Recommendation scope

[Mechatrommer]

I assume the Siglent has similar capabilities?

recently i rechecked siglent's manual there is indication it should can using WF or GCSV command? but i havent seen someone demonstrated it (not even in programming example in the manual) in real application, so i'm not sure. i think the manual is recent as istr it was not available in earlier dso model of siglent.

[tautech]

few years ago i used my PC USB FG with my DS1052E (or DS1054Z? i forgot) to do bode plot / impedance analysis similar to Dave's latest video using Bode 100 VNA. both of the FG (DDS3x25) and the scope... if you have some programming skill, you can pay $500 instead of the $5000 Bode 100 unit. attached are some capabilities you can do with the $500 PC+FG+DSO... i dont use the SW anymore since now i can afford something better but i think one day it will be handy if i dont want to risk or outside of input range of the more expensive equipment... ymmv.

That's exactly what I've been working on and doing with various pieces of equipment. Automation can be a wonderful thing.

I assume the Siglent has similar capabilities?

For the 4ch X-E's, yes with the addition of an AWG.
Simple example:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1435854/#msg1435854

And follow on in reply #550.

[Mechatrommer]

For the 4ch X-E's, yes with the addition of an AWG.
Simple example:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1435854/#msg1435854
And follow on in reply #550.

nice feature, but few points (1) i believed it is tied to siglent brand FG for proper automation. if we already have a FG or want to find cheaper version, then we have to do it manually just like the rest of DSO, otherwise we have to buy another FG or more expensive siglent brand  (2) sometime we need different setup, for example, instead of dB scale on Y axis, can it show |Z| value? built in feature is nice, but i dont think it can provide all users needs, so user programmability from "Raw" data input can open to a wider possibilities. other possibilities... what if i want to change the reference resistance from 50 ohm (in my 3rd attached picture) to other value and do custom calculation? deep length smaller RBW FFT as usually mentioned, etc... if someone can demo that data points from siglent dso can be downloaded to PC, i'll give it a thumbs up and worthy a mention from my recommendation department (the higher price of siglent instruments is another discussion though worth considering). ymmv.

[rf-loop]

For the 4ch X-E's, yes with the addition of an AWG.
Simple example:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1435854/#msg1435854

And follow on in reply #550.

Also in first message in same thread.

Sweep step 1Hz (center 999817Hz, Span 500 Hz, 501 data points.)
Not only this. It can do simultaneosly 3 channels BP.

And example this simple image tell real difference to competitors. Too easy simple cases what all can do, do not differentiate toys and tools. Some salesmen have said: "Scrap the Toys, Get a Real Oscilloscope". Just this...  :O

With Siglent it need what ever Siglent SDG. (in this example SDG1032X) Also some example LeCroy and BK precision etc some models (rebranded Siglents). Of course this is because generator need be under tight control of Scope.

[Mechatrommer]

"Some salesmen have said: "Scrap the Toys, Get a Real Oscilloscope". Just this...  :O

so exactly... which one is real oscilloscope which one is toy oscilloscope? DS1054Z is toy? i think Keysight or R&S is real oscilloscope, more money more real nevermind the big pocket guy, we bunch of poor people here. ps: dont trust the salesmen they only know how to sale they dont even know linux and even say no to you if you attempt command shell in a dso

[tautech]

For the 4ch X-E's, yes with the addition of an AWG.
Simple example:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1435854/#msg1435854
And follow on in reply #550.

nice feature, but few points (1) i believed it is tied to siglent brand FG for proper automation.

We thought it would be too but some have found ways around that and written scripts that interface between FG and SDS1*04X-E. It's in the thread somewhere about them and I'll come back after dinner with a link.
Here ya go:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-bode-plot-with-non-siglent-awg/

[Fungus]

Some salesmen have said: "Scrap the Toys, Get a Real Oscilloscope". Just this...  :O

Salesman are supposed to say wanky things like that. 

(And none of those phrases have ever been true in the whole of history - if it was another brand's slogan you'd be all indignant that your "Siglent isn't a toy!!")

