Author Topic: New Rigol DS7000  (Read 8089 times)

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Offline extronic

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New Rigol DS7000
« on: June 05, 2018, 04:35:39 pm »
Have you seen?

http://www.rigol.com/File/TechDoc/20180515/MSO7000&DS7000_QuickGuide_EN&CN.pdf
http://www.rigol.com/File/TechDoc/20180515/MSO7000&DS7000_DataSheet_CN.pdf only Chinese, but have a look on photos and tables

Quick spec:
  • 100-500MHz bandwidth
  • 10" multipoint touch screen
  • 10GSa/s ADC
  • refresh rate 600 000 waveforms per sec
  • memory for 450 000 waveforms
  • HDMI for extrernal display
  • 2 channel waveform generator
  • 16 channel logic analyzer
  • RS232/UART, I2C, SPI, CAN, LIN, I2S, FlexRay, MIL-STD-1553 decoding

Wonder if it's hackable :D :D :D
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 04:44:52 pm by extronic »
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Online Daruosha

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2018, 06:29:53 pm »
I wonder who designes their new line of products. Just look at the "quick" button  :palm:
 Is it a toy with matching shaped buttons or a serious tool?

However spec sheet looks interesting.
 

Offline Pinkus

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2018, 08:04:01 pm »
Yes, the Rigol designer did create some quite 'special' designs in the past year.
I have no idea, what they intend. Probably something like "oh, this button with the cutout at the top right corner has already been used 5 times now. This is boring, lets now use one with a cutout on the lower left area..... and then some with a missing top left corner ..... and now lets use one rotated by 90° to show that we are progressive".
And these strange moving lines to group buttons - yuck.
Probably the user shall call him lucky that they do not use blinking RGB LEDs all over the unit.
If you look closely at the screenshot you can see that this 'design' is also been used in the software itself.
User friendly is defined differently..... I am so glad that I can use my boring Keysight DSOX4000 series scope.

Anyway, here the datasheet is available in English: http://emin.vn/media/uploads/mso7000.pdf

Edit: I added a picture where I noted some of the thoughts the Rigol designer might had during the design.
.... and a website with a (useless) video and two pictures of the PCB of the DS7000 scope: http://www.rigol.com/DS7000/DS7000.HTML
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 08:49:20 pm by Pinkus »
 
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Online bugi

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2018, 08:08:22 pm »
Actually usability is a good reason to have some different shape/size buttons, some different grouping lines etc.  But, that scope design might not be a good example on how to use them :P
 
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Online nrxnrx

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2018, 08:33:56 pm »
Found a site with prices. Never heard of them, but here they are:

https://www.yoycart.xxxxx/Product/570032364221/ (replace "xxxxx" with "com")

$3572.23 - DS7014 (100MHz 4-channel 10GSa s)
$5759.01 - DS7024 (200MHz 4-channel 10GSa s)
$12944.13 - DS7034 (350MHz 4-channel 10GSa s)
$16737.52 - DS7054 (500MHz 4-channel 10GSa s)
$5580.50 - MSO7014 (100M 4 16-channel Logic 10G)
$7811.90 - MSO7024 (200M 4 16-channel Logic 10G)
$14506.12 - MSO7034 (350M 4 16-channel Logic 10G)
$18968.93 - MSO7054 (500M 4 16-channel Logic 10G)


Edit: The prices above are wrong (or not in USD). See below: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds7000/msg1603999/#msg1603999
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 04:59:33 am by nrxnrx »
 

Offline extronic

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2018, 09:26:53 pm »
OMG  :o I can buy Rohde&Schwarz RTB2004 with all options for 3600 EUR.
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Offline Pinkus

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2018, 09:42:24 pm »
OMG  :o I can buy Rohde&Schwarz RTB2004 with all options for 3600 EUR.
Yes, but the RTB2004 is pretty limited in many aspects. This DS7000 scope should probably be compared to the RTM3000 series.
Also: 3600 Euro = $4200, thus no big difference (though nobody know what the Rigol options will cost), but the RTB2004 will offer much less than the DS7000 for the money.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 10:55:18 pm by Pinkus »
 

Offline extronic

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2018, 09:57:07 pm »
OMG  :o I can buy Rohde&Schwarz RTB2004 with all options for 3600 EUR.
Yes, but the RTB2004 is pretty limited in many aspects. This DS7000 scope should probably be compared to the RTB3000 series.
Also: 3600 Euro = $4200, thus no big difference (though nobody know what the Rigol options will cost), but the RTB2004 will offer much less than the DS7000 for the money.
What exactly do you mean with "much less"?
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Online 2N3055

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2018, 10:20:27 pm »
https://gsmserver.com.ua/nfs/product/876444/file/MSODS7000.pdf

Interesting details..


@extronic  much less in every aspect... read the info..

We'll see how mature it will be at release... But in theory, very interesting...

 

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2018, 10:33:37 pm »
If the prices are right then it is very expensive. Especially for a Rigol. The R&S RTM3000 is a better candidate to compare against (but the RTM3000 has 10bit ADCs, 1GHz and a higher resolution screen for the same price). The Rigol presentation never mentions the number of ADC bits. Also the 10Gs/s is a bit misleading. With 4 channels you have 2.5Gs/s.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline lem_ix

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2018, 11:50:35 pm »
Looks like a ds4000 replacement, hopefully with more polish this time. If any of the Chinese manufacturers are going to have a chance of fighting in the pro market they're going to have to offer superb quality. Why would anyone risk ordering one for work instead of the well established brands, regardless of value.
 

Offline darkstar49

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2018, 12:28:33 am »


'wondering why 10GS/s (per channel, as per the data sheet...) for 500Mhz max ?????

or they'll show up with higher bandwidth models later on...  but anyway, if the mentioned prices are correct, 19K for a 500Mhz MSO sounds pretty ridiculous... one could probably get a Keysight S-Series, R&S RTO or many other higher-end scope for that money...   
 

Offline Tommmy

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2018, 01:18:14 am »
Hi, played with it at Hamradio Friedrichshafen last Weekend. (only DS7054)
It feels like the MSO4024 which i have at work only better, thanks to the touch screen.
The Exhibitors says it's 7XXX€ for MSO7054 without any Options.
I added Scans from the flyer.
You can now use 4 decoders at the same time. (who needs 4 at the same time :wtf: )
 
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Offline Pinkus

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2018, 02:30:24 am »
You can now use 4 decoders at the same time. (who needs 4 at the same time :wtf: )
4 is really pretty much. Seldom I use three at one time, usually I need only one or two.
Even better: at Rigol this means bi-directional decoder, not this Rohde&Schwarz bullsh*t where (RTB2004) each direction uses one of the two available decoder (thus Rx and Tx: no decoder left - or: MOSI and MISO: no decoder left).
As Rigol counts one decoder always as a bi-directional decoder,  for R&S (in their counting scheme), this would mean the DS7000 does come with 8 decoder!
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2018, 05:40:29 am »
Actually usability is a good reason to have some different shape/size buttons, some different grouping lines etc.  But, that scope design might not be a good example on how to use them :P

If that "Quick" button is designed to be used with the thumb then it looks fine to me.



