Author Topic: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon  (Read 945692 times)

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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1925 on: September 17, 2013, 01:55:16 am »
It seems that the push knob contacts are routed. Maybe they plan to add fine vertical setting in future?
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Offline Carrington

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1926 on: September 17, 2013, 02:00:12 am »
It's also interesting to see that Owon expanded the SDS-E line to whole range of scopes. High memory seems to be an optional feature now. The other differences appear to be a slight update on of the shell and removal of the battery. I also noticed that it can be self calibrated with no warm-up period. In fact, they mentioned that in the new SDS manual as well. This seems a bit strange to me.

The SDS7072 has adjustable output for the scope compensation port. Frequency can go from 1 kHz to 100 kHz and duty cycle from 5% to 95%. I wonder why that would be a useful feature. I know that high frequency probes need higher frequency for compensation in addition to low frequency, but that high frequency is usually around 1 MHz. Also I'm not sure how variable duty cycle would help. Any ideas?

All in all,  it seems they added four new models of scopes based on SDS7102. This seems a bit too much to me.

?

rf-loop should know something about it.
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline AndrejaKo

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1927 on: September 17, 2013, 02:02:18 am »
Yeah, it would be nice to hear about that new line. If I remember correctly, the SDS-E was targeted at educational market and that was the reason for the low bandwidth of the SDS5032E.
 

Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1928 on: September 17, 2013, 02:23:32 am »
Pulls the buttons strongly, you can use a rubber band and a pliers. Roll the rubber band arround the button and strip with the pliers, but be careful.

Notes: Do not paint this part (red) cover it with adhesive paper tape, like a cigar. Use also the adhesive paper tape to cover the outer edges of the plastic housing, i.e. all around. You can glue too a foil of paper around the housing using the adhesive tape. By this way you do not paint where you should not. Please use a protective mask too.

Edit: Remember you need a full pot of EMV35, nothing remains. Also you need fill all the button holes with plasticine without dirtying the rest around. To clean the plasticine rest you can use use alcohol and cotton tipped swabs. Do not forget cover the hole for the screen with adhesive paper tape.

I forgot, does not spray the paint from afar, and sprayed with the pot in vertical. Better read the instructions.

Good Luck.  :)

Carrington, thanks for info.
I am write-typing quickly...already I have painting the back cover.
I''ll upload my results when I finished...
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 06:46:33 am by lemon »
 

Offline Carrington

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1929 on: September 17, 2013, 02:35:29 am »
Carrington, thanks for info.
I am write-typing quickly...already I have painting the back cover.
I upload my results when I finished...

You are welcome.
Ok, quiet, leisurely. It dries pretty fast, but is better let it ~12h to cure.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 02:37:49 am by Carrington »
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline Carrington

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1930 on: September 17, 2013, 02:46:36 am »
Firmware Upgrade for the SDS scopes ?  :-//

Yes.  :'(

While checking the Owon site for firmware updates I happened to notice that the RAR file for the 3.2 & 3.3 patch was slightly longer than the one I had downloaded some time ago. In addition, the date of the upgrade had changed to a later date. Knowing that Owon is a little unorthodox in the way they name and issue new releases, I went ahead and downloaded the file (took more than 15 minutes) and installed the patch.
Over an hour to me.

While at the Owon site I also downloaded the latest SDS manual. This is also a newer manual (V1.6.3). A quick look revealed that they have added the SDS7072 to the manual. They have also added and rearranged to the information for the PC software and LAN interface.

It's a little disconcerting, they don't stop making changes.
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1931 on: September 17, 2013, 02:52:23 am »
TomC, how exactly the AC trigger does not work? I think that I used the waveform record function once on AC trigger and it seemed to work fine to me back when I did it. I don't remember if it was with the newest firmware.
After using record, and then turning it off, I ran the scope normally to view a 10MHz 180mVpp waveform. The trigger was set to AC, and I couldn't get a stable trigger,  going up and down on the trigger level didn't help. I then changed the trigger to DC and it worked normally. When I changed it back to AC it also worked correctly. I tried this several times with the same results. Seems like some kind of firmware bug. Not very alarming however since you can get it back to work fairly easily.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 03:47:16 am by TomC »
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1932 on: September 17, 2013, 03:17:31 am »
Also since I'm bashing their autocalibration instructions, I'll mention this gem from the manual: "If the change of the ambient temperature is up to or exceeds 5?, the self-calibration procedure should be executed to obtain the highest level of accuracy." What's the point of mentioning the temperature of the change is up to or exceeding that value? Perhaps they meant equal or greater than 5?.
Reading Chinglish requires some imagination! :)

However, I'll have to give them credit for producing a more readable manual than what you typically see from other Chinese manufacturers. For example, my Tenma 72-7730 multimeter (UT71B). I was so disappointed with the manual that I re-wrote it to suit me.
 

Offline AndrejaKo

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1933 on: September 17, 2013, 03:36:53 am »
What surprises me the most is about the whole manual side is the usefulness of the included help. It almost covers whole manual and is pretty simple to use. My only complaint about it is the fact that if the voltages have jumped out of the bottom bar, manual doesn't hide them.
 

Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1934 on: September 17, 2013, 04:37:16 am »
From what I saw the there are two products for Contact Chemie 35 EMV.

The first one is that the Carrington uses. This is the new product of 35 EMV, it contains highly conductive copper pigments in acrylic resin. Shielding attenuation: 60-65dB.


The other one is that I found, an older product of 35 EMV that it is a shielding spray with Nickel base.


The price both of them is differente with the most expensive that with the cooper pigments in acrylic resin.

The painting is finished and the final optical result is perfect! I have removed all the adhesive paper and plasticine and let it to dry completely for 24 hours.

Tomorrow I'll upload photos with some measurements.
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1935 on: September 17, 2013, 02:54:35 pm »
I've been playing with the Oscilloscope software's Auto Player feature and after tripping over myself a few times decided to write down the steps to get it to work. So I thought I'll share this cheat sheet with those of you that may want to further investigate the usefulness of this feature.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To use the Auto Player feature first go to Port Settings.

1. Click the check mark box for "Save data file automatically to below directory".

2. Browse to an empty folder and press OK, or browse to a folder of your choice and click "Make New Folder", enter the folder's name, and press OK. The correct folder path and name should appear in the directory field.

3. Use Windows Explorer to navigate to this folder so you can watch its content. There is a bug in the software that can start filling this folder very rapidly with new numbered folders (1,2,3,4.....800,801, etc.).

4. Set the "Keep Getting Delay(ms):" to the interval in ms that you want to have between captures. For example, 3000.

5. Capture some data by clicking "Keep Getting Now!", or click "OK" and then click the "Continue Data Download" icon on the toolbar. On the folder you are watching a file named "filename.ini" and a folder named "1" should appear.

However, you may see a bunch of numbered folders being created. If this happens, CLOSE the Oscilloscope application. This is the bug mentioned on step 3. Delete the folders and try again.

During each capture interval a new data file is created and stored in folder "1". A list of these file's names is kept in filename.ini to keep track of the sequence in which the data files are recorded. At the bottom of the Oscilloscope application window the path and name of the current destination data file and a progress bar are displayed. This information is automatically updated during each capture interval.

6. To stop capturing data click the "Stop Data Download" icon on the toolbar.

7. To setup the playback of the captured data click the "Auto Player" icon on the toolbar.

8. Set the desired "Play Mode" and the "Time Delay" between frames. Choose "Turn" to playback the captured files in the same sequence that they were recorded, choose "Reverse" to play them back from last to first. During playback each file represents a frame, the "Time Delay" is the dead time before the next file is read and displayed.

9. Click "Add..." and browse as required to add the folder created during step 2 to the "History:" list. Choose this folder from the history list.

10. Click the "Play" button to begin the playback. During playback you can click "Pause" and use the "Next" and "Previous" buttons to manually step from one frame to another. Automatic playback ends once the last frame is reached, there is no loop option and you must press "Play" again to repeat.


NOTES:

There is no built in mechanism to edit the history list. However, to delete folders from this list you can physically move them or delete them with Windows Explorer. When you close/open the Oscilloscope application, any folders in the history list that can't be found will be automatically purged from the list.

It's possible to create your own capture sequences for playback. The filenames don't seem to need any particular syntax, so you can name the BIN files of your choice at will. The filename.ini file must contain these filenames in the sequence you want to playback the BIN files. If the BIN files are on a different folder this needs to be reflected in filename.ini with a path.

For example, for a folder in the history list named "Data" which contains the files, TomC_1.bin, TomC_2.bin, TomC_3.bin, the filename.ini file within "Data" should look as follows:

TomC_1.bin
TomC_2.bin
TomC_3.bin

or as follows if you want for example to play TomC_3 before TomC_2:

TomC_1.bin
TomC_3.bin
TomC_2.bin

Now let's say that we want to put these 3 BIN files in a subfolder named "1". In this case the filename.ini file within "Data" should look as follows:

1\TomC_1.bin
1\TomC_2.bin
1\TomC_3.bin

If you rename existing BIN files or edit existing filename.ini files, some of the previous information may still be stored in temporary memory. As a result Auto Player may not work as expected and you may need to Close/Open the Oscilloscope application to set things straight.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are times when static images don't tell the whole story of what's happening when scoping a particular event. Perhaps this feature may be useful in those cases to capture a more dynamyc reprensentation of the event. It seems to me that the data folder created with this feature could be compressed into a ZIP file and posted in this forum when a dynamyc representation is more appropriate.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 02:58:49 pm by TomC »
 

Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1936 on: September 17, 2013, 10:50:05 pm »
TomC, thanks for the intro about this software function.
It is the same like record in save menu.
But there is same behaviour here, no export of this sequence.

Today I have finished with all works about emv35 shielding and fit the boards.
The painting is OK, but the result is worst than before but I''ll talk about this later.
I''ll show here some photos from procedure.

First, I covered all the holes with plasticine, and the whole area with adhesive paper tape or insulate tape. I used a whole spray for this (200ml).
As you can see at the two details the shielding of Nickel is very good.
 

Offline Carrington

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1937 on: September 18, 2013, 12:12:08 am »
Today I have finished with all works about emv35 shielding and fit the boards.
The painting is OK, but the result is worst than before but I''ll talk about this later.

I've disassembled again,  Oh men you should apply plasticine from inside. Anyway is not important.
But there is another problem, after a few days running I discovered cracks in the hotter areas (different dilation).  :--

Woow you got worst results! :-//
Well I made other changes, in addition to painting it:
  - Add a ferrite in the flat screen cable.
  - Modify the screen assembly.

There is a solution, a bath in hydrochloric acid.
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1938 on: September 18, 2013, 12:13:58 am »
TomC, thanks for the intro about this software function.
It is the same like record in save menu.
But there is same behaviour here, no export of this sequence.

Today I have finished with all works about emv35 shielding and fit the boards.
The painting is OK, but the result is worst than before but I''ll talk about this later.
I''ll show here some photos from procedure.

First, I covered all the holes with plasticine, and the whole area with adhesive paper tape or insulate tape. I used a whole spray for this (200ml).
As you can see at the two details the shielding of Nickel is very good.
Looks like a very good job! :-+

I don't understand why it would worsen the results. Is there positive continuity between the shielding and the Z plate?

As for the Auto Player feature, the one advantage I see is that even though you can't export the sequence back into the scope, you can make the captures available to others. Even somebody that don't have an SDS scope could download the Oscilloscope application and use it to play captures from somebody else.
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1939 on: September 18, 2013, 12:23:45 am »
But there is another problem, after a few days running I discovered cracks in the hotter areas (different dilation).  :--

That's not good! :(

Is there a difference in performance since these cracks appeared?

From what I see on the picture it doesn't seem bad enough to affect the shielding effect.
 

Offline Carrington

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1940 on: September 18, 2013, 12:34:19 am »
Oh men, you did not see this:  :palm:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-of-owon-sds7102/msg292492/#msg292492
I'm sorry, I it forgot in the first post.

