Author Topic: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser  (Read 4510 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Offline Johncanfield

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2018, 11:31:33 am »
Please forgive this probably stupid question,  but aren't all SA's "real time", (I have a Siglent SA.)
 

Offline 1anX

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2018, 12:37:51 pm »
9kHz to 6.5gig make this analyser perfect for my uses!
Tear it down Dave, and give us your verdict, the sooner the better, as have been considering Siglent's offering!
 

Online TheSteve

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2018, 12:44:33 pm »
Please forgive this probably stupid question,  but aren't all SA's "real time", (I have a Siglent SA.)

No, most sweep the frequency range you've got selected. As a result if a signal is not present when the spectrum analyzer tunes to that specific frequency during the sweep you won't see it. This is pretty common with frequency hopping transmissions etc. A realtime spectrum analyzer will sample a given bandwidth(often around 40 MHz) so you can see that entire range at once and constantly so you won't miss short transmissions etc.
VE7FM
 
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Offline Devov

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2018, 01:34:27 pm »
I was expecting them to launch a new DSA, the 800 series are getting pretty old and were out-competed by the new Siglents.  I was hoping for a redesign with a snappier UI refresh rate, bigger screen, but still a budget device in the ~$3k range.  These RSA5000 are $9k+ with a tracking generator.
 

Offline Andrey_irk

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2018, 02:40:21 pm »
I hope they'll send one to Shahriar and he'll have enough time to do a proper review.

In this price range it will be hard for them to compete with companies like KS or R&S. I mean, even if this SA is a bit cheaper than the competitors, customers will think twice before buying it as the Rigol is unlikely to offer the same service and support.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 02:45:12 pm by Andrey_irk »
 
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Offline TurboTom

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2018, 08:00:20 pm »
Sorry for the pessimistic attitude but I don't know where Rigol hired their product designers recently. Their electronic load was front-panel design-wise a nightmare and this SA is no better. I see three times "Spectrum analyzer" written / embossed on the panel -- yes, I know it's a spectrum analyzer... I didn't count the fonts used and the round about ten different shapes of buttons definitely don't make it better. Since this instrument is clearly aimed at the (semi-) professional users, whom do they intend to attract with a design like that? Actually, in order to convince me to buy a device like this, it's got to have superb technical features and be more than a bargain to make me overlook the abominating appearance  >:D

I considered Rigol a serious contender in the inexpensive measurement instrument market but with this recent move, they are making a joke of themselves. I only hope they got the internals right this time, other than with the DL3000.

Cheers,
Tom
 
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2018, 02:30:51 am »
Please forgive this probably stupid question,  but aren't all SA's "real time", (I have a Siglent SA.)
Hello, RSA5000 has two modalities:
GPSA : general purpose spectrum analyzer, sweep mode like Rigol DSA800 and Siglent SSA3000X
RTSA : real time spectrum analyzer where you have 25MHz standard or 40MHz optional real time bandwidth analysis. this will allow you to have 25 or 40MHz span real time BW from the center frequency you want to analyze.

here is the link to download the Rigol app note "Realtime Spectrum Analyzer Vs Spectrum Analyzer"
https://www.batterfly.com/PDF/RIGOL/Appnote-Real-Time-Rigol.pdf

I'm here to help if I can answer more tech questions, cheers!
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Offline MattSR

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2018, 02:57:20 am »
If the vertical axis is amplitude, horizontal is freq, so what do the colours mean?
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2018, 03:28:03 am »
from the user manual:
"The Density view is displayed combined with the persistence view. X-axis represents frequency, Y-axis represents amplitude, Z-axis represents number of hits, and T-axis represents time. This view displays four dimensional data on a two dimensional display, using color to represent Z-axis and brightness to represent T-axis."
please look for the word "color" into the user manual and the application note, you will find a detailed description.

here is the link to the user manual:
https://www.batterfly.com/PDF/RIGOL/RSA5000_UserGuide_EN.pdf
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Offline borjam

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2018, 03:31:05 am »
If the vertical axis is amplitude, horizontal is freq, so what do the colours mean?
If the vertical axis is amplitude, horizontal is freq, so what do the colours mean?
The amount of time that each amplitude value has been recorded for each frequency. It's a heat map.

That red line shows that most of the time the band was somewhat idle and transmissions were intermitent. This is an example from a very modest spectrum analyzer in which you can see what a constant carrier looks like.

The left signal is an analog audio/video transmitter working on 2.4 GHz and the reason why it was a nightmare to set up a WiFi network on the first channels :) The center signal is a WiFi network, you can see thanks to its color that transmissions are not so frequent.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2018, 09:30:31 pm »
In this price range it will be hard for them to compete with companies like KS or R&S. I mean, even if this SA is a bit cheaper than the competitors, customers will think twice before buying it as the Rigol is unlikely to offer the same service and support.
I agree. In this price range buyers will require a device which works and bugs fixed immediately. If you look at Rigol's more expensive equipment then you'll notice that getting a similar device from an A-brand doesn't cost that much extra. So why take the risk? And then there is also the second hand market.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2018, 09:42:03 pm »
We have just got the unit today and next week I will start making tests.
Actually the list of companies waiting to see a demo is pretty long and we will learn more while visiting them.
Back to the bugs, I remember when TEK RSA was introduced was a nightmare for installing the SW and for many other issue, not sure they have solved all of them.
However ... I'm excited about the new product so I can learn more about applications.