[rf-loop]

"Some salesmen have said: "Scrap the Toys, Get a Real Oscilloscope". Just this...  :O

so exactly... which one is real oscilloscope which one is toy oscilloscope? DS1054Z is toy? i think Keysight or R&S is real oscilloscope, more money more real nevermind the big pocket guy, we bunch of poor people here. ps: dont trust the salesmen they only know how to sale they dont even know linux and even say no to you if you attempt command shell in a dso

It was ONLY for this image in message.
Try with Keysight entry level scope what have this phrase in salesmen brochures. And what advertise BodePlot function with big mouth. Siglent win it totally hands down, just totally. Just like total crap toy and real scope. (in this case what image show (and overall with BP) :| )

Of course then if we go to bit more upper class. There is nice professional lab grade and high end class scopes available from example LeCroy, R&S, Keysight and Tek. But world is changing and who knows how is this list in 2049

Old high end H-P equipment may example have front panel knob Optical encoder with ball bearings what never ever count single step wrong even if you random shake it how ever and it still last nearly infinite even if handle with heavy hand and gang.  Even one this component may cost same as today entry level "nice" Rigol or Siglent whole equipment or some others. Oh yes I have never seen if today Keysight have anymore these equipments what are also mechanically high end or even state of art class even with price tag as house.
My first scope when I was young was Heathkit IO-12  at 60's. (what a total crap if I think now but its time foir me it was miracle and still I learn lot of with this crap.)
Later I get some second hand 100MHz 60's Solartron and just after then I realize in real life what is total junk and what is tool (vs this heathkit "junk"). Of course later decades learn more when get more experience.

Now we talk scopes what new price is in class 1 - 5 day professional workman salary if we look normal somehow developed western countries! And then we look and nitpick details if this can be bit better or if this tiny detail is this or that... 

...but other hand... of course then it need understand that there is LOT of peoples who have extremely limited money for some hobby things if even for food. Then these are also expensive or very expensive. Some people may need save one year or even more for get one cheapest Rigol or Siglent.
When I was 7 year old I wait many months before I get ONE diode! (Chrystal detector for my self made Radio).

What is cheap crap for one, it may be expensive "crown jewel" to some other. And this can see here in messages. This is why also Rigol 1kZ is very good if compare what ever if want stand alone scope - If its price is buyer hard limit, how I can tell that use bit more and you get better.

[Mr. Scram]

For the 4ch X-E's, yes with the addition of an AWG.
Simple example:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1435854/#msg1435854

And follow on in reply #550.

I was talking about the abilities of the oscilloscope itself. Can it read data back to a computer so that can do a many point FFT? Or have a computer trigger and read out the readings when combined with whatever AWG or SG you please? That obviously takes some programming, but is what Mechatrommer did.

In other words, does a user have enough control of the device through SCPI or similar commands to usefully use it in various testing setups without being locked into buying more Siglent gear?

[james_s]

All I care about in that regard, and all the typical user of a low cost scope is going to care about, is that there is a convenient way to get scope captures off the instrument and onto a PC. Someone who needs computer control of their test gear really should be buying proper professional grade equipment like Tek, Keysight, etc.

[Mr. Scram]

All I care about in that regard, and all the typical user of a low cost scope is going to care about, is that there is a convenient way to get scope captures off the instrument and onto a PC. Someone who needs computer control of their test gear really should be buying proper professional grade equipment like Tek, Keysight, etc.

Why would that be so? The same could be argued for making measurements, with the same lack of tangible arguments. Rigol and Siglent wouldn't offer the options and connectivity if low cost oscilloscope users wouldn't care.

[james_s]

They offer it because it costs virtually nothing to include and it's another feature to list on the spec sheet. How often do you see a hobbyist using computer control of their scope? I tried it once just to see if I could make it work, haven't connected that since. I've seen a lot of youtube videos of people using scopes, can't think of a single time someone showed one being controlled by a computer. What sort of hobby projects are going to need or benefit from that?

Scopes like the Rigol are solidly aimed at the hobbyist/maker market and are entry level instruments. They offer a good value and can do a lot but I've never seen one on the bench in anywhere I've ever worked.

[Mr. Scram]

They offer it because it costs virtually nothing to include and it's another feature to list on the spec sheet. How often do you see a hobbyist using computer control of their scope? I tried it once just to see if I could make it work, haven't connected that since. I've seen a lot of youtube videos of people using scopes, can't think of a single time someone showed one being controlled by a computer. What sort of hobby projects are going to need or benefit from that?

Scopes like the Rigol are solidly aimed at the hobbyist/maker market and are entry level instruments. They offer a good value and can do a lot but I've never seen one on the bench in anywhere I've ever worked.

