Overview of the Tektronix MSO58 8-Channel 6.25GS/s 2GHz Mixed-Signal Scope

[TNorthover]

To stay on the bright side of advocating for the product i'm proud of the positive things he did say... 

Your response to being accused of cherry-picking is even more blatant cherry-picking? 

[KE5FX]

It's also has the highest waveform capture rate (>500,000 wfms/sec) scope on the market with vertical resolution higher than an 8-bit ADC. (other 10-bit or 12-bit scopes don't specify capture rate and are under 1,000 wfms/sec)

This is a pretty big deal, if it's true that brand-K and brand-L scopes don't offer fast updates at all in scopes of this class.  I wasn't aware of that little tidbit when I complained about the separate FastAcq mode earlier. 

Very impressed with the UI as seen on Shahriar's preview video.  It appears responsive, well-thought-out, and innovative without being too innovative.  The multiple-OS strategy seems smart as well.  It lessens Tek's dependence on a platform run by people who don't have their users' interests at heart.

Finally, I disagree with Dave's criticism of the MSO implementation; it seems pretty elegant to me.  I use an MSO that can display 16 digital and 4 analog channels concurrently, but historically I've never needed to use them all at once like that.  I do agree with Dave that it was lame not to include at least a couple of 8-channel MSO probes, given the instrument's pricing.  And I think he's right in that this decision will eventually be revisited.

Overall, the new scope lineup is enough of a departure from Tektronix's previous midrange models that I don't think it's unreasonable to call it "game changing."  It's a game-changer for them, and by dint of their influence on the industry as a whole, that makes it a game-changer for everybody else.  It's the first Tek scope that I've drooled over in a very long time.

[snoopy]

... most questions have been answered on the other thread. I'll share some highlights, again 

So many have loved this scope, its easy to use (new) user interface and more! I think whats been discussed here in the forum is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of features and capabilities.

It is the largest built in screen on the market at 15.6 inches and the highest resolution screen at 1920x1080 HD.
It is the first 4, 6, 8 combination scope on the market, and it is the only 6 channel model.
It's also the first scope that has the flexibility of the FlexChannel input (each input can be 1 analog or 8 digital channels just plug in the right probe), if your project needs up to 8 analog or 8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, or 64 digital probes, it can handle all use cases.
Its also the first scope at 2GHz and 8 channels
Its also the first scope to have up to 64 digital channels
It has the highest sample rate (6.25GS/s) on the market for a 8 channel oscilloscope. (interpolation mode = enhanced sample rate, Tek can do 500GS/s)
It's also the first scope to have an embedded OS (std) or optional SSD that brings Windows 10
It's also the first scope to have 500uV/div (5mV Full scale) as a standard gain setting in its class. Only other scope is the RTO, but you have to purchase their HD option.
It's also has the highest waveform capture rate (>500,000 wfms/sec) scope on the market with vertical resolution higher than an 8-bit ADC. (other 10-bit or 12-bit scopes don't specify capture rate and are under 1,000 wfms/sec)
It has the highest standard memory at 62.5 Mpts Record length in its class
It has one of the best service plan options, with the Tektronix Total Protection Plan
It comes standard with up to 8 passive probes, where other 8 channel scopes like the HDO8000A comes with 4.
It has the highest standard sample rate for digital probes, highest bandwidth and lowest capacitance
It has the best passive probes on the market, at up to 1GHz, 3.9pF, and no need for that silly compensation adjustment tool. Its all automatically done, and compensation values are stored in a per channel basis. No need to ever compensate that probe on that channel again.
Only scope over 4 channels with a hardware built in DVM, AFG, and frequency counter.
Only scope on the market with unlimited number of math channels, buses, measurements, and reference inputs (and can load Keysight & LeCroy waveform files)

These are just the tip of the iceberg. The details behind all of them are impressive and many are market leading.  Glad TheSignalPath, Dave and others can admire a great design when they see one 

With fast acquisition rate enabled what functions and features are disabled or compromised ,ie measurements, memory depth etc ?

With fast acquisition disabled what waveform update rate can we expect ?

[BrianH_Tektronix]

... most questions have been answered on the other thread. I'll share some highlights, again 

So many have loved this scope, its easy to use (new) user interface and more! I think whats been discussed here in the forum is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of features and capabilities.

