\( \renewcommand{\renewcommand}{} \)

Author Topic: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon  (Read 595767 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tinhead

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1786
  • Country: 00
    • If you like my hacks, send me a donation
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2011, 11:29:31 AM »
OK you need to stay off the meds... or get some.

http://www.tek.com/Measurement/scopes/selection/performance/acquisition.html#record

funny guy, what will be the next ? link of Tektronix TDS2012C with awsome 2.5k sample memory?
I have here TDS2012 and i'm using it as ashtray since i got my Tekway.
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.

Offline gregariz

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • Country: us
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2011, 11:37:00 AM »
OK you need to stay off the meds... or get some.

http://www.tek.com/Measurement/scopes/selection/performance/acquisition.html#record

funny guy, what will be the next ? link of Tektronix TDS2012C with awsome 2.5k sample memory?
I have here TDS2012 and i'm using it as ashtray since i got my Tekway.

There was an excellent reason that when you asked marmad to change the memory depth that the picture didnt change. Its the same reason that I don't really need memory depth. Its a shame about the TDS2012...

Offline marmad

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2932
  • Country: aq
    • DaysAlive
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #52 on: August 12, 2011, 11:40:30 AM »
Quote
Its going to be hard to find a larger screen than the Owon at the moment in this price bracket.

I mentioned 800 pixels wide which the Hantek's have.  And they have models in this price bracket.  And they have been hacked,  disassembled, and reverse engineered by the guy you're arguing with - a guy who is perhaps the most knowledgeable guy when it comes to low cost DSO's on this blog - so if he says the Atten sucks - I'd believe him that it sucks.

BTW, just as an aside, I think I won't be using the 10Mpts all that often either, but just in case I need to do data logging - or long-term recording looking for a glitch - I sure will appreciate all the memory.

Edit:  BTW, the Owon can record up to a 1000 frames at up to a 1000 seconds apart - thats almost 12 days of logging.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 11:44:42 AM by marmad »

Offline gregariz

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • Country: us
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2011, 11:46:49 AM »
Quote
Its going to be hard to find a larger screen than the Owon at the moment in this price bracket.

I mentioned 800 pixels wide which the Hantek's have.  And they have models in this price bracket.  And they have been hacked,  disassembled, and reverse engineered by the guy you're arguing with - a guy who is perhaps the most knowledgeable guy when it comes to low cost DSO's on this blog - so if he says the Atten sucks - I'd believe him that it sucks.

BTW, just as an aside, I think I won't be using the 10Mpts all that often either, but just in case I need to do data logging - or long-term recording looking for a glitch - I sure will appreciate all the memory.

This is just a blog... I've been in this game for quite a few years, I am highly qualified, highly experience and I have never met 'the most knowledgeable guy' who knew what he was talking about all the time. So no-one should believe everything that anyone says on here... not me, not him, not dave.

Offline bertchai

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 20
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2011, 01:00:00 PM »
Guys, I understand that you guys are very experience, but everyone is free to express their opinion, what he prefers and needs (which I respect).  Attacking each other will not help in term of sharing experience and opinion (of course you don't have to agree in all opinion).

Offline gregariz

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • Country: us
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #55 on: August 12, 2011, 01:33:49 PM »
Guys, I understand that you guys are very experience, but everyone is free to express their opinion, what he prefers and needs (which I respect).  Attacking each other will not help in term of sharing experience and opinion (of course you don't have to agree in all opinion).

You are right bertchai, but I'll tell you why I come into this thread... its not just about this scope... quite a few reviews on the blog are in the same vane. People get caught up in some kind of academic masturbation on specifications.

Such as the multimeter thread... if you were new to the field you could think that if you didn't spend $250 on a multimeter that had a micro-amps range then what you have isn't worth having. Its nonsense. Most engineers never use that setting - which is why manufacturers don't often include them. Same with true-rms. The truth is that if you didn't abuse it most people could get by just fine for design with a $20 chinese meter for many years.

Same with the scopes. Tektronics sell the TDS1000 and TDS2000 series with small record length's because they know that most engineers don't need single shot postprocessing.

I mentioned the Atten scope. Its easy to rubbish something that has a lower spec, but I know that most engineers never need most of the specifications. Its going to be great for 95% of users design requirements. Maybe its just easier to use - wouldnt that be a good reason to buy it?

I wouldn't have weighed in if what had been said was .... the Atten scope looked great but if you need deep record lengths you should consider something else. Rather... no qualification.. don't know what your talking about... bullshit ... yadaya.

Now if a scope or multimeter is simply not accurate that is something else.

Offline bertchai

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 20
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #56 on: August 12, 2011, 01:41:06 PM »
"No linear interpolation of points: not a biggie - but it can be handy sometimes."

I check the manuals in Rigol DS1000 series, Atten seises, Hantekway DS5120b series.
Only Atten has linear interpolation.  The rest only sin (x)/x

Have I missed something? or Hantekway, Rigol has been hacked to include linear interpolation?
 ;)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 03:37:20 PM by bertchai »

Offline bertchai

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 20
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2011, 01:54:27 PM »
@ gregariz
I partly agree with you that cheaper chinese products should be fine for casual use / careful use.  (Actually I am a Chinese.  hehe ) But on the other hand, the QC, robustness of these chinese product could be more inferior to big brand products like fluke, tek, and they simply die over the time even not used.   If I can afford, of course DSO from tek, LeCroy, etc, will be wonderful.  You can trust your measurements without any doubt anytime (especially for rookies like me).  When budget is a concern,  chinese DSO could be a good choice, but I can see that not all chinese brands are as good and hopefully find something good that I can still trust at low price.

Offline Bren

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: ca
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2011, 02:57:29 PM »
There's a great quote here somewhere..... oh yeah,

"I know that I know not" - Socrates

Perhaps take a page from a true master?

Offline bertchai

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 20
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2011, 04:08:36 PM »
Hantek 2500 wfrms/s
Rigol 2000 wfrms/s
Owon ? 


Offline marmad

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2932
  • Country: aq
    • DaysAlive
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #60 on: August 12, 2011, 09:47:30 PM »
Quote
I wouldn't have weighed in if what had been said was .... the Axxxx scope looked great but if you need deep record lengths you should consider something else.

Ok, seriously already, in a review thread of the Owon SDS7102 - a few posts after a long summary by me in which I specifically mention I don't like tiny screens - and post a screen size chart to reiterate that point - then end with a price comparison between the Owon and the Hantek, the other scope (with large screen) that I'm considering purchasing - you post a suggestion for a different cheap DSO with a tiny screen and a link to it's purchase.  To me this indicates one or more of the following:

a) You didn't read my summary.
b) You are unaware of the basic features of the DSO, such as screen size.
c) You are attempting to hijack the thread to a discussion about it since you are interested in it yourself.
d) You work or are connected to the company or the people that sell it.

In any case, that is the context.  So, given that, perhaps you can understand the reactions to your non sequitur post.  So PLEASE, in the interest of the thread, stop mentioning this other DSO here which has no bearing, connection, or relevance to anything I've written in my findings or review.  Thanks.

Quote
I am highly qualified, highly experience and I have never met 'the most knowledgeable guy' who knew what he was talking about all the time.

You'll notice I wrote "perhaps the most knowledgeable guy" in my original post - indicating that I've read his posts about the innards of cheap Chinese DSOs and, IMO, he has a lot of knowledge about the subject.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 10:28:07 PM by marmad »

Offline marmad

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2932
  • Country: aq
    • DaysAlive
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #61 on: August 12, 2011, 10:14:33 PM »
Quote
Hantek 2500 wfrms/s
Rigol 2000 wfrms/s
Owon ?

