Author Topic: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon  (Read 1315279 times)

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Offline Sarasir

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2600 on: August 31, 2014, 03:22:48 am »
Hi lemon + TomC,

of course the denoised converters have to go back into the scope. The supply connection (plus and minus) to the main PCB should then be done with wires to free the z-plane from any conducting current. That is because clean DC at the output of the converters doesn't mean automatically that it will also be clean at the other end of any conducting media - either wires or z-plane. As the current draft of the main PCB is very noisy there will be noise as well one a conductor due to it's impedance and therefore unwanted HF radiation will take place again.
The wires if necessary can be even shielded but not the z-plane which in turn should actuall serve as part of an internal Cage of Faraday and therefore will be connected only to the input BNC's of course including the external trigger input.


TomC, I said that there might be even a bit more level if the probe arrangement will be shielded due to the blocked direct radiation to it. But I doubt that that will be noticeable as it is a very very small portion of the whole radiation that arrives there I guess.

But as you said, any prediction is difficult here.
 

Offline Sarasir

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2601 on: September 01, 2014, 09:30:45 pm »
Hi TomC,

so here the resulte with the probe arrangement shielded.

The common mode noise is still there but a little less. I guess thats because the shield - a aluminum container for calcium tablets my hungarian girlfriend left years ago which I soldered (got me some aluminum solder flux recently - it's super!) to the Bottom of the little PCB - draws part of the radiation and closes the loop for this part before the probe arrangement. I forgot that in my prediction, that a nearby metal of course will 'catch' a certain amount of the emissions and as - once more - this metal is soldered to the common joint this part of the emissions does not exist for the 'outside world' anymore.

The screwdriver, again placed as in the test before, increases the noise level again as it also draws emissions but they are not fed back to the converter's ground directly but rather go 'into the air' (Finally they will of course also return but rather through me, through everything around that's conducting, the power cords, whatever, finally reaching the scope and the probe to close in the circle)  So this draw increases the return current through the probe's ground lead which because of it's impedance that can only provide a poor HF connection between the probe's sleeve and the ground connection at the switcher's BNC, and consequently the level at the tip of the probe increases as well.
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2602 on: September 02, 2014, 02:15:16 am »
Hi Sarasir,

Thanks for performing this test and posting the results!

I have to admit that the result of the shielded test was not quite as I imagined, I thought there would be a more significant decrease in noise than what it actually turned out to be. The slight increase in noise with the screwdriver test however is about what I expected.

Again, thanks for the very interesting series of tests!

PS: Thanks for mentioning the aluminum flux, quite a few times I've wanted to solder aluminum but didn't know there was a product designed for this.
 

Offline Sarasir

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2603 on: October 08, 2014, 09:27:58 am »
Hi TomC,

Yes, of course your welcome and once more to say, there is always someting new I learn from your ideas...

Sorry for not responding for long time but I was very busy with other projects and just today read your last post.
(I also just forgot to go to the next page and also asked myself what might have happend to you guys...)

As to the flux: clean the aluminum with a glass brush/eraser before applying the flux. This removes the strong oxide and the flux then removes the immediately generated new one but still much thinner surface oxide.  Aluminum then can be soldered like chopper or tin sheet. There where various offers on the web and I decided for the simple flux only. Other methods try to sell you more things but with the glass brush or a fine sand paper it's just perfect.

And to the Owon, I redisigned the 5.6V converter, crashed the chip because of a layout fault (even on the tiniest layout sometimes I arrive to oversee something important) and had to order me new controller chips (Digi-Key of Minnesota is really perfectly fast). Also started with the -7.4 converter as I think it should also go into the common little converter tin box as I can see no reson for it to stay on the main PSU board.

Will post the result as soon as possible.

Till then keep up the good spirit...
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 09:31:18 am by Sarasir »
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2604 on: October 08, 2014, 03:53:54 pm »
Sounds good! :-+

Looking forward to the test results!
 