Cute, but it's not as if you need to read the text on that button more than, like, twice in your entire life.

If that button is there instead of pushing the multifunction knob then you'll be praising deity when you actually have to use this 'scope.

(and if not, then  :palm: :palm: :palm: Rigol)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 05:42:19 am by Fungus »
 

Online DaJMasta

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2018, 06:06:26 am »
Specs look promising... but it's really too bad it's only an 8 bit converter.  If they could have gotten to 10 bits or so that really would be high end scope specs.  I guess with so much sampling rate, you can probably get an effective 10 or 11 bits even on a 500MHz signal, but still, if the bandwidth cap is 500MHz, I'd certainly prefer more bits out of the ADCs over higher sample rate.

Offline ch_scr

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2018, 06:25:53 am »
It looks to me like the real news is Rigol is announcing its series of ASICs called "Ultravision II" Family. Seems to consist of differential probe, frontend, ADC and clock / processing ASIC. The presentation shows they really don't need a lot of expensive periphery, except the RAM and some nondescript dual core application processor. So a lot more of the customer money gets into their pocket, less of the money gets into the pockets of FPGA, ADC, frontend, clock IC makers. I would say it is big news for Rigol and we will see a whole family of new devices based on this, being released in the expensive to cheap order. I also would say this marks a milestone in the growth of Rigol and shows they really think big and have deep pockets, developing all these ASICs at once. Also note they develop ASICs for what is scope specific (=expensive) and leave out the mass market stuff (RAM, AP).
Edit: typo
 

Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2018, 06:51:42 am »
I would say it is big news for Rigol and we will see a whole family of new devices based on this, being released in the expensive to cheap order.
I tend to agree. Which was the last new Rigol scope Dave has showed / tore down? It wouldn't surprise me if it is the DS1054Z from a few years ago.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online maginnovision

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2018, 07:00:26 am »
Specs look promising... but it's really too bad it's only an 8 bit converter.  If they could have gotten to 10 bits or so that really would be high end scope specs.  I guess with so much sampling rate, you can probably get an effective 10 or 11 bits even on a 500MHz signal, but still, if the bandwidth cap is 500MHz, I'd certainly prefer more bits out of the ADCs over higher sample rate.

They couldn't drop the sample rate much since it halves for 2, and 4 channels. So at 4 it's just 2.5gs/s.
 

Online DaJMasta

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2018, 08:32:43 am »
They couldn't drop the sample rate much since it halves for 2, and 4 channels. So at 4 it's just 2.5gs/s.

Oof, yeah I see that now.  I suppose it's probably a single asic scope, then?  I assume that means we'll likely see a higher end variant with a pair of asics with a couple years time at the new top end... though at the pricepoint of these, would having two asics in one scope so they could manage 5Gs/s on 4 channels even be competitive with stuff at the 20k+ pricepoint they'd likely be at?  I guess that's all conjecture, but maybe there's a different version of the same core/chip that will come into a new higher end version - I assume there will be cut down derivatives of this on the lower end, in time, too.

Offline darkstar49

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2018, 11:58:01 pm »

On page 6 (section1), they mention "up to 10GS/s real-time sample rate per channel"

But from the rest of the data sheet, pretty unclear...
 

Offline imo

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2018, 04:40:06 am »
Quote
"up to 10GS/s real-time sample rate per channel"
Marketing people are using such a wording to say 10GS/s with single channel only. They would not write "up to" in case of 4x10GS/s, they would write "10GS/s real-time per channel" :)
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 04:41:38 am by imo »
 

Offline EmonaSATom

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2018, 03:21:22 pm »
Hi Guys,

Tom here from Emona Instruments in South Australia

You may be aware that we are the Australian and New Zealand distributor for Rigol with head office in Sydney.

We are currently working on pricing and information for the new 7000 series, should be on our website soon.

EDIT 20-06-18: pricing is here http://www.emona.com.au/ds7000/
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 10:56:55 am by EmonaSATom »
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2018, 09:09:37 pm »
here is the exact spec:
10 GSa/s (single-channel), 5 GSa/s (dual-channel), 2.5 GSa/s (four-channel)

memory analog channels:
- standard
100 Mpts (single-channel), 50 Mpts (dual-channel), 25 Mpts (four-channel)
- with option 250Mpts
250 Mpts (single-channel), 125 Mpts (dual-channel), 50 Mpts (four-channel)
- with option 500Mpts
500 Mpts (single-channel), 250 Mpts (dual-channel), 125 Mpts (four-channel)

memory digital channels 62.5Mpts

European public launch date (with prices) June the 12th

All models with pricing, data sheet, user manuale etc. will be active on June the 12th at 00.01

More info, just ask, bye ;)
Technical Support
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2018, 02:27:39 am »
The automatic measurements have a bloody small font again as in DS2000. That is bad.
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Offline Gallymimus

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2018, 03:44:18 am »
Found a site with prices. Never heard of them, but here they are:

https://www.yoycart.xxxxx/Product/570032364221/ (replace "xxxxx" with "com")

$3572.23 - DS7014 (100MHz 4-channel 10GSa s)
$5759.01 - DS7024 (200MHz 4-channel 10GSa s)
$12944.13 - DS7034 (350MHz 4-channel 10GSa s)
$16737.52 - DS7054 (500MHz 4-channel 10GSa s)
$5580.50 - MSO7014 (100M 4 16-channel Logic 10G)
$7811.90 - MSO7024 (200M 4 16-channel Logic 10G)
$14506.12 - MSO7034 (350M 4 16-channel Logic 10G)
$18968.93 - MSO7054 (500M 4 16-channel Logic 10G)

Wow those prices are MUCH higher than the ones listed on Rigol's own website:

DS7014   100 MHz   4      NA   500 Mpts   600,000 wfms/s   $2,699   
DS7024   200 MHz   4      NA   500 Mpts   600,000 wfms/s   $3,699   
DS7034   350 MHz   4      NA   500 Mpts   600,000 wfms/s   $6,999   
DS7054   500 MHz   4      NA   500 Mpts   600,000 wfms/s   $9,999   
MSO7014   100 MHz   4   16   NA   500 Mpts   600,000 wfms/s   $3,999   
MSO7024   200 MHz   4   16   NA   500 Mpts   600,000 wfms/s   $4,999   
MSO7034   350 MHz   4   16   NA   500 Mpts   600,000 wfms/s   $8,299   
MSO7054   500 MHz   4   16   NA   500 Mpts   600,000 wfms/s   $11,299   
 

Online nrxnrx

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2018, 04:55:33 am »
Thanks! I updated my post to point to yours.
 

Offline etl17

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2018, 04:59:55 am »
I wonder if the 100MHz models can be hacked to become 500MHz. Since all models have the same sample rate, it's quite possible that they also have the same front end. However, I wonder if the 10Gs sample rate is enough to compete with the R&S 16bit DACs. What do you guys think?
 

