorrect statement on the original datasheet.  Perhaps there's hope still for Rigol fixing this and un-greying-out the button that let's you use all of memory for the decoding -- they did that for the FFT functin in the latest firmware.
-katie
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1373
  • Country: no
Somebody with the right connections at Rigol, should bring this up with their product management.

It's just a matter of implementing it right. Looks quite straightforward to do it.

With the current implementation, one can wonder if Rigol has really tested and actually used protocol decoding for some bigger use case. If they would have, they would see immediately that they have to change the current implementation.
 

Offline ebastler

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1148
  • Country: de
It's just a matter of implementing it right. Looks quite straightforward to do it.

With the current implementation, once can wonder if Rigol has really tested and actually used protocol decoding for some bigger use case. If they would have, they would see immediately that they have to change the current implementation.

I am pretty sure that Rigol are aware that it would be much more useful to have decoding from the complete memory. Please remember that this is the way it was documented in the initial manuals! (Decoding source was supposed to be user-switchable between full memory or screen buffer only.) They certainly wanted it to work that way, and did not implement the screen-buffer-only version just because they never thought of the right use case.

Which leads me to the conclusion that there probably is some not-so-straightforward issue with the implementation. Otherwise they would probably have fixed it by now, rather than changing the manual. Just postulating how you think the world should be does not always work  ::)
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1373
  • Country: no
Re: New Rigol DS1000Z Plus models - DS models which are MSO field upgradable
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2015, 08:07:40 AM »
What about the LA button on the front panel in the DS1000Z Plus model?

The normal DS1074Z model does not have the button present, but the internal PCB already had the key print and the LED in the BOM structure (someone forget to remove it from the BOM structure, as Dave mentioned in a video).

I guess they will have a blank button present now in the DS1074Z Plus model.
And that's why they mention "model label" in the MSO upgrade:
"MSO upgrade package for DS1000Z Plus only, including logic analyzer probe(RPL1116) and model label"
 

Offline NoItAint

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 33
  • Country: us
Re: New Rigol DS1000Z Plus models - DS models which are MSO field upgradable
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2015, 03:13:50 AM »
Looks like Rigol dropped prices on DS1074Z and DS1074Z-S but quite a lot.

They look to be making room for these new models!
That was quick.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1373
  • Country: no
Re: New Rigol DS1000Z Plus models - DS models which are MSO field upgradable
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2015, 01:07:12 AM »
Are the Plus models already available in Europe? Which distributor(s)?

Note that AR Benelux had these Plus models in their Rigol price list from August, but the Plus models are no longer listed in their Rigol price list from September.

Did you Rigol decide not to launch these Plus models after all, or is the product launch delayed?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 01:14:53 AM by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline JSE009

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
  • Country: nl
Re: New Rigol DS1000Z Plus models - DS models which are MSO field upgradable
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2015, 06:37:47 AM »
Are the Plus models already available in Europe? Which distributor(s)?

Note that AR Benelux had these Plus models in their Rigol price list from August, but the Plus models are no longer listed in their Rigol price list from September.

Did you Rigol decide not to launch these Plus models after all, or is the product launch delayed?

There is a distributor in Bratislava :-/O
They sell the DS1000Z Plus series.
http://www.rlx.sk/en/61-4ch-oscilloscopes
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 06:40:46 AM by JSE009 »
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf