Author Topic: Rigol announces Phoenix chipset and UltraVision II technology platform  (Read 17341 times)

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Offline madires

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Let's wait for the first reviews. If Rigol delivers a proper DSO it could start a real competition and help bringing prices down to a reasonable level.
 

Offline Bud

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i hope that thing doesnt have:

1) crawling slow GUI.
2) crawling small FFT
3) buggy data output from visa programmable command USB line.
4) "pluses"

those are very well known rigol reputation.

5. Disfunctional PLL
6. Oscillating power supplies

Following my principle "No more rigol shit on my bench" I am not going to buy one but can validate assertions #5 and 6 if anyone willing to send me one for test.
 

Online nctnico

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Let's wait for the first reviews. If Rigol delivers a proper DSO it could start a real competition and help bringing prices down to a reasonable level.
I've been reading that for the past 4 years and it hasn't happened yet for >200MHz oscilloscopes. So hopes down...
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline mtdoc

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They have done away with the button down the left side, and it's clearly a touch screen with the bottom menu screen items and no buttons underneath.

Yes, exactly as I was saying would happen in the new Tek scope thread!  :box:

But I never thought I'd be proved correct so soon!

The next question is how far down their line of scopes will they take this and when?  :popcorn:

It's great to see them keeping the big boys on their toes!
 

Online ebastler

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The next question is how far down their line of scopes will they take this and when?  :popcorn:

How about 2 to 4 years for the new platform to percolate down through the DS4000, DS2000 and DS1000 range?
 

Offline mtdoc

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The next question is how far down their line of scopes will they take this and when?  :popcorn:

How about 2 to 4 years for the new platform to percolate down through the DS4000, DS2000 and DS1000 range?

Yeah, that sounds about right. It probably depends on how fast the sales of those scopes starts to lag. The new low end Siglent and Keysight scopes will surely be impacting their sales.
 

Offline EEVblog

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They have done away with the button down the left side, and it's clearly a touch screen with the bottom menu screen items and no buttons underneath.

Yes, exactly as I was saying would happen in the new Tek scope thread!  :box:
But I never thought I'd be proved correct so soon!
The next question is how far down their line of scopes will they take this and when?  :popcorn:
It's great to see them keeping the big boys on their toes!

Actually, it may not be touch screen, I was dumb.
Those likely aren't touch buttons on the bottom, just regular channel info display windows.
Still has the left side button.
No Rigol scope has menu buttons on the bottom, always left/right.
But we'll see. They have obviously rejigged the interface somehow.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Yeah, that sounds about right. It probably depends on how fast the sales of those scopes starts to lag. The new low end Siglent and Keysight scopes will surely be impacting their sales.

Doubtful. The 1054Z is still the only 4CH game in town.
 

Offline mtdoc

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They have done away with the button down the left side, and it's clearly a touch screen with the bottom menu screen items and no buttons underneath.

Yes, exactly as I was saying would happen in the new Tek scope thread!  :box:
But I never thought I'd be proved correct so soon!
The next question is how far down their line of scopes will they take this and when?  :popcorn:
It's great to see them keeping the big boys on their toes!

Actually, it may not be touch screen, I was dumb.
Those likely aren't touch buttons on the bottom, just regular channel info display windows.
Still has the left side button.
No Rigol scope has menu buttons on the bottom, always left/right.
But we'll see. They have obviously rejigged the interface somehow.

But the second picture sure looks like a touch screen to me. Even though there are buttons there, notice how large the menu items are, and there isn't a button for every menu item. And the bottom one has left and right arrows which would require touch, I think.




Also, on the scope pic, there does not appear to be a vertical knob for every channel, though the blurred picture makes it hard to know for sure. A higher end scope without dedicated vertical knobs would surely need a touch screen, wouldn't it?  Well, i guess we'll have to wait and see...

 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 01:25:33 am by mtdoc »
 

Online nctnico

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Yeah, that sounds about right. It probably depends on how fast the sales of those scopes starts to lag. The new low end Siglent and Keysight scopes will surely be impacting their sales.
Doubtful. The 1054Z is still the only 4CH game in town.
Not really.  Micsig and GW Instek are also offering 4 channel scopes in the same price range which have some advantages over the Rigol 1054Z.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online Hydron

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But the second picture sure looks like a touch screen to me. Even though there are buttons there, notice how large the menu items are, and there isn't a button for every menu item. And the bottom one has left and right arrows which would require touch, I think.
I think the number of buttons and menu items actually matches up - the top just says "Menu" (isn't an item) and the bottom item shows which menu page it's on, with the bottom button assumed to change menu pages.