Offline extronic

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2018, 05:09:28 am »
New info on Rigol's website, price, specs and some videos
https://www.rigol.eu/products/digital-oscilloscopes/7000/

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Offline jjoonathan

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2018, 05:24:37 am »
> Options
> Bandwidth Upgrade
> DS7000-BW1T5
> 7000 Series Bandwidth upgrades from 100 MHz to 500 MHz

 :popcorn:
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2018, 07:30:33 am »
Wow, there is search and navigation.
Amazing machines. http://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2018, 03:20:29 am »
The prices seem to be pretty much on par with the R&S RTM3000 if you go for a similar configuration. I don't think the 500Mpts memory depth option is included in the prices listed a few postings back.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online maginnovision

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2018, 03:35:10 am »
Yea, I try not to be a snob but if the price between rigol and rtm3000 are similar I'd never consider the rigol. Unless reviews show it is actually a pretty good scope.
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2018, 05:06:10 am »
On the low end there's a pretty big difference: $2600 vs $4200. Also, the rigol has zone trigger and 10x the wfm/s -- but the R&S has 10bit.
 

Online DaJMasta

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2018, 08:02:38 am »
Yea, I try not to be a snob but if the price between rigol and rtm3000 are similar I'd never consider the rigol. Unless reviews show it is actually a pretty good scope.

Hopefully Dave and/or Shahriar will get their hands on one soon, if it can at least keep up, maybe it will even drive the price of the segment down.

Offline bozidarms

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2018, 11:03:53 pm »
Rigol has one very useful function, namely Histogram!
By R&S one can find Histogram first in RTA series (unreasonable costly).
 

Offline RigolTechUSA

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2018, 02:22:31 am »
Thanks for all the interest on the new scopes. We have been working hard on video content that describes all of the new features in the 7000 Series. We have put together a set of landing pages with that content as well as some videos showing head to head differences between the Rigol 7000 and some competitive scopes. I wanted to share this link for those looking for more information:

https://www.rigolna.com/DS7000

Now that the product is released we are happy to answer any questions.

RIGOL USA Office:
www.rigolna.com
info@rigol.com
877-474-4651
 

Offline tequipment

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2018, 02:54:01 am »
Here is the link to https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS7014/Digital-Oscilloscopes/
and https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/MSO7014/Mixed-Signal-Oscilloscopes-(MSO)/

You can easily see the full series with prices.

We think this scope will be a winner.  We are offering 60 days return rights plus our eevblog discount on the units.

Best Regards,
Evan Cirelli

Vice President and Co-Founder
TEquipment.NET
 

Online maginnovision

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2018, 03:35:45 am »
Yea, I try not to be a snob but if the price between rigol and rtm3000 are similar I'd never consider the rigol. Unless reviews show it is actually a pretty good scope.

Hopefully Dave and/or Shahriar will get their hands on one soon, if it can at least keep up, maybe it will even drive the price of the segment down.

Yea, it has some really interesting things going on. Decodes are ~2k(or 900 if you need 1) and mem is ~1.4k. It feels like it's in a weird place max BW being 500mhz but everything else comparable to the "standard" 3000 series scopes, including price. For me the LA specs are a little disappointing for the price.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2018, 03:52:53 am »
We think this scope will be a winner.
Then why do you have such a small amount in stock?  >:D
I visit quite a few companies and so far I've only seen A-brand oscilloscopes in this price bracket. If Rigol wants to have any chance to make a name for themselves and compete then the firmware has to work 100% from day one. I just did a price comparison and the pricing on the DS7000 series is pretty much on par with similar instruments from A brands. There is very little room for justifying a make-do scope with partly working firmware in a professional environment where time equals money. I'm sure people will say I'm too negative but let's be real: Rigol doesn't have a very good track record and fixing firmware on their higher end models has taken long in the past. I'm looking forward to some in-depth tests which go deeper than twiddling some knobs to see what is what.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 04:57:20 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline max-bit

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2018, 06:06:20 pm »
When reviewing on eevblog :) ?
Of course and teardown ....
 

Offline imo

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2018, 07:21:56 pm »
An oscilloscope in that price level is a "long term investment" for most users. Imagine year 2025 and an 8bit oscope sitting on your workbench..  Also probably no beefy sells without several independent in-depth reviews with teardowns..
PS: My bet the Rigol's bosses have started already to think on whether they do not miss a historical opportunity to become the clear winners by introducing the 70xx with 10bits instead of 8..
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 11:48:37 pm by imo »
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2018, 12:17:03 am »
I took a quick look at one web shop and if we compare similarly equipped RTM3004  and DS7014 (base scope + bundle)  RTM3004 is 6290€ (no VAT) and DS7014 is 3799€ (no VAT).  In that config RTM will have AWG and ARINC 429 protocol and Rigol won't.

If you compare similarly configured RTM3004 MSO and MSO7014, RTM is 7640€ (no VAT) and MSO7014 is 4799€ (no VAT). Rigol will have two channel AWG , and RTM will have ARINC 429 and spectrogram mode.

So if Rigol will not be buggy, prices are quite better for similar capabilities..  And Rigol does have 600K Wfms/for those that care about that.  It has 1Mpoint FFT, and histogram measurements.

That is for 100MHz base model. As BW goes up, there is less difference though..

It remains to be seen how DS/MSO7000 series looks in real life..

 

Online 2N3055

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2018, 12:20:46 am »
An oscilloscope in that price level is a "long term investment" for most users. Imagine year 2025 and an 8bit oscope sitting on your workbench..

For general purpose work, 8 bit is just fine.. For power analysis, I would go with 12 Bit or more anyways ......
 

Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2018, 02:42:50 am »
I took a quick look at one web shop and if we compare similarly equipped RTM3004  and DS7014 (base scope + bundle)  RTM3004 is 6290€ (no VAT) and DS7014 is 3799€ (no VAT).  In that config RTM will have AWG and ARINC 429 protocol and Rigol won't.

If you compare similarly configured RTM3004 MSO and MSO7014, RTM is 7640€ (no VAT) and MSO7014 is 4799€ (no VAT). Rigol will have two channel AWG , and RTM will have ARINC 429 and spectrogram mode.
True but in the region up to 200MHz there are many cheaper alternatives.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2018, 03:06:27 am »
I took a quick look at one web shop and if we compare similarly equipped RTM3004  and DS7014 (base scope + bundle)  RTM3004 is 6290€ (no VAT) and DS7014 is 3799€ (no VAT).  In that config RTM will have AWG and ARINC 429 protocol and Rigol won't.

If you compare similarly configured RTM3004 MSO and MSO7014, RTM is 7640€ (no VAT) and MSO7014 is 4799€ (no VAT). Rigol will have two channel AWG , and RTM will have ARINC 429 and spectrogram mode.
True but in the region up to 200MHz there are many cheaper alternatives.

That is true...
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2018, 06:17:18 pm »
When reviewing on eevblog :) ?
Of course and teardown ....