It is the largest built in screen on the market at 15.6 inches and the highest resolution screen at 1920x1080 HD.
It is the first 4, 6, 8 combination scope on the market, and it is the only 6 channel model.
It's also the first scope that has the flexibility of the FlexChannel input (each input can be 1 analog or 8 digital channels just plug in the right probe), if your project needs up to 8 analog or 8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, or 64 digital probes, it can handle all use cases.
Its also the first scope at 2GHz and 8 channels
Its also the first scope to have up to 64 digital channels
It has the highest sample rate (6.25GS/s) on the market for a 8 channel oscilloscope. (interpolation mode = enhanced sample rate, Tek can do 500GS/s)
It's also the first scope to have an embedded OS (std) or optional SSD that brings Windows 10
It's also the first scope to have 500uV/div (5mV Full scale) as a standard gain setting in its class. Only other scope is the RTO, but you have to purchase their HD option.
It's also has the highest waveform capture rate (>500,000 wfms/sec) scope on the market with vertical resolution higher than an 8-bit ADC. (other 10-bit or 12-bit scopes don't specify capture rate and are under 1,000 wfms/sec)
It has the highest standard memory at 62.5 Mpts Record length in its class
It has one of the best service plan options, with the Tektronix Total Protection Plan
It comes standard with up to 8 passive probes, where other 8 channel scopes like the HDO8000A comes with 4.
It has the highest standard sample rate for digital probes, highest bandwidth and lowest capacitance
It has the best passive probes on the market, at up to 1GHz, 3.9pF, and no need for that silly compensation adjustment tool. Its all automatically done, and compensation values are stored in a per channel basis. No need to ever compensate that probe on that channel again.
Only scope over 4 channels with a hardware built in DVM, AFG, and frequency counter.
Only scope on the market with unlimited number of math channels, buses, measurements, and reference inputs (and can load Keysight & LeCroy waveform files)

These are just the tip of the iceberg. The details behind all of them are impressive and many are market leading.  Glad TheSignalPath, Dave and others can admire a great design when they see one 

With fast acquisition rate enabled what functions and features are disabled or compromised ,ie measurements, memory depth etc ?

With fast acquisition disabled what waveform update rate can we expect ?

As mentioned in the previous thread nothing is disabled in FastAcq mode. In fact measurements, buses, and long memory are optionally available. The horizontal model is optimized for speed, so shorter record lengths are on by default and as you scale the horizontal scale the RL doesn't increase as fast. There may be a few things in the architecture happening that i'm not aware about, but i've been able to use search, measurements, adjustable RL, buses, etc.   

[djnz]

As mentioned in the previous thread nothing is disabled in FastAcq mode. In fact measurements, buses, and long memory are optionally available. The horizontal model is optimized for speed, so shorter record lengths are on by default and as you scale the horizontal scale the RL doesn't increase as fast. There may be a few things in the architecture happening that i'm not aware about, but i've been able to use search, measurements, adjustable RL, buses, etc.   

In some previous Tek scopes, FastAcq meant a memory depth of fewer points (I think it was 1k or 10k points). You couldn't use say 10M points and FastAcq at the same time. Has this been improved in the MSO5-series?

[EEVblog]

Finally, I disagree with Dave's criticism of the MSO implementation; it seems pretty elegant to me.  I use an MSO that can display 16 digital and 4 analog channels concurrently, but historically I've never needed to use them all at once like that.  I do agree with Dave that it was lame not to include at least a couple of 8-channel MSO probes, given the instrument's pricing.  And I think he's right in that this decision will eventually be revisited.

No one has yet dared comment on my assertion that the flex channel decision makes the 4 channel scope almost unmarketable.
You pay big dollars for a 4 channel MSO and you have to give up two of those to get your standard 16 digital channels. It's a ridiculous compromise that no other scope has.

[nctnico]

Finally, I disagree with Dave's criticism of the MSO implementation; it seems pretty elegant to me.  I use an MSO that can display 16 digital and 4 analog channels concurrently, but historically I've never needed to use them all at once like that.  I do agree with Dave that it was lame not to include at least a couple of 8-channel MSO probes, given the instrument's pricing.  And I think he's right in that this decision will eventually be revisited.

No one has yet dared comment on my assertion that the flex channel decision makes the 4 channel scope almost unmarketable.
You pay big dollars for a 4 channel MSO and you have to give up two of those to get your standard 16 digital channels. It's a ridiculous compromise that no other scope has.

IIRC I wrote something along the lines that most people will likely buy the 6 or 8 channel version anyway. At least I would. If I remember the pricing graphs from the other thread correctly the price differences are relatively small.

