Author Topic: Oscilloscope selection for Office  (Read 2893 times)

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Offline yashrk

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Oscilloscope selection for Office
« on: January 11, 2018, 12:12:04 am »
Hey Guys, I have few questions.  :-BROKE

1. I am confused between two scopes series of Keysight 3000 and the 4000 series except for the bigger size screen what is the difference?  :-//

2. I am looking for a scope with a minimum of 500MHz B.W. (with the option to upgrade to 1GHz if needed) and 4 channels with the serial debugging option.
   
    I am looking to buy either MSO3054 OR MSO4054 (depending on the answer to the first question)

    or R&S HMO3054

    or TEK MDO3054

All with serial decoding.
I am working in automobile embedded field and I need the device to debug embedded systems which are used in engine testing.

Thank you guys in advance  :-+
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Offline 0xfede

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 04:12:43 am »
Hello yashrk,

the 4000x series reach 1.5GHZ on the most powerful model, has the USB2.0 signal quality test options and of course the bigger screen.
On page 3 of this pdf http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5990-6619EN.pdf you can find the table with all the differences.

Hope this help.
0xfede
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Offline yashrk

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 05:15:44 am »
Which oscilloscope do you prefer between these 3 oscilloscope ?
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Online nctnico

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2018, 05:25:35 am »
There is no good choice here. R&S: small screen, Tektronix: slow user interface, Keysight: short memory.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline 0xfede

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2018, 05:43:12 am »
The Tektronix MDO3000 is slow and unpleasant to use, it has a fair amount of memory (10Mpts IIRC) and could not perform spectrum while working in time domain and viceversa. The SA part is not that powerful.
The MSO3000T is a very fast scope with a nice interface but I cannot justify the max 4Mpts of memory interleaved, it is just too small (@ 5GSample/s it is just 800us of data).
I don't know how the R&S HMO performs, never had the occasion to try one.

Personally I would not choose any of these DSO but if in need I'll take the Keysight.

Since these devices are expensive I suggest you to ask for a demo unit and try it.


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Offline rsjsouza

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Offline yashrk

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2018, 06:29:37 am »
Considering the same (or lower) price range which oscilloscope will you suggest
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2018, 06:41:08 am »
I am not familiar with LeCroys, but it seems to have the least compromise among the candidates. If it is possible to ask for a demo unit from some or all manufacturers, that would be absolutely critical to make such decision.

I personally like Keysight's responsiveness and overall features, but the small buffer is a turnoff for what I do.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline yashrk

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 06:46:22 am »
Spec wise Lecroys is better but Lecroys is not hugh in India and may be my company might not go for it.
I don't see other option other than Keysight for me
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Online nctnico

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2018, 06:49:31 am »
Wavesurfer 3054 perhaps?
http://teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/oscilloscopemodel.aspx?modelid=8558&capid=102&mid=504
According to Jportici this one is also dog slow. And like every Lecroy: no peak detect and that will bite you in the ass sooner or later.

Personally I'm waiting for Keysight and/or Tektronix to release new oscilloscopes based on faster platforms. Currently there is nothing out there which offers a significant upgrade over what I have now.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline yashrk

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2018, 07:01:27 am »
How about Rigol MSO 4054 ?
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Online mk_

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2018, 07:09:37 am »


    or TEK MDO3054


Well, using the TEK MDO3054 in a smal lab while also using some LeCroys at customers site - do not buy the MDO if your budget allows.

Using oscilloscops since 40 years I haven`t seen such a stupid, slow UI on a unit with such a large pricetag... 

on the other side - you are located in India, so - please don`t get me wrong - I assume that upgrading the MDO1014 form only 4 chanels and nothing else  to a MDO3054 with all options (decoding, SA, Logicanalyser etc) with the help of a little phytonscript found somewere here on eevblog could be a good option...

Michael

 

 

Offline yashrk

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2018, 07:15:03 am »


    or TEK MDO3054


Well, using the TEK MDO3054 in a smal lab while also using some LeCroys at customers site - do not buy the MDO if your budget allows.

Using oscilloscops since 40 years I haven`t seen such a stupid, slow UI on a unit with such a large pricetag... 

on the other side - you are located in India, so - please don`t get me wrong - I assume that upgrading the MDO1014 form only 4 chanels and nothing else  to a MDO3054 with all options (decoding, SA, Logicanalyser etc) with the help of a little phytonscript found somewere here on eevblog could be a good option...

Michael

 




I would of thought of doing that  :-DD if it was my personal scope but it's for my work and my company is German so I don't think that will go well with our management
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Online mk_

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2018, 07:55:47 am »

I would of thought of doing that  :-DD if it was my personal scope but it's for my work and my company is German so I don't think that will go well with our management

:-)

Then your german company should buy you a LeCroy HDO6104 with the required options - forget the pricetag... it`s worth the money. Be sure to buy the dual screen option...

Beside a nasty display-bug where Teledyne/Lecroy Austria and Germany are not willing to support any kind of fixing (They decied to ignore my customer after several mails, even when they accepted that it is a really ugly bug) it it is one of the best oscilloscopes I ever used.

