Rigol and production

[Fungus]

Does a "production environment" need to turn the knobs or just connect a probe?

I'd hope it's just connecting a probe. If you need to turn knobs you should probably have two 'scopes side by side to save on time and operator errors (or automate the setting changes via USB/Ethernet, which cheap Rigols can do...)

If it's just connecting a probe and using automated settings changes then why would Rigol be any worse than a more expensive brand? What counts is how long it takes to swap a failed unit. You need to plan for that no matter what brand you use.

[slurry]

Does a "production environment" need to turn the knobs or just connect a probe?

I'd hope it's just connecting a probe. If you need to turn knobs you should probably have two 'scopes side by side to save on time and operator errors (or automate the setting changes via USB/Ethernet, which cheap Rigols can do...)

If it's just connecting a probe and using automated settings changes then why would Rigol be any worse than a more expensive brand? What counts is how long it takes to swap a failed unit. You need to plan for that no matter what brand you use.

It varies...very much.

Let say they are testing circuit boards, hopefully not using the ordinary delicate scopeprobes,
instead placing the PCB in a jig with contact points connected to the scope.
The scope sits inside a cooled cabinet and the pass/fail output is used, either there is a big red and green sign in front of the operator that lits up.

As long as there is no SCPI-commands, advanced mesurements or extensive knobturning involved i dont see why a Rigol wouldn't suffice in a small-scale production environment,
but it still would not be my personal first choice as i'm quite fond of serviceagreements that keeps the production running.

[pickle9000]

Does a "production environment" need to turn the knobs or just connect a probe?

I'd hope it's just connecting a probe. If you need to turn knobs you should probably have two 'scopes side by side to save on time and operator errors (or automate the setting changes via USB/Ethernet, which cheap Rigols can do...)

If it's just connecting a probe and using automated settings changes then why would Rigol be any worse than a more expensive brand? What counts is how long it takes to swap a failed unit. You need to plan for that no matter what brand you use.

Depends on the product. If you are using the internal masked pass fail test Rigols are very slow cheapo Siglents seem to be very (very) fast in that regard (masked pass fail tests). What does that mean? Buy a rebranded Siglent from a well known company try it out. Again it really means nothing, you need to pay attention to the gear itself and not the brand name. No I'm not saying Siglent is better (or worse) than Rigol you just need to spec out your stuff properly.

Even if many professionals stick to the big brand names the reality is that price counts. The big brands will always be ahead but everything is being walmarted including production lines. Yes there are lines that will have only the best but that is not going to happen everywhere.     

[Hydrawerk]

Do you need active probes capability on the scope?

[mackrc1]

I think now is a good time to remind people what OP was asking, lets not turn this into a war against brands and hobbyists 

[smgvbest]

He wrote quantity and you read quality, and there's a slight difference there 

I did not read quality instead of quantity

The hobbyist is not doing production of anything with a worth while amount of quantity

Why is it assumed if your a hobbyist your "not doing production of anything"  I'm not focusing on the rest of the sentence around quantity.   this to me implies as a hobbyist I don't design with production in mind.   if you're not designing in with production is mind the implied meaning to me is your not designing a quality product.   I'm designing a focus controller for my telescope.  it has to survive the heat and cold.  it has to survive outside.  it has to be durable.  it has to be stable or it will ruin my images.  it has to work and work every time I use it.  I take the production to mean quality.  now granted there's allot of crap out there that is production but hobbyist can produce quality stuff even if it's not intended for a production line. 

There seems to be some who attack Rigol.  make claims but do not back up those claims with facts and not just read the forums.  I have and am happy with what I've read.
how many Tek or Agilent scope have gone through the public testing that Rigol has.   

[XFDDesign]

I did not read quality instead of quantity

This is your problem, not mine.

Why is it assumed if your a hobbyist your "not doing production of anything"

If you have hit the stage where you have commercialized a project, gone through the motions for ramping up sales interests and have generated orders in quantity, then you're no longer a hobbyist. You have moved out of the Hobbyist realm and into the professional one.

I'm not focusing on the rest of the sentence around quantity.

