New Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope based on Xilinx Zynq-7000 SoC architecture

[tautech]

There was no protective shipping film on mine.

Nearly all of the units I have ordered in the last few months came without a film on the LCD.
It is NOT some cheap plastic/acrylic screen that must be carefully protected, it is quality nonreflective glass.

I have never noticed any backlight bleed before ELKING mentioned it and only now after looking carefully like KingDD83 can I see it. Even then I did not notice it at first as the LCD frame reflection is what was seen first and only at wide angles when the display was difficult to interpret, so IMO the reflection is a non-issue.

For the backlight bleed it is more noticeable (if it is there and can be seen) at LOW light conditions when it would not advisable to use equipment for fear of making errors in connection....who would use a DSO like that anyway ? 

IMO in normal light (medium not bright) and use conditions it can not easily be seen, yes if you really look for it. 
I have checked 2 units only and as I dispatch every unit after some checks first we will watch for bad examples and hold them from dispatch if any are found.

Let's hope Dave still has a X-E production unit and can examine his to clear this up.
EDIT. Asked Dave to have a look at his unit.

[xrunner]

I have a Rigol DS1054Z and if I go to a menu where there is only one soft menu shown and the rest of the right side blank I can see the same sort of dim light. While it's very difficult to see exactly what you are seeing I haven't ever noticed it because the right side is usually full of bright menu choices

Don't worry about it. 

[krasimir.k]

Can somebody to measure the waveform capture rate?
Thanks in advance!

[rf-loop]

Can somebody to measure waveform capture rate?
Thanks in advance!

Later I will make whole table (as also previously made for SDS1000X(X+)

Only what I can now tell that it looks like average speed max is ~96kwfm/s (not peak speed but over 1s average)
Peak is perhaps bit more.  (note that at this time there is early generation FW: 5.1.3.8  )

Segmented memory speed is bit more complex to measure if we talk guaranteed max speed what means that with this speed it do not loose any trig event. But it is very clear maximum this kind of speed is least over 400kwfm/s. (> 400 ksegment/s)

These tables for 1000X/X+  can find here (page bottom)
Later coming same for X-E.

[TheDefpom]

I just added my initial review video for the SDS 1202X-E on my YT channel, this is part 1, another more detailed video (or 2) will follow.

https://youtu.be/64kxGDOg7es

A big thanks goes to Rob (TauTech) for lending me a unit to review, it is great being one of the first people to get my hands on one of these things!

[TK]

There was no protective shipping film on mine.

Nearly all of the units I have ordered in the last few months came without a film on the LCD.
It is NOT some cheap plastic/acrylic screen that must be carefully protected, it is quality nonreflective glass.

I have never noticed any backlight bleed before ELKING mentioned it and only now after looking carefully like KingDD83 can I see it. Even then I did not notice it at first as the LCD frame reflection is what was seen first and only at wide angles when the display was difficult to interpret, so IMO the reflection is a non-issue.

For the backlight bleed it is more noticeable (if it is there and can be seen) at LOW light conditions when it would not advisable to use equipment for fear of making errors in connection....who would use a DSO like that anyway ? 

IMO in normal light (medium not bright) and use conditions it can not easily be seen, yes if you really look for it. 
I have checked 2 units only and as I dispatch every unit after some checks first we will watch for bad examples and hold them from dispatch if any are found.

Let's hope Dave still has a X-E production unit and can examine his to clear this up.
EDIT. Asked Dave to have a look at his unit.

I have my scope on a shelf over the bench and use a desktop lamp to light only the PCB or DUT I am working on.  I think a lot of people use the scope in this same low light environment.

[boggis the cat]

It is clearly a defect and not a feature.

Nobody claimed it was a "feature".

Why not better ask siglent to recall and fix the scopes?

Because it may not be a big issue.  I wouldn't expect a cheap instrument to be built to the highest quality levels -- there is a trade-off required if you can't (or won't) pay the premium for high end products.

I would be more concerned about the controls than imperfect lighting at the screen edges.  That seems to be an area where some brands do a better job and the cheaper equipment tends to cut corners, and most people are going to be twiddling the knobs and pushing buttons a lot.

Have you ever seen the displays that Tektronix put on their expensive 'scopes?  I was working on a DPO on Friday, and wondering where they source them.  Some giant warehouse full of new old stock 1990s PDA displays?   

[TK]

It is clearly a defect and not a feature.

Nobody claimed it was a "feature".

Why not better ask siglent to recall and fix the scopes?

Because it may not be a big issue.  I wouldn't expect a cheap instrument to be built to the highest quality levels -- there is a trade-off required if you can't (or won't) pay the premium for high end products.