Doing a bode plot with a computer controlled AWG of a brand of your choosing and oscilloscope would be one application. Doing a many point FFT on a much more powerful computer would be another. Both are things that are of interest to even a casual user.

However, it's a moot discussion. The DS1054Z does both of these to a usable and useful degree. I simply want to know whether the Siglents can match this capability.

[rf-loop]

However, it's a moot discussion. The DS1054Z does both of these to a usable and useful degree. I simply want to know whether the Siglents can match this capability.

Using  SCPI commands 
WAVEFORM_SETUP | WFSU
WAVEFORM? | WF?
The waveform record must be read from the oscilloscope by the controller using two separate commands.
With setup you define data what you want, including possible decimation etc and with WF you ask data.

Programming Guide, version E02,  pages 178 to 191

And about communication pages 11 - 13 
( and other pages with examples )

(Disclaimer: This is only from manuals, not my self tested irl)

[Mechatrommer]

All I care about in that regard, and all the typical user of a low cost scope is going to care about, is that there is a convenient way to get scope captures off the instrument and onto a PC.

there's germany sw that can even creates animated gif for that, and visadso can do that (among its other main features).

Someone who needs computer control of their test gear really should be buying proper professional grade equipment like Tek, Keysight, etc.

why have to buy more expensive if cheaper rigol can perform the task? (from hobbiest/poormen perspective, not a company nor rich guy)

I've seen a lot of youtube videos of people using scopes, can't think of a single time someone showed one being controlled by a computer. What sort of hobby projects are going to need or benefit from that?

i dont know but yes i agree controlling from PC like changing graph scales, turning on and off channels etc when we have dedicated buttons for that is just a gimmick. there is/are hobbiests tried to develop application for that but i suspect it will die soon after once or twice of use after its development completion life cycle. otoh we are talking about getting "data", technical or scientific or engineering or presentation data whatever you want to call it to PC. please differentiate between applications like bode/respond plotter or high resolution fft view (which only get important "raw" data and then post process it) with fancy PC remote control gimmick applications.

Scopes like the Rigol are solidly aimed at the hobbyist/maker market and are entry level instruments. They offer a good value and can do a lot but I've never seen one on the bench in anywhere I've ever worked.

so you still dont get it... rigol is for hobby (you said yourself)... but not available on professional desk why? how am i going to explain that? maybe just a simple question... is professional is a hobby? why a big pocket company (or even person) buy a cheap when they can afford more branded one? if you have abundant of money, which one you are going to buy, a bettle car? or a ferrari car? but that doesnt mean bettle car is useless cant run and nobody want it right?

btw, another application i can think of (not yet needed so no program developed yet) is downloading logic analysis data. yeah yeah i know siglent has better logic decoder compared to rigol dont tell me that i've heard that like 100 times with proves cant argue with that anymore, but i have more superior cloned () salae logic 8 for that purpose... unlimited memory and nice raw data export for external application post processing as well. i dont have yet a need or capability to observe pages (full memory) of decoded data in realtime blinking blinking in so many times per second on the dso screen, i guess people who sweared by the feature have the ability to do that... 30 rolling eyes per second.

i'm talking about if we have specific protocol, encrypted mystical stream only we know how to decode it on screen. or something undecodable in scope, such as if we know the data contains rows of color/monitor data, we can plot that graphically on pc screen, no dso i know can do this not even Keysight or Rohde and Swarczh. ymmv.

[Mechatrommer]

For the 4ch X-E's, yes with the addition of an AWG.
Simple example:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1435854/#msg1435854
And follow on in reply #550.

nice feature, but few points (1) i believed it is tied to siglent brand FG for proper automation.

We thought it would be too but some have found ways around that and written scripts that interface between FG and SDS1*04X-E. It's in the thread somewhere about them and I'll come back after dinner with a link.
Here ya go:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-bode-plot-with-non-siglent-awg/

nice video, but i am hoping he can download some data into the PC...

@james_s this is one application (from tautech's link/thread above) of how we want to control dso from pc to automate/synchronize with other instruments...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PvueUHAJ78&feature=youtu.be

but well, maybe your company has a proper and proffesional VNA for that purpose. we just use poorman method in hope to get the same (or close) result as proffesionals do at fractions of price. thats why its quite a shame to do a decent video using this poorman method.. ymmv.

this is another video, the well known (among the community) PyDSA FFT


edit:
another recently new thread, DS1054Z + FG as a VNA...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/vector-network-analyzer-from-rigol-ds1054z/?topicseen
fwiw...

