EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Carrington on June 26, 2013, 01:05:45 pm
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The best I found, obviously there are better, but not at this price: :)
- Extremely large event memory (512 megabit)
- Real-time hardware data compression
- Up to 400 MHz sample speed
- Up to 16 inputs, futher expandable by linking more analyzers together using synchronization header Windows and Linux
- Flexible trigger options
- "Logic probe" mode
- Controlled and powered by USB (High-Speed, 480 Mbps)
- Advanced software (for Windows and Linux)
- Function generator
http://www.asix.net/tools/dbg_omega.htm (http://www.asix.net/tools/dbg_omega.htm)
ASIX offers other interesting products, unfortunately I think they are not well known.
I hope that thanks to this forum stop being not well known. :)
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And ?
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and ?
is this an Ad ? Or product review ? Or just copy/paste from their web ? What did you want to say by posting it ?
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and ?
is this an Ad ? Or product review ? Or just copy/paste from their web ? What did you want to say by posting it ?
Just I want share, make it known. I have one, and I love it.
You already knew the existence of this product?
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No, I didn´t know it anything about it, though it surprised me it is developed and produced in Czech republic, which is my fellow neighbour country. But I would have expected a little more information in your post... so it doesn´t look like an Ad from facebook and we´re suppose to click on "LIKE" button somewhere...
So... if you like it, post more info about it. Get it, make a review. This is EEV forum afterall.
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Yes, maybe later.
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and ?
is this an Ad ? Or product review ? Or just copy/paste from their web ? What did you want to say by posting it ?
Just I want share, make it known. I have one, and I love it.
I'm not convinced I like the look of the software - looks like a version 1.0 to me ;-)
(http://www.asix.net/tools/img/sigma2_view_697x427.png)
A review would be great perhaps showing the software in action and perhaps give the reasons why you picked this one over the others.
[edit]
In my book a nice UI is just as important as the hardware; here's a pic of more colorful way to do it.
(http://www.bitscope.com/news/img/57.png)
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Exactly. I am currently looking at an LA, but tend to prefer the Intronix Logicport. I have played around with their software and operation is really nice (using the stored demo signals provided). The Logicport also does CAN bus decoding, which for me is a really nice feature for future projects.
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lol - also you can't just change your post text from this..
The best I found,
to ..
The best I found, obviously there are better, but not at this price: :)
as it makes poor "rkupka" look like he has an attitude problem when you read his replies to your edited post text! ;-)
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In my book a nice UI is just as important as the hardware; here's a pic of more colorful way to do it.
Now to me, that looks just the same, except somebody let the art people out again...
lol - also you can't just change your post text from this..
to ..
as it makes poor "rkupka" look like he has an attitude problem when you read his replies to your edited post text! ;-)
Oh, I hate that! When I edit my posts, I always make sure you can tell what edit was made so I don't make someone look like a dick.
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I'd prefer a UI which works well over a crappy 'Christmas tree'. I must say the Bitscope display looks cleverly designed though.
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Apologies, is not my intention to embarrass anyone. I edited because I thought it would be convenient.
The software is not very colorful, but for me that's not important.
Make a review? On its website is quite well documented. As I said, I only want to make it known.
And: "To taste colors". Each of us has different needs.
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Make a review? On its website is quite well documented. As I said, I only want to make it known
Uh huh...
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Oh. How nicely handled, Carrington. Well done.
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Apologies, is not my intention to embarrass anyone. I edited because I thought it would be convenient.
The software is not very colorful, but for me that's not important.
Make a review? On its website is quite well documented. As I said, I only want to make it known.
And: "To taste colors". Each of us has different needs.
But the manufacturer review will always talk how good their instrument his, and that it spits rainbows and unicorns over the competition, but an independent review will not be biased (at least it shouldn't)....
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Uh huh...
Are those grunts of a wild animal? In that case I'm sorry I do not speak your language.
Oh. How nicely handled, Carrington. Well done.
If you say it with sarcasm, then I think that c4757p was wrong. You don't look like a dick.
