Author Topic: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon  (Read 1322526 times)

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Offline Carrington

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2075 on: October 05, 2013, 02:51:54 pm »
After 72h per cover on acid:
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2076 on: October 05, 2013, 03:17:29 pm »
Thanks guys!

I asked Richtek for samples, but I don't have a company, so will see what they say!

Lemon, thanks for the offer, I may have to take you up on it!
 

Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2077 on: October 05, 2013, 04:48:11 pm »
You are lucky that Owon are sending you new boards. In my case I am still waiting for the UK dealer to "authorise" my claim. I believe it is Chinese New Year however so maybe that's why I have not heard back from them.

I think that Chinese New Year was February 2013, not now.
If you see that for 15 days you haven't any respond from your dealer, send another one email and if there is no any lucky with him, send to Owon technical department your request and your situation with your dealer.

After 72h per cover on acid:

I am tired to mine, a lot of litres of acid = a lot of money.
As I told you, I have no any continuity on shielding surface now and I am perfect with a very low gnd_noise.

As you can see, I have open a new thread Comparison of oscilloscopes ground noise, urging others members to upload their oscilloscope measurement.
There was no any great participation in that discussion and as you can see, a member reported that with this method we can not be exported reliable results btw different oscilloscopes, while another member suggested instead of using the probe to use a BNC shorting cap directly on the input connector.

The interesting was the uploaded captures from a Rigol - probably a DS1052 or something similar - with the cheap Chinese Probe (like ours) the Rigol was at 80mV about and with expensive Tektronics Probe it was 20mV about.

Mine after all modifications to this test with the BNC Shorting Cap has 12-16mV (10X) on CH1 and 14-18mV on CH2.
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2078 on: October 06, 2013, 03:09:16 pm »
As you can see, I have open a new thread Comparison of oscilloscopes ground noise, urging others members to upload their oscilloscope measurement.
There was no any great participation in that discussion and as you can see, a member reported that with this method we can not be exported reliable results btw different oscilloscopes, while another member suggested instead of using the probe to use a BNC shorting cap directly on the input connector.

The interesting was the uploaded captures from a Rigol - probably a DS1052 or something similar - with the cheap Chinese Probe (like ours) the Rigol was at 80mV about and with expensive Tektronics Probe it was 20mV about.

Mine after all modifications to this test with the BNC Shorting Cap has 12-16mV (10X) on CH1 and 14-18mV on CH2.
I can see where the method that we've been using can give unreliable results, but using a shorting cap will not show the GND noise produced by the Owon, it will basically just show the baseline noise plus a minimal amount of GND noise produced by the subtle unbalance of the shorting cap connections.

So even with the knowledge that external interference can skew the traditional GND noise test that we've been doing, I believe that the results more truly reflect the usability of our Owon scopes when it comes to viewing low level signals. We have always advocated to do the test in an environment that minimizes outside interference, however, excluding the interference from, for example, strong FM radio stations, would require more Draconian measures, like for example, a Faraday cage.

That is unpractical for most of us. Perhaps a more subtle approach would be to advocate using ferrites on the probe cables of our cheap Owon probes to make them function more like expensive Tek probes. This would minimize the antenna effect of the probe cable and is much less of a Draconian measure as opposed to using a Faraday cage.
 

Offline BBAAHHOO

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2079 on: October 06, 2013, 04:40:49 pm »
Hello everyone. I see my record of 12 ... 20mV still has not mastered  :P Although I can `t do it myself yet s top ... Interference from the LCD screen is not getting smaller ...  :-//
 

Offline Carrington

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2080 on: October 06, 2013, 07:36:54 pm »
Hello everyone. I see my record of 12 ... 20mV still has not mastered  :P Although I can `t do it myself yet s top ... Interference from the LCD screen is not getting smaller ...  :-//

In my opinion is worse interference in the LCD/Power connector.
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2081 on: October 06, 2013, 08:02:56 pm »
Hello everyone. I see my record of 12 ... 20mV still has not mastered  :P Although I can `t do it myself yet s top ... Interference from the LCD screen is not getting smaller ...  :-//

Please, remember me which version of adapter you have? If you have the adapter version 3.0 we have very good noise result from the LCD Backlight Circuit (look here), but the tft display has no any shielding and radiates everywhere...

You are still the Lord of Noise!
 

Offline BBAAHHOO

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2082 on: October 07, 2013, 12:41:49 am »
Here is my version of the adapter. LCD Backlight no noise :)
 

Offline TNb

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2083 on: October 07, 2013, 08:37:41 am »
Hi! Just wanted to contribute to discussion about Owons.
I read a lot of bad issues with SDS series, sometimes they just don't work at all. But anyway I bought SDS5032E for education purposes and it is absolutely fine, everything works great, calibration is fine, have nothing bad to say about it for 200$.
So, if you wanna cheap scope - quite good I think. Although you always can run into broken one, but don't be so upset, usually good sellers from e-bay accept refunding.
 