I have not been contacted by Rigol
 

Offline EmonaSATom

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2018, 11:03:51 am »
Australian Pricing is here: http://www.emona.com.au/ds7000/

DS-7000 SERIES (Inc. GST)            
DS-7014   100MHz, 4CH, 10GS/s   $4,754.20
DS-7024   200MHz, 4CH, 10GS/s   $6,514.20
DS-7034   350MHz, 4CH, 10GS/s   $11,310.20
DS-7054   500MHz, 4CH, 10GS/s   $15,328.50

Email: testinst@emona.com.au
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 11:07:00 am by EmonaSATom »
 
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Offline asmi

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2018, 07:43:46 pm »
Canadian pricing is here: https://www.rigolcanada.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/7000/
Interestingly it's cheaper over here than in Oz :) But still expensive :(
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2018, 07:46:39 pm »
We will get demo unit and stock units on June the 26th . as soon as possible we will release some videos . if you like to see anything special just reply here or send me a DM. thanks.
Technical Support
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2018, 07:53:52 pm »
I presume they are software bandwidth upgradable?
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2018, 07:57:07 pm »
Yes they are:
Bandwidth Upgrade Option
Bandwidth upgrades from 100 MHz to 200 MHz
Bandwidth upgrades from 100 MHz to 350 MHz
Bandwidth upgrades from 100 MHz to 500 MHz
Bandwidth upgrades from 200 MHz to 350 MHz
Bandwidth upgrades from 200 MHz to 500 MHz
Bandwidth upgrades from 350 MHz to 500 MHz
Technical Support
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #52 on: June 21, 2018, 07:59:14 pm »
Interesting about the overload recovery time.
Do they really mean 0.5 PERCENT the recovery time of other scopes?

 

Offline Karel

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #53 on: June 21, 2018, 08:56:24 pm »
We think this scope will be a winner.
Then why do you have such a small amount in stock?  >:D
I visit quite a few companies and so far I've only seen A-brand oscilloscopes in this price bracket. If Rigol wants to have any chance to make a name for themselves and compete then the firmware has to work 100% from day one. I just did a price comparison and the pricing on the DS7000 series is pretty much on par with similar instruments from A brands. There is very little room for justifying a make-do scope with partly working firmware in a professional environment where time equals money. I'm sure people will say I'm too negative but let's be real: Rigol doesn't have a very good track record and fixing firmware on their higher end models has taken long in the past. I'm looking forward to some in-depth tests which go deeper than twiddling some knobs to see what is what.

This.

Some years ago, we bought Rigol's flagship: the DS6104, including most options (uart, spi, i2c decoding etc.).
When we started to use the remote LAN connection, we hit the following three bugs:

bug no. 1: (reported at, and confirmed by, Rigol in October 2015)

When I run this software: https://www.teuniz.net/DSRemote/ and select LAN connection,
I get randomly the response: "command error". This blocks the connection for 5 seconds and a timeout occurs.
This happens randomly, and when it happens, it does after sending different commands.
So, it's not related to one and the same command. Sometimes the program runs fine for minutes.

bug no. 2: (reported at, and confirmed by, Rigol in Januari 2017)

Apply a squarewave of 1KHz to channel 1.
Set triggering to normal, rising edge.
Set the memory depth to 1.4Mpts.
Acquire the signal, then set the scope to STOP mode.

Download the waveform in RAW mode, format BYTE.

When you observe the downloaded waveform, the triggerpoint is
shifted about 460 nanoSec.

bug no. 3: (reported at, and confirmed by, Rigol in December 2016)

When setting  the treshold for the UART serial decoding,
it seems to work fine.
But when asking for the threshold setting, the value is always 10% of
the actual value.
This bug happens when the probe attenuation is set to 10:1.

These bugs are still unresolved and make it impossible for us to use the remote connection.

We have learned our lesson and we will never buy Rigol stuff anymore for our business.
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 
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Offline Porenbeton

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2018, 09:33:39 am »
I think there are quite a few things interresting about this scope.

It finally has some functions now performed in hardware instead of in software unlike all the other scopes from Rigol.
Decoding beeing probably the most useful out of them. The decode function in all rigol oscilloscopes at least up to the 4000 (i am not sure about ds6000) series is in my opinion barely usable.
It just slows down too much and has a lot of actual glitches in the data because the software has problems to correctly decode the on screen waveform data.
Hopefully the implementation in hardware is executed good enought, under this circumstance this would be a pretty big selling point for most people i think.
Also if i understood their marketing correctly math functions are also now completly in hardware. This would negate the huge loss of responsiveness from the ui while using math.
Beeing able to display 4 fuctions at the same time is also nice to have. But there is one big downside to this: I could not find anything related to custom math functions in the datasheet nore
could i see it in their marketing videos showing off the math functions. So I assume it is not implemented in this model or it is missing in the documentation and i overlooked something in the video.
Would be something interesting to look up if anyone here gets their hands on this. This function was quite useful from time to time, so it would be a bit dissapointing if it really was missing.

Also a quote from the store of one of Rigols distributors Batronix for the memory upgrade for the DS7000 series:
"[...] Simple activation via software code (memory is already build-in). Please specify the serial number of your oscilloscope, [...]."
So its safe to assume that all options are again activated with codes generated from the serial number if the description on the distributors store is correct.

If this scope is both option and bandwidth hackable then 2200€ without tax is really a unbeatable price for a 4 channel 500mhz scope with such high amount of sample memory and 
really high update rate + hardware decode.

But I wonder how responsive the touchscreen and the overall UI will be.

 

Offline imo

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2018, 09:03:10 pm »
Improving the speed of the fancy math and the analyses functions (including the UI responses) of an oscope is great, the only issue I see is the rule which still works in our today's digital world:
Quote
Sh.t in, sh.t out..
With 8bit input you get 8bit output. Any advanced math co-processor or any fastest ASIC cannot change that..
 

Online bugi

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2018, 12:34:23 am »
Improving the speed of the fancy math and the analyses functions (including the UI responses) of an oscope is great, the only issue I see is the rule which still works in our today's digital world:
Quote
Sh.t in, sh.t out..
With 8bit input you get 8bit output. Any advanced math co-processor or any fastest ASIC cannot change that..
Depending on the particular way the 8-bit input is produced (needs to have suitable level of uncorrelated noise), the desired math done, and the bandwidth needed, yes, they can produce more bits from less input bits. Basically the samples/bandwidth/time -to- more (effective) bits -tradeoff. The first example that comes to my mind is the FFT done while ERES is enabled, giving (slightly) lower noise on the produced FFT, etc.
 

Offline modernjack3

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2018, 05:21:49 am »
Damn.. this new scope is really messing with my head.
I wanted to get a DS4024E with 200MHz BW but now the DS7014 seems just so attractive.
Sadly I could only afford that scope with 100MHz BW and now I am struggling really hard.

The fastest Signal I would be going to measure would be a 50MHz Clock signal - do you guys think it is worth it to still go for the DS4024E
for the higher BW or should I get a DS7014 with 100MHz BW?

I hope I asked this question at the right place...sorry if I did not.