Then the rest of what you wrote is of no consequence. If you have to modify the sentence to fit your desired narrative, you're not only being intellectually dishonest, but you are admitting you don't actually have an argument against what was written.

I'm designing a focus controller for my telescope.  it has to survive the heat and cold.  it has to survive outside.  it has to be durable.  it has to be stable or it will ruin my images.  it has to work and work every time I use it.

Bespoke things are not necessarily junk things. But there is a star system's worth of gap between bespoke one-offs, and turning a thousand units in a sitting. Until you reach the point where you have done this, your opinion and feelings are irrelevant. This is not a thread in which everyone gets together and champions the greatness of their one-off items. It is a discussion that is very specifically about the use of Rigol Instrumentation in a production environment. Unless you are asking questions to learn yourself, or you have production experience to contribute, your self-aggrandizing is entirely without merit.

[uoficowboy]

Looks like this thread is heavily derailed - but I figure I'll jump in with my own experience. I've put a number of products into full mass production (millions/year). All of this was in China, with tier 1 and 2 CMs. All the test equipment that the CMs chose (I never chose it for them) - was name brand stuff. I especially remember seeing a lot of HP/Agilent gear, but also some Flukes and Tektronix. I don't think I ever saw a Rigol.

I think some of the soldering stations were off brand, however. Also I remember at a battery factory I didn't recognize the names on any of their battery testing equipment - but that's pretty specialized.

Ohh, also I saw some of those standard off brand China power supplies (the ones that you can find a million different brands of) on the production lines. But never an off brand meter, scope, spectrum analyzer, vna, etc. All of those were always good name brands.

[Hydrawerk]

Ohh, also I saw some of those standard off brand China power supplies (the ones that you can find a million different brands of)

Like this one?

[Armxnian]

Rigol gear is made using high quality off the shelf components. Just because it's Chinese doesn't mean they make their own chips and capacitors in their garage. Many YouTube tear downs have said their build quality matches anything the big brands put out, at a much lower cost.

People haven't seen Rigol in production environments because the quality gear is new. You don't replace gear in a production environment very often.

The only problems mentioned here were bugs and scpi. The models that have been out for a couple of years have nearly all the bugs fixed. And it's not like the big brands put out gear that is bug free. All the Rigols also have extensive scpi capability. The programing guide is available on their site for each product. If the Rigol equipment has the specs you need, it should do fine in a production environment. The manuals for some of the products like the DP832 show units in racks. They are obviously tested to some extent.

Brand fanboyism and ignorance to other products is the most annoying thing ever. Reminds me of the children at computer forums fighting over Intel, Nvidia, and AMD.

[ivan747]

Then there's training.  If this is production line personnel, you're going to be doing a lot of it.  Employees are only hired on short term contracts.  They are all poorly paid, so it's common to have a lot of employees just not come back to work after a major holiday, such as Christmas.  (I don't blame them.)  So, whatever you pick had better be in Spanish, good Spanish. 

We have Tek TDS220s at uni, they have good spanish translations. Some terms get lost in translation but that always happens when translating technical English, trust me.

[ivan747]

Oh, and do tell the guard with the shotgun muzzle on his toe outside Whataburger hello for me. If he doesn't have his big toe anymore, give him my condolences.

  that's extremely accurate

[DavidDLC]

Do you need active probes capability on the scope?

No, we are going to connect a high impedance high voltage probe to it, and measure the voltage (~280 volts), no need for accurate measurements, just ensure we are in a voltage range for the test.

David.

[DavidDLC]

Then there's training.  If this is production line personnel, you're going to be doing a lot of it.  Employees are only hired on short term contracts.  They are all poorly paid, so it's common to have a lot of employees just not come back to work after a major holiday, such as Christmas.  (I don't blame them.)  So, whatever you pick had better be in Spanish, good Spanish. 

We have Tek TDS220s at uni, they have good spanish translations. Some terms get lost in translation but that always happens when translating technical English, trust me.

It is going to be an automated test, they will perform maintenance programs only to the units.

David.

[rx8pilot]

Do you need active probes capability on the scope?

No, we are going to connect a high impedance high voltage probe to it, and measure the voltage (~280 volts), no need for accurate measurements, just ensure we are in a voltage range for the test.