You also paint the internal battery housing. Why?


Quote
"Is there a difference in performance since these cracks appeared?
From what I see on the picture it doesn't seem bad enough to affect the shielding effect."
It does not seem, would have to check it. This can cause a short circuit if a piece breaks off.
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1941 on: September 18, 2013, 01:55:54 am »
First one inspiration, after a long expiration, I must to relax because my nervous system is going to break!

1) when fit all boards, I observed that the shielding has a continuity with Z-plate. Carrington, the area back of the Probe Compensation has cleaned before, because it had painting. No any shorting there!
This is no normal, but with this situation I take some measurement.
Base line 2mV BW limited...more than I had before shielding
Base line 5mV full BW....more than I had before shielding
Gnd-noise non isolate....although there is a low base noise 20-26 mV unfortunately there are a lot of spikes to 45-60 mV

2) unfit all boards and isolate some areas as opposite of bnc and the upper of horizontal buttons. I cleaned all those signs that catch the screws from shielding. Now there is no any continuity between the shielding and Z-plate.
But the gnd-noise is the worst! (gnd_noise_isolate) 50-64mV.

I put some internal ferrites to the flat cables but nothing...
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 02:28:04 am by lemon »
 

Offline Carrington

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1942 on: September 18, 2013, 02:25:50 am »
Well I tested again without shielding. And I've discovered something new, look at the images, the only difference is that the button board does not contact with the main board at gnd screw, except for the last.

This thing is worse than a toothache, I don't understand why that happens with yours oscilloscope.  :palm:
I have no more ideas, I give up.

Edit: Sorry for the quality of the images, I tried with a flash, but the screen goes black.



Sorry, I have to leave it for today. See ya.  ;)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 02:36:27 am by Carrington »
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1943 on: September 18, 2013, 04:35:26 am »
I''ll try with your test and I come back, tomorrow.
Now, I am very tired to think something.
 

Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1944 on: September 18, 2013, 05:28:09 am »
I couldn't to wait...

All what you see is true. With the button SDS_Key board close to z-plate the gnd-noise is minimum (I measured 30-36mV, see attachment).
With the button SDS_Key board away from z-plate (2 cm) the noise is increasing to 40-56mV, see attachment).
Conclusion, the choice how you enclosure this scope is nervous breaking and the results of shielding will be a magic show!

I'll try to find what is happening here!
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 05:30:51 am by lemon »
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1945 on: September 18, 2013, 06:02:25 am »
I couldn't to wait...

All what you see is true. With the button SDS_Key board close to z-plate the gnd-noise is minimum (I measured 30-36mV, see attachment).
With the button SDS_Key board away from z-plate (2 cm) the noise is increasing to 40-56mV, see attachment).
Conclusion, the choice how you enclosure this scope is nervous breaking and the results of shielding will be a magic show!

I'll try to find what is happening here!
Lemon & Carrington,

There may be more to this than just random effects. The following is an excerpt from an article at:
http://www.4emi.com/shield.php
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are two principle mechanisms present in all shields, and these are reflection and absorption.

When an electromagnetic wave traveling through space encounters a shield two things happen.
First, much of the energy is reflected and then second some of the energy that is not reflected is then absorbed by the shield; only the residual energy emerges from the other side of the shield. These two effects of reflection and absorption are independent from each other, but when they combine together, they produce the overall shields true effectiveness.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The one thing that strikes me as the probable culprit is the reflections. There are many components in the scope that radiate EMI, but without shielding a lot of it dissipates in the sorrounding area and doesn't affect nearby circuits. With the shielding this EMI is reflected onto other nearby circuits causing noise problems that weren't there before.

The shielding is doing its job properly, is preventing the EMI from escaping the confines of the scope's cabinet. But the side effect is that this energy is now internally reflected unto other circuits.

If it was possible to confine the EMI of the major emitters to a smaller area, with a smaller shield, perhaps the effect of the cabinet's overall shielding would produce better results.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 06:04:30 am by TomC »
 

Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1946 on: September 18, 2013, 04:11:14 pm »
This theory explains exactly what it is happening here.
The case of Owon is very thin and all boards are close together. This isn't good for avoided of EMI.

Yesterday, I done a lot of combinations. One thing is sure, when all boards is out of the case and are close together the gnd-noise is decreasing, I measured until 25mVp-p (10X).
Now, with the shielding of Nickel the emi reflects everywhere and I can't to fall it under 45-50mV with the case closed. I am not going to do any to remove the shielding now, before I take the new boards that I wait, perhaps they have different behavior with the shielding.

Carrington, the problem with the cracking of shielding is not very big. Perhaps the temperature there is high and cracking the layter, perhaps you had apply very fat layer of shielding.
I was looking your internal photo, I am very sure that you have continuity btw z-plate and shielding now.
Look at the marks that I have put to your photo.
The three yellow cycles at the bases of bnc and the four corners of tft display cause a continuity between the shielding and z-plate.
Please, can you feedback about this?
I covered all metalic frame of tft display with a cotton adhesive tape and a thin O-ring to base of each bnc. With that I don't have continuity with z-plate, but I haven't better result, just different!
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 10:53:36 pm by lemon »
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1947 on: September 19, 2013, 02:49:39 am »
I finally got done upgrading my Variac, there is a picture and schematic posted here.

The next step is to put together a way of independently powering up my old PSU and setting up some dummy loads. Hopefully I will get this done quicker than the Variac. However, I want to do this in a way that accessing the components for scoping is convenient but at the same time simulates as closely as possible the environment when it's installed inside the scope.

From 0-140VAC the Variac's output is now isolated from the mains, so hopefully scoping signals referenced to GND-A will no longer be a problem. I now also have the ability to output 0-280VAC, so I can perform tests at mains voltages used in other countries. Unfortunately, I didn't have an extra power isolation transformer to implement this capability with mains isolation. So at voltages greater than 140VAC scoping signals referenced to GND-A will still be a problem.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 03:03:31 am by TomC »
 

Offline AndrejaKo

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1948 on: September 19, 2013, 04:15:13 am »
Another update from me: I managed to track down those noise bursts that happened after switching.

I changed the LM324 with LM224, but it wasn't the LM, since noise was there even with LM removed. At least the extended temperature range should come in handy, since the PSU board gets pretty hot when running from the mains.

Then I went on to change all the components near the MC34063A. I the ON Semi MC with another ON Semi MC, replaced the coil with a 100 ┬ÁH toroidal coil. It changed the frequency of operation for the MC, but the noise bursts remained. One thing that surprised me was the increase of range at which I can pick up the noise from the coil with scope probe. If I remember my magnetics course correctly, most of the magnetic field should remain within the coil. I can't remember how electric field would behave. For some reason I expected its emissions to be harder to pick up.

Then I replaced the SR160 diode with a MBRS1100T3 SMD diode from ON Semi. If I read the datasheet correctly, it looks a bit better than the SR160. It has lower capacitance and higher current ratings, but the forward voltage looks a bit higher than on SR160. In any case, that didn't help.

After that, I removed the current sense resistor and those noise bursts I had after switching are now gone.  I'm thinking of putting a picofarad range capacitor in parallel with the resistor, since I'd like to have it there in case of overcurrent situation.

Interesting thing is that duty cycle remains erratic even with the current resistor removed. Switching noise still remains.
 

Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1949 on: September 19, 2013, 04:18:11 am »
Well done, TomC. I'll wait for your result.

I would like to test the scope without the Owon PSU, but I am thinking how manipulate the trigger output of the flat ribbon.
How is the right way to be done?
Sure, I need two independent voltages by -7.6V and 8.4V -  this is easy I have the appropriate psu - but the ac trigger output?

When dismantle (unfit) my scope to applying shielding, I found the time to take some photos to the others boards.

Here are with the full resolution, only an amount of compression for smaller files.
The photos are from the two buttons boards, the one is L schema of buttons (H1..H5 horizontal and F1..menu off vertical) the other is main menu buttons. Also there are photos from the mainboard, both of sides.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 04:32:55 am by lemon »
 
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