I would be more concerned about the controls than imperfect lighting at the screen edges.  That seems to be an area where some brands do a better job and the cheaper equipment tends to cut corners, and most people are going to be twiddling the knobs and pushing buttons a lot.

Have you ever seen the displays that Tektronix put on their expensive 'scopes?  I was working on a DPO on Friday, and wondering where they source them.  Some giant warehouse full of new old stock 1990s PDA displays?   

Let's see... if Siglent fixes it, it was a defect.  If they don't, then it is a feature (a distinctive attribute or aspect of something)

[tautech]

There was no protective shipping film on mine.

Nearly all of the units I have ordered in the last few months came without a film on the LCD.
It is NOT some cheap plastic/acrylic screen that must be carefully protected, it is quality nonreflective glass.

I have never noticed any backlight bleed before ELKING mentioned it and only now after looking carefully like KingDD83 can I see it. Even then I did not notice it at first as the LCD frame reflection is what was seen first and only at wide angles when the display was difficult to interpret, so IMO the reflection is a non-issue.

For the backlight bleed it is more noticeable (if it is there and can be seen) at LOW light conditions when it would not advisable to use equipment for fear of making errors in connection....who would use a DSO like that anyway ? 

IMO in normal light (medium not bright) and use conditions it can not easily be seen, yes if you really look for it. 
I have checked 2 units only and as I dispatch every unit after some checks first we will watch for bad examples and hold them from dispatch if any are found.

Let's hope Dave still has a X-E production unit and can examine his to clear this up.
EDIT. Asked Dave to have a look at his unit.

I have my scope on a shelf over the bench and use a desktop lamp to light only the PCB or DUT I am working on.  I think a lot of people use the scope in this same low light environment.

Sure but I bet quids you can't I'll eat my hat if you can see it in the Defpom's vid above. 

[ELKING]

Also, it has a bright edge but is less visible because the video is being recorded at an angle.

[stj]

i like the colour temperature thing, be good to see that added to the rigol.

infact a side-by-side comparison would be good.
similar price,
2 inputs vs 4, but twice the Mhz.

and just as i was looking to get a cheap DSO!

[TheDefpom]

The next video (which I already have done footage done for) will have a nice close up view of the unit, it fills the screen, so you will be able to see all the detail etc.

As far as a bright edge goes, I honestly didn't notice anything whilst using the unit, I'm not sure if it's really an issue, I will pay a bit closure attention and look for it when I next power it up to see if I notice it when looking for it.

[tautech]

The next video (which I already have done footage done for) will have a nice close up view of the unit, it fills the screen, so you will be able to see all the detail etc.

Thanks Scott, I think that's just what many want to see along with any possible UI lag of which there isn't, is there ? 

As far as a bright edge goes, I honestly didn't notice anything whilst using the unit, I'm not sure if it's really an issue, I will pay a bit closer attention and look for it when I next power it up to see if I notice it when looking for it.

If you can possibly add a link in your vid back to some preceding post in this thread where this is the first it's been discussed AFAIK. Then a viewer can read the discussion here and decide for themselves if it's an issue or not.

Looking forward to more details in the next one.

[boggis the cat]

Let's see... if Siglent fixes it, it was a defect.  If they don't, then it is a feature (a distinctive attribute or aspect of something)

According to whom?  That's a pretty weak straw man.

Do you expect the low end instruments to be exactly equivalent to the high end?  The poorest performing 'scopes I have come across lately were a Rigol (cheap, so I guess that's a trade off) and a Tektronix (very expensive, so very poor for the high cost).  Maybe the Tektronix has useful features that I don't delve into during calibration, or perhaps their after-sales support is far better, so they're still able to sell to commercial buyers.

Typically, in the past, expensive equipment from the big name brands had better documentation and support.  Support seems to be eroding over time, however, and you often can't even get calibration information for newer instruments easily.  The problem for the big brands in my view is that the cheap brands are starting to eat into the commercial market as they improve their service and support, while the big brands are getting pulled down by corporate mergers and restructures.

[TK]

Let's see... if Siglent fixes it, it was a defect.  If they don't, then it is a feature (a distinctive attribute or aspect of something)

According to whom?  That's a pretty weak straw man.

Do you expect the low end instruments to be exactly equivalent to the high end?  The poorest performing 'scopes I have come across lately were a Rigol (cheap, so I guess that's a trade off) and a Tektronix (very expensive, so very poor for the high cost).  Maybe the Tektronix has useful features that I don't delve into during calibration, or perhaps their after-sales support is far better, so they're still able to sell to commercial buyers.