Offline akis

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2084 on: October 07, 2013, 09:05:12 am »

That is unpractical for most of us. Perhaps a more subtle approach would be to advocate using ferrites on the probe cables of our cheap Owon probes to make them function more like expensive Tek probes. This would minimize the antenna effect of the probe cable and is much less of a Draconian measure as opposed to using a Faraday cage.

I have bought more expensive probes plus my Alanogue Bechman Industrial's probes and they all produce the same shitty results. The problems are not with the probes.

As many of you have seen when I started this thread a year ago ( I think I was the first to complain that the scope was defective ) , I am not trying to view minute signals, to the contrary the Owon hits trouble with signals as large as +/-100mV or much greater. As the scope has been sold with a 3 year warranty, I fail to see what kind of warranty this is that fails to recognise the severe fault but instead asks the users to either "grin and bear it" or replace some adapter cards that cost $50 (or was it more) and would surely invalidate the warranty once you open and hack inside the scope!

In this case I believe that since there is a demonstrable problem, Owon should be recalling the affected scopes and repairing them free of charge to the user. There must be laws in the US they are breaking by either not honouring the warranty or by asking users to do their own repairs and have to pay for it.
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2085 on: October 07, 2013, 03:05:41 pm »

That is unpractical for most of us. Perhaps a more subtle approach would be to advocate using ferrites on the probe cables of our cheap Owon probes to make them function more like expensive Tek probes. This would minimize the antenna effect of the probe cable and is much less of a Draconian measure as opposed to using a Faraday cage.

I have bought more expensive probes plus my Alanogue Bechman Industrial's probes and they all produce the same shitty results. The problems are not with the probes.

As many of you have seen when I started this thread a year ago ( I think I was the first to complain that the scope was defective ) , I am not trying to view minute signals, to the contrary the Owon hits trouble with signals as large as +/-100mV or much greater. As the scope has been sold with a 3 year warranty, I fail to see what kind of warranty this is that fails to recognise the severe fault but instead asks the users to either "grin and bear it" or replace some adapter cards that cost $50 (or was it more) and would surely invalidate the warranty once you open and hack inside the scope!

In this case I believe that since there is a demonstrable problem, Owon should be recalling the affected scopes and repairing them free of charge to the user. There must be laws in the US they are breaking by either not honouring the warranty or by asking users to do their own repairs and have to pay for it.
I think you'll find agreement from many of the members that frequent this thread for must of what you say here!

The suggestion about the ferrites on the probe cables improves the immunity to outside interference, but doesn't do much in regards to the Owon's conductive GND noise. Neither would more expensive probes.

So far Owon hasn't acknowledged the GND noise problem as something covered under their 3 year warranty. The excuse has to do with the fact that the problem is associated with the use of long ground leads, but doesn't seem to affect operation when the scope is connected to the signal source by more noise proof methods, for example the short ground clip, or a scope probe test point.

You'll find that there is extensive disagreement with this position among our members. I for one feel that although GND noise caused by external sources is not Owon's problem, it's a different matter when the GND noise comes from the Owon itself as is the case here, even if it's only associated with the use of long ground leads.

However, there isn't much that we can do about it other than keep complaining or try to mitigate the problem ourselves. As far as laws are concerned, I think the facts of the case could be difficult and expensive to prove, and the outcome of fair restitution would be difficult to achieve.

In the meantime, Owon seems to have corrected the problem as per reports of new customers since June 2013. So the problem still persists only for users with older units that haven't upgraded to the newer boards.
 

Offline Filip Jukic

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2086 on: October 07, 2013, 04:38:39 pm »
Hi everyone, i bought SDS7102V scope few days ago and i have question about it's FFT function.
I put DC signal from battery in one channel and measurement says voltage is 8.4V. When i turn FFT i can see big spike at 0Hz but it is not 8.4V, it is about 11.6V.
Does it need to be 8.4V??
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2087 on: October 07, 2013, 05:18:22 pm »
Hi everyone, i bought SDS7102V scope few days ago and i have question about it's FFT function.
I put DC signal from battery in one channel and measurement says voltage is 8.4V. When i turn FFT i can see big spike at 0Hz but it is not 8.4V, it is about 11.6V.
Does it need to be 8.4V??
As far as I know this initial spike is meaningless and always occurs regardless of where the probe is connected.
 

Offline Filip Jukic

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2088 on: October 08, 2013, 11:49:06 am »
Hi everyone, i bought SDS7102V scope few days ago and i have question about it's FFT function.
I put DC signal from battery in one channel and measurement says voltage is 8.4V. When i turn FFT i can see big spike at 0Hz but it is not 8.4V, it is about 11.6V.
Does it need to be 8.4V??
As far as I know this initial spike is meaningless and always occurs regardless of where the probe is connected.
Are you sure??
What the others think?
 

