Author Topic: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope  (Read 1402783 times)

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Offline marmad

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #125 on: September 29, 2014, 09:52:41 pm »
So why did "Rigol's management" allow a 100MHz upgrade via keygen? It's not a purchaseable option, why is it even in there?

Answer: It's marketing in its purest form.  It's the attention grabber - you can get yourself an expensive scope for the price of a cheap one!

You're perhaps unaware of the history of the firmware/hacking developments. Rigol's DSOs in a particular series (DS1000E, DS1000Z, DS2000, DS4000, etc) have, for a few years already, set their bandwidth based on the model number in memory. My DS2072 thought it was a DS2202 based on it's model number in memory long before hacks for keys were published here.

None of the UltraVision models (DS2000, DS4000, DS6000) had the working code for an upgradeable bandwidth option until it was included in the third (or fourth?) FW version released for the DS2000 models - with Rigol's intention to begin selling BW upgrades along with the other options. But the timing was bad for Rigol (or good - depending on your point of view) because that release happened just before/as the option key system was being hacked here - allowing people to start enabling the extra bandwidth with keys.

Anyone who has examined the FW knows that much of it is ported between all of the various UltraVision models - so the BW option code has found it's way into the newer DS1000Z FW. Certainly, Rigol could have decided to remove that added portion of the code - and perhaps they will at some point - but as many people have pointed out, they are certainly aware of the advantages of the hack on sales, although it's hard to know for sure how 'public' they would want the information to be, before they took more serious steps to try to stop it.

I think Rigol's current thinking on the subject is this: as long as they don't SELL the upgradeable bandwidth option, it's not an actual, sanctioned upgrade. That means that some people are STILL buying the upper-end models, since anyone whose livelihood depends on the higher bandwidth won't risk that the lower-end models with illegal upgrades are exactly equivalent. For those that don't care, the hack provides more incentive for purchase.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 10:10:23 pm by marmad »
 

Online alank2

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #126 on: September 29, 2014, 10:11:28 pm »
Did anyone ever figure out the menu 7-6-7-utiity sequence for the ds1000z series yet?

Also, is firmware posted for this model anywhere?  I thought someone had a site where they hosted these things.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #127 on: September 29, 2014, 10:32:35 pm »
None of the UltraVision models (DS2000, DS4000, DS6000) had the working code for an upgradeable bandwidth option until it was included in the third (or fourth?) FW version released for the DS2000 models - with Rigol's intention to begin selling BW upgrades along with the other options. But the timing was bad for Rigol (or good - depending on your point of view) because that release happened just before/as the option key system was being hacked here - allowing people to start enabling the extra bandwidth with keys.

Right, so the question is: Why wasn't that option removed in the fifth (or later) versions of the firmware?

The only answer that makes sense is that the hacking caused a big spike in sales somewhere, either by:
a) opening up a new market segment (eg. people who buy scopes with their own money), or:
b) taking sales away from manufacturers whose main selling point is "price".

 

Offline marmad

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #128 on: September 29, 2014, 11:00:59 pm »
Right, so the question is: Why wasn't that option removed in the fifth (or later) versions of the firmware?

I already answered the question with the final paragraph of my post. But my point was to refute your proposition that the entire thing was a marketing ploy by Rigol from the beginning - the hacking happened simultaneously with the bandwidth upgrade option release - and Rigol tried to prevent the hacking with security measures in subsequent DS2000(A) FW releases.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #129 on: September 29, 2014, 11:17:09 pm »
my point was to refute your proposition that the entire thing was a marketing ploy by Rigol from the beginning

I don't think I said "from the beginning". Maybe it started accidentally but the continuation seems deliberate.

 

Offline littledino2112

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #130 on: September 30, 2014, 02:13:01 am »
Hi, would anybody be able to send me the eevblog discount? Thanks a bunch :)
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #131 on: September 30, 2014, 04:06:47 am »
Right, so the question is: Why wasn't that option removed in the fifth (or later) versions of the firmware?

