More New Siglents

[Wuerstchenhund]

Another hidden on the Siglent USA website:
http://siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1332

SDG2000X Series Function/Arbitrary Waveform Generators

1.2GS/s looks nice.

Edit: Also 16bits vertical resolution.

I, too, thought it looks nice, but then I found the spec sheet:
http://www.tequipment.net/assets/1/26/Siglent_SDG2000X_Datasheet-V1.0.pdf

It seems the 1.2GSa/s sampling rate drops down to 300MSa/s (DDS mode) or even a measly 75MSa/s in Arbitrary Waveform mode:



If that's correct then this is pretty poor, and quite frankly it raises some doubt over the 1.2GSa/s claim.

Primary-spec wise this is approaching the Agilent 336XXA series...

I'd say it's pretty far off, as the 33600A Series maintains their high sampling rate in Arbitrary mode, and the jitter is a lot lower (<1ps on the Keysight vs 150ps with the SDG2000X).

Plus the SDG20000X still comes with the horribly EasyWave editor which should have died a long time ago already.

But then, the Keysight 33600A Series is a lot more expensive, so I guess for the money the Siglent is probably ok if this time the firmware is actually mature, something Siglent failed on a regular basis.

[Siglent America]

Yes, the new SDG2000X series uses the main DDS running at 300 MHz but the D-A converter runs at 1.2 GSa/s so it does interpolate and smooth the output signal.
We have written a white-paper explaining the advantages of this type architecture, using both the time-domain and frequency-domain to analyze the advantages. I expect it will be available after August 28.
Steve

[Mark_O]

In my biased opinion, the SDS1000X is a beautiful scope and customers that have seen it at shows have seemed to agree. I have strong reason to believe that the firmware will be much more mature than was the SDS2000 when it was released.

I suspect you are correct, Steve.  If only because the firmware for the 1000X will simply be a variant of that for the SDS2000*.  So it will benefit from that improved starting point.  Hardware-wise, the new series appears to be basically a simplification and repackaging of the 2000, at a lower price-point.

[*there's no possible way that Siglent had the resources to do a new series from scratch.  and no real reason to do so.]

[Mark_O]

Can you disclose an approximate ballpark figure about how many Chinese/American software engineers are dedicated 100% on fixing the bugs in the firmware?

Probably 0.

That's not meant to be an insult, but rather an observation that companies with smaller dev teams rarely have anyone dedicated 100% to anything.

I like both Siglent and Rigol...  and I am convinced that both companies will eventually get to the level where new discovered bugs can be fixed within shorter time periods.

Perhaps.     But will it be in our lifetimes?   

[Mark_O]

After careful nomination, official Beta testers get free candy like factory sealed Siglent scopes and other shrinkwrapped test gear
I am not saying that this should apply to the high-end models, but it could apply to the sub 300-500 USD range.

Right.  Because expensive kit needs no testing.   

Come with a structured approach to report issues in a uniform way. Setup a bug tracking system for the official Beta testers, like ClearDDTS, Bugzilla. Follow up major findings, suggestions for improvements, UX issues and showstopper issues monthly in a limited group conference call.

Sounds lovely.  The problem being that all requires resources, which Siglent lacks.  It also presupposes that the core problem is lack of folks reporting bugs to Siglent.  Which I am pretty sure is NOT the case. 

[rf-loop]

  So it will benefit from that improved starting point.  Hardware-wise, the new series appears to be basically a simplification and repackaging of the 2000, at a lower price-point.

HW is very different least in front end including also ADC.  1000X series have true 500uV/div sensitivity. (not fake sensitivity as example in Rigol 1000Z  1mV/div what is just zoomed from  5mV/div  as also 2mV/div)  Siglent  SDS2000  have 2mV/div and it have fixed BW reject.
Hi-Res is not  box car averaging. It is more advanced ERES (but this is not HW thing). ( Teledyne explanation of differencies)
But, after end of this month perhaps mouth can open more.

[timofonic]

I'm an electronics student saving money to get an oscilloscope, so I consider all options.

Being a computer Linux geek and occasional bug reporter, bugs annoys me a lot.

Perhaps smaller companies can benefit having an Open Source firmware. They do interesting lower cost Hardware, but struggle to have a robust firmware and fixing the appearing bugs. This way, there could be external contributors providing fixes too.

After all, the company sell the hardware. The software is a "necessary evil", it's better if the code is reused and developed collaboratively to provide it in better quality.