Greetings, Jack
 

Offline hendorog

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #58 on: June 25, 2018, 05:52:55 am »
Damn.. this new scope is really messing with my head.
I wanted to get a DS4024E with 200MHz BW but now the DS7014 seems just so attractive.
Sadly I could only afford that scope with 100MHz BW and now I am struggling really hard.

The fastest Signal I would be going to measure would be a 50MHz Clock signal - do you guys think it is worth it to still go for the DS4024E
for the higher BW or should I get a DS7014 with 100MHz BW?

I hope I asked this question at the right place...sorry if I did not.

Greetings, Jack

I have a ds4k scope and while it has served me very well I think it would be a big call to buy one now. It is quite dated and while it can grab data fast any of the new scopes beat it on the processing of that data.

I would go with the new guy.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2018, 05:56:47 am »
Damn.. this new scope is really messing with my head.
I wanted to get a DS4024E with 200MHz BW but now the DS7014 seems just so attractive.
Sadly I could only afford that scope with 100MHz BW and now I am struggling really hard.

The fastest Signal I would be going to measure would be a 50MHz Clock signal - do you guys think it is worth it to still go for the DS4024E
for the higher BW or should I get a DS7014 with 100MHz BW?

I hope I asked this question at the right place...sorry if I did not.

Greetings, Jack
For a 50MHz clock signal you'll need at least 200MHz to see some harmonics an have a clue about what the square wave looks like. 250 to 300MHz is even better. Still when spending this kind of money it is wise to look at other brands or even used. Read Karel's post carefully.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 06:01:10 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline modernjack3

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #60 on: June 25, 2018, 06:05:00 am »
Damn.. this new scope is really messing with my head.
I wanted to get a DS4024E with 200MHz BW but now the DS7014 seems just so attractive.
Sadly I could only afford that scope with 100MHz BW and now I am struggling really hard.

The fastest Signal I would be going to measure would be a 50MHz Clock signal - do you guys think it is worth it to still go for the DS4024E
for the higher BW or should I get a DS7014 with 100MHz BW?

I hope I asked this question at the right place...sorry if I did not.

Greetings, Jack
For a 50MHz clock signal you'll need at least 200MHz to see some harmonics an have a clue about what the square wave looks like. 250 to 300MHz is even better. Still when spending this kind of money it is wise to look at other brands or even used.

That is true but I thought about maybe renting (or borrowing) a scope with such a BW just for this one signal in the worst case or ( the case that I hope for) -
Maybe the DS7k series will also have some hardware hacks to push up the BW limit.
If not so then maybe I can afford a Software BW upgrade some time in the future...
The new ASIC (not to mention the touchscreen) is just so tempting :/

Greetings, Jack
 

Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2018, 06:16:36 am »
If you really want a nice touch screen and ASICs then buy an R&S RTB2000 or RTM3000 series. At least these scopes work and have 10 bit ADCs. AFAIK this is Rigol's first ASIC based scope and it may have some issues. I wouldn't want to be an early adopter for new technology which can't be fixed by a software update.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline modernjack3

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2018, 06:47:37 am »
If you really want a nice touch screen and ASICs then buy an R&S RTB2000 or RTM3000 series. At least these scopes work and have 10 bit ADCs. AFAIK this is Rigol's first ASIC based scope and it may have some issues. I wouldn't want to be an early adopter for new technology which can't be fixed by a software update.

You definitely have a strong point in that regard!
But I do not really need the 10 bit resolution and when it comes to the rest then the Rigol - at least on paper as far as I can see- is the clear winner when it comes to price and performance or am I missing out on something important that I can't see?

Greetings, Jack
 

Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #63 on: June 25, 2018, 06:55:20 am »
If you really want a nice touch screen and ASICs then buy an R&S RTB2000 or RTM3000 series. At least these scopes work and have 10 bit ADCs. AFAIK this is Rigol's first ASIC based scope and it may have some issues. I wouldn't want to be an early adopter for new technology which can't be fixed by a software update.

You definitely have a strong point in that regard!
But I do not really need the 10 bit resolution and when it comes to the rest then the Rigol - at least on paper as far as I can see- is the clear winner when it comes to price and performance or am I missing out on something important that I can't see?
Yes. There are many pieces of test equipment which look great on paper but don't work in real life. I really see what you mean and I went down the same rabbit hole already. A couple of years ago I spend over 2000 euro on a newly introduced oscilloscope which didn't work and I was foolish enough to believe the manufacturer (in this case Siglent) would fix the firmware soon. I ended up throwing it in the trash (=money wasted) and bought a different oscilloscope because I needed an oscilloscope which works. Again: read the posting from Karel. His experience is very similar to mine. If you want a piece of equipment which works then stay clear from Rigol and Siglent. They don't test their firmware at all. Sure the A brands slip up too but A) too a far lesser extend and B) they make things right even if it means taking the hardware back and fixing it.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 07:05:11 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline asmi

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #64 on: June 25, 2018, 10:57:15 am »
Sure the A brands slip up too but A) too a far lesser extend and B) they make things right even if it means taking the hardware back and fixing it.
You forgot to add C) charge you 2-3 times what "B" brands do for the same (or less) features content.
You get what you pay for.
 

Online lukier

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #65 on: June 25, 2018, 07:17:14 pm »
They don't test their firmware at all. Sure the A brands slip up too but A) too a far lesser extend and B) they make things right even if it means taking the hardware back and fixing it.

This is quite true, but I get the impression that things are changing. I must say I was fairly impressed with Siglent's responsivness and quick firmware fix releases for SDS1104X-E (see the big thread).

On the other hand you have stuff like Keysight's E36300A PSUs, bad standby & fan control design, long wait for firmware update and potential recall as AFAIR CH1 overshoot is still there. Or R&S having if I remember correctly fixed firmware release cycle (every quarter?) because dunno "we use SCRUM so f,.. you".

Things are not as they used to be.

Of course, overall, brand name stuff is still better, less bugs, better commercial support, repair service, providing spare parts for a long time after release and so on, but yet they charge for all that in much higher product prices (except the price of this Rigol scope maybe :) ).
 

Offline hendorog

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #66 on: June 25, 2018, 07:51:06 pm »
They don't test their firmware at all. Sure the A brands slip up too but A) too a far lesser extend and B) they make things right even if it means taking the hardware back and fixing it.

This is quite true, but I get the impression that things are changing. I must say I was fairly impressed with Siglent's responsivness and quick firmware fix releases for SDS1104X-E (see the big thread).

On the other hand you have stuff like Keysight's E36300A PSUs, bad standby & fan control design, long wait for firmware update and potential recall as AFAIR CH1 overshoot is still there. Or R&S having if I remember correctly fixed firmware release cycle (every quarter?) because dunno "we use SCRUM so f,.. you".

Things are not as they used to be.

Of course, overall, brand name stuff is still better, less bugs, better commercial support, repair service, providing spare parts for a long time after release and so on, but yet they charge for all that in much higher product prices (except the price of this Rigol scope maybe :) ).