The only answer that makes sense is...

You seem to be strangely intent on proving your point, regardless of the cost.  And willing to extend this discussion, ad infinitum.  You've gotten some good background information and explanations from Marmad, yet you're still not satisfied.

Perhaps if you continue long enough, your arguments will convince Rigol of what they "should" be doing, and create custom builds that work with only specific models, and permanently lock out those capabilities.  (Or create roadblocks that none of the people who did all the work to enable the enhancements feel inclined to spend their time on.)

Maybe you just enjoy poking the bear, but from my perspective, such prolonged public discussion and speculation can yield no positive results.  The phrase "looking a gift horse in the mouth" comes to mind.
 

Offline gmit77

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #132 on: September 30, 2014, 05:37:19 am »
Batter Fly has stock too, www.batterfly.com/shop/rigol-ds1054z
also in discounted bundle with HAKKO FX-888D http://www.batterfly.com/shop/bundle-ds1054z-fx888d

feel free to contact us  :-+


The place I got mine from is already posting ">21 days" delivery time on their front page.

http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS1054Z.html

Meilhaus has them on stock: http://www.meilhaus.de/en/rigol+ds1054z.htm
Batter Fly
never stop innovating
 

Offline OldEE

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #133 on: September 30, 2014, 06:17:59 am »
Some folks have commented on noisy fans on Rigol scopes.  Anyone care to share an opinion on the DS1054Z fan noise?

Thanks.
 

Offline 0xfede

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #134 on: September 30, 2014, 07:59:14 am »
I have promised some test but today was a busy one. I returned the scope to the owner and I didn't perform any test. Sorry for that.  |O

@OldEE
Quote
Some folks have commented on noisy fans on Rigol scopes.  Anyone care to share an opinion on the DS1054Z fan noise?
I had a 1054z for few days and personally I don't think it's noisy. Or maybe I'm getting older and I need hearing aid.


Semel in anno licet insanire.
 

Offline LaurentR

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #135 on: September 30, 2014, 08:19:42 am »
Some folks have commented on noisy fans on Rigol scopes.  Anyone care to share an opinion on the DS1054Z fan noise?

Thanks.

I assume it's the same as on the other DS1000Z (I have a DS1074Z). It's not horrible but it is somewhat noisy. In a quiet setting (my house), I personally found it too tiring and swapped the fan out. In a noisier environment (lab with people, other equipment with fan), it should be fine. YMMV.
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #136 on: September 30, 2014, 10:42:34 am »
Another forum user with a DS1104Z (Rosendorfer) has noted in another thread a waveform update rate considerably better than Rigol's claimed maximum of 30 000 wfrm/s. I have just run through a few settings and have recorded the following using my DS1054Z:

Timebase (ns)   wfrm/s    data points
524 00060
1032 000120
2030 000240
5063 000600
10023 0001 200
20013 0002 400
5005 7006 000
10002 90012 000

(all figures use Dot mode with Auto memory depth, signal source is 1MHz sine wave, single channel mode).

Using 12K memory depth the scope still delivers 41 000 wfrm/s at 50ns.
Switching to Vector display gives 37 000 wfrm/s at 50ns.
 

Offline aargee

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #137 on: September 30, 2014, 11:20:45 am »
Well, it is time for me to get a 'modern' DSO to go along side my 30yo BWD analog and Kikusui DSO CROs.
Just hobbyist work, and the 1054 looks like the way to go at the moment.

Dave, is your sample coming from Emona? and do they still (I think they used to) do deals for EEVBlog members? I'd like to support local if the pricing isn't too extreme.

- Rob.
Not easy, not hard, just need to be incentivised.
 

Online Nerull

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #138 on: September 30, 2014, 12:13:08 pm »
Yes, that way if they have the programmed scopes in inventory, but they get orders for a different model, they can pull them out of the boxes, reprogram them, and put on new stickers.