I don't know - and unfortunately I don't have the correct equipment to test it easily.  But I can say, observationally,  that refresh rates are very snappy; they don't seem to change due to memory depth (or if so, it's a tiny amount); and they don't get screwed up (flickering) by the act of accessing the scope from the PC, as the Rigol does in it's latest firmware.  Also, I have heard through channels that the Owon uses a good Samsung ARM MCU - the same family as the Hantek.

Offline marmad

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2932
  • Country: aq
    • DaysAlive
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2011, 11:01:05 PM »
I check the manuals in Rigol DS1000 series, Atten seises, Hantekway DS5120b series.
Only Atten has linear interpolation.  The rest only sin (x)/x

Strange... I just had the Rigol scope and I could have sworn that I remembered turning off sin(x)/x on it.  If not, my mistake - the comparison is not valid - I'll edit the post.

Offline bertchai

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 20
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #63 on: August 12, 2011, 11:51:37 PM »
I check the manuals in Rigol DS1000 series, Atten seises, Hantekway DS5120b series.
Only Atten has linear interpolation.  The rest only sin (x)/x

Strange... I just had the Rigol scope and I could have sworn that I remembered turning off sin(x)/x on it.  If not, my mistake - the comparison is not valid - I'll edit the post.

May be I am wrong.  I never have a Rigol scope.  I was checking and comparing manuals to see if I buy this SDS7102 I will be missing anything.
May be Rigol did have the choice of turning off sin(x)/x but they just never update the manual.  You know, after all, still cheaper chinese DSO.

Offline marmad

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2932
  • Country: aq
    • DaysAlive
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2011, 04:51:35 AM »
Latest update:

I've decided to keep the Owon - after doing some research and investigation into the hardware they're using.  I'll post Video Review Part 2 tomorrow - demonstrating the firmware - and explaining my findings.

It was a tough call between it and the Hantek - I might have gone with the Hantek if I hadn't gotten such a good price on the Owon - but that's just personal preference - hopefully the final review and summation will help others in the same boat as I.

Offline FreeThinker

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 791
  • Country: england
  • Truth through Thought
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2011, 05:15:38 AM »
Machines were mice and Men were lions once upon a time, but now that it's the opposite it's twice upon a time.
MOONDOG

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4445
  • Country: us
    • NIST
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2011, 05:31:56 AM »
Its good the measuring capabilities of the Rigol ~= Owon with the main differences being screen size, frequency response and some ergonomics.  In the end Owon cost about $100 US more, even with favorable price you found it at, so you are getting more scope for the money plus the larger screen of great importance to your basic usability. 

I think the Rigol does a crude linear interpolation if sinx is turned off.  There is a very interesting discussion here with some excellent analyses done by eevblog's jahonen using very righteous gear.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=276.15
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 05:36:08 AM by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation

Offline marmad

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2932
  • Country: aq
    • DaysAlive
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2011, 05:48:10 AM »
Nice review looking forward to teardown (hack?)  ;D

Sorry, no teardown - I'm in my golden warranty period  :)  just harmless investigation, help, and data from some very reliable sources.

Its good the measuring capabilities of the Rigol ~= Owon with the main differences being screen size, frequency response and some ergonomics.  In the end Owon cost about $100 US more, even with favorable price you found it at, so you are getting more scope for the money plus the larger screen of great importance to your basic usability.

A theory has been put forth, based on some data, that Owon started development of the SDS line after Hantek bought Tekway.  The new Owon SDS line has some fairly impressive hardware, but clearly they have rushed them to market (evidenced by unfinished features like the LAN port; the slightly underdeveloped firmware; and low introductory prices).  Why?  They know that Hantek is releasing the BM and BMV line in a couple of months (with more memory) - plus the price of the low-end Rigols has been coming down, so it's possible Rigol is also planning a launch of a new product sometime soon.  It could be an interesting few months for low-end DSOs.  Unfortunately, I need one right now and can't wait to see how it shakes up  ;)

Quote
I think the Rigol does a crude linear interpolation if sinx is turned off.

