Author Topic: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help  (Read 10552 times)

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Offline AutogolazzoJrTopic starter

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Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« on: January 22, 2018, 02:24:14 am »
Hey, a few months ago I bought a used Phillips pm3394 200mhz combiscope (for 130 USD, good deal) and have some questions on it.
1. How to use the z-mod input on the back?
2. I'm not sure if it is a pm3394A or pm3394B. How can I tell?
3. When the oscilloscope turns on, the traces don't appear in the center of the screen. Once the instrument warms up (The software won't say "warming up" anymore when the autocal is pressed) the traces gradually move towards the center of the screen and align. What is wrong here? Is this normal?
Thanks to anyone who gives an answer!
 

Offline AutogolazzoJrTopic starter

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2018, 01:45:45 pm »
Bump
 

Offline ArthurDent

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2018, 02:47:20 pm »
This may or may not help but the 287 page service manual is available as a free download. It doesn't look like it tells you much about the operation.

http://elektrotanya.com/fluke_pm3370a_3380a_3382a_3384a_3390a_3392a_3394a_sm.pdf/download.html
 

Offline wn1fju

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2018, 07:36:54 pm »
1) The Z-mod input is used to (dynamically) vary the intensity of the trace.  I have never found an occasion to use it, but if you google "oscilloscope
z-modulation," I'm sure others have.

2) Doesn't the label above the CRT tell you whether it is a PM3394A or PM3394B.  My "B" model is clearly marked, and besides, the "B" model also says
"25 GS/s repetitive sampling," unlike the "A" model.

3) My PM3390B (2-channel variant) also exhibits a baseline shift of about 2 minor ticks upon startup and returns to the center in about 10 minutes.  Must
just be the nature of the beast.
 
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Offline AutogolazzoJrTopic starter

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2018, 08:51:35 pm »
Thank you! I got the z mod working by applying about a volt of dc to the back bnc connector. My oscilloscope says phillips on it, not fluke, so I'm not sure what model it is. It doesn't say A or B on it. I'm glad that the shift of 2 ticks is fine, and not a problem. Once again, thanks a ton.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2018, 12:12:26 am »
3) My PM3390B (2-channel variant) also exhibits a baseline shift of about 2 minor ticks upon startup and returns to the center in about 10 minutes.  Must just be the nature of the beast.

This varies between oscilloscope models and even different examples of the same oscilloscope model.  2 minor divisions of display shift is acceptable.

I usually notice the change in brightness more as they warm up.
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2018, 12:47:37 pm »
Press "UTILITY" > Maintenance
This will give you all the details about your scope
Including installed options

A cold PM3394 scope will always show the beam a little high.
If you give the scope about 30 min warmup time, the beam should be right on the "-" sign for that channel.
If not, press and hold the CAL button for a couple seconds, until the self-cal will start.

If the the beam is still not perfectly on the "-" sign after a couple of self calibration cycles,
You might need to have a manual calibration done.

BTW, the password for all of these PM33xx scopes is 32415
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2018, 12:57:35 pm »
Here is a screen shot of one of my PM3394B
This one has all options and the latest FirmWare installed.
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Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2018, 01:37:34 pm »
Service manual for the original 3394 - there wree several changes in the "A" and "B" versions

https://www.wild-pc.co.uk/docs/pm3382rev.pdf

User manual - for the "B" version but close enough.

https://www.wild-pc.co.uk/docs/pm33xx__umeng0200.pdf

Reference manual
https://www.wild-pc.co.uk/docs/pm33xx__rmeng0400.pdf

Nice 'scopes
 
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Offline AutogolazzoJrTopic starter

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2018, 08:45:14 pm »
Mine says firmware 1993 so I think I have the original.
EDIT: Original, not A.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 04:44:16 pm by AutogolazzoJr »
 

Offline AutogolazzoJrTopic starter

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2018, 05:34:10 pm »
Anyone know how to get saved waveforms off the scope via rs232? CPL protocol? Thanks.
 

Offline kripton2035

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« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 06:37:03 pm by kripton2035 »
 

Offline AutogolazzoJrTopic starter

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2018, 06:39:18 pm »
Yes, I have read the manual, but am quite unfamiliar with the protocol and the 25-year-old tech used. A more descriptive example would be nice. Maybe HighVoltage can help (as of 2015 he owns at least 6 of them). I'm guessing the example program used will take whatever digital trace is stored on the screen and export it as a file. How would I execute it? What kind of program do I need to send the program via rs232?
 

Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2018, 07:04:19 pm »
Yes, I have read the manual, but am quite unfamiliar with the protocol and the 25-year-old tech used. A more descriptive example would be nice. Maybe HighVoltage can help (as of 2015 he owns at least 6 of them). I'm guessing the example program used will take whatever digital trace is stored on the screen and export it as a file. How would I execute it? What kind of program do I need to send the program via rs232?
You send a "QW" (Query Waveform) command.

You get back some housekeeping info, then the data, two bytes per sample.

Page 6-35 and 6-36 in the manual.
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2018, 07:35:09 pm »
Use the original software that came with the scope, it still works pretty well under Windows Xp
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Offline AutogolazzoJrTopic starter

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2018, 07:36:01 pm »
I bought it used, it didn't come with anything. Can you send me the software? thanks
 

Offline AutogolazzoJrTopic starter

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2018, 07:37:20 pm »
Also, may I confirm that this is the right type of cable? https://www.ebay.com/itm/292367569129?var=591250980835
Thanks
 

Offline AutogolazzoJrTopic starter

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2018, 01:26:37 am »
Keep in mind I have the phillips pm3394a version
 

Offline Bratster

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2018, 02:19:02 am »
Also, may I confirm that this is the right type of cable? https://www.ebay.com/itm/292367569129?var=591250980835
Thanks

Edit: I stand corrected, it is a standard null modem cable.



Let me go look at mine, I think I have a wiring diagram for it.

Edit: pinout attached.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 08:29:25 am by Bratster »
 
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Offline Bratster

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2018, 02:24:17 am »
Also for taking screenshots of the scope, a plotter emulator software will work. You just set up the plotter settings in the scope to match what the plotter emulator program wants and then the scope just thinks it's sending out to a plotter.

The software that I use is part of this:
http://www.ke5fx.com/gpib/readme.htm

It is a package of software that can do a bunch of different things. But it has the plotter emulation software in it. You just need to configure it for rs-232 as opposed to gpib.


I would also be interested in the official software for the combiscope if someone has it.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 02:54:15 am by Bratster »
 
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Offline AutogolazzoJrTopic starter

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2018, 02:57:26 am »
Interesting. The pm3394B manual mentions a null modem cable? Anywhere I can get a a cable like that, or one to modify into?
 

Offline egonotto

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2018, 04:27:34 am »
Hello,

I think the Null Modem Cable you link is ok.

I have a frugal C++ program for Visual Studio 2005 to read trace to computer.

Best regards
egonotto


 

Offline ps

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2018, 11:18:35 am »
2) Doesn't the label above the CRT tell you whether it is a PM3394A or PM3394B.  My "B" model is clearly marked, and besides, the "B" model also says
"25 GS/s repetitive sampling," unlike the "A" model.

That should be the case, unless the scope has been upgraded by some user. PM3394, PM3394A and PM3394B have clearly different labels.

 

Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2018, 01:46:50 pm »
2) Doesn't the label above the CRT tell you whether it is a PM3394A or PM3394B.  My "B" model is clearly marked, and besides, the "B" model also says
"25 GS/s repetitive sampling," unlike the "A" model.

The model number is printed on the front panel and is shown on the status screen as demonstrated in the photo HighVoltage posted above.

There is no ambiguity - if there is just a plain model number without "A" or "B" then it is one of the original series, if it is a newer 'scope the model number will end in "A" or "B"

That should be the case, unless the scope has been upgraded by some user. PM3394, PM3394A and PM3394B have clearly different labels.

The two model numbers could be different if someone has replaced the CPU card with one from a later 'scope - this won't "upgrade" the 'scope as such - except that there were supposedly bugs in the CPL interpreter which made some things not work over RS-232 which weren't fixed until the "B" version. I don't have the exact details of what the bugs were.

I'm not actually sure what "upgrades" are possible or meaningful for this series of instruments. They are actually fairly tolerant of swapping boards between the series although there were minor changes in the schematics over time. In particular the A/B version of the CPU card is quite a bit different to the original and the EEPROM's are soldered in so it isn't possible for the user to change the firmware. There were rumours and hints in the manual that a PC program existed for firmware updates but I have never seen even the slightest clue as to a copy on the 'net.

There were also minor front panel changes between the original and A/B series so I would only really suggest putting a "B" CPU card into an "A" chassis to get the firmware updates.

They are also pretty tolerant of swapping the A8 board between 'scopes. If you put a 100MHz A8 board in a 200MHz 'scope you get a warning (and vice-versa) but it works. In theory the A8 board only differs in a few components between the two but the only attempt that I made to "upgrade" a 100MHz A8 board to a 200MHz one ended in disaster. I think I know what I did wrong but don't have an inexhaustible supply of boards to wreck getting it right. In any case if you change the ID resistors it will go in fine without any error and can be calibrated to the 200MHz spec so there isn't all that much point.

It isn't feasible to upgrade a 100MHz chassis to 200MHz bandwidth - the front end has a relatively small number of component differences (but a lot more than the A8 board) but the CRT, delay line and final X/Y amplifiers differ physically.

Swapping the CPU card to gain the maths package or GPIB would be reasonable but the supply of faulty 'scopes has dried up (at least on eBay) so in practice unlikely. You can't just populate the empty GPIB hardware on the CPU card as the firmware on a non-GPIB version will not know how to drive it (as well as the hardware interface here is an entire command interpreter as well).

The only other upgrade which is feasible in practice would be to increase the amount of DSP/acquisition RAM on the A8 card but, again, I tried this and the card was unstable afterwards. Not sure why.
 
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Offline AutogolazzoJrTopic starter

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Re: Phillips/Fluke PM3394 Combiscope Help
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2018, 02:05:21 pm »
Thanks. I have the original version (PM3394), not A or B. Firmware 1993. I plan on using that 3-wire null modem cable and running some of the examples in the B version manual using PC-BASIC, a GWBASIC emulator. I will probably need a little more help once I try it all out, considering I'm only 14 and never got the chance to learn BASIC  :). Once again, thanks a ton, long responses are always a treat.

EDIT: It is highly unlikely that my 'scope has been modified. When I opened it, there was a strong seal holding the metal cover to the front panel.
 


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