New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[pascal_sweden]

It could be very well related to the firmware. See my other posting!

[Fungus]

People are busy working on the firmware files in another thread.

One thing they could try is hacking the version number in old GEL files so the 'scope thinks its newer.

This would let you install old versions.

[Assafl]

While I like the idea of the fullscreen x-y display, I'd still like to know if some of the other bugs have been fixed before I update my firmware. The one I'm most interested in is the Measurements Fail bug that causes _all_ measurements to stop updating after a random time interval when Math is in use.

I tried to recreate the bug and stopped the test when the cnt. was over 37k (needed the scope for something else). Had 4 measurements (with statistics), 4 channels on as well as math doing AxB.

Sorry I couldn't recreate it.

[hammy]

I updated the MSO1074z with the new Firmware version 00.04.04.00.07.
No problems whatsoever. 

Cheers
hammy

[Fungus]

While I like the idea of the fullscreen x-y display, I'd still like to know if some of the other bugs have been fixed before I update my firmware. The one I'm most interested in is the Measurements Fail bug that causes _all_ measurements to stop updating after a random time interval when Math is in use.

I tried to recreate the bug and stopped the test when the cnt. was over 37k (needed the scope for something else). Had 4 measurements (with statistics), 4 channels on as well as math doing AxB.

Did your 'scope freeze before?

Not all 'scopes have this problem (mine don't).

Is there anybody out there who has the 'freezing' bug who's tried the new firmware?

[Assafl]

No - didn't try it prior to the upgrade. I rarely do 4 measurements when 4 channels are on. Let alone with math.

But when I read about the bug it intrigued me but I fell short of being able to reproduce it.

[Fungus]

No - didn't try it prior to the upgrade. I rarely do 4 measurements when 4 channels are on. Let alone with math.

But when I read about the bug it intrigued me but I fell short of being able to reproduce it.

I wonder where all the Rigol-bashers went to . They're surprisingly absent in the last few days. 

[JPortici]

Is there anybody out there who has the 'freezing' bug who's tried the new firmware?

No and i don't really intend to for a lot of time. If something can be understood from the chinglish in the changelog nothing of substance was fixed or even addressed.

To be frank i stopped caring when i read that they didn't even fix the Pluses. I'll keep it until i will have the funds for a GWI-2000A/E (or the newest siglent 2 chan mso) then sell the 1054 for some penny and move on.

[tautech]

I wonder where all the Rigol-bashers went to . They're surprisingly absent in the last few days. 

They're all waiting to see if the new FW is ay good. 

[Assafl]

One has to read forums carefully (just like review sites). I, for one, cannot fault owners that run into bugs (albeit I will state that everything I ever owned had bugs and workarounds). Also, I cannot take seriously the opinions of non owners - be it hearsay or wishful thinking.

For me - as a household scope the Rigol is really nice.

It is not the epitome of efficiency - taking 30 secs to save a JPG is indeed annoying, as is the tendency of the LXI to get stuck sometimes (requiring a reboot) - but as a home scope for a hobby it is really really nice.

It is light years ahead of the Fluke Scopemeter I also have with the exception that I will not probe an air conditioner inverter with the Rigol or a mains based motor speed control. But since the Rigol I stopped using the fluke for anything other than power.

[Assafl]

To be frank i stopped caring when i read that they didn't even fix the Pluses. I'll keep it until i will have the funds for a GWI-2000A/E (or the newest siglent 2 chan mso) then sell the 1054 for some penny and move on.

Hopefully the 2000A/E will satisfy you.

I'll admit to being a wee bit perplexed: It is very postmodern to replace a scope because of spelling and then on top of that with another chinglish scope.

Admittedly In the old days US (or British) made scopes would not generally have spelling issues. Aren't those days long gone?

[JPortici]

I hope you understand that i see the failure to solve the most basic thing after many months as a sign of them really not giving two shits

[Assafl]

I hope you understand that i see the failure to solve the most basic thing after many months as a sign of them really not giving two shits

You are applying American standards to people who can't spell or talk in English. Having spent 15 years in the states and 30 in Israel managing product development I can attest just how hard it is to convince Israelis (and Vietnamese and Chinese) of the importance of good spelling and grammar.

It is not that they don't give a s*** - it is a disposition of the developer which may think they have resolved it and needs someone to hand walk them to where the error occurs (and for them it looks okay even after you point it to them - remember a spellchecker will not help them here). Also - as engineers, this being considered as less important to the measurement / operational bugs (or at least less interesting to fix).

For some reason, Germans and most Japanese teams understand this point. Not sure why.

[JPortici]

Yes. I'll try to explain why i feel this way.
Aside for a love of languages, the pluses bug came only with the beforelast update.. god knows why.

It was reported with many other things by many people and yet it was not addressed... something as simple as editing the english localization text file. If they can't be trusted with such a task how can i trust them to fix more serious bugs?

[pascal_sweden]

As I wondered before ... where is Rigol America on this forum?

Is nobody from Rigol America following up overall quality processes?

[technogeeky]

To me, the pulses/pluses update is nearly meaningless. I know what they mean. I don't use an oscilloscope for a language lesson. I want measurements.

So the phantom CH2-4 Vrms bug is the kind of thing that irks me. I don't have enough money or accurate enough secondary equipment to know if some values are wrong, or have high statistical (or in this case, systematic) error. I mean, I know that there shouldn't be a reading without a probe in, but once you get into the realm of plausibility, I will have to accept the results the scope gives me.

I am hopeful that this community will make progress unpacking/decoding the firmware and we'll being to take more control over it ourselves.

[Meka77 wd]

Hi everyone. Sorry for copy/paste...

For future reference:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-firmware-downgrade-*is*-possible-and-here-is-how/

As seen on above discussion reply #23 there is nothing bad happening when firmware ver. upgraded or downgraded.

But there is a catch... bootloader version!!!

Why they blocked firmware downgrade from later ver. bootloaders is beyond my imagination.

Again, i think most important! feature for this kind of devices is ability to freely upgrade or downgrade firmware or bootloader revisions.

This scope is unreliable and very frustrating to use for me since 4.3.2.3 ver. firmware.

And RMS bug is not that simple...



Please if you did not watch it before , take a closer look

It affects FTT, other channels RMS measurements, Auto Cursor Quick Trace, scope performance and many other shit i am not aware of. I think there is some kind of constant background calculation or error correction scheme going on and because of it scope very slow, intensity grading performance  degraded (to me anyway).

Sorry for my bad english...

[pascal_sweden]

With all respect, but why did you not put any audio on the YouTube video?

This must be the first and only muted video on the entire YouTube video database besides some old Laurel & Hardy movies. Hope that gives you an idea about the popularity of your YouTube video.

[MarkF]

This scope is unreliable and very frustrating to use for me since 4.3.2.3 ver. firmware.

And RMS bug is not that simple...



Please if you did not watch it before , take a closer look

Again, this video shows the Vrms problem in the latest firmware CONFUSED by a boy who has NO IDEA how to operate his scope!!!  He is using regular coax cable but keeps changing the Probe setting from the 1X setting it should be.

[MT]

Now all my faith is in the custom hacked firmware

What?!?! is there a custom hacked firmware for 1054Z?!.. Where?

[bitseeker]

Still hacking. Not completely hacked, yet. You can follow along in this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsxxxx-gel-firmware-file-format/

They're making great progress. So far, you can change the boot screen image, the logo in the upper-left during run time, and the firmware version number.

[Meka77 wd]

Again, this video shows the Vrms problem in the latest firmware CONFUSED by a boy who has NO IDEA how to operate his scope!!!  He is using regular coax cable but keeps changing the Probe setting from the 1X setting it should be.

Can't you see youtube annotations/subtitles?...
If you cannot, please try watch my video directly on youtube or try palemoon browser (harmless firefox custom browser). And please check on youtube settings annotations on.

First, they are not bnc cables, they are 1x/10x 250Mhz probes.

And RMS issue is something like:

Say you made an amplifier ie. 100x gain and want to measure input vs. output RMS value with rough distortion check with rigols shitty FFT.

If you use single channel for only RMS measurement everything is fine, but FFT level is wrong because it's also showing RMS level! (again can't you see youtube annotations?).

Then you want to see RMS values, input on ch1 and output on ch2 (ie. ch1 probe set  1x and ch2 set 10x).

This leaked RMS error voltage seen on ch2 (even input grounded!!! or nothing connected!!!) = ch1's leaked value + someshit x ch2 probe compensation settings (regardless input on ch2).

like ch1 (at 1x) RMS =1V, ch2 (at 10x) RMS leaked let's say =10.5V (patience there is nothing connected on ch2 yet and flat line on screen ), when our imaginary amp output is connected on ch2 now RMS =110.5V!!!

If you are using 100x probe on ch2 error leaked value you gonna see is 100x!!!

Let's set some cursor on ch2 RMS value, cursor/settings/auto/quick2, even nothing connected cursor jumps over on ch1's  signal and horizontal settings affect this cursor position.

Sorry it is not finished yet... If you dare to open other channels same time for RMS measurement, oh boy .

For clear the things i am not accusing anyone, i like very much rigol devices (i have ds5022m,ds1052e,ds1054z,ds2000a and wens 820 portable scope), i am not after precision or accuracy with 8bit adc, what i am saying is this device under warranty and our local rigol dealer does not give a sht. besides something very bad happened at rigol software side since last year. Becasue they are not that bad in my opinion, and i'm wondering what happened their support and development line.

Last, i know how to use a scope markF....

No hard feelings, i wish you well and sorry for long post with my crappy english.

 

[Fungus]

So the phantom CH2-4 Vrms bug is the kind of thing that irks me. ...  I mean, I know that there shouldn't be a reading without a probe in...

Not true. There can be all sorts of radio noise around.

So long as the reading on a connected channel is OK then I say it's nothing to worry about. The DS1000Z doesn't have connectors that can detect whether or not a probe is connected. Just switch those channels off, problem solved.

[alsetalokin4017]

Would you at least concede that two channels connected to the exact same signal should report the same RMS value for that signal?

Both CH1 and CH2 connected to the probe calibrator output:

[tautech]

Would you at least concede that two channels connected to the exact same signal should report the same RMS value for that signal?

Both CH1 and CH2 connected to the probe calibrator output:

What happens when you swap the trigger to the other channel?