Thanks for clarifying that, saturation.  I thought I remembered the ability to turn it off on the Rigol.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 05:52:26 AM by marmad »

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4445
  • Country: us
    • NIST
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2011, 06:13:19 AM »
marmad, please keep posting on your future adventures with your DSO.  There are many local champions on eevblog for various devices I think further findings on your new toy will help us all.

Here's a sample of the sinx off and the Rigol's presentation of sine waves with increasingly slower sampling rates and how it affects waveform integrity as it approaches Nyquist limits.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2323.msg32022#msg32022
Best Wishes,

 Saturation

Offline rf-loop

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1608
  • Country: fi
  • Starting with DLL21
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2011, 07:49:01 PM »
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-100M-OWON-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-SDS7102-1G-s-/280720232929?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item415c3ad1e1
£315 uk inc p&p.
Nice review looking forward to teardown (hack?)  ;D

Maybe you can buy directly from factory 1pcs "sample". It  is more cheap! And it is 99.3% more reliable and reputable.

And they deliver by DHL. There you get also Factory warranty.
If you buy from whoever seller... ok you stay just with your own. Factory warranty do not move to third party, it is only for original buyer.  (Xiamen Lilliput..): "This warranty only applies to the original purchaser and is not transferable to the third party."

Who you trust more. Owon or noname seller in ebay.
Also if use payPal you loose some becouse PayPal use very poor currency exchange rate. And also you loose becouse PP fee is in price. Of course you can buy also from Owon's small or bigger reseller and you get maybe real customer care and also aftersale customer care. Also these noname sellers do not make any kind of test. You may get fail unit or it may fail after third power up.  Yes you can try refund etc..  My recommendation is to buy real  reputable seller. (as me or some one other but I have not any Owon - and my prices are higher - lot of. Becouse some customers want real customner care before and aftersale and all know: there is no free dinners - exept in China .. haha..)

ADD: Always need remember that QC is not well arranged in most of chinese factories. So there is "high" risk to buy these directly and specially from ebay or other unknown seller who even do not know anything about machines they sell. 99% they do not do any kind of test. They are  just as dropshippers wihout any responsibility. Only what you can do is give negative feedback and in very bad case you can open ebay problem solving system and loose time and get your mind frustrating and loose your money or lot of time or both.

In my area I sell "something" and all what I sell go first full tests including enough burn in time and stress.
Price is more than cheapest.  If still after all customer get bad unit or later warranty issue, he/she call me. In DOA case he have in most cases working unit inside 72 hours or faster in distance is close and can personally pic-up. All can understand that this kind of care can not do as "free dinner".   I have counted DOA's %.  Maybe bad luc and also single case but around 20%. (I know it was littlebit bad luck becouse I know something what is bacround for some problem..) Maybe 5-10% is better estimate. But who know what happend whole 3 year warranty time. We know it after years.

Simple  one solution is.

Buy 10 and sell 6. Keep 4 units for fail change. Include this to selling price.  I do not want any unsatisfied customer. One unsatisfied customer may pay 100 customer to me and I can not never get bac customer who is fully disappointed.

Keep 1 satisfied customer (so he some day buy more something) cost 1 money. Get new customer cost 20 money. Get fully disappointed customer back cost 400 money or is impossible.  If one angry but other peoples trusted customer is extremely disappointed he may cost your whole business.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 09:34:24 PM by rf-loop »
Sales only in Finland: Siglent and some selected Owon models what we have adopted. All with our lab deep Q.C. + surplus.
>50 year hobby&profession with test gears, radio, industrial electronic and electric. In use: Siglent, Rigol, Owon, HP/Agilent, Tektronix, Rohde&Schwarz, etc
(aka: aghp, aghp55)

Offline tinhead

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1786
  • Country: 00
    • If you like my hacks, send me a donation
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2011, 08:25:40 PM »
Nice review looking forward .... hack?

yes, i will take closer look on firmware soon, so if there is a way to hack something i will publish it here in forum.
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.