[KE5FX]

No one has yet dared comment on my assertion that the flex channel decision makes the 4 channel scope almost unmarketable.
You pay big dollars for a 4 channel MSO and you have to give up two of those to get your standard 16 digital channels. It's a ridiculous compromise that no other scope has.

Put it this way... if they'd marketed it as a DSO with optional digital inputs, instead of an "MSO," it would never have occurred to anyone to complain.   They shouldn't sell it as an "MSO" if it can't provide at least some MSO functionality as soon as you open the big cardboard box that says "MSO" on it.   Either call it a DSO with an optional MSO upgrade feature, or throw in a couple of digital probes as standard equipment.

[Deridex]

While i think it's a impressive scope, i fail to see the advantage of the flex-channels. 
I don't see why it's not possible to put a bunch of connectors for the digital-channels at the frontpanel.

If i look at the pricetag, then i'm pretty sure that i wont ever have such a scopoe at work. 
I think it would be awesome if Tek would rework there 500-10000 $-scopes. That would be more reachable for me.

[Someone]

While i think it's a impressive scope, i fail to see the advantage of the flex-channels. 
I don't see why it's not possible to put a bunch of connectors for the digital-channels at the frontpanel.

They could put the connectors wherever they like, but the digital inputs are sharing the ASIC memory bandwidth and memory depth of the analog channels so making it take the place of the analog input symbolises this choice of analog or digital neatly. If you want more channels then you add more ASICs which is what they offer up to the 8 channel model, it would be worse value to add ASICs dedicated to only analog or digital. I think the prices of the probes (analog and digital) are the bigger issue.

[snoopy]

... most questions have been answered on the other thread. I'll share some highlights, again 

So many have loved this scope, its easy to use (new) user interface and more! I think whats been discussed here in the forum is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of features and capabilities.

It is the largest built in screen on the market at 15.6 inches and the highest resolution screen at 1920x1080 HD.
It is the first 4, 6, 8 combination scope on the market, and it is the only 6 channel model.
It's also the first scope that has the flexibility of the FlexChannel input (each input can be 1 analog or 8 digital channels just plug in the right probe), if your project needs up to 8 analog or 8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, or 64 digital probes, it can handle all use cases.
Its also the first scope at 2GHz and 8 channels
Its also the first scope to have up to 64 digital channels
It has the highest sample rate (6.25GS/s) on the market for a 8 channel oscilloscope. (interpolation mode = enhanced sample rate, Tek can do 500GS/s)
It's also the first scope to have an embedded OS (std) or optional SSD that brings Windows 10
It's also the first scope to have 500uV/div (5mV Full scale) as a standard gain setting in its class. Only other scope is the RTO, but you have to purchase their HD option.
It's also has the highest waveform capture rate (>500,000 wfms/sec) scope on the market with vertical resolution higher than an 8-bit ADC. (other 10-bit or 12-bit scopes don't specify capture rate and are under 1,000 wfms/sec)
It has the highest standard memory at 62.5 Mpts Record length in its class
It has one of the best service plan options, with the Tektronix Total Protection Plan
It comes standard with up to 8 passive probes, where other 8 channel scopes like the HDO8000A comes with 4.
It has the highest standard sample rate for digital probes, highest bandwidth and lowest capacitance
It has the best passive probes on the market, at up to 1GHz, 3.9pF, and no need for that silly compensation adjustment tool. Its all automatically done, and compensation values are stored in a per channel basis. No need to ever compensate that probe on that channel again.
Only scope over 4 channels with a hardware built in DVM, AFG, and frequency counter.
Only scope on the market with unlimited number of math channels, buses, measurements, and reference inputs (and can load Keysight & LeCroy waveform files)

These are just the tip of the iceberg. The details behind all of them are impressive and many are market leading.  Glad TheSignalPath, Dave and others can admire a great design when they see one 

With fast acquisition rate enabled what functions and features are disabled or compromised ,ie measurements, memory depth etc ?

With fast acquisition disabled what waveform update rate can we expect ?

As mentioned in the previous thread nothing is disabled in FastAcq mode. In fact measurements, buses, and long memory are optionally available. The horizontal model is optimized for speed, so shorter record lengths are on by default and as you scale the horizontal scale the RL doesn't increase as fast. There may be a few things in the architecture happening that i'm not aware about, but i've been able to use search, measurements, adjustable RL, buses, etc.   