Offline AndrejaKo

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2089 on: October 08, 2013, 02:42:18 pm »
I don't have the manual with me right now, but I think that explicitly says to run FFT on AC mode only and to expect issues with DC mode FFT.  That would make it impossible to do DC FFT, so battery results can't be relied upon.

Here's a quote from the manual:"DC component or offset can cause incorrect magnitude values of FFT waveform. To
minimize the DC component, choose AC Coupling on the source signal." I'm not sure what they expect us to do when DC component is needed.


Also what are exact settings on your scope? I'd like to try to reproduce the behavior. I'll need trigger level and type, timebase, memory length, voltage range, as well as the actual FFT settings.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 02:51:25 pm by AndrejaKo »
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2090 on: October 08, 2013, 02:59:52 pm »
Hi everyone, i bought SDS7102V scope few days ago and i have question about it's FFT function.
I put DC signal from battery in one channel and measurement says voltage is 8.4V. When i turn FFT i can see big spike at 0Hz but it is not 8.4V, it is about 11.6V.
Does it need to be 8.4V??
As far as I know this initial spike is meaningless and always occurs regardless of where the probe is connected.
Are you sure??
What the others think?
Connect CH1 to GND and run FFT. What do you see?
 

Offline Filip Jukic

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2091 on: October 08, 2013, 03:36:17 pm »
@AndrejaKo
I just found it in manual. And the point is in AC coupling :)
Settings on the scope are:
Trigger: single, AC, rising edge, Auto
Time base: irrelevant
Memory: 10M
Voltage range: 5V or 2V
FFT window: irrelevant
Format: Vrms
X1

@TomC
When i connect CH1 (AC coupl.) to scope GND i get this:

 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2092 on: October 09, 2013, 02:03:27 am »
@AndrejaKo
I just found it in manual. And the point is in AC coupling :)
Settings on the scope are:
Trigger: single, AC, rising edge, Auto
Time base: irrelevant
Memory: 10M
Voltage range: 5V or 2V
FFT window: irrelevant
Format: Vrms
X1

@TomC
When i connect CH1 (AC coupl.) to scope GND i get this:
OK, for that test I believe you had CH1's trace on the center line. Now try setting the CH1 trace two divisions below or above the center line, coupling AC or DC shouldn't matter. Go to FFT and show us what you see. If your scope works the same as mine you should see that initial spike.
 

Offline Filip Jukic

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2093 on: October 09, 2013, 09:03:54 am »
Yes i see 0Hz spike, it is wierd..... i think red marker (1) on the left of the screen should be referent not center of the screen, but it is not big problem, before doing FFT i just need to put CH to the center. Am I right?
 

Offline testerc0

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2094 on: October 09, 2013, 12:28:12 pm »
Hi, all. Who knows, if I buy a chinese version, for example, http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=22075116206, is it possible to somehow set the English there?
 

Offline Filip Jukic

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2095 on: October 09, 2013, 12:54:17 pm »
Hi, all. Who knows, if I buy a chinese version, for example, http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=22075116206, is it possible to somehow set the English there?

You can select eng language, so there is no problem.
 

Offline testerc0

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2096 on: October 09, 2013, 01:34:07 pm »
In owon tech support say, that in this chinese version no english language and they do not upgrade to english. can someone else has already bought a version like as the link above
 

Offline AndrejaKo

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2097 on: October 09, 2013, 01:43:33 pm »
I don't have any personal experience with this, but I know that one user did buy Chinese version and that it had no English option. I also know that he did manage to upgrade from Chinese to export version via software, but he had to pay Owon some amount of money for the firmware. If I remember correctly, the story is somewhere inside of this thread.

I think that the user was sold Chinese version with a claim from Owon that it does support English and that's the reason why they allowed him to upgrade, but I'm not sure. That was few years ago, back when SDS was new.

Also I think that the SDS for Chinese market has a different prefix. I think its EDS-C for domestic version of SDS, but again I'm not sure that all scopes marked SDS are the export version.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 01:52:14 pm by AndrejaKo »
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2098 on: October 09, 2013, 04:00:01 pm »
Yes i see 0Hz spike, it is wierd..... i think red marker (1) on the left of the screen should be referent not center of the screen, but it is not big problem, before doing FFT i just need to put CH to the center. Am I right?
Myself, I either do that or ignore the spike.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2099 on: October 09, 2013, 05:04:34 pm »
New adapter board version. (not for older scopes)

Older scopes can use V3.3 adapter latest upgraded versions.

But overall this V4.4 tell that Owon have done "hard work" and they have take this case really seriously. But they have talked less and worked more.

I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 


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