Typically, in the past, expensive equipment from the big name brands had better documentation and support.  Support seems to be eroding over time, however, and you often can't even get calibration information for newer instruments easily.  The problem for the big brands in my view is that the cheap brands are starting to eat into the commercial market as they improve their service and support, while the big brands are getting pulled down by corporate mergers and restructures.

According to a potential customer that had the scope on the shopping cart but switched to a different brand.

[TheDefpom]

I have this unit powered up, and yes the right hand edge does have a very slight light increase, but it is barely noticeable , I have certainly seen much worse!

[boggis the cat]

According to a potential customer that had the scope on the shopping cart but switched to a different brand.

Is this yourself, or another member of 'The League of Unusually Discriminating Oscilloscope Display Connoisseurs"? 

 

Why is this "potential customer" being coy about the "different brand"?  And model.  If it were I making a mountain out of this then I'd state what I decided to buy instead.  (Presumably something with a better display.)

If the "different brand" is GW Instek, then I'd say that is a good alternative (although significantly costlier).  If the brand is Rigol, then I hope the "potential customer" is very patient, or doesn't need to change settings much. 

If what appears to be fairly normal minor issues with a display puts you off buying a 'scope, then you have unusual priorities.  If this was some type of media consumption device, then the display is much more important -- but would a minor display issue be a deal-breaker for most people? 

[stj]

a VGA/DVI port on the back would have been nice!
and not just on this scope, but all DSO's

plugging in a 17" monitor would mean not having to be so close to the scope to see small detail.

[TK]

a VGA/DVI port on the back would have been nice!
and not just on this scope, but all DSO's

plugging in a 17" monitor would mean not having to be so close to the scope to see small detail.

You can add VGA to Keysight scopes and most OWON DSOs had bundled VGA output for many years

[TK]

According to a potential customer that had the scope on the shopping cart but switched to a different brand.

Is this yourself, or another member of 'The League of Unusually Discriminating Oscilloscope Display Connoisseurs"? 

 

Why is this "potential customer" being coy about the "different brand"?  And model.  If it were I making a mountain out of this then I'd state what I decided to buy instead.  (Presumably something with a better display.)

If the "different brand" is GW Instek, then I'd say that is a good alternative (although significantly costlier).  If the brand is Rigol, then I hope the "potential customer" is very patient, or doesn't need to change settings much. 

If what appears to be fairly normal minor issues with a display puts you off buying a 'scope, then you have unusual priorities.  If this was some type of media consumption device, then the display is much more important -- but would a minor display issue be a deal-breaker for most people? 

Do you own this scope?

[hgjdwx]

micsig TO1000 have HDMI output

[zike]

Happy to see the more substantive evaluations/reviews over the weekend. My lab unit is just in from Saelig. First impressions:

Screen looks very good, certainly comparable contrast, sharpness & brightness to Keysights and Teks we have around here
(can't list all the models but some fairly recent).

Pulse rise time w/ sinc interpolation checks out at 1.62 ns with a tunnel diode pulser (< 100ps intrinsic).

It seems to bog down a little  (slight jerkiness in updates) when asking for onscreen measurements on 2 channels at timebases longer than 200 us/div (reporting more than 3.5 million points). I'm using a pseudorandom pulse generator as a test source, about 2kpps average.

Input menu offers channel input impedance of 50  . This is obviously a bug, selecting it does nothing. Menu must have been copied from another instrument.

Aside from this, having a hard time finding appreciable fault; looks like a solid scope with a pretty good user interface so far. I'll keep playing.

Cheers,

Mike

[nctnico]

Aside from this, having a hard time finding appreciable fault; looks like a solid scope with a pretty good user interface so far. I'll keep playing.

It takes far more rigorous and methodical testing than twiddling a few knobs to find the problems. Taking a scope through all it's functions and testing their limits takes a few days at least if you are setup for this kind of testing. You can't even capture that into a video. It would be several hours long!
If you look at messages from people who discover a bug the story usually goes as follows: I have this piece of equipment for a while already but now I want to use feature XYZ and it doesn't work as expected. Help!

[zike]

Aside from this, having a hard time finding appreciable fault; looks like a solid scope with a pretty good user interface so far. I'll keep playing.

It takes far more rigorous and methodical testing than twiddling a few knobs to find the problems. Taking a scope through all it's functions and testing their limits takes a few days at least if you are setup for this kind of testing. You can't even capture that into a video. It would be several hours long!
If you look at messages from people who discover a bug the story usually goes as follows: I have this piece of equipment for a while already but now I want to use feature XYZ and it doesn't work as expected. Help!

Wow, you're making me feel pretty special. I found one in the first 5 minutes! And it's only 11 pages into this thread!

[TheDefpom]

My more detailed Part 2 full review is now up on YT as well, check it out below:

https://youtu.be/laK1v2Zas4o