So how would you compare this scope with a Keysight scope with a Megazoom ASIC ? Pros and cons ? I am interested in what other tricks you have up your sleeve

[snoopy]

Finally, I disagree with Dave's criticism of the MSO implementation; it seems pretty elegant to me.  I use an MSO that can display 16 digital and 4 analog channels concurrently, but historically I've never needed to use them all at once like that.  I do agree with Dave that it was lame not to include at least a couple of 8-channel MSO probes, given the instrument's pricing.  And I think he's right in that this decision will eventually be revisited.

No one has yet dared comment on my assertion that the flex channel decision makes the 4 channel scope almost unmarketable.
You pay big dollars for a 4 channel MSO and you have to give up two of those to get your standard 16 digital channels. It's a ridiculous compromise that no other scope has.

If you use 3 analog channels and 8 digital channels is that still not a reasonable compromise for this 4 channel scope ? Just a hypothetical. If they throw in the digital probes for nothing then would that change your mind ?

[Deridex]

While i think it's a impressive scope, i fail to see the advantage of the flex-channels. 

I think the prices of the probes (analog and digital) are the bigger issue.

I'm thinking the same here. Thats another reason why i wonder about  the flex-channel.

[BrianH_Tektronix]

Finally, I disagree with Dave's criticism of the MSO implementation; it seems pretty elegant to me.  I use an MSO that can display 16 digital and 4 analog channels concurrently, but historically I've never needed to use them all at once like that.  I do agree with Dave that it was lame not to include at least a couple of 8-channel MSO probes, given the instrument's pricing.  And I think he's right in that this decision will eventually be revisited.

No one has yet dared comment on my assertion that the flex channel decision makes the 4 channel scope almost unmarketable.
You pay big dollars for a 4 channel MSO and you have to give up two of those to get your standard 16 digital channels. It's a ridiculous compromise that no other scope has.

Wait, there are no 2 channel MSO's on the market that provide 2 analog + 16 digital? But the 4 FlexChannel input 5 Series MSO has 4 analog or up to 32 digital (providing the standard scope usage case of 2 analog + 16 digital). I think it has its place, different people will value 4 analog (like a DPO) others will value 1, 2, 3, or 4 analog with the option of trading off an analog for 8 digital. To each their own, this provides superior flexibility, integration and performance. 

[BrianH_Tektronix]

While i think it's a impressive scope, i fail to see the advantage of the flex-channels. 

I think the prices of the probes (analog and digital) are the bigger issue.

I'm thinking the same here. Thats another reason why i wonder about  the flex-channel.

Regarding price, its not that different when you compare the average price for an active probe. Take a look at good quality current probes or differential probes, or high voltage probes from any vendor. These digital probes provide another unique case that fits the normal range of price and performance.

[Chasm]

It has the highest standard sample rate for digital probes, highest bandwidth and lowest capacitance

So, tell us more about the digital section.
How do probes and capabilities compare to other MSO? How to dedicated logic analyzers?
Perhaps more important, how does the software compare?



(In hindsight you should have went with a 10 channel version to placate/head off Daves 8+16 wishes.  )

[Safar]

It is very interesting for me how work digital channels in FlexChan. Is it DAC coding in probe and ADC decoding in scope?

[Smokey]

Finally, I disagree with Dave's criticism of the MSO implementation; it seems pretty elegant to me.  I use an MSO that can display 16 digital and 4 analog channels concurrently, but historically I've never needed to use them all at once like that.  I do agree with Dave that it was lame not to include at least a couple of 8-channel MSO probes, given the instrument's pricing.  And I think he's right in that this decision will eventually be revisited.

No one has yet dared comment on my assertion that the flex channel decision makes the 4 channel scope almost unmarketable.
You pay big dollars for a 4 channel MSO and you have to give up two of those to get your standard 16 digital channels. It's a ridiculous compromise that no other scope has.

I dare.... MSO is already a giant compromise on the logic analyzer.  If you are serious about digital channels, you have a dedicated logic analyzer.  Done.  If you have to time correlate a bunch of digital channels with a bunch of analog channels you use a set of instruments where the stand alone oscilloscope and the stand alone logic analyzer can be linked and the data analyzed after.  No one is doing serious high channel count digital analysis on an MSO screen.  The digital channels on an MSO (especially high channel count), even high quality configurable channels like on this Tek, are not the main reason you buy this piece of gear. 