But the manufacturer review will always talk how good their instrument his, and that it spits rainbows and unicorns over the competition, but an independent review will not be biased (at least it shouldn't)....
It seems that not only have I found a lot of funny boys.
Believe me, everything he says about this instrument on their website is true.
Unlike others manufacturers this is honest.
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Maybe from your point of view but there are always nit-pickers who find flaws. Lots of people like the Logicscope while I have had nothing but trouble with it and wouldn't buy a logic analyser with only 2k of memory... >:D
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Maybe from your point of view but there are always nit-pickers who find flaws. Lots of people like the Logicscope while I have had nothing but trouble with it and wouldn't buy a logic analyser with only 2k of memory... >:D
You're absolutely right. :)
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ASIX offers other interesting products, unfortunately I think they are not well known.
I hope that thanks to this forum stop being not well known. :)
Their PRESTO programmer is excellent - very fast and all sorts of useful options for serialisation, one-button programming etc. Probably the best device programmer software I've used.
They were also very helpful when I needed support for a fairly new PIC -it was added in a few days.
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Uh huh...
Are those grunts of a wild animal? In that case I'm sorry I do not speak your language.
I was pointing out how to us, people who do not know you personally, see that you don't have a whole lot of posts here and now appear to be promoting a product under the auspices of being the average guy that found a product they liked, but when pressed for more information you appear more like you're just a representative of said company and trying to sneak in free clicks.
Now if you had said "Hello, I work for XYZ corporation and we have a product which we think offers a great value when compared to similar products and would like for you guys to comment on it."
That might have met with more positive and constructive comments.
This may very well be an excellent product but I think the somewhat deceptive seeming posts you made caused a negative opinion by people who probably won't even look at it now.
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Onethingi always find funny with these kind of logic analyser doohickeys is that they claim absurd capabilities.
400MHz ... With those stupid idc connectors and flatcables ? Once you hit that kind of speed you need to start looking at a bit more exotic connectors like Mictors.
Not a peep about trigger levels.. Signals at that speed are not ttl anymore... They may even be differential.
Not a peep about triggering capabilities. From what i can tell this is just another streamer....
512 megaBIT 16 channels ... 32 megasamples per channel. Ok not bad.
User interface is poor. See the post of the other ui. Lack of list view, lack of analog display , markers, lots of other things.
A lot of these cheapo thingies are kludged together by people who have never used nor seen a real logic analyser user interface. Real analysers let you create multiple viewports into the same datapool. Each viewport can be different, it can be waveform , bus format, analog , table, bus decod ; and if the machine really has balls : inverse assembly or even sourcecode through an OMF link.
According to its specification this thingie should be capable of hooking up to something relatively simple like a pci bus running at 66MHz . In practice it will be introducing so much loadon the bus that the bus becomes unreliable. Then the dilemma is : you are trying to debug a problem with a piece of equipment that causes problems....
These things are toys. Nothing more. Not until they get more advanced trigger capabilites (like sequential trigger) and get a way better user interface. From a hardware perspective they also need a better probing interface.
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They seem to support GNU/Linux for their products! :-+ :-+ :-+
Alexander.
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400MHz ... With those stupid idc connectors and flatcables ? Once you hit that kind of speed you need to start looking at a bit more exotic connectors like Mictors.
Agreed.
Not a peep about trigger levels.. Signals at that speed are not ttl anymore... They may even be differential.
Yep, just a simple 74LVC245 input buffer with a fixed threshold (probably about 2V) according to the manual.
Not a peep about triggering capabilities. From what i can tell this is just another streamer....
Either they just added it, or you missed it. From their website:
Many various triggering options in the 16 inputs/200 MHz mode:
- Any value or edge on any input condition
- Defined duration of the condition ("longer than" and/or "shorter than")
- Sequence of two different conditions
- 16-bit counter - triggering after N-th occurence of the condition
- Extensive condition definition options using logical functions (N)AND,(N)OR,(N)XOR
Standard triggering options in the 8 inputs/400 MHz mode - triggering on the input signal edge.