Michael
 

Online TheSteve

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2018, 08:01:30 am »
Keep in mind that if you buy the Keysight 500 MHz scope the upgrade to 1 GHz is a replacement of the mainboard - there is no software/firmware upgrade. The Keysight is also very nice to use - I recommend it if the memory won't be a problem for you.
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2018, 08:17:25 am »
How about Rigol MSO 4054 ?
I have a Rigol DS4014 which works well for my needs. It has some minor UI bugs but I did not run into any decoding problems. The product line is limited to 500MHz, thus this may be a killer factor for you. I would say that, if the price is right, it is a good purchase for the hobbyist.

In your case, however, I suspect you would reduce the risk with the long term support and warranty of a more established brand. Also, you can bring the corporative power to the table and negotiate with the multiple vendors from a better position than, say, a hobbyist.

Your company is from Germany, where LeCroy is well known but perhaps they may have a soft spot for R&S - nctnico's point about LeCroy is a good one, although some may disagree (there are dozens of discussions about this subject on the forum - just search for "peak detect LeCroy").
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Offline Neganur

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2018, 08:18:26 pm »
From memory, 3k vs 4k Keysight: 2-ch Arbgen and integrated LAN. Some options.
 

Offline yashrk

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2018, 12:25:30 am »
If I am going for LeCroy, how about 4054A-MS or WaveSurfer 510?
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Offline 0xfede

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2018, 12:50:12 am »
I never had a Lecroy scope but IMHO the MAUI touch interface is beautiful. Then the HDO4054 with 12 bit of vertical resolution (but 8.6 ENOB) seems a great device but again, I had never played with it.

Maybe you should provide some infos like:
What's the primary use of your MSO?
What do you plan to do with it?
Are you sure that you need an MSO or maybe a DSO + logic analyzer is better?

Best,
0xfede
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2018, 04:19:00 am »
As 0xfede mentioned, the two models you mentioned differ from the presence of the integrated logic analyzer, therefore you will need to carefully consider if this is preferred instead of, say, extra bandwidth. 

On paper the HDO4054 seems to be a better oscilloscope, but not having used these models I can't tell anything about their practical aspects. The 510 seems to be a single-man-band and not part of a family of products, thus it may either be on the verge of being discontinued/replaced.

On paper all three (including the Wavesurfer 3000) use the highly regarded MAUI interface (which is quite awesome in my experience as well), but as nctnico mentioned (and some older threads mentioned) the Wavesurfer 3000 seems to have been full of bugs when it was released. It seems there are no recent reports of users of this model. One thing that may contribute to the issues seen then is the fact the Wavesurfer 3000 is not manufactured by LeCroy, thus the processing power may have been underestimated. 
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline yashrk

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2018, 05:13:48 am »
510 has a option to get serial decoding I checked that with their local distributor. I am actually thinking to final the lecroy scope I am just waiting for the quote from the lecroy then just pass the final decision to my boss between Keysight and LeCroy 4054 any way it's win win for me
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Offline Neganur

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2018, 06:07:53 am »
How about an S-series from Keysight btw? (I have an DSOS104A for sale)
 

Online tautech

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2018, 07:13:12 am »
On paper all three (including the Wavesurfer 3000) use the highly regarded MAUI interface (which is quite awesome in my experience as well), but as nctnico mentioned (and some older threads mentioned) the Wavesurfer 3000 seems to have been full of bugs when it was released. It seems there are no recent reports of users of this model. One thing that may contribute to the issues seen then is the fact the Wavesurfer 3000 is not manufactured by LeCroy, thus the processing power may have been underestimated.
The WS3000 was a joint venture between LeCroy and Siglent with LeCroy having strong input into the design and firmware. Western market rights are LeCroy's and the Siglent variant is sold in China as the SDS3000 series with models to 1 GHz.
http://www.siglent.com/oscilloscope/SDS3000

Member Wuerstchenhund (now banned) had much positive to say of WS3000 in this class of instrument.
Plenty of info on the forum, hunt it out.  ;)

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Offline ivonenand

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2018, 08:05:03 am »
Hi,
I for one cannot recommend you the WS3000, though I have to point out that I have not used other scopes you're considering. We have the 350MHz model with some decoding options and the waveform generator. Lecroy has sales quite often and we got this model for a reduced price and with (some) free options. It's a nice scope, looks the business, but it's really slow and can get unresponsive to the point where it's drives you mad if you have to work on it for more than 5 minutes.

If you have just the basic main screen and you're capture waveforms, it actually works great and quite fast. As soon as you add measurements to one of the channels (like frequency), the speed drop is really big. If you add a more advanced trigger, or add any of the math functions... the scope get's painfully slow, up to the point that you have to wait for a few seconds just for it to respond to a knob turn or a touch on the display.

I don't know about other scopes, but this one does all of the measurements in software, without any FPGA acceleration. It's an Windows Embedded based scope. I don't know what processor it's using, but LeCroy really should have spent more on the CPU as it's the main bottleneck. If they only spent an extra 20$ on a more decent CPU, this would have really been a killer scope.

Hope that helped narrow down the choice for you,
Regards
 
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Offline Jwalling

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Re: Oscilloscope selection for Office
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2018, 10:02:56 pm »

Member Wuerstchenhund (now banned)

I didn't know that.  :-- That sucks, I always enjoyed his posts...
Jay

System error. Strike any user to continue.
 
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