[nctnico]

Finally, I disagree with Dave's criticism of the MSO implementation; it seems pretty elegant to me.  I use an MSO that can display 16 digital and 4 analog channels concurrently, but historically I've never needed to use them all at once like that.  I do agree with Dave that it was lame not to include at least a couple of 8-channel MSO probes, given the instrument's pricing.  And I think he's right in that this decision will eventually be revisited.

No one has yet dared comment on my assertion that the flex channel decision makes the 4 channel scope almost unmarketable.
You pay big dollars for a 4 channel MSO and you have to give up two of those to get your standard 16 digital channels. It's a ridiculous compromise that no other scope has.

I dare.... MSO is already a giant compromise on the logic analyzer.  If you are serious about digital channels, you have a dedicated logic analyzer.  Done.  If you have to time correlate a bunch of digital channels with a bunch of analog channels you use a set of instruments where the stand alone oscilloscope and the stand alone logic analyzer can be linked and the data analyzed after.  No one is doing serious high channel count digital analysis on an MSO screen.  The digital channels on an MSO (especially high channel count), even high quality configurable channels like on this Tek, are not the main reason you buy this piece of gear.

Not quite right. A logic analyser works different than an MSO so you can't really compare them. A logic analyser first captures data and then the analysis starts. On an MSO you see the data realtime which allows to see patterns over time you are likely to miss on a logic analyser.

[CopperCone]

Brian, how does the FFT engine look on this scope?

Like update rate, samples used, etc.

[Tom45]

... most questions have been answered on the other thread. I'll share some highlights, again 
...
It's also the first scope to have an embedded OS (std) or optional SSD that brings Windows 10
...

I'm curious what the embedded OS and/or Windows 10 could do for a user.

[PA4TIM]

It is a bit weird, all that marketing stuff.
Giving scopes to vloggers who do not need or use most of the gear they get.

When I needed a new scope for my one man company (repairing measurement and calibration gear)  I wanted to try the scope before buying and had some questions.  I mailed Tek, Agilent and R&S (for the topmodel from Hameg) . The only one that reacted was R&S. Ok it was only 5k euro but it  would be great  if some marketing budget was spent  on real potential customers.

For me 5k was a big investment. By coincidence I repaired a Tek MSO in the same class as my scope a year ago and I think that I would have bought that if I was able to try it and Tek answered my questions.  I like the Hameg but the Tek had some things I preferred (against expectation) when I was testing it after repair.

Fred

[madmax96]

Sometimes I do not understand if it's just marketing or if there are also technical reason on saying that this scope is opening a "new era".
12 Adc and 8 channel scope are in the market since more than 3 years...if you look at the Enob of this scope , it'a worst than Keysight S series and LeCroy Hdo9k. If you look at the noise , the Tek scope is a disaster. At 2Ghz is an 8bit scope (why a 12 bit Adc should became an 8 bit???) ... memory is just 125MS, LeCroy have 250M....the only new thing is the monitor, not enough for a new era.
Why someone should buy an 8 channel scope? The main applications are power and motor control (3 phase).
Who would use a 2Ghz scope for these apps???
Sincerely I do not see anything new in the market.

[snoopy]

Sometimes I do not understand if it's just marketing or if there are also technical reason on saying that this scope is opening a "new era".
12 Adc and 8 channel scope are in the market since more than 3 years...if you look at the Enob of this scope , it'a worst than Keysight S series and LeCroy Hdo9k. If you look at the noise , the Tek scope is a disaster. At 2Ghz is an 8bit scope (why a 12 bit Adc should became an 8 bit???) ... memory is just 125MS, LeCroy have 250M....the only new thing is the monitor, not enough for a new era.
Why someone should buy an 8 channel scope? The main applications are power and motor control (3 phase).
Who would use a 2Ghz scope for these apps???
Sincerely I do not see anything new in the market.

You can always buy the 4 channel or 6 channel versions

2GHz is needed for high bandwidth signals. Try debugging or testing a memory subsystem with a 200MHz clock using a 200MHz scope. Forget about it. If the waveform update rate of the Lecroy and Keysight is low then you may not capture glitches for a long time.

Maybe not a revolutionary scope. More like evolutionary

cheers

[nctnico]

Why someone should buy an 8 channel scope?

I can think of several very good reasons: more channels is better and when it comes in handy for a future problem chances are that having more channels saves more money than the price difference between lower channel version. I have several pieces of expensive test equipment which I use less than once a year but when I use them they pay for themselves each time.