I am sure that the part about not testing their firmware is not true. All companies test their hardware, firmware and software before release. However they all don't have the same capacity for testing and so don't find and fix all issues prior to release. Different companies also will have different tolerances for what they will release as well. E.g. Keysight might delay a release due to a spelling mistake in the UI, but maybe Siglent would go ahead and fix it later.

The problem is that it is impossible to test every combination of every feature. You would be there for multiple lifetimes. Nobody can do complete testing, but some companies can do better than others. For example if a company invests in an automated test framework, and then invests in creating tests for that framework for every new feature, and then invests in maintaining those tests as the firmware changes, then they have an improved testing capability vs someone who did not invest.

Also, Keysight/R&S/Brand A have many years of experience of testing complex devices. They also have many experienced people who are able to use their intuition and discover bugs first before the public ever see them. Their ability to pull this off will obviously diminish as they lose these people through natural attrition, cutbacks etc and as the complexity of the instruments increases. They will need to adapt and no doubt they are doing so as this is pretty obvious stuff.

 

Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #67 on: June 25, 2018, 08:30:44 pm »
They don't test their firmware at all. Sure the A brands slip up too but A) too a far lesser extend and B) they make things right even if it means taking the hardware back and fixing it.

This is quite true, but I get the impression that things are changing. I must say I was fairly impressed with Siglent's responsivness and quick firmware fix releases for SDS1104X-E (see the big thread).


Of course, overall, brand name stuff is still better, less bugs, better commercial support, repair service, providing spare parts for a long time after release and so on, but yet they charge for all that in much higher product prices (except the price of this Rigol scope maybe :) ).
I am sure that the part about not testing their firmware is not true. All companies test their hardware, firmware and software before release.
The difference is that with Rigol (and Siglent) very basic functions are not working properly and new versions even break existing functionality every now and then. There is no other explaination for this other than that the testing is not performed in a structured way (= using a test plan and a software tester / software testing department) which equals to not testing at all.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 09:33:17 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline toli

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2018, 03:48:22 am »
I must agree with this point. I recently got the SDS1204X-E + MSO option. The MSO is a new "instrument", but I went for this combination as it seemed to tick all the boxes for my needs at a low price. Plus, its "just" a few extra digital channels for a scope that is already used by forum members for a while, right? Unfortunately, the MSO is very problematic, and practically useless, too many bugs for me to live with. Whats more, I have no idea when it'll be fixed (if at all), and if so what the fix will "cost" in other parameters of the scope.

Personally, I will think twice the next time before buying an instrument that doesn't have a proven track record.
 

Offline 1anX

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #69 on: June 26, 2018, 01:25:09 pm »
I have the good old Rigol DS1054Z and hacked it to 100Mhz with full features. Probably just one of thousands who have done this and found the scope to be good value because of its hackability. The scope has gone thru many firmware revisions with the latest being early this year. Pretty well sorted but Rigol still spell Pulses as Pluses, not exactly an issue but still no fix for a simple spelling error.

The DS7000 appeals to me and probably lots of others like me that bought the DS1054Z, providing its hackable. If its hackable I would upgrade even though my 100Mhz scope meets my needs. What I'm attempting to say is if I am to upgrade to another 8 bit scope then it must represent great value for money otherwise I stay with what I have.

I'm hoping Rigol will turn a blind eye to a hackable upgrade path just like it did with the DS1054Z. If this is possible then this scope will get my money and I'll upgrade. Look forward to seeing what pans out with this new scope from Rigol!
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #70 on: June 26, 2018, 05:53:03 pm »
DS7000 is potentially very powerful.

A brands are only good because they tend to keep a platform for very long time. R&S new series is very buggy. Even with basic functions. No better than Siglent in my eye.
But since R&S is an company that plans to sell these scopes for 6-7 years or even more, they will eventually fix all of it. And then, if you buy it then it will be rock solid.

Most important concept here is to keep updating existing, already sold hardware. And not to churn out new scope every 2 years and never fix old ones.
Until now Rigol (for instance) was playing catch up game. Trying to make scopes that will be good enough to compete with big boys. Making new platform every year or two. Learning and developing.
Using existing A/D converters, FPGA etc. Trying different combinations to make it work and yet to cheap to produce. Changing things all the time. Experimenting. Giving up on the stuff that didn't work..

Like we all do.

Meanwhile, Keysight (for instance) kept on producing same old Megazoom architecture (that's 10 years old) , building on 10 years old code base. It made sense for them NOT to change anything major.
And since they knew they were in it for a long run, they made hardware with room to grow some and kept developing and debugging software.
Don't be naive. It wasn't so they can give more to old customers they already gave them money.
It is because they have to keep producing same old scope but make it look relevant and fresh.
But not being idiots, in today's brave world of field upgrades, they let you download new versions. You like them for it. And it makes life easier for them, because they don't have to support bugs on 27 sub-revisions of software since it was released. Win- win.

And now, Rigol has a chipset. It will make sense for them to play the sam game. Keep the platform. Milk it a bit. Develop few more scopes with it. Debug it and make it modular so they don't have to reinvent the wheel all the time... And build up reputation, so they can also charge a bit better prices...

In 70s Honda was a cheap, mini hatchback crap that sold only because it was cheap. Chinese are just following Japanese method. How successful are they going to be, I don't know. But by judging what they did so far,  we should not underestimate them.
 

Offline glarsson

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #71 on: June 26, 2018, 06:08:26 pm »
.
Until now Rigol (for instance) was playing catch up game. Trying to make scopes that will be good enough to compete with big boys. Making new platform every year or two.
But Rigol have not released new oscilloscopes every year or two.
 

Offline carl0s

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2018, 11:04:31 am »
They could've at least made it black or gold or something.
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2018, 04:04:03 pm »
the black one will come in the future, see as example the Rigol RSA5000 and RSA3000
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Offline 1anX

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #74 on: June 30, 2018, 09:22:57 am »
I'm looking forward to reading/watching some independent reviews on this new scope.

Dave when are you getting hold of one to tear down and review?

Without serious and in depth reviews we dont know if the new DS-7000 series is buggy or up to spec!

No one wants to be an early adopter of a brand new product featuring its own custom asic and feature set, without seeing some serious independent testing.

Come on Rigol get some of these units out for testing in the wild!
 

Offline maxpayne

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #75 on: July 03, 2018, 02:05:15 pm »
Got a mail this morning from Rigol showing comparison with Keysight 3000T and Tektronix MDO3000...

https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/fs/blocks/showLandingPage/a/1579/p/p-006b/t/page/fm/0?sid=TV2:XzlBJUIBo&sid=TV2:wMsyMtJJp
 

Offline toli

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #76 on: July 03, 2018, 04:47:24 pm »
The problem is that they are comparing Rigol pricing vs. list prices of competitors. I doubt Rigol actually thinks companies are paying the list price when buying a scope from one of the A brands. If they are counting on the list price difference to sell them, they are in for a very bad surprise.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #77 on: July 03, 2018, 08:31:44 pm »
Got a mail this morning from Rigol showing comparison with Keysight 3000T and Tektronix MDO3000...

https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/fs/blocks/showLandingPage/a/1579/p/p-006b/t/page/fm/0?sid=TV2:XzlBJUIBo&sid=TV2:wMsyMtJJp
Why is R&S' RTM3000 missing from this comparison? Why only compare with older oscilloscopes which have been on the market for several years?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 08:36:06 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #78 on: July 03, 2018, 08:44:19 pm »
Choosing the right brand/model is like deciding what to vote during the elections.
Don't look at politicians' programs and campaigns. Instead, look at how they performed in the past.