[rf-loop]

Today Siglent new X  series  (X1000 oscilloscopes, X2000 TrueArb generators and X3000 power supplies) is officially launched. Launch date 28.08.2015)


SDS 1000X oscilloscopes http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1369&T=2&tid=1

SDG 2000X waveform generators   http://siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1364&T=2&tid=16

SPD 3303 X power supplies,  http://siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1393&T=2&tid=17

[nctnico]

Neat... they show a PAL TV signal on the SDS1000X. None of the TVs in my home uses that nowadays. 

[timofonic]

Neat... they show a PAL TV signal on the SDS1000X. None of the TVs in my home uses that nowadays. 

Not here too. Despite my country is underdeveloped, our TV system is all digital. Public TV channels are mostly low resolution, but I don't care because I mostly see stuff from Internet (and these days geek YouTube channels such as EEvBlog).

Anyway, maybe a nice way to show the analog capabilities. I hope the Chinese oscilloscope makers develop better firmwares and someday they realize making them Open Source may give them advantages over big brands (users fixing errors and adding extra features).

[Siglent America]

The new SDS1000X oscilloscopes do support HDTV triggering.
Steve

[nctnico]

Who uses analog HDTV? It's all digital nowadays with compressed data or raw data over gigabit links. Way outside the field where you would use a 100MHz or 200MHz scope.

[Siglent America]

For a BASEBAND HDTV signal, these scopes have plenty of bandwidth.

According to the Tektronix application note:
"The bandwidth of an HDTV signal, for example,
is typically 30 MHz. Therefore, an oscilloscope for HDTV
applications should have bandwidth of at least 150 MHz. "

[Wuerstchenhund]

Are there any reviews yet (you'd think they did send out their new kit to reviewers in advance so that reviews are available at market introduction)?

I could be interested in the SDG2122X but I'd like to see a bit more than just Siglent's promo video. I also wonder what built-in waveforms the SDG2000X offers (I honestly hope they have extended the built-in waveform repertoire, as the SDG1000 and SDG5000 were pretty sparse even compared what Rigol offers in the DG1000z).

I had a look at the manual and while the UI of the SDG2000X looks nice it also looks a bit toy-ish. Plus the manual states that despite the large display the SDG2000X can only display settings for a single channel at a time (Rigol's DG1000z can display both, with a smaller display!). The UI in the Siglent also doesn't seem to be customizable. 

Looks like missed opportunities.

[nctnico]

For a BASEBAND HDTV signal, these scopes have plenty of bandwidth.

According to the Tektronix application note:
"The bandwidth of an HDTV signal, for example,
is typically 30 MHz. Therefore, an oscilloscope for HDTV
applications should have bandwidth of at least 150 MHz. "

Now I'd like to see an actual circuit which uses HDTV... Analog TV has died over a decade ago. Look on Ebay and see how many TV pattern generators are for sale but don't get sold.

[Siglent America]

Are there any reviews yet (you'd think they did send out their new kit to reviewers in advance so that reviews are available at market introduction)?

I could be interested in the SDG2122X but I'd like to see a bit more than just Siglent's promo video. I also wonder what built-in waveforms the SDG2000X offers (I honestly hope they have extended the built-in waveform repertoire, as the SDG1000 and SDG5000 were pretty sparse even compared what Rigol offers in the DG1000z).

I had a look at the manual and while the UI of the SDG2000X looks nice it also looks a bit toy-ish. Plus the manual states that despite the large display the SDG2000X can only display settings for a single channel at a time (Rigol's DG1000z can display both, with a smaller display!). The UI in the Siglent also doesn't seem to be customizable. 

Looks like missed opportunities.

Wuerstchenhund,

I'm not aware of any reviews yet for the SDG2000X generator family. I am assuming they will start showing up fairly soon though.
Although I have used one at several shows I did not notice how many ARB waveforms were built in. There are 45-50 built-in ARBs on the SDG1000/5000 so I believe it will be at least this many. I will check plus we will have some units in house soon.

You are correct - the display on the SDG2000X is larger than on the DG1000Zs but it displays only one channel at a time. For what it's worth, you can see the color-coded tab for the other channel which shows its function, output impedance selection, Burst/Modulation/Sweep, etc.
Steve

[Wuerstchenhund]

I'm not aware of any reviews yet for the SDG2000X generator family. I am assuming they will start showing up fairly soon though.

I hope so.

Although I have used one at several shows I did not notice how many ARB waveforms were built in. There are 45-50 built-in ARBs on the SDG1000/5000 so I believe it will be at least this many. I will check plus we will have some units in house soon.

Would be great if you could check (it would be even better if it was listed somewhere, i.e. the manual, the datasheet or the website), as 45 to 50 sounds like it hasn't really improved over the SDG1000/5000 (i.e. the Rigol has 160, and many of them are more complex and real-world like signals).

You are correct - the display on the SDG2000X is larger than on the DG1000Zs but it displays only one channel at a time. For what it's worth, you can see the color-coded tab for the other channel which shows its function, output impedance selection, Burst/Modulation/Sweep, etc.

I know, I saw the screenshots in the user manual (and in a quite few of them the display area was pretty poorly utilized), and as I said it's a bit of a missed opportunity to make better use of such a comparably large display. What a shame, really.

[t3chiman]

Re: SDG2042X availability, as of August 28, TEquipment is estimating ship date as December 10. Looks like my gratification will be delayed ...

[tautech]

Re: SDG2042X availability, as of August 28, TEquipment is estimating ship date as December 10. Looks like my gratification will be delayed ...

Yes, I was told the first batch was quite small and the next production run was in September.
However sipping delays could easily add a month or more before they are available at resellers.

Steve @ Siglent America will have a better idea when they'll land in quanties in the US.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Yes, I was told the first batch was quite small and the next production run was in September.
However sipping delays could easily add a month or more before they are available at resellers.

If that's true then this is worrysome as it looks like the SDS2000 introduction all over again. 

Seriously, this isn't the smart phone market where people are willing to wait for the latest i-gadget. Test instruments are normally bought when needed, so as a manufacturer when you come out with a new product you better make sure sufficient stock is available for launch day or your competitors get the business. So far the new Siglent products don't look too bad but they're nothing groundbreaking, and especially the SDS1000X will already have it very difficult against the Rigol DS1000z since the latter is a 4-channel scope, and delay in getting the product out there will make it even harder for Siglent to compete when the Rigol DS1000z is readily available anywhere.

A shipping date of December for a product introduced at the end of August is just embarrassing. 

You'd think that Siglent had learnt their lesson with the SDS2000 (which was a more attractive product in its segment than the SDS1000X is in the bottom-of-the-barrel class), and the fact that they did again miss what is pretty basic marketing doesn't instill much confidence that they didn't learn from the other mistake which was the bug-ridden firmware.

[Siglent America]

It appears that the new SDG2000X generators have the same ARB functions as the SDG5000 series.
Steve

[nctnico]

You'd think that Siglent had learnt their lesson with the SDS2000 (which was a more attractive product in its segment than the SDS1000X is in the bottom-of-the-barrel class)

I agree. It don't see why Siglent spend effort on yet another two channel low end scope while their potential killer oscilloscope still doesn't work 

[rf-loop]

You'd think that Siglent had learnt their lesson with the SDS2000 (which was a more attractive product in its segment than the SDS1000X is in the bottom-of-the-barrel class)

I agree. It don't see why Siglent spend effort on yet another two channel low end scope while their potential killer oscilloscope still doesn't work 

SDS2000 there is some funtions not ready. But, example I use SDS2304 in everyday use and I have not meet problems in my use.  Yes I know Hig-Res works still today only very limited but this I do not need at all in my peronal use and roll mode do not have peak detect what is exactly zero value in my personal needs. What all I need works perfect. Even better what I hope when I buy it.  Specially up to 400k segments (waveforms)/s segmented acquire speed works like charm and also full speed mask test. Also I need not worry and always check if sinc function destroy real data from signal as it do in riglol.
 
But, this is my individual use and needs.

Overall for all kinds of use it is sad to say it is still waiting major class FW update.
I think even it is better if Siglent open they mouth and honest tell what all bugs they know and what they are doing.  If they open this it is perhaps risk but I believe with opening this "secrets box" they may rescue and win something.  Least customers some trust is perhaps possible rescue, if they honest tell with enough details what is going on.

[nctnico]

For that kind of use an old Tek TDS500/700 series is more than sufficient. No need to spend a whole lot of cash. Try to use decoding on the SDS2000 (not to mention decoding on the digital channels). Or use the cursors. Or triggering on a specific CAN message. Or various functions at the same time. As soon as you drive the SDS2000 in the more advanced features it is a big let down. I'm close to needing anger management therapy to restrain myself not to throw it out of the window. Fortunately a replacement oscilloscope is on the way and my SDS2000 can go.

[Wuerstchenhund]

It appears that the new SDG2000X generators have the same ARB functions as the SDG5000 series.

Well, that's very disappointing. 

But thanks for checking.