David.

Why not use a DMM like the 34401A? If you are not needing specific measurements like rise time or jitter you may save some challenge by using a more appropriate tool.

[DavidDLC]

Do you need active probes capability on the scope?

No, we are going to connect a high impedance high voltage probe to it, and measure the voltage (~280 volts), no need for accurate measurements, just ensure we are in a voltage range for the test.

David.

Why not use a DMM like the 34401A? If you are not needing specific measurements like rise time or jitter you may save some challenge by using a more appropriate tool.

I proposed the same as you, but we need a high impedance probe, and the guys on the office already are using a probe that it only connects to oscilloscope.

They have tried differential probes but they load the system, so we need to stick to it.

David

[XFDDesign]

You're unlikely to find a scope probe that is higher impedance than a 34410A DVM at 10MOhm.

I agree with RX8Pilot, if you're measuring 280VAC line voltage, then the DVM would be a perfect use case. The same might even go for a Rigol Bench DMM if that floats your fancy and it meets spec, but between the Keygilent and Rigol for a production line, I would go with Agisight due to it having a long and healthy SCPI support system with all the standard buses installed out of the box. I fail to see how an Oscope would do the job.

Edit: Looking at the only Rigol 6.5 digit dmm, it too has all the standard buses, so it just comes down to the software backend, which is where I would be concerned.

[DavidDLC]

You're unlikely to find a scope probe that is higher impedance than a 34410A DVM at 10MOhm or >10GOhm.

As I mentioned we already have one that works for our purposes.

David.

[XFDDesign]

Ok so which is it?

I proposed the same as you, but we need a high impedance probe, and the guys on the office already are using a probe that it only connects to oscilloscope.

Do you need high impedance, or do you simply want to use equipment that you already have?

There is still only trace amounts of information about the exact problem you're trying to solve here.

280VAC measurement with as high impedance as possible, DMM. No need for a scope.

Do you insist on the use of a scope? Then why and what for?

[DavidDLC]

Ok so which is it?

I proposed the same as you, but we need a high impedance probe, and the guys on the office already are using a probe that it only connects to oscilloscope.

Do you need high impedance, or do you simply want to use equipment that you already have?

There is still only trace amounts of information about the exact problem you're trying to solve here.

280VAC measurement with as high impedance as possible, DMM. No need for a scope.

Do you insist on the use of a scope? Then why and what for?

I hope you understand my next statement.

I don't know how much information I can give about this, it is not my thing is company policy, I don't want to get in trouble.

David.

[rx8pilot]

I give up.

Parting words,

If I had money on a production line (even a small one), I would not bother with a company that has a primary goal of being the cheapest option. I am not saying Rigol is useless or that the big boys have no faults. When building a high reliability system, it is rare that spending as little as possible up front will end up saving money. I have learned over many years how to analyze value over time. With that experience, I almost always end up buying the best brands and the higher-end models and usually spend less over time than the cheap up front alternatives.

[DavidDLC]

I give up.

Parting words,

If I had money on a production line (even a small one), I would not bother with a company that has a primary goal of being the cheapest option. I am not saying Rigol is useless or that the big boys have no faults. When building a high reliability system, it is rare that spending as little as possible up front will end up saving money. I have learned over many years how to analyze value over time. With that experience, I almost always end up buying the best brands and the higher-end models and usually spend less over time than the cheap up front alternatives.

If you go back on the discussion you can see that I mentioned that I'm making the equipment proposal and I was thinking for Rigol as an option, if they are good enough to be used for production or not.

I'm not saying I will use Rigol, I'm looking for it as an option where they can fit. I will not replace a cheap instrument when we need quality measurements.

On the current equipment proposal we have equipment like Keysight E4980AL, Keithley 2015P, NI DAQs, LabView software and some other quality brands and some expensive ones.

For some applications these instruments are overkill and a cheapest solution can be consider.

I appreciate you are trying to help me with the equipment selection, I went with the engineers and asked them for alternatives to the high impedance high voltage probe and scope combination, they mentioned to me they have tried different settings and this one is the best for the immediate needs.

David.