I'm pretty sure Rigol is not giving up the entry level market and will bring more exciting models in the future.
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2018, 01:34:08 am »
So why take the risk? And then there is also the second hand market.
i briefly checked 2nd hand market in ebay yesterday. the cost is similar to this NIB rigol... anyway, $10K is not in my affordable list right now, neither 1st nor 2nd hand market...
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2018, 01:38:36 am »
few real images :) just got it
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Offline taydin

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2018, 01:47:13 am »
I hope they'll send one to Shahriar and he'll have enough time to do a proper review.

In this price range it will be hard for them to compete with companies like KS or R&S. I mean, even if this SA is a bit cheaper than the competitors, customers will think twice before buying it as the Rigol is unlikely to offer the same service and support.

Did you ever look at how much a real time SA from KS, R&S, or Tektronix costs? I am looking at the prices for a few months now, and you can't get ANY RTSA from these companies under 35,000 dollars!

Examples:

Tektronix RSA5xxx: 25 MHz RTBW and 13.5 GHz BW, absolutely NO options at all costs $54,000
Keysight  N9020B: 25 MHz RTBW and 13.5 GHz BW, absolutely NO options at all costs $47,000

I am very enthusiastic about this Rigol offering and I applaud them for offering a 25 MHz RTBW SA for a price around $10,000. It will do 90% of what the big boys do, but without those insanely low noise figures etc. And if you need those, then you probably already have millions of dollars at your disposal to get the best that's available.
 

Offline taydin

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2018, 01:51:25 am »
In fact, the "around $10,000" figure includes tracking generator, pre-amp option. With the big boys, the pre-amp option costs thousands of dollars extra, and they don't have a tracking generator by default.
 

Online Sparky

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2018, 03:26:43 am »
From Rigol's website the options Realtime Bandwidth, Advance Measurements and PreAmplifier are all software license options.  What about the "High Stability Clock" option (OCXO-C08) mentioned in the datasheet?  I don't see any different pricing for this option so I wonder how it's specified at purchase and what it cost.

Looking foward to Dave and Shahriar doing in-depth review, teardown and discussion!  :D
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2018, 03:32:36 am »
Part number OCXO-C08 euro 695.-net
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Offline taydin

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2018, 03:41:11 am »
Another very good option for a RTSA that won't cost you an arm, leg, or kidneys is the Signal Hound SM200A. 20 GHz analysis bandwidth, 160 MHz (!) RTBW, and overall better noise figure compared to the Rigol. Price is similar to Rigol's offering, but as far as I can see, it doesn't have built in TG.

But for me the disadvantage with the SM200A is that it isn't represented in Turkey, so it will get more expensive with all the import procedures, duties etc. I'm looking into getting either the RSA5000 or the SM200A soon.
 
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Offline chriswebb

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2018, 04:12:31 am »
Another very good option for a RTSA that won't cost you an arm, leg, or kidneys is the Signal Hound SM200A. 20 GHz analysis bandwidth, 160 MHz (!) RTBW, and overall better noise figure compared to the Rigol. Price is similar to Rigol's offering, but as far as I can see, it doesn't have built in TG.

But for me the disadvantage with the SM200A is that it isn't represented in Turkey, so it will get more expensive with all the import procedures, duties etc. I'm looking into getting either the RSA5000 or the SM200A soon.

Have you looked into Aaronia? Seems comparable, but don't know the brand very well.
Always learning. The greatest part of life is that there will always be more to learn.
 

Offline taydin

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2018, 05:05:08 am »
Have you looked into Aaronia? Seems comparable, but don't know the brand very well.

I did look at their offerings, too. But as you said, not much information available on the internet. But in some their marketing material, they seem to be portraying it as a tool for WIFI infrastructure installation and troubleshooting. Kinda like the WiSpy USB dongle, but of course much more capable, much more advanced than WiSpy. I wish I could get a demo of it here in Turkey. It's also in a similar price range with the Rigol and SM200A.
 

Offline taydin

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2018, 05:10:34 am »
And another application where it is marketed for is drone detection. But I want to find out how it will work as an electronics lab instrument.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2018, 05:11:08 am »
Another very good option for a RTSA that won't cost you an arm, leg, or kidneys is the Signal Hound SM200A. 20 GHz analysis bandwidth, 160 MHz (!) RTBW, and overall better noise figure compared to the Rigol. Price is similar to Rigol's offering, but as far as I can see, it doesn't have built in TG.
you can get classical sweep SA wt TG for about $2K 2nd hand. imho we'll need RTSA for intermittent signal such as frequency hopping. other than that, sweep SA will do. the main difference signalhound compared to this is it doesnt have a monitor and buttons.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline taydin

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2018, 05:31:47 am »
you can get classical sweep SA wt TG for about $2K 2nd hand. imho we'll need RTSA for intermittent signal such as frequency hopping. other than that, sweep SA will do.

You also need an RTSA if you need to demodulate a data stream, like 802.11n OFDM etc. The RTSA will not have a blind time within it's RTBW, which will make this possible.

the main difference signalhound compared to this is it doesnt have a monitor and buttons.

I think putting it that way is very unfair to the SM200A. You are getting 20 GHz bandwith with SM200A, and a whopping 160 MHz RTBW !

To put it into context, for the keysight N9020B, you have to pay $20,000 in order to bring the standard 25 MHz RTBW up to 160 MHz : :o

And you need to shell out $22,000 to bring the standard 3.2 GHz bandwidth up to 26.5 GHz :o

So in keysight terms, you are getting a $44,000 upgrade with the SM200A.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 05:34:10 am by taydin »
 


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