Offline Sarasir

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2605 on: November 25, 2014, 10:16:50 am »
Hi TomC,

finally another step! Should anybody still checking, here the results of denoising the + 5.5V converter (became quiet her, what happened? I also have lots of other things to do but every third day or so I'm able to spend a few houres continuing the SDS-Free-Of-Noise-Project)

So, a few things to say about this switcher:

It behaves a bit different than the +3.3V (the 5.5 controller is not from Texas Instruments). Killed two chips untill I found out that it is very critical concerning the input. Therefor one 33uF Tantal is placed directly on the chip's input. The reason is that the 15uH torroid I used for the filter out the main switching frequency towards the 8.4V input - don't know if it is actually necessary but want to have the thing as clean as possible - 'softens' or correctly said, increases the supply impedance for the controller too much causing it to work more or less erratic. The TI controller of the +3.3V switcher didn't show any problem with a 15uH coil at it's input but I think I will give it also some more uFs for to be on the sure side,

Another difference between these chips is that the Alpha & Omega chip exhibits much more low frequency noise,
and there where ocasional sharp transients on the output of about +/- up to 2 mV. I'm still not sure but got rid of them after some houres of testing different layouts and also replacing the chip several times.

It's very time consuming to trace things like that down and perhaps another chip might be used eventually but do not think that's really necessary as the +5.5V in turn mostly supplies other converters and regulators - we'll see.

You can see the low F noise on the pics showing the output voltage.

I do not have pics of the performance of the original circuit/PCB layout as my 1st SDS's adapter PCB is depopulated and my 2nd SDS I would have to take the adapter PCB out as otherwise there is also the noise generated by the supplied circuitry and therefor no definite measurement could be made. But as far as I remember the noise of the original is far more - in the 50 to 100mV region if not more.

On the pics you can also see some switching noise remainder on the input but that I'm sure will be gone after the circuit has been shielded entirely. I just did not have the time to do that here especially as I know it's effect quite well from denoising the +3.3V converter.

So, hope somebody will read and that it will not take too long to have the next result ready.

Best wishes

 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2606 on: November 25, 2014, 05:10:16 pm »
Hi Sarasir,

Congratulations on your design and layout! :-+

The noise is very low, I would say as good as a linear PS!
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2607 on: December 15, 2014, 03:10:06 am »
Have you seen Owon mixed signal scopes? Please note that they cannot display digital and analog channels at the same time.

Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2608 on: December 21, 2014, 07:36:12 am »
Hi guys,

I just started a new thread on the Owon AG1012F Arbitrary Waveform Generator. I bought one of these AWGs from Saelig during cyberweek on impulse. The price for the AG1012F was $239, which is about the maximum I was willing to spend for my hobby. I didn't really take the time to properly research other AWGs in the same price range, mainly, because I already own an Owon SDS7102 DSO and I wanted the ability of playing back waveforms captured on it on the AWG. Since I didn't have much time before  the sale ended and it didn't seem to me that this would be possible without going through major conversion gymnastics if I bought a different make, I went ahead and bought the Owon. Now, for good or for bad, my AWG for the foreseable future is going to be the Owon AG1012F!

I've been playing with my new unit for about a week, and since there is no other EEVblog thread on this unit, I gave it a new thread to document my experiences and give others a chance to contribute or comment.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-ag1012f-arbitray-waveform-generator/msg572316/#msg572316
 

Offline tkjtkj

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2609 on: January 05, 2015, 04:39:43 pm »
The test: It is 46 mV Vpp.

update: Exactly after 21:00 its
12 -14 mV Vpp  --- acquire peakdetect
8 mV Vpp          ---acquire Average 4

Owon: DS7102V
serieno: SDS71021407522
version: 3.5

Very good results!
I see a new firmware 3.5!
At Owon's site the fw is 3.3 still!

I happily received my new SDS7201V (for 'VGA capable) but I can't find where it displays it's existing firmware:  it boots to a useless non-informative 'OWON' screen, then immediately to the scope .. not exactly an 'auspicious' beginning!   Tried holding down the top 'start' button during boot .. nothing.   Went to owon.com 's site for firmware , entered Ser.No.  , which was answered thusly:  " You already have the latest firmware"  ..  pretty UNhelpful!!
There must be a way!
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2610 on: January 05, 2015, 05:11:03 pm »
Hi tkjtkj,

Use the utility function as described on pages 63 - 64 of the manual. The attachments are the images straight from the manual. The firmware version is displayed when you press "ABOUT".

Good luck with your new scope! :-+
 

Offline KTy

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2611 on: January 18, 2015, 06:28:57 pm »
Hi guys,

My OWON HDS2062M died (for the second time) and I don't plan to invest more time and money in it... :-BROKE :palm: I got it for quite some time and it was ok for me, even though it had obvious flows (UI and noise).

