New Saleae digital/analog analyzers

[suicidaleggroll]

Just announced today (I think)

https://www.saleae.com/

Looks like there are four new models in the lineup, all combined digital/analog.  It's only pre-order for now.

Logic 4: $99
1 digital/analog input
3 digital only
12 MS/s digital
6 MS/s analog

Logic 8: $199
8 digital/analog inputs
100 MS/s digital
10 MS/s analog

Logic Pro 8: $399
8 digital/analog inputs
500 MS/s digital
50 MS/s analog

Logic Pro 16: $499
16 digital/analog inputs
500 MS/s digital
50 MS/s analog


Looks like the Pro 8 and 16 could replace a low end mixed signal DSO for <5 MHz low voltage (-10 to 10v) signals, and I like the looks of the $100 Logic 4 for basic work.

I wonder how their software will handle triggering on the analog signals.  And it would be a really good idea now that they have analog input to implement a real time view feature in their software, rather than the capture, view, rinse&repeat process of the current setup.

[Zbig]

Looks like the Pro 8 and 16 could replace a low end mixed signal DSO for <5 MHz signals,

Not for me, it couldn't. Complement - yes, replace - nope. Great feature for many of the "Arduino/RasPi + some sensors" type of projects but not a scope replacement. Even they themselves honestly admit that in their FAQ.

[suicidaleggroll]

I meant that it could replace it for certain tasks (and for some people, the majority of their tasks), not that you could buy this and sell your DSO since you don't need it anymore.

[Jon86]

Also .1" headers don't make the best RF connectors...

[JoeGarrison]

Analog Triggers are going to be part of the release, yes.

Also, real time view is on the way, but won't make it into the release.  Vote it up! http://ideas.saleae.com

And no, the new Logic is not exactly an oscilloscope replacement.  We *may* be thinking about doing that later.

Here's what you can not do with Logic's analog capability:
High Voltages
Really small signals (<100mV) at high resolution
Really fast analog signals (over the rated bandwidth, which is 600kHz, 1MHz, or 5MHz depending on model)
Measure signal integrity on fast digital edges
RF
Eye Diagram

Here's what you can do:
All low-medium bandwidth, low-voltage analog
Analog sensors
DAC/ADC/PWM->Analog
Op-amp circuits, classic analog circuits
Data logging
Power rail monitoring
Audio
Control systems
etc.

I've probably left a few things out, of both sides of the ledger.  Let me know!

-Joe (Saleae Co-Founder)

[trevwhite]

Good luck with the launch, looks a great product.

[jeremy]

I'm not sure it is different enough to warrant the price difference between the analog discovery. With the projected 10 ENOB @ +-10V, that's 20mV per step which is really quite poor for analog/audio work; I see no mention of range switching? I was really looking forward to this (I guessed what it was after reading the email that something new was coming ), but I am underwhelmed with the lack of fine voltage resolution. Makes it more of a toy than an instrument for me Perhaps I will make my own 16 channel analog frontend....

And for the record: I absolutely love my saleae logic, had it for a long time, and recommended to a colleague that he buy a big boxful of them for our EE students (which he promptly did). IF this device fits your needs, saleae is definitely a company that deserves your money.

[nerdyHippy]

Looks neat, but I'd rather forgo the analog stuff and just have a faster digital analyzer. Does anyone know if the planned software improvements will work with the older Logic models?

[os40la]

It still doesn't seem to be as good as the Intronix LA1034 LogicPort (My opinion of course)   

Timing mode sample rate: 500MHz 
State mode sample rate:   200MHz 
and I think this is on all 34 channels at once 
$389 
Great triggering and decoding 

I just wish they up the sample memory 
unchanged since like 2005 

[os40la]

I would like to add that I do like the new saleae 8 and 16. If the price was lower then I may pick that over the Intronix. If the Saleae had 32 channels I would defiantly pick that.

Saleae +1 for great UI. Well polished  You just made my choice of a LA ever harder to decide.

[os40la]

Does anyone know what the max sample rate is when all 16 channels are on? I couldn't find it on their website.

[jeremy]

If it is like their older models, it samples all of the channels all of the time, so the max sample rate does not change. It just ignores the data that you don't want on the PC.