Apart from the basic 400 MHz triggering, this seems quite decent, although not at the same level as the HP logic analyzers with their state machines.
A lot of these cheapo thingies are kludged together by people who have never used nor seen a real logic analyser user interface. Real analysers let you create multiple viewports into the same datapool. Each viewport can be different, it can be waveform , bus format, analog , table, bus decod ; and if the machine really has balls : inverse assembly or even sourcecode through an OMF link.
Inverse assembly? How many designs with an external memory bus are you going to troubleshoot with this kind of device?
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Inverse assembly? How many designs with an external memory bus are you going to troubleshoot with this kind of device?
Since you can gang a few of these together i was hoping to hook ten or so together to probe a 80486 running at 100MHz and follow the boot process >:D
Here is a simple, stupid test case.
Teka an i2c bus. 5 volt 400khz.' Old skool'
Please analyser : trigger on a missing acknowledge. Any missing acknowledge.
See if it can do that.
The trigger script is easy :
If scl=1 and falling(sda) then arm
If armed : count 8 falling edges of scl then check sda. If low : trigger.
This is a trivial task that even the cheapest onehung low logic oscilloscopes can do.
None of streamers can cope with that.
These things are toys. You can frequently pick up a big iron analyser for a few 100$. I got a 16900 for 200$ ... When i get back i will post a teardown of a real analyser. It'l become painfully obvious then that these usb boxes are not worthy of the name analyser.
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A mini teardown. :)
Note: Sigma image belongs to an old version.
http://sigrok.org/wiki/ASIX_SIGMA (http://sigrok.org/wiki/ASIX_SIGMA)
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More information about how the generator works:
OMEGA has its 16 inputs divided into two ports, first port is Input 1-8 and second port is Input 9-16. Each port has individual output enable, therefore 8 inputs can be turned into outputs. Function Generator can work on one of these ports.
The parrern to generate is entered from a file in text format.
The file would look like something like this:
0us 00000001
1us 00000010
2us 00000100
3us loop
Each line contains absolute time, from beginning (first line must contain time zero). In second column are pin states, they can be in binary format (always 8 chars), hexadecimal (always 2 chars) or octal (3 chars). Output "T" (as tristate) means that the port is input at this time.
Last line will have "end" or "loop", depending wheather the pattern should be repeated infinitely or performed only once.
The function generator can be started by button in test window or by a trigger (including GO button).
Maximum length of generated pattern is somewhat more than one second or 4096 lines (when delay between lines is not more than 2.56us).
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Here is a simple, stupid test case.
Teka an i2c bus. 5 volt 400khz.' Old skool'
Please analyser : trigger on a missing acknowledge. Any missing acknowledge.
See if it can do that.
The trigger script is easy :
If scl=1 and falling(sda) then arm
If armed : count 8 falling edges of scl then check sda. If low : trigger.
From the specs it sounds like it should. I don't have access to one of these to actually test, but they claim that you can define a condition using boolean logic and any input state or edge, and that you can string two conditions together. No argument that a 16900 has more triggering features, however.
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These things are toys. You can frequently pick up a big iron analyser for a few 100$. I got a 16900 for 200$ ... When i get back i will post a teardown of a real analyser. It'l become painfully obvious then that these usb boxes are not worthy of the name analyser.
Have you looked at the Open Logic Sniffer with Demon Core FPGA? It offers many of the features found in an HP 16500 / 16550 timing logic analyzer. Its open source and I know that the sigrok.org project is working on an improved more portable (as in portable between different vendor fpgas) version of this analyzer.
http://www.mygizmos.org/ols/Logic-Sniffer-FPGA-Spec.pdf (http://www.mygizmos.org/ols/Logic-Sniffer-FPGA-Spec.pdf)
Maybe one day there will be an inexpensive USB 3.0 analyzer that can match the HP 16900 with the added benefit that it would fit in my pocket.
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I know that the sigrok.org project is working on an improved more portable (as in portable between different vendor fpgas) version of this analyzer.