Offline tinhead

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1786
  • Country: 00
    • If you like my hacks, send me a donation
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #71 on: August 13, 2011, 08:36:07 PM »
Factory warranty do not move to third party, it is only for original buyer.  (Xiamen Lilliput..): "This warranty only applies to the original purchaser and is not transferable to the third party."

if so then i would not buy from a seller not located locally, there is always a very high risk with
chinese products to get even from a factory DOA units. Personally i had already such devices - in principle
from any manufacturer, especialy when BGAs inside (soldering issues). Having good ework and Reflow equipment
not a big deal for me, but without i would be screwed up.

Btw, where you have this warranty information?
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.

Offline rf-loop

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1608
  • Country: fi
  • Starting with DLL21
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #72 on: August 13, 2011, 09:06:05 PM »

Btw, where you have this warranty information?

It is stated in User manual (June 2011 edition). Just after front side and contact information: "General Warranty" what whole text is good to read carefully. (I do not know how it is interpreted in practice. - I have not yet company explanation for this)

Example, warranty is only for labor and parts. Customer is fully responsible for all shipping costs to repair service. But also warranty time is clear, 3 years.  (not as Hantek who have some confused information between 2 years and 3 years.)

Btw, Hantek (if use repair service in china). DOA unit. Hantek pay all shipping (I do not know how they refund customer to hantek shipment what is first step). Not specified what is exacly accepted as "DOA" unit. Other warranty fails: Customer  pay shipping to servce (in China). Hantek ship free to back.  Also Hantek sell "out of warranty repairs service" where customer pay whole two way shipping and work and parts. (cheap, exept shipping).  I do Hantek warranty repairs  -  but only for units what I have sell. (so I do not exactly know how it works if customer need direct factory repair servic)
Sales only in Finland: Siglent and some selected Owon models what we have adopted. All with our lab deep Q.C. + surplus.
>50 year hobby&profession with test gears, radio, industrial electronic and electric. In use: Siglent, Rigol, Owon, HP/Agilent, Tektronix, Rohde&Schwarz, etc
(aka: aghp, aghp55)

Offline marmad

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2932
  • Country: aq
    • DaysAlive
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #73 on: August 13, 2011, 09:34:24 PM »
Example, warranty is only for labor and parts. Customer is fully responsible for all shipping costs to repair service. But also warranty time is clear, 3 years.  (not as Hantek who have some confused information between 2 years and 3 years.)

If so, then Eleshop (where I bought my SDS7102 - and which covers the first year of the Owon warranty themselves), has to either do their own repairs or eat the shipping costs back to Owon.

Offline rf-loop

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1608
  • Country: fi
  • Starting with DLL21
Re: Review of Owon SDS7102
« Reply #74 on: August 13, 2011, 09:38:32 PM »
It is very easy in some cases. (I do not know eleshop and do not know anything what is they selling and pricinc policy and how they really do after sales customer care.)

But, I know some companies. How they do with example chinese machines.

Add 10% or littlebit more to price. If one of 10 unit fails. Put it to waste station or evacuate spare parts. And give new one to customer if can not easy repair immediately. Only simple rule, do not put customer to troubles. Do it "behind" and keep customer satisfied if he/she is normal honest people. Always there are real "trouble" peoples but so what..  if he is wrong - pay it and make him satisfied and he shut off his big mouth  and both win. It is just win win. (in most cases). Keep it all included price. If real fail persent is only 2 or 5% no one can not see it in price. But how big value give customer who every place tell after issue how fine service he get from this xx. 

But now it go wrong becouse many peoples look _only_ price. Oh I can buy 5 money less in ebay... you are robber
 with high prices.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 09:52:39 PM by rf-loop »
Sales only in Finland: Siglent and some selected Owon models what we have adopted. All with our lab deep Q.C. + surplus.
>50 year hobby&profession with test gears, radio, industrial electronic and electric. In use: Siglent, Rigol, Owon, HP/Agilent, Tektronix, Rohde&Schwarz, etc
(aka: aghp, aghp55)


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf