Author Topic: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope  (Read 1417568 times)

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Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2000 on: February 14, 2016, 12:53:02 pm »
I don't think it's safe to assume anything about software from a company that lets stuff like this get through:

The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Online xrunner

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2001 on: February 14, 2016, 01:45:45 pm »
I don't think it's safe to assume anything about software from a company that lets stuff like this get through:

Yea - that's pretty bad.  :-//
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2002 on: February 14, 2016, 05:47:09 pm »
I don't think it's safe to assume anything about software from a company that lets stuff like this get through:
i can understand your nitpicking comment if you are not the one who develop softwares.... do you believe its intentional?
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2003 on: February 14, 2016, 10:38:32 pm »
I don't think it's safe to assume anything about software from a company that lets stuff like this get through:
i can understand your nitpicking comment if you are not the one who develop softwares.... do you believe its intentional?

Nitpicking? People are complaining about not being able to press their own buttons properly, and about "fan noise"..... and you think I'M "nitpicking" when I point out a bug that tells you you have 8 "PLUSES" when you actually have 10 PULSES, or that can't even synchronize the Math result with the two traces going into the Math? Or when I complain about _all_ the Measurements simply stopping and refusing to start up again when Math is in use? Nitpicking? Ok, whatever dude.   :-DD

And no, I don't think they are doing it intentionally. They are doing it out of carelessness and incompetence. Which do you think is worse?    :palm:
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2004 on: February 14, 2016, 11:04:41 pm »
Nitpicking?
i saw your pluses report scattered everywhere. post it in bug/wishlist thread, report to rigol and hope for the best. in the mean time dont use it or if its really important how many pluses on the screen, then you need to eyeball it. imho the bug has not enough merit to decide to buy or not i my self havent a need for it yet. the OP may search the forum for complete bug list, then he can make the decision whether is that important or not. the pluses bug is hillarious though..
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2005 on: February 14, 2016, 11:25:33 pm »
Nitpicking?
i saw your pluses report scattered everywhere. post it in bug/wishlist thread, report to rigol and hope for the best. in the mean time dont use it or if its really important how many pluses on the screen, then you need to eyeball it. imho the bug has not enough merit to decide to buy or not i my self havent a need for it yet. the OP may search the forum for complete bug list, then he can make the decision whether is that important or not. the pluses bug is hillarious though..

I reported it to Rigol, along with the measurements fail bug, as soon as I encountered it, which was the same day I received the replacement scope from them (with the Boot Version 0.0.1.3)  to replace the one I had with the Freeze Bug (Boot Version 0.0.1.2). And they reproduced the bug immediately in their own test scopes. This was several months ago, and I haven't heard anything from them since. This, by the way, is the _third_ DS1054z unit I've had. The first one I had to return to TEquipment in the first week because it had a bad glitch, hardware related, in the CH4. The second one Rigol asked me to return, because it had the Freeze Bug and they couldn't find one of their own to reproduce it. I did not ask them, they asked ME, and I insisted that they send me a replacement _before_ I would send them that one back, which they did. SO I had both scopes for about three days in order to compare them side-by-side.  This one is the one they sent me to replace that one. They sent it with SP2 firmware, but Boot Version 0.0.1.3. I decided to "update" by installing the SP3 firmware and immediately discovered the Pluses error, the miscounting error and the Measurements Fail bug. The Math error at 500 ns has been there through several firmware versions.  And just so you know... I do not deliberately look for these bugs, they have all happened during my normal use of the scope in my daily benchwork.  Sure... I actually use the scope, or try to, to do more than just make pretty colored squiggly lines while connected to a FG. My mistake? It does that much quite well after all.

If your car could only make left turns... would you consider that important or not? It might not be to some people, but if you sold it to someone without telling them... they might not be too happy. Meanwhile... people complain about the _fan noise_ in the Rigol, or the fact that they need to be careful pushing the knob-buttons,  but don't seem to care about things like the pulse miscount or the measurements stopping completely !!!    :-DD

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Offline ebastler

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2006 on: February 15, 2016, 12:30:05 am »
If your car could only make left turns... would you consider that important or not? It might not be to some people, but if you sold it to someone without telling them... they might not be too happy. Meanwhile... people complain about the _fan noise_ in the Rigol, or the fact that they need to be careful pushing the knob-buttons,  but don't seem to care about things like the pulse miscount or the measurements stopping completely !!!    :-DD

It makes perfect sense to me that some users find ergonomic shortcomings, which you are confronted with throughout every hour of using the scope, more annoying than a bug in some very specific function. To stay in your car analogy, e.g. a constant rattling noise or a rickety gear stick can be quite annoying indeed, although they do not limit the functionality of the car in any way. On the other hand, a functional problem in the AM radio may be quite acceptable to many users.

Anyway, if it makes you feel better or superior to laugh about those users, please yourself...
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2007 on: February 15, 2016, 12:51:04 am »
If your car could only make left turns... would you consider that important or not?
when you buy an DSO, do you expect it to have pulses mesurement? go buy gwInstek and hope you have those statistics, pulses etc.. 17 math functions... 20 digital and 17 analog mesurements like rigol has... i dont give a damn, but its nice to have. you car analogy is not good enough as you are talking about the core functionality (the purpose of a car is to move around right and left that its core functionality), if you want to make car analogy, it'll be suitable if its like the stickers on the car, full face vs not full face, accesories etc and whatever "bell and whistle" they have put in, a car is still a car without them, but a car that cannot turn left is not a car. so what is a DSO core functionality? its laughable when people expect a DSO to be a spectrum analyzer, remember those gwInstek fanboys? :palm:
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline hans

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2008 on: February 15, 2016, 01:03:28 am »
I don't know if this has been posted before - sorry this thread is just too big to look for it, but:
Has anyone noticed any negative voltage clamping recovery issues?

I have just. See my attachments for my findings. I reproduced this on all 4 channels on 1:10 and 1:1 probe,

Screen 1: Simple 3.3V test signal. Looks OK.
Screen 2: Same test signal, zoomed in. Looks OK. There is some slight ringing after recovery though.
Screen 3: Bandwidth limit off, just in case it matters.

So clamping for positive signals looks OK.

Now I measure a signal from an instrumentation amplifier for a power measurements. I digitize this signal with a 16-bit 500ksps ADC and it looks exactly the same as in issue 1 shot (although with less noise of course!).

Issue 1: Correct signal. All the small bumps are correct. There is no overshoot or undershoot visible on my sampled signal.
Issue 2: This is what happens when I put it on 2V/Div and the relay clicks. There is some slight overshoot again, about as worse at th 3.3V test signal one, except this at a much larger scale.
Issue 3: Some bit more at 1V/div.
Issue 4: Wow! Big overshoot at 500mV/div It even shoots through 0V.
Issue 5: 1V/div again, moved up. The overshoot seems less.
Issue 6: Looking at the pulse itself. It seems a bit bent.
Issue 7: At 2V/div and clipping it seems OK.
Issue 8: Wait.. until I move it further down.
Issue 9: and down some more, till it makes no sense again.
Issue 10: Back at 500mV - nope, overshoot is too severe to recover.

Can anyone reproduce this?
 

Online xrunner

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2009 on: February 15, 2016, 02:17:28 am »
when you buy an DSO, do you expect it to have pulses mesurement? go buy gwInstek and hope you have those statistics, pulses etc.. 17 math functions...

It doesn't make a damn bit of difference what GW Instek or Tektronix any other manufacturer has on their scopes ... Rigol has the measurement on their scope - they decided to offer it for whatever reason -  and so they need to make sure it works right. If they couldn't or can't make it work right then they shouldn't have it as an available selection.

 :-//
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Offline c4757p

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2010 on: February 15, 2016, 02:46:25 am »
I'm not sure you understand what the argument is, mecha. It's true that a measurement you don't need being poorly implemented doesn't directly affect you - as ebastler said, if the AM radio in your car doesn't work, it doesn't impact your ability to drive the car, and chances are you didn't need it anyway.

Thing is... there are actually known problems with this scope - ones that affect real people, though maybe they don't affect you - and they're spending valuable developer time implementing broken Pluses counters instead of fixing the damn thing. That really doesn't look good. Nobody's saying it makes them worthless - they're still my favorite lower-end test equipment manufacturer by a long shot, and I'm sure many people here would agree. But it's a poor use of resources, and they really should be doing better to improve what they already have.

There seems to be a general obsession among the low-end equipment manufacturers with adding stupid bells and whistles that nobody needs rather than making the central bits work well. Take for example all the $10 multimeters that have transistor testers - who the hell needs that? They compromise safety and don't even work properly, as an approximated measurement of \$\beta\$ at an arbitrary test current tells you barely more than nothing. And yet the meters are drifty and sometimes quite unsafe. On the other hand, my Fluke 87V has very few bells and whistles, it's a pretty basic meter - but what it does, it does really well.

Rigol, I love you, but come on, guys... stop sitting on your thumbs miscounting pluses and start taking care of your stuff. I love my 1054Z, but I could love it more, y'know... ^-^

Also, Rigol, it'd be great if you could respond again! Any idea what's going on with this bloody thing? Any ETA on a fix?
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Offline Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2011 on: February 15, 2016, 03:44:06 am »
If your car could only make left turns... would you consider that important or not?

Yes, but it's not that at all. It's not "turning left", at best it's something like "the rear ashtray doesn't close properly".

These are functions that I've never used after over a year of ownership. I will probably never use them so I simply don't care.

If I wanted to improve things, that's not what I'd be looking at.

Your constant repeating of these minor details in every thread as "major bugs" is boring.
 

Offline pickle9000

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2012 on: February 15, 2016, 05:41:48 am »
A manufacturers bug list is a product feature, not a failure. No bit of gear is fault free in design hardware or software. A documented list is necessary.

Chinese manufacturers can do a decent job if they try. Hantek is not bad http://www.hantek.org/asken/. Rigol could be more open with this stuff. I'm not endorsing Hantek but I like this open approach.

This would make a good subject for a future blog. Both in terms of selecting a bit of gear (for a particular application) and making correct measurements with what you have. Are you watching Dave?
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2013 on: February 15, 2016, 06:32:10 pm »
Total long shot here. I think it is safe to assume the DS1054Z has some sort of recovery mode in the bootloader to recover from a failed flash.
I don't think it's safe to assume anything about software from a company that lets stuff like this get through:

Apparently you can load firmware during boot by pressing the 'help' key:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-firmware-downgrade-*is*-possible-and-here-is-how/

 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2014 on: February 15, 2016, 09:55:04 pm »
Total long shot here. I think it is safe to assume the DS1054Z has some sort of recovery mode in the bootloader to recover from a failed flash.
I don't think it's safe to assume anything about software from a company that lets stuff like this get through:

Apparently you can load firmware during boot by pressing the 'help' key:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-firmware-downgrade-*is*-possible-and-here-is-how/

Look again. It's only  possible if you have some really really early version of the Boot Version.

Quote
These are functions that I've never used after over a year of ownership. I will probably never use them so I simply don't care.
:-DD
Your failure to use, or care about,  features of your equipment that are supposed to work _as advertised_ isn't boring... it's hilarious.

Hey... I don't care if there are typos in the Chinese menus... because I don't speak read or write Chinese. How boring is that?
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Online xrunner

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2015 on: February 16, 2016, 12:26:24 am »
Hey... I don't care if there are typos in the Chinese menus... because I don't speak read or write Chinese. How boring is that?

I'll give you a Pulse 1 for that statement!  ;)
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Offline jtbili

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2016 on: February 22, 2016, 11:11:11 pm »
This new 50MHz version of the 4-channel DS1000Z series scopes is being discussed in several threads, particularly this one. However, the price/performance is so outstanding that it surely deserves its own.

A 4 channel, 12 Mpts memory, 30 000 waveforms/second, intensity graded scope of this quality for around 399 USD/299 EUR/235 GBP (plus tax) is nothing short of astounding, even before the hacking possibilities are considered.

Dave has announced that he is getting one, so hopefully we can look forward to a review in the not too distant future, and - unless he finds any unexpected gotchas - a new default recommendation for entry level scopes.

Due to the ever-growing length of this thread, I have added an FAQ section about the scope:
(Additions/corrections welcome - send me a PM)

The scope (and some other Rigol models) originally had some issues relating to excessive jitter which were corrected by a firmware update to SW version 00.04.02.SP4 in December 2014. Subsequently shipped scopes are likely to have been fixed already.  A link to the update was posted on the forum by Rigol and can be found here. This currently links to a newer SW version (04.03) which also fixes some other minor bugs.

The oscilloscope does not have a real time clock, and therefore cannot add the current time and date to saved screenshots and other data. A number of trial options are initially enabled which will expire after 35 hours runtime (not 35 hours since first use).

A 'hack' is available to enable 100MHz bandwidth and all of the trial features which after expiring are normally only available at additional cost. Users considering this should be aware that it is not approved by Rigol and may void the warranty. A website featuring the code generator to enable the features can be found at http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/. Do not use the DSFR code suggested on the website. Codes for 500uV vertical resolution are intended for oscilloscopes such as the DS2000A series which have the necessary hardware for this feature. The code DSER enables all features except 500uV, which is not supported on the DS1000Z series and will cause erroneous results at this setting.

The US vendor TEquipment offers a discount on this oscilloscope and other products to EEVBlog members. This is available if you mention the offer when ordering. You can also use a discount code, but TEquipment have requested that it not be reproduced on the forum. There is a forum topic where the code can be requested from other members here.

Some of the RP2200 probes supplied with the scope have been found to have intermittent contacts when switched to the 1X setting. A fix for this issue is described here.

Dave has a number of blogs featuring this scope and its siblings:

A first look: EEVBlog 522
Teardown: EEVBlog 674
Reverse engineering: EEVBlog 675
Jitter problems: EEVBlog 683
Jitter fix:  EEVBlog 699
Summary review:  EEVBlog 703
Features review:  EEVBlog 704
Probe performance:  EEVBlog 707
(There is apparently also a performance testing review which has not yet been released.)

Hi all,

I am trying to find the link to FAQ for DS1054Z. Any plans for it?


jtbili
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2017 on: February 22, 2016, 11:43:08 pm »
Hi all,

I am trying to find the link to FAQ for DS1054Z. Any plans for it?

jtbili

You have already seen the FAQ section for this thread - it is the information following the red text in the message you quoted.

It was not present in the original post and is updated from time to time.
 

Offline jtbili

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2018 on: February 24, 2016, 07:48:11 pm »
I have checked the simplified way to reverse options changes. Actions are as follows:

Connect scope to laptop using ethernet cable, configure it automatically and check the IP of the scope from LXI LAN setting window.

Run PuTTytel.exe freeware with scope IP and 5555 port.

In the telnet window execute *IDN? command for verification and run reversing command.

PuTTYtel is a Telnet-only client and does not require installation. Checked with Win7 and Win8.

jtbili
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 07:55:12 pm by jtbili »
 

Offline Karel

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2019 on: February 24, 2016, 09:23:16 pm »
No need to use putty. Just enter the following command in the console:

telnet <ip-address> 5555

Checked on Linux.
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the difference between theory and practice in practice.
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Offline jtbili

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2020 on: February 24, 2016, 10:50:49 pm »
No need to use putty. Just enter the following command in the console:

telnet <ip-address> 5555

Checked on Linux.

Right, it works perfect in Linux. But in my company laptop I have win only, no chance for changing or adding new system.
I had to find quick, easy and simple solution. Telnet in Win7, 8 had problems with connection, puTTYtel - never.

jtbili
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2021 on: February 25, 2016, 12:40:22 am »
The DS1054Z supports telnet?

That's pretty cool...  :popcorn:
 

Offline Fennec

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2022 on: February 25, 2016, 08:37:02 am »
Right, it works perfect in Linux. But in my company laptop I have win only, no chance for changing or adding new system.
I had to find quick, easy and simple solution. Telnet in Win7, 8 had problems with connection, puTTYtel - never.

Windows sucks, sry.  But Putty is a very useful program on all platforms like Win, Linux n mac, I like that.
If u need a Linux system, I work on Linux n MAC OSX only, make an USB live stick.  The call sign on Linux is  "Pinguy Builder". So you can easy make your own LIVE Drive. Google it.
Same as 'remaster' on Windows, but on Windows it has removed years ago.
Or download an Ubuntu (Kiddie Linux) live version on an USB drive. So u have always your 'Backup drive' in your pocket.

btw, anybody knows whats up with RIGOL ? Did they work on an update /for the bootloader / firmware, or should I send back my scope ? My warranty expires in 4 months.


 

Offline ftonello

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2023 on: February 25, 2016, 09:35:31 am »
Hi All,
Is it possible do external trigger with this 4 ch rigol?
I read some posts, and one said that is possible use the trigger out  with a BNC and pump to channel 1...
As i´m new to oscilloscopes, and planning to buy one of these RIGOL DS1054Z.
Is it really important have a external trigger to a hobby use?

Tks

Flávio.

Brazil.
Hi from Brazil!!!
 

Offline Karel

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2024 on: February 25, 2016, 06:29:34 pm »
Is it possible do external trigger with this 4 ch rigol?

It does not have a dedicated external trigger input.
You can ofcourse use one of the four inputchannels as a trigger input.
In that case you have three channels left.
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 


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