I would not count on anything from the sigrok project. They promise a lot and deliver very little. Every other day or so they "add" a device, and claim they will support it at some time in the future.
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free_electron:
1) 400MHz is not the same as 400MSPS.
2) The important thing is the rise time.
The habit does not make the monk. ;)
Eh for a logic analyser it is. If you claim 400MHz this means i can apply a 400MHz clock and datastream and the analyser should be able to follow. This is basic state mode operation. State mode is the most important mode. In timing mode the analyser uses its own sampling clock and goes even harder so you can study things like setup and hold time violations.
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Carrington is right. Most high end logic analysers have a specification for external clock mode and internal clock mode. The internal clock can be very high but the max. external clock frequency is usually much lower. And the probes may have a much lower bandwidth as well which isn't a problem; even though the bandwidth is low compared to the internal sampling clock (which can be several GHz) you'd still be able to see differences in timing.
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Exactly. I am currently looking at an LA, but tend to prefer the Intronix Logicport. I have played around with their software and operation is really nice (using the stored demo signals provided). The Logicport also does CAN bus decoding, which for me is a really nice feature for future projects.
I have an Intronix Logicport and can say that the UI on it is pretty solid. I do not get warm fuzzies looking at the UI for this Omega product.
They also have a better selection of interpreters, which is a big one for me.
On a side note - I think I may be at least partially responsible for there being CAN support on the Logicport - I harassed the company about it a few times and then they asked me for some example data, and then a little while after that there was CAN support! The Logicport is really a perfect device except for the high price and somewhat limited memory.
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Exactly. I am currently looking at an LA, but tend to prefer the Intronix Logicport. I have played around with their software and operation is really nice (using the stored demo signals provided). The Logicport also does CAN bus decoding, which for me is a really nice feature for future projects.
I have an Intronix Logicport and can say that the UI on it is pretty solid. I do not get warm fuzzies looking at the UI for this Omega product.
They also have a better selection of interpreters, which is a big one for me.
On a side note - I think I may be at least partially responsible for there being CAN support on the Logicport - I harassed the company about it a few times and then they asked me for some example data, and then a little while after that there was CAN support! The Logicport is really a perfect device except for the high price and somewhat limited memory.
How often and under what circumstances do you find the memory to be limited? When it is limited, what are the practical implications for your use? Thx
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Exactly. I am currently looking at an LA, but tend to prefer the Intronix Logicport. I have played around with their software and operation is really nice (using the stored demo signals provided). The Logicport also does CAN bus decoding, which for me is a really nice feature for future projects.
I have an Intronix Logicport and can say that the UI on it is pretty solid. I do not get warm fuzzies looking at the UI for this Omega product.
They also have a better selection of interpreters, which is a big one for me.
On a side note - I think I may be at least partially responsible for there being CAN support on the Logicport - I harassed the company about it a few times and then they asked me for some example data, and then a little while after that there was CAN support! The Logicport is really a perfect device except for the high price and somewhat limited memory.
How often and under what circumstances do you find the memory to be limited? When it is limited, what are the practical implications for your use? Thx
Well, a couple times I haven't had a good way of triggering on an event (would need it to trigger on the interpreter, which is an uncommon function that it lacks, but most LAs lack it so I'm not too upset). So I do large captures and just try to find my event in the capture. Sometimes there's just too much traffic and it fills up your buffer. It's only been a limitation once or twice, but it has happened.
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I would not count on anything from the sigrok project. They promise a lot and deliver very little. Every other day or so they "add" a device, and claim they will support it at some time in the future.
This, exactly this, is why we in the sigrok project don't participate more on the EEVblog forums. Life is just too short to waste it arguing with forum warriors. Insults and clueless opinions don't add up to meaningful discussion.
A glance at sigrok.org would have led you to this blog post (http://www.sigrok.org/blog/releasing-everything), less than two months old, announcing a release with finished support for dozens of devices. Since then, we've added three drivers in git, and a fourth one will go in today.