[bielas]

After meditating on which one to buy, I decided on the Siglent.

I know that the Rigol is enough, but the Siglent seems more modern, and will give me more benefits in the future, and as I said before, the price difference is not a problem.

Now I need advice on where to buy it in Europe, and if there is any kind of discount or offer that can benefit me.

[tautech]

https://www.siglenteu.com/how-to-buy/

Spain
R Telecom Iberia S.L.U.
 C/ Vilafortuny 23, Nave 7 43480 Vila-Seca, Tarragona
 646778161
 www.rtelecom.net
 office@rtelecom.net

Spain
ISOTEST, S.L.
 C/ Brazomar 52A, nº 7, 39700 Castro-Urdiales, Cantabria, Spain
 944803040
 www.isotest.es
 isotest@isotest.es

[rf-loop]

After meditating on which one to buy, I decided on the Siglent.

I know that the Rigol is enough, but the Siglent seems more modern, and will give me more benefits in the future, and as I said before, the price difference is not a problem.

Now I need advice on where to buy it in Europe, and if there is any kind of discount or offer that can benefit me.

Batronix (in Germany)

They are serving whole europe and least my personal experience with Batronix have been always excellent what ever I have purchased from them.

[Mr. Scram]

Using  SCPI commands 
WAVEFORM_SETUP | WFSU
WAVEFORM? | WF?
The waveform record must be read from the oscilloscope by the controller using two separate commands.
With setup you define data what you want, including possible decimation etc and with WF you ask data.

Programming Guide, version E02,  pages 178 to 191

And about communication pages 11 - 13 
( and other pages with examples )

(Disclaimer: This is only from manuals, not my self tested irl)

Thanks for your trouble. From the overwhelming lack of people reporting that the Siglents are capable of this, I gather they're not or no one has actually tried?

[bielas]

https://www.siglenteu.com/how-to-buy/

Spain
R Telecom Iberia S.L.U.
 C/ Vilafortuny 23, Nave 7 43480 Vila-Seca, Tarragona
 646778161
 www.rtelecom.net
 office@rtelecom.net

Spain
ISOTEST, S.L.
 C/ Brazomar 52A, nº 7, 39700 Castro-Urdiales, Cantabria, Spain
 944803040
 www.isotest.es
 isotest@isotest.es

Thanks for the info. Anyway I'm seeing that the prices are lower in other distributors like Batronix o batterfly.

After meditating on which one to buy, I decided on the Siglent.

I know that the Rigol is enough, but the Siglent seems more modern, and will give me more benefits in the future, and as I said before, the price difference is not a problem.

Now I need advice on where to buy it in Europe, and if there is any kind of discount or offer that can benefit me.

Batronix (in Germany)

They are serving whole europe and least my personal experience with Batronix have been always excellent what ever I have purchased from them.

After looking at prices in several distributors in Europe, Batronix and batterfly has the lowest prices.
You know if they apply some kind of discount for members of eevblog  and what is the procedure to get them?

[tautech]

https://www.siglenteu.com/how-to-buy/

Spain
R Telecom Iberia S.L.U.
 C/ Vilafortuny 23, Nave 7 43480 Vila-Seca, Tarragona
 646778161
 www.rtelecom.net
 office@rtelecom.net

Spain
ISOTEST, S.L.
 C/ Brazomar 52A, nº 7, 39700 Castro-Urdiales, Cantabria, Spain
 944803040
 www.isotest.es
 isotest@isotest.es

Thanks for the info. Anyway I'm seeing that the prices are lower in other distributors like Batronix o batterfly.

After meditating on which one to buy, I decided on the Siglent.

I know that the Rigol is enough, but the Siglent seems more modern, and will give me more benefits in the future, and as I said before, the price difference is not a problem.

Now I need advice on where to buy it in Europe, and if there is any kind of discount or offer that can benefit me.

Batronix (in Germany)

They are serving whole europe and least my personal experience with Batronix have been always excellent what ever I have purchased from them.

After looking at prices in several distributors in Europe, Batronix and batterfly has the lowest prices.
You know if they apply some kind of discount for members of eevblog  and what is the procedure to get them?

Contact them and inform them you were pointed to them from EEVblog and ask for their best price so you can refer other sales to them from EEVblog.
You could try PM'ing member simone.pignatti as he works for an EU Siglent seller.
Good luck.