In general, people tend to think that the next time they will perform better...
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 

Offline 1anX

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #79 on: July 04, 2018, 07:57:03 am »
Rigol have a niche in the value area for test instruments when compared to similar others, they offer performance for price, (bang for buck).

If they step up in the feature set and start competing with the A brands the only way they can get a foothold is by having lower, (much lower) purchase price. If these DSOs offer entry point hacking to higher BW, etc, they will be a runaway success, but for $11,000 other established options present themselves.

The Chinese make the Great Wall vehicle range and can be viewed as an analogue for Rigol, great value vehicles, (very low prices) but never considered when up against a similarly priced A brand vehicle.

IMO if Rigol want to compete with the established big boys in test measurement then their prices and features must represent value for money. Paying to enable every option/feature on the DS-7000s is pushing the proverbial up hill. The features/options should come enabled and only pay for enabling BW upgrades. Making the Protocol Analysis options for the scopes free would be a step in the right direction. This would make them a more attractive alternative to be considered.

I would buy one if they represented  real value, (low price, many features) otherwise other A brands would get my money!

« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 08:06:03 am by 1anX »
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #80 on: July 04, 2018, 08:52:32 am »
Well, DS7000 looks quite good on paper. But the front panel is confusing. It has 100Mpoints per channel. It might be slow at this memory setting.
Amazing machines. http://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline H.O

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #81 on: July 04, 2018, 03:07:51 pm »
It has anywhere between 25 and 500Mpts per channel depending on what options you have and how many channels you have enabled.

At €2600 (incl VAT) for the base model it looks like a nice contender if/when it's found to be hackable.

IMHO the prices for the options are ridiculous, i mean €900 each for the decoder option (yes there's a bundle at €1900) and €1350 to enable the full memory - on a scope costing €2600...come on.
 
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Online maginnovision

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #82 on: July 04, 2018, 05:24:12 pm »
IMHO the prices for the options are ridiculous, i mean €900 each for the decoder option (yes there's a bundle at €1900) and €1350 to enable the full memory - on a scope costing €2600...come on.

Having you looked at the cost of options for what they compared their scope to? This isn't a replacement 1054Z.
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #83 on: July 04, 2018, 05:58:33 pm »
Having you looked at the cost of options for what they compared their scope to? This isn't a replacement 1054Z.

That would actually be a really nice addition to the whole measurement market portfolio: Something like a "DS1504X" or how it would be designated: An instrument the compact size and low weight of the DS1054Z but equipped with the new ASIC, a high resolution touch screen and  the grunt of the 7000 model. Don't mind shared controls on a compact scope. I guess if Rigol would offer that (at a resonable price, of course), they would sell quite a few...

Cheers
 

Offline H.O

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #84 on: July 04, 2018, 06:18:18 pm »
Having you looked at the cost of options for what they compared their scope to? This isn't a replacement 1054Z.
Sort of and they appear to be equally ridiculous.
 

Offline 1anX

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #85 on: July 04, 2018, 06:25:35 pm »
IMHO the prices for the options are ridiculous, i mean €900 each for the decoder option (yes there's a bundle at €1900) and €1350 to enable the full memory - on a scope costing €2600...come on.

Having you looked at the cost of options for what they compared their scope to? This isn't a replacement 1054Z.

I understand what you are saying that its not a 1054Z replacement and compared to A brands its price is competitive.The thing is that its new and untested, and has not been independently assessed by any qualified 3rd party yet. New ASIC feature set and specs remain simply advertising blurb until tested live in the lab.

Rigol are good cheap test instruments that generally if buggy when released get fixed, but the DS-7000 as I said before does not tempt me. Cheap to get into then expensive to option up. Rigol need to add value for the prospective customer to consider this scope over others.

To make this value brand scope sell then Rigol will need to sharpen their pencil and add real value for the user. IMO Rigol need to offer all protocol decoder options free on all the DS-7000 models. The cheapest 100MHz BW model as well as having the decoder options free, should also start at 200MHz and drop the 100MHz model option altogether.

Rigol need to understand that their market share comes from the value for money sector of test equipment. When spending $11000 on a value brand like Rigol DS-7000 the other 'A' brand DSOs will win me and my money.

I would love to buy a feature rich DSO like the DS-7000 but Rigol need to be more realistic in their pricing. Option enabling on the scope is value adding for Rigol only, (increased profit) and not the customer who can clearly see hardware is already in place.

It would take a massive pricing rethink by Rigol to tempt me to buy their new scope. I would love to upgrade to the new Rigol instrument, problem is its priced like a Porsche and in reality its brand is the analogue of a Great Wall pickup.

When are we going to see independent reviews on this new Rigol scope?


« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 06:29:07 pm by 1anX »
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #86 on: July 05, 2018, 01:04:57 am »
When is Dave Jones going to review the MSO version of the new Rigol 7000 series?

In this review I would like to see an extensive real world protocol decoder test and Logic Analyzer test.

The test should test the speed when using full memory depth, and should verify if the protocol decoding is really done in hardware.

One should also make a long memory capture, and search in the long memory capture to verify how easy it is to search within a long trace.

Maybe use an actual PCB board of a commercial product, where I2C, SPI, CAN signals are present, and perform a real world protocol decoder test and Logic Analyzer test.
Perform a real world troubleshooting session, to put the product to a real world test!

This video would have a dual function: verify how good the MSO version of the new Rigol 7000 series is, and at the same time educate about troubleshooting techniques using powerful protocol decoder and LA tools.

Of course the test should also verify how good the new analog front-end is (bandwidth, trigger implementation, jitter, noise level).

Rumours in the past indicated that Rigol engineers have no clue on how to properly implement the trigger circuitry, and that there actually is a fundamental flaw in the design.
Maybe the trigger implementation can be verified in the new Rigol 7000 series.

Another nice test would be to check if Rigol has a similar feature as Siglent to generate Bode diagrams on the oscilloscope, where the oscilloscope controls an external signal generator.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 01:23:41 am by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #87 on: July 05, 2018, 03:02:57 am »
Seconded. Rigol's 4000 series had a bug where serial decoding didn't work in segmented memory mode until years after release ::) , it would be good to know if there were any similar bugs in the 7000.

