Author Topic: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z  (Read 4030 times)

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Offline Galenbo

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Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« on: September 13, 2015, 12:05:12 AM »
Hello, I see the DS1074B listed for $945 and the newer DS1074Z for $549.
http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000b/ds1074b/
http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000Z/ds1074z/
I compared the specs, see some difference in sampling rate and memory, number of the knobs and size of the screen.

What's the real reason to (still) prefer the DS1074B?
I can't find an online compare, and while I can work with a scope, don't own both devices and don't know all aspects and tricks.
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Offline icpart

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2015, 02:01:41 AM »
The main difference is that new Rigol 1000B series have double sampling rate vs Z series. New is 2 GSa/s sample rate. Also in 1000B series you have 1 GSa/s per channel vs 250 MSa/S in 1000Z series which is four time more sample rate per channel. So the price difference is expected between these series.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2015, 02:29:23 AM »
That's what I read in the specs too.
Are there difference in how the software, memory, trigger, filtering behaves, in favor of the B-series?
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Offline kwass

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2015, 02:40:01 AM »
I sold my 1074B and bought a 1054Z a year ago.  While the 1074B has slightly more responsive controls and is easier to use -- because of the separate controls for each channel -- the 1054Z (upgraded) beats it for just about everything else.  The main reason I changed DSO's was because of memory depth and waveform update rate. 8/16KB memory and a few hundred waveforms/second is crippling on a DSO.  The substantially higher samples/second on the 1074B is not much help because the frequency response is the limiting factor.

That's what I read in the specs too.
Are there difference in how the software, memory, trigger, filtering behaves, in favor of the B-series?

From what I recall the filtering is better on the B, but trigger, memory and software options (although there are more bugs that are gradually getting addressed)  are much, much better on the Z.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2015, 07:04:10 AM by kwass »
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Offline edavid

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2015, 03:12:17 AM »
The main difference is that new Rigol 1000B series have double sampling rate vs Z series. New is 2 GSa/s sample rate. Also in 1000B series you have 1 GSa/s per channel vs 250 MSa/S in 1000Z series which is four time more sample rate per channel. So the price difference is expected between these series.

In 4 channel mode, I think the 1000B is 1GSPS and the 1000Z is 250MSPS.  However, I wouldn't buy a DS1000B - it's obsolete and overpriced.  In that price range I'd be looking for a used Keysight DSOX2004A or something like that.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2015, 04:42:00 AM »
Adding more...

I'd prefer the individual vertical channel knobs on the B, compared to multiplexed on the Z.

But the screen resolution, sorry, it's like Duplo on the B. That on its own is enough for me, although the 7" Z's 800x480 is a little cramped, but way, way better than the 5.7" 320x240 of the B.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2015, 07:06:40 PM »
Adding more...

I'd prefer the individual vertical channel knobs on the B, compared to multiplexed on the Z.
...

thanks for the info. Like (I think) most users I use a scope mostly for the first channel only.
I don't own the Z, are the multiplexed knobs easy to use for allways-the-same channel?
 
Are there other options that are hidden/multiplexed/menu'd away, more then on the B model?
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Online Fungus

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2015, 07:21:47 PM »
I don't own the Z, are the multiplexed knobs easy to use for allways-the-same channel?
 
Yes. The knobs work for whatever channel is selected (press the channel button).

If you only use one channel then you don't have to do anything special, just use them.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2015, 08:54:04 PM »
Ok, Thanks.
If I understand right:

The DS1000B is a mixture of:
- the sampling rate of the DS2000
- the 4-channels of the DS4000
- the soft and screen of the DS1000E

The DS1000Z is a mixture of:
- the sampling rate of the DS1000E
- the 4-channels of the DS4000
- the soft and screen of the DS2000

Witch makes it a sampling rate vs bling comparison?
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Offline Ivan7enych

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2015, 09:19:12 PM »
Here I've found a good review of 1000B and comparison with 1000Z (in russian only, but there are many informative pictures)


IMHO
1000B - has no intensity grading, much less informative screen (320x240 vs 800x480), much less waveform/s rate, it's firmware is based on a very old DS1000E, so I see many reasons to prefer 1000Z.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 09:31:00 PM by Ivan7enych »
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2015, 09:29:51 PM »
1000B - has no intensity grading, much less informative screen (320x240 vs 800x480), much less waveform/s rate, it's firmware is based on an very old DS1000E, so I see many reasons to prefer 1000Z.
Yep. In terms of usefulness, new screen+new software+lots more memory trumps a bit more bandwidth IMHO.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 09:33:29 PM by Fungus »
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2015, 06:40:18 PM »
Here I've found a good review of 1000B and comparison with 1000Z (in russian only, but there are many informative pictures)
Thanks but hmmm...
 