It is important for me to have handheld capability, hence I am naturally looking at the SDS7102 with its battery option.
I search this thread, but couldn't find anything specific about this mode: is there anything outstanding (good or bad) when operated from battery ?

Last question: Are there "better" handheld scope alternatives (or scope with battery option), up to 1000/1500EUR ?!

Thanks for this gold-mine thread and overall site ! :clap:
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2612 on: January 18, 2015, 07:03:16 pm »
Hi KTy,

I own an SDS7102, although I don't have a battery option I can give you some general information.

Keep in mind that the SDS7102 is not really a handheld unit, although it's quite compact and light for a 100MHz DSO. The battery option is usually about $50  to $60 extra. When fully charged, it can last up to 4 hours depending on what you are doing with the DSO. Some members have reported a slight increase in noise when using the battery.

Hope that helps!
 

Offline marmadTopic starter

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2613 on: January 18, 2015, 07:17:18 pm »
It is important for me to have handheld capability, hence I am naturally looking at the SDS7102 with its battery option.
I search this thread, but couldn't find anything specific about this mode: is there anything outstanding (good or bad) when operated from battery ?

Although the SDS7102 can run off of a battery, it is not the same as a true, double-insulated, handheld scope - so you shouldn't do floating measurements with it above about 30V. This is stated in the owners manual, where it says:
"When powered by battery, the product must have ground connection. To avoid electric shock, there must be a ground wire connect between ground and the ground port (on the back of product panel)."
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 07:18:57 pm by marmad »
 

Offline KTy

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2614 on: January 19, 2015, 08:17:19 am »
Ok guys, I hear you.
I really need autonomous capability, I measure stuff in engines environment.
So, going slightly off-topic, is there a proper handheld scope in my budget beside OWON ? (I need to look into those "-N" version if they are any good/better)
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2615 on: January 19, 2015, 09:04:28 am »
It is important for me to have handheld capability, hence I am naturally looking at the SDS7102 with its battery option.
I search this thread, but couldn't find anything specific about this mode: is there anything outstanding (good or bad) when operated from battery ?

Although the SDS7102 can run off of a battery, it is not the same as a true, double-insulated, handheld scope - so you shouldn't do floating measurements with it above about 30V. This is stated in the owners manual, where it says:
"When powered by battery, the product must have ground connection. To avoid electric shock, there must be a ground wire connect between ground and the ground port (on the back of product panel)."

Yes if we talk about "usual" use in "usual" environment.

But, it also depends...

It can of course use for floating mesurements with high voltages if we also follow tight rules for this work.
But, it is professionals work who also fully understand what he is doing and can himself design and do what he is doing and following all working safety rules.  No one without enough experience, knowledge and education (and in some cases also certificate for it) must not do it or even try.  I know it exatly, I have been there previously and not only once. In my profession history I have been in industry where we really need do work in case where process can not allways shut off and we need do lot of work in running live systems. many times we repair and made changes just in fly without shut of machines. It is very fun to keep small 300kW motor running and change its main contactors and all works so that there was electric on and system running. There really need know what to do or... you breath in copper vapor and die if not die with electric shock or burn due to arc.  Also many times there need do some measurements in 5kV power system. With normal tools but  with very extremely deep care you self stay floating and well isolated.  Yes I also know what read in deep inspection when one work friend die, due to just one small mistake.   

DO NOT high voltage (or high current with low voltages) floating measuremeents if you really do not know. You need know, and not only believe you know, before these kind of works. I do not worry your life but I worry your mother, faather, sister, couple, childrens and insurance company.
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 

Offline KTy

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2616 on: January 19, 2015, 09:39:49 am »
Thanks for your feedback.
One thing I should have mentioned is that the "engine" I am referring to are "petrol engines"  ^-^
I measure small signals up to 500V, AC.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2617 on: January 19, 2015, 09:54:41 am »
Thanks for your feedback.
One thing I should have mentioned is that the "engine" I am referring to are "petrol engines"  ^-^
I measure small signals up to 500V, AC.
Have you looked at the Siglent SHS series?
1000 series have isolated inputs and CAT II 1000V rating.
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pd.aspx?tid=2&T=1
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Offline marmadTopic starter

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2618 on: January 19, 2015, 10:00:05 am »
Thanks for your feedback.
One thing I should have mentioned is that the "engine" I am referring to are "petrol engines"  ^-^
I measure small signals up to 500V, AC.

You might want to read through this recent thread on handheld scopes - a lot of good information in it from users of various models.
 