Many people here can benefit from what we do at sigrok, and many have. We've also seen many contributions from EEVblog forum members, and indeed we welcome teardowns, protocol descriptions, and documentation of all sorts -- the sort of thing that a lot of people frequenting the testgear forum are into.
Cynicism is easy, and sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. I don't know why the EEVblog moderators put up with your constant putdowns and negativity, but I find it hard to see the value in it.
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Hello biot!
I hope that the sigrok project still progressing more and more.
As far as I can, which is not much, I've been following the sigrok project.
"Life is just too short to waste it arguing with forum warriors. Insults and clueless opinions don't add up to meaningful discussion."
As in all places: The man and his iniquity. :palm:
You can count on my full support.
Cheers.
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This, exactly this, is why we in the sigrok project don't participate more on the EEVblog forums. Life is just too short to waste it arguing with forum warriors. Insults and clueless opinions don't add up to meaningful discussion.
Everyone can go to your website, check the list of devices you have there and compare the list to what you actually deliver. You have whole categories, like "Thermometer", where you haven't delivered support for any listed device. Not even all devices you list in your core category are supported.
And why a logic analyzer project needs to branch out into general data acquisitions another question. Esp. before supporting all promised devices, and when there is an established data acquisition project http://www.comedi.org/. (http://www.comedi.org/.)
By the way, thanks for clarifying your communication policy.
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Their PRESTO programmer is excellent - very fast and all sorts of useful options for serialisation, one-button programming etc. Probably the best device programmer software I've used.
They were also very helpful when I needed support for a fairly new PIC -it was added in a few days.
Hi mikeselectricstuff!
On the outside OMEGA and PRESTO look the same, I wonder if the inside too.
Maybe you can make a mini teardonw here. Thanks.
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Examples of measured waveforms:
http://www.asix.net/tools/dwnld_sigma-omega_examples.htm (http://www.asix.net/tools/dwnld_sigma-omega_examples.htm)
OMEGA - documents, software, drivers:
http://www.asix.net/tools/dbg_omega_download.htm (http://www.asix.net/tools/dbg_omega_download.htm)
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Onethingi always find funny with these kind of logic analyser doohickeys is that they claim absurd capabilities.
400MHz ... With those stupid idc connectors and flatcables ? Once you hit that kind of speed you need to start looking at a bit more exotic connectors like Mictors.
Not a peep about trigger levels.. Signals at that speed are not ttl anymore... They may even be differential.
Not a peep about triggering capabilities. From what i can tell this is just another streamer....
512 megaBIT 16 channels ... 32 megasamples per channel. Ok not bad.
User interface is poor. See the post of the other ui. Lack of list view, lack of analog display , markers, lots of other things.
A lot of these cheapo thingies are kludged together by people who have never used nor seen a real logic analyser user interface. Real analysers let you create multiple viewports into the same datapool. Each viewport can be different, it can be waveform , bus format, analog , table, bus decod ; and if the machine really has balls : inverse assembly or even sourcecode through an OMF link.
According to its specification this thingie should be capable of hooking up to something relatively simple like a pci bus running at 66MHz . In practice it will be introducing so much loadon the bus that the bus becomes unreliable. Then the dilemma is : you are trying to debug a problem with a piece of equipment that causes problems....
These things are toys. Nothing more. Not until they get more advanced trigger capabilites (like sequential trigger) and get a way better user interface. From a hardware perspective they also need a better probing interface.
Hi free_electron,
Kind of resurrecting an old thread (that was linked to by a newer LA thread)...
I can tell you are a LA Pro's Pro so your insight would be great to have here.... have you had any chance to use the Intronix LogicPort (or their software which is the real thing downloadable for demos)? Any thoughts you have on the Intronix would be cool to hear.
Thanks, EF
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Free_electron is right. I should have written 400Msa/s instead of 400MHz sample speed, because it can cause confusion, sorry.
The user interface, IMHO is acceptable, I've seen worse.
A toy? Obviously is not a TLA. But it is portable, and it have protocol decoders.
I only miss a variable threshold pod or or something similar.