1000B - has no intensity grading, ...
I saw Dave talking about that in a review, I think it was about the DS2000 series.
Can you provide an example of where this is needed?

I think I'm not on that level. I use a scope for looking at the result of what an RC filter does with (waveform generated) spikes, look at the signal to see why my usb-serial decoder gives nothing,
look at the result of the gain an optocoupler gives, look at the error of a power supply when under intermittent load,... I think this is very basic stuff.
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Offline Ivan7enych

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2015, 11:41:01 PM »
1000B - has no intensity grading, ...
I saw Dave talking about that in a review, I think it was about the DS2000 series.
Can you provide an example of where this is needed?
DS1000Z does have it as well.

One example -
In audio circuits (amplifiers) it can show you both audio signal and high frequency parasitic oscillations. Old style of digital oscilloscope (with small amount of sample points) can possibly alias that high frequency oscillations and show it as a false low frequency signal.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2015, 11:50:52 PM »
I think I'm not on that level. I use a scope for looking at the result of what an RC filter does with (waveform generated) spikes, look at the signal to see why my usb-serial decoder gives nothing,
look at the result of the gain an optocoupler gives, look at the error of a power supply when under intermittent load,... I think this is very basic stuff.
So why would you pay nearly twice as much for a DS1074B?
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2015, 08:10:34 PM »
I found this in another tread:

I had a DS1052E, sold it and bought a DS1054Z. 4 channels is great and since most of the work I do is low frequency (<1MHz) the sample rate isn't an issue. The things I miss about the 1052E were alternate triggering and having a dedicated trigger input. Sometimes I'm looking at 4 channels of analog where two channels are >1MHz and two channels are <10KHz. Without alternate triggering, I'd be better off having two 2-channel scopes instead.
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Offline kwass

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2015, 09:27:29 PM »
I found this in another tread:

I had a DS1052E, sold it and bought a DS1054Z. 4 channels is great and since most of the work I do is low frequency (<1MHz) the sample rate isn't an issue. The things I miss about the 1052E were alternate triggering and having a dedicated trigger input. Sometimes I'm looking at 4 channels of analog where two channels are >1MHz and two channels are <10KHz. Without alternate triggering, I'd be better off having two 2-channel scopes instead.

I forgot about that.  The DS1074B has alternate triggering too, but I almost never used that and haven't missed it since selling that and getting a DS1054Z.   Also the 1074B has a full screen X-Y display (I don't understand why they don't offer that option on the 1054Z).  Still, for me, the major memory advantage alone makes getting a 1054Z a win over a 1074B.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 09:29:17 PM by kwass »
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Offline Howardlong

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2015, 09:36:58 PM »
I guess it depends how often you use X-Y mode: I have to say that other than for interesting academic exercises, I've never needed to use it myself: YMMV of course!
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2015, 07:16:31 PM »
I think I'm not on that level. I use a scope for...
So why would you pay nearly twice as much for a DS1074B?
You are right. But it's the price difference (B>Z) that makes (made) me think the B has important features/specs I will miss in the Z. You guys do a great job in comparing/explaining your expieriences. It's not easy to interprete the importance of each spec for sombody like me that has used less than 10 different scopes in life.

I guess it depends how often you use X-Y mode: I have to say that other than for interesting academic exercises, I've never needed to use it myself: YMMV of course!
Neither me. Wasn't it an exercise that had to do with signal synchronisation?

Brings me to another thing I never used: Ext Trig. I know the theory behind it, but if I'm right, you can use whatever channel to do this, ending up with a 3ch+ext.trig?

« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 07:22:27 PM by Galenbo »
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Online Fungus

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Re: Reasons to prefer a DS1074B over a DS1074Z
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2015, 07:59:14 PM »
Brings me to another thing I never used: Ext Trig. I know the theory behind it, but if I'm right, you can use whatever channel to do this, ending up with a 3ch+ext.trig?

Correct.

External trigger isn't as important in a 4 channel scope as it is in a 2 channel scope.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 08:00:51 PM by Fungus »
 


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