Offline KTy

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2619 on: January 19, 2015, 10:17:21 am »
Thanks for your feedback.
One thing I should have mentioned is that the "engine" I am referring to are "petrol engines"  ^-^
I measure small signals up to 500V, AC.
Have you looked at the Siglent SHS series?
1000 series have isolated inputs and CAT II 1000V rating.
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pd.aspx?tid=2&T=1

Thanks, I will check.
I tried a Hantek DSO8060 and had to returned it due to the unreasonable noise level (200mV or so... :wtf:).

Can anyone compare a SDS7102 with a HDS3102M-N in terms of accuracy/noise level ?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 10:48:54 am by KTy »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2620 on: January 19, 2015, 10:51:18 am »
Thanks for your feedback.
One thing I should have mentioned is that the "engine" I am referring to are "petrol engines"  ^-^
I measure small signals up to 500V, AC.
Have you looked at the Siglent SHS series?
1000 series have isolated inputs and CAT II 1000V rating.
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pd.aspx?tid=2&T=1

Thanks, I will check.
I tried a Hantek DSO8060 and had to returned it due to the unreasonable noise level (200mV or so... :wtf:).

Can anyone compare a SDS7102 with a HDS3102M-N in terms of accuracy/noise level ?
PM me or post for any checks/tests you'd like me to do with my SHS810.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2621 on: January 19, 2015, 11:48:19 am »
Thanks for your feedback.
One thing I should have mentioned is that the "engine" I am referring to are "petrol engines"  ^-^
I measure small signals up to 500V, AC.

You need know what you are doing and all safety things for protecct yourself. Human safety is number one!

But then also 500VAc from 0 cross to peak is +710V or -710V

You need look oscilloscope input specifications for maximum level but of course also probe specifications!
No way with 1x/10x probe. (first there come V limit but also if accidentally you turn probe for 1x then good bye to scope input. Broken, permamnently. And in worst case more - it may leak (short circuit) to scope ground.

Minimum is that you buy good trusted HV probe what also have safety classified for HV use. After then you need also know how to work safe. I suspect this some amount because you need ask. (sorry this suspect but I have seen so much in tens of years what all can happend. I have also loosed some my work friend in electric accident in industry (and he was educated and experienced professional)

Do not even try with these probes what come with oscillosscope. They are for low voltage use. Small signals, if you mean small current signals but these high voltages. It do not need much of current to kill people. And kill oscilloscope input do not need even this current what may kill people.
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 

Offline vysitor

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2622 on: January 19, 2015, 01:07:58 pm »
Hi everybody!!!  I´ve been reading your posts regarding OWON SDS series DSO´s and I´m quite surprised by the very few complaints about display colors.

I´ve just purchased an SDS7102V DSO and so far I´m very satisfied with its performance; however, one of the first things I wanted to change was display colors,  and it was frustrating to find out that OWON´s designers don´t offer users the freedom to customize display colors... - not even a choice of "skins".

I find the red trace ugly and with poor contrast + CH1 data is displayed in red characters on a black background which are almost unreadable.  (I might be a little red-color-blind :P)

I believe RED should be used only for warnings when something goes really wrong.

I´m not an experienced programmer, but there is no doubt that display colors won´t affect the instrument´s performance and changing them should be very easy.  Most probably CH1´s color could be changed by simply changing the value of a two-byte integer in a single line of code.

Has anybody examined OWON´s fw? ... - I believe "tinhead" has made huge advances.

I am not interested in hacking any other features, I only want to get a clear view of the waveform´s shape and data.
After all, THAT is the very purpose DSO´s are built for.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.
 

Offline cncjerry

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2623 on: January 19, 2015, 06:02:37 pm »

I find the red trace ugly and with poor contrast + CH1 data is displayed in red characters on a black background which are almost unreadable.  (I might be a little red-color-blind :P)

I've lost a fair amount of my eyesight to glaucoma so I sympathize with you, but you must be color blind to some degree because I find the contrast and readability of the scope to be fine.  I would love to be able to change the colors though as I find the red/yellow combination to be less than optimal, or to put a finer point on it, not to be my first choice in colors.

Someone mentioned the colors from the Chinese flag played a role in the selection...
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #2624 on: January 19, 2015, 06:22:14 pm »


Someone mentioned the colors from the Chinese flag played a role in the selection...

It was my joke.... but who knows...chhinese like red and yellow.
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 


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