Never going to happen.

Edit: But let's assume it did ... they're perfectly capable of flashing a temporary internal-use-only firmware that allows key changes, let it run, then re-flash the latest consumer firmware.

Which is still more work and cost than a unified firmware.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #139 on: September 30, 2014, 04:10:00 pm »
Some folks have commented on noisy fans on Rigol scopes.  Anyone care to share an opinion on the DS1054Z fan noise?

It definitely has one. Not silent.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #140 on: September 30, 2014, 04:38:28 pm »
Dave, is your sample coming from Emona? and do they still (I think they used to) do deals for EEVBlog members? I'd like to support local if the pricing isn't too extreme.

They have never done deals for EEVblog members, their local prices are already very competitive.
 

Offline aive

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #141 on: September 30, 2014, 04:40:51 pm »
Well, it is time for me to get a 'modern' DSO to go along side my 30yo BWD analog and Kikusui DSO CROs.
Just hobbyist work, and the 1054 looks like the way to go at the moment.

Dave, is your sample coming from Emona? and do they still (I think they used to) do deals for EEVBlog members? I'd like to support local if the pricing isn't too extreme.

- Rob.

I just placed an order with Emona and it's a 4-5 week lead-time :/
 

Offline gmit77

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #142 on: September 30, 2014, 05:47:16 pm »
hello we have one Extech 407760 sound meter in stock, we will try that unit to check the noise level of the Rigol DS1054Z
we will then shortly post the result, hope with some images and video
ciao

Some folks have commented on noisy fans on Rigol scopes.  Anyone care to share an opinion on the DS1054Z fan noise?

Thanks.
Batter Fly
never stop innovating
 

Online Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #143 on: September 30, 2014, 07:30:55 pm »
You seem to be strangely intent on proving your point, regardless of the cost.  And willing to extend this discussion, ad infinitum.  You've gotten some good background information and explanations from Marmad, yet you're still not satisfied.

Marmad can never be wrong and I should shut up. Got it...  :-+

 

Offline tom66

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #144 on: September 30, 2014, 08:25:10 pm »
Some folks have commented on noisy fans on Rigol scopes.  Anyone care to share an opinion on the DS1054Z fan noise?

Thanks.

Noisy enough to be audible in a quiet lab on my DS1074Z. Much noisier than my laptop or computer.
 

Offline aargee

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #145 on: September 30, 2014, 09:30:50 pm »
Thanks Dave.

I knew Tequipment did discounts but I don't know where I got the idea Emona did from.  :-//

Hmm 4-5 week lead time....

Not easy, not hard, just need to be incentivised.
 

Offline godFather89

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #146 on: October 01, 2014, 01:41:41 am »
My DS1054Z should arrive tomorrow. Can't wait to get home (I'm in a trip) to play with it.  8)
 

Online alank2

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #147 on: October 01, 2014, 01:45:37 am »
I'm waiting on that UPS truck today...  Hopefully this afternoon and not this evening.
 

Offline leppie

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #148 on: October 01, 2014, 02:14:04 am »
Mine Thursday or Friday
 

Online Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #149 on: October 01, 2014, 03:27:48 am »
I've just been playing with the USB/Ethernet interface... you can basically use the 'scope from your desktop PC.

Amazing to see things like this in a bottom-of-the-range oscilloscope that only cost $400. This is the sort of feature that would normally be used to differentiate (eg.) the 1000-series from the 2000-series.

Hats off to Rigol. Again.

I was also looking at the differences between "100MHz" and "50MHz" modes (I figured out how to switch it back&forth between DS1054Z and DS1100Z). On the sort of signals I normally look at, ie. outputs from microcontrollers, there's nothing in it. Less than half a bee's dick. If that.

This confirms my initial suspicions that the 50MHz version is plenty for me (and with multiple channels enabled the two perform exactly the same anyway...)

I might leave it as a DS1054Z just in case it dies and has to be sent back under warranty.
 


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