The 4000s also have annoying trigger UX, but AFAIK that's a result of the firmware and software, not the hardware. The hardware trigger works OK -- no sub-sample spacing but otherwise fine, and no clock jitter on trig out, so it's a real trigger rather than a GPIO abomination. The jankiness comes from the fact that its time offset isn't calibrated out in the FPGA so the software attempts a secondary digital trigger to nudge the trigger crossing a few ns to the specified trigger location. This works fine when the trigger is on-screen and not at all when it isn't. Also, for some reason, the software trigger isn't applied while scrolling, so on low ns/div the signal appears to hop between the uncalibrated hardware trigger and exact software trigger, which is frustrating. You can work around this problem by manually entering a timebase offset to calibrate out the trigger delay, but ugh.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 11:31:33 pm by jjoonathan »
 

Offline 1anX

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #88 on: July 06, 2018, 08:36:45 am »
Dave! if your reading this?
Have Rigol made this new scope series available for test and tear down anytime soon with you?
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #89 on: July 17, 2018, 06:45:29 pm »
Yes, we are all waiting for this detailed review as per above description! :)
 

Offline hmlittle59

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #90 on: July 18, 2018, 01:24:42 am »
Hello All,

My 2 cents and recent observation.
 
I have a early Rigol DS2102, use only as needed for the pass 5+ years.  Software rarely updated and when I did Rigol Rep. was shocked at the version I had. Works great.  Still has over 1000 min. of trial code active. :-DD
Anyway...
Was looking to upgrade to the Rigol MSO4014 from TEquip. and the price was $ 3500.00 plus 2 Free Bundles of upgrades (Bandwidth and Trigger Code).
Well that price break and the Bandwidth are gone after the 7000 came out. :=\  Snooze you loose.  Now $3999.

Now I will also wait on Dave's REVIEW.

I may just go back and just get the upgrades for my DS2102 only once they run out and save a dollar or 2. :-// :-// :-//

Like I said...My 2cents and observation.

Howard


 

Offline annerajb

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #91 on: July 18, 2018, 12:59:23 pm »
Concur. Just found the DS7000 would like a few reviews from knowledgeable third parties.
 

Offline 1anX

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #92 on: Yesterday at 08:49:55 am »
I keep Googling looking for DS7000 reviews from 3rd parties but find only Rigol and distributors posting the videos and specs.

You would think Rigol would have had this out to Dave and others to post reviews/teardowns to maximise their marketing for a new premium product they bill as being the match and better value than the current 'A' brand offerings.

Makes me wonder why we are not yet seeing reviews from the likes of EEVBlog etc?
 

Offline carl0s

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #93 on: Yesterday at 07:15:19 pm »
Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but one slightly disappointing thing, maybe, is that the 10 GSa/s  is, erm, muxed over all 4 channels. Whereas on other 4ch scopes, I think, it's just muxed across AB and CD.

So while it's 10GSa/s when using one channel, you can't do the trick of using CH1 and CH3 to still get the full sample rate.

e.g. on a ds1054z with 1GSa/s, you could use CH1 and CH3 and it won't split the sampling rate in half.

Sampling 4 channels on a DS1054z would give 500MSa/s per channel, and the DS7000 would give 2.5GSa/s.

I suppose it's still a minimum of 5x greater.
Using 1 channel it's 10x greater, any more than 1 channel, it's never more than 5x greater.
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Offline JPortici

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #94 on: Yesterday at 07:21:36 pm »
e.g. on a ds1054z with 1GSa/s, you could use CH1 and CH3 and it won't split the sampling rate in half.

Sampling 4 channels on a DS1054z would give 500MSa/s per channel, and the DS7000 would give 2.5GSa/s.

not at all. 1054z has a single ADC.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #95 on: Yesterday at 08:12:20 pm »
Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but one slightly disappointing thing, maybe, is that the 10 GSa/s  is, erm, muxed over all 4 channels. Whereas on other 4ch scopes, I think, it's just muxed across AB and CD.

So while it's 10GSa/s when using one channel, you can't do the trick of using CH1 and CH3 to still get the full sample rate.

e.g. on a ds1054z with 1GSa/s, you could use CH1 and CH3 and it won't split the sampling rate in half.

Sampling 4 channels on a DS1054z would give 500MSa/s per channel, and the DS7000 would give 2.5GSa/s.

I suppose it's still a minimum of 5x greater.
Using 1 channel it's 10x greater, any more than 1 channel, it's never more than 5x greater.

They all do that. At least you can have on ch with 10GS. All other have with 2x5GS shared over 4 channel(2.5 GS/ch), or 4x2.5 GS, or 1x5GS over 4ch (1.25 GS/ch)....
You have to go to a class higher scopes to have higher sample rates...
5x than analog bandwidth of input channel is absolutely perfect.
 

Offline carl0s

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #96 on: Today at 01:29:46 am »
Ah fair enough. Maybe it's the sample memory then? I can't remember what it was, but something is split per bank of A/B and C/D.
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Offline carl0s

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #97 on: Today at 02:06:01 am »
Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but one slightly disappointing thing, maybe, is that the 10 GSa/s  is, erm, muxed over all 4 channels. Whereas on other 4ch scopes, I think, it's just muxed across AB and CD.

So while it's 10GSa/s when using one channel, you can't do the trick of using CH1 and CH3 to still get the full sample rate.

e.g. on a ds1054z with 1GSa/s, you could use CH1 and CH3 and it won't split the sampling rate in half.

Sampling 4 channels on a DS1054z would give 500MSa/s per channel, and the DS7000 would give 2.5GSa/s.

I suppose it's still a minimum of 5x greater.
Using 1 channel it's 10x greater, any more than 1 channel, it's never more than 5x greater.

They all do that. At least you can have on ch with 10GS. All other have with 2x5GS shared over 4 channel(2.5 GS/ch), or 4x2.5 GS, or 1x5GS over 4ch (1.25 GS/ch)....
You have to go to a class higher scopes to have higher sample rates...
5x than analog bandwidth of input channel is absolutely perfect.

Hmm I guess I've got confused somewhere along the way, but the Siglent 4ch scopes have 2x ADC and 2x storage over the 2ch scopes. I just watched Dave's teardown of the DS1054z again and I see all 4 channels go into the same ADC.
--
Carl
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #98 on: Today at 05:34:32 am »
They have dual 1Gs/sec that is 500MS/sec per ch... I think 10GS/sec divided by 4 is still 2,5GS/sec per channel..
And it has 100/250/500 Msamples memory divided by 4. Keysight DSOX3000T has 4Msamples...
 

Online tautech

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #99 on: Today at 06:55:56 am »
Hmm I guess I've got confused somewhere along the way, but the Siglent 4ch scopes have 2x ADC and 2x storage over the 2ch scopes. I just watched Dave's teardown of the DS1054z again and I see all 4 channels go into the same ADC.
Yes, that's the point of difference and the reason for the higher price......2 ADC's.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist & NZ Siglent Distributor
 

Offline carl0s

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #100 on: Today at 08:29:57 am »
How does this look against the R & S with the capacitive touch screen and fluent interface? 3004 or whatever it is? I think bigger screen with less laggy interface and general fluency is what would draw me into buying the 100MHz version of this. and hackability of course :)
The Rigol looks to be much better value with more memory. We just need to see if the interface is good. Even though I have no genuine need or use for it, I could see myself buying one of these just for the general tool-addiction satisfaction.
« Last Edit: Today at 08:33:51 am by carl0s »
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