[zapta]

It still doesn't seem to be as good as the Intronix LA1034 LogicPort (My opinion of course)   

Does it support Mac OSX (Saleae does). Can it decode LIN bus (Saleae does, and many other protocols). As you can see, it's not a win win.

[zapta]

I've probably left a few things out, of both sides of the ledger.  Let me know!

-Joe (Saleae Co-Founder)

Hi Joe, what will happen to the software of the old Logic8/16, will you keep supporting it? Adding protocols and features?  I got my Logic 8 about 6 months ago and will hate seeing it neglected.

[os40la]

Does it support Mac OSX (Saleae does). Can it decode LIN bus (Saleae does, and many other protocols). As you can see, it's not a win win.
[/quote]

I agree. I was trying to say that in my other posts. I seem to have failed at making that point. my bad  . My intent was not to make it sound like the LP was better but was better at sample rate and had more channels. The saleae seems to be better on everything else. +2 for MAC I missed that.

[os40la]

I think I found the sample rates for the PRO16 from their site.

(With all analog off)

# Digital Channels Active (max)
5       500MS/s
10     250MS/s
16     125MS/s
 
way better than their previous versions.  

[fake-name]

It still doesn't seem to be as good as the Intronix LA1034 LogicPort (My opinion of course)   

Timing mode sample rate: 500MHz 
State mode sample rate:   200MHz 
and I think this is on all 34 channels at once 
$389 
Great triggering and decoding 

I just wish they up the sample memory 
unchanged since like 2005 

I have a Intronix LA1034 at work.

It has way, way too little sample memory. For me, at least, it's mostly useless.

[Zbig]

If it is like their older models, it samples all of the channels all of the time, so the max sample rate does not change. It just ignores the data that you don't want on the PC.

That's not (and wasn't ever) true for Logic16 ("1st Gen."): https://www.saleae.com/logic16/specs

[jeremy]

Sorry, I was talking about their first product, the original logic device. I should have been clearer. I have had mine for such a long time, well before the logic 16 was around  and it will always be the thing I think of when someone says "Saleae Logic".

[amyk]

4 channels for $99

From the samplerates the other ones don't look like they're FX2-based so they could be much better, but I wonder why they even bother to only use 4 channels from a $10 chip that can do up to 16 at 24MHz...

[nuhamind2]

up to 16at 24MHz...

They don't.They might be able to sample at that rate but not streaming it through the USB that fast.

[TiN]

Who measures noise with logic analyzer? Its weird how many people complain about bonus features (which are analog functions truly are in LA).

I'm thinking about getting Pro 8 as sometimes its really nice to carry small box which can do MCU debugging on serial buses just like 20kg Tek. Yes, price is little high, but hey, it can save countless days of debugging for digital folks.

[theatrus]

I was expecting a bit more as well. I'm all for a computer-based logic analyzer (more analysis capabilities than a scope, and less work to get it to a computer). I also have an original Salae and an Intronix, but neither is ideal.

Is there a fast, buffering, FPGA based logic analyzer with computer support out there?

[Len]

Who measures noise with logic analyzer? Its weird how many people complain about bonus features (which are analog functions truly are in LA).

It's not weird that people complain about "bonus" (?) features if they don't work well and add significantly to the cost. And measuring switching noise on digital lines sounds like it's exactly what I'd want to do with this thing, especially since you can trigger analog capture from a digital signal & vice versa. But I think the analog specs fall short of making it really useful. (I have a Saleae Logic and I think it's great as a cheap low-end LA.)

[Zbig]

It's not weird that people complain about "bonus" (?) features if they don't work well and add significantly to the cost. And measuring switching noise on digital lines sounds like it's exactly what I'd want to do with this thing, [..]

You'd have picked wrong tool for the job, then. As I see it, this feature is aimed at "high level", "digital building blocks" tinkerers. Like the Arduino and Raspberry Pi crowd who just might happen to deal with some analog light/temperature/whatever sensor they got from Sparkfun/Adafruit from time to time. And don't get me wrong, I don't mean that in the derogatory way. I don't see it being marketed as a serious low-level engineering tool feature.