I'm not sure that it makes sense to have soft buttons on a touchscreen scope at all - the space they take could be better spent on more screen.
 

Online technogeeky

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Also, on the scope pic, there does not appear to be a vertical knob for every channel, though the blurred picture makes it hard to know for sure. A higher end scope without dedicated vertical knobs would surely need a touch screen, wouldn't it?  Well, i guess we'll have to wait and see...


Despite the image, I think we can be pretty sure that there isn't 1 vertical knob per channel. There are only 7 knobs in that picture, and it's a 4 channel scope... Normally you'd expect 2 vertical knobs per channel, which is impossible.

If they only have 1 knob per channel (e.g. they threw away the offset knob) that would still be impossible as there are only 3 "unknown" knobs left.
 

Offline mtdoc

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But the second picture sure looks like a touch screen to me. Even though there are buttons there, notice how large the menu items are, and there isn't a button for every menu item. And the bottom one has left and right arrows which would require touch, I think.
I think the number of buttons and menu items actually matches up - the top just says "Menu" (isn't an item) and the bottom item shows which menu page it's on, with the bottom button assumed to change menu pages.
Yes, I see what you mean  It still seems to me that the screen tabs are curiously large if they are not meant to be touched. And the left/right buttons on the bottom item look like touch items.

Quote
I'm not sure that it makes sense to have soft buttons on a touchscreen scope at all - the space they take could be better spent on more screen.
  Yes and no.  Next to and duplicating touch screen functions would not make sense but I have seen it done. The Micsig handheld scopes do this. On the other hand, I do think that some soft buttons makes sense - as seen on the R&S scopes and the new Tek scope.

Those new Rigol pics almost look like mock-ups.  It may be that the interface is still a work in progress. We'll have to wait and see. 

Scope watching - the nerd spectator sport!  ;D
 

Online tautech

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i hope that thing doesnt have:
...

:horse:
Excellent and valuable input. T

Got to hand it to him, he never misses a chance to bash Rigol.  :palm:
:-DD
And I though Mech was being kind stopping at #4.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist & NZ Siglent Distributor
 

Offline jjoonathan

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i hope that thing doesnt have:
...

:horse:
Excellent and valuable input. T

Got to hand it to him, he never misses a chance to bash Rigol.  :palm:
:-DD
And I though Mech was being kind stopping at #4.

Yeah, Rigol DS4000 owner here. Here are some more:

* Serial decodes did not work in segmented memory for years
* Bad nonlinearities in front end (disappointing spurious performance in FFT)
* Janky half-digital half-analog trigger causes waveforms to hop left and right by ~3ns while panning
* Not even Pluses. There is no pulse counter at all
* No heatsinks on ADCs, so they go bad in ~4 years
* Takes minutes to save an image to USB drive
 

Online Fungus

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This thread is degenerating nicely now, just like all the others. Haters gonna hate.

Yeah, Rigol DS4000 owner here. Here are some more:

And... all the other brands are perfect?

(and if they are, why did you buy Rigol?  :popcorn: )
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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And... all the other brands are perfect?
(and if they are, why did you buy Rigol?  :popcorn: )
Rigol knows how to incorporate good things in their product, that we loved much. but bad things need highlighting so they dont make the stupid mistakes again, esp on the high end of their product line... and with hope, some Rigol staff have an eye on this thread and take proper action on their existing product. but maybe this is just a false hope, the other "rigol bug" thread doesnt seem to produce anything fruitfull in term of their effort. but well, no need to further derail this thread  :-\
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline jjoonathan

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And... all the other brands are perfect?
Why would I say that? Everyone knows it's all about tradeoffs. I'm in a position to share information about Rigol's tradeoffs, so I did.
 
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Offline boggis the cat

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Doubtful. The 1054Z is still the only 4CH game in town.
Not really.  Micsig and GW Instek are also offering 4 channel scopes in the same price range which have some advantages over the Rigol 1054Z.
The GW Instek GDS 1054B is better performing for the basics, but has fewer extra features (decoding options seem to be fashionable) -- they're definitely competitive on spec, but don't seem to do marketing as well.  I don't know much about Micsig, but thought that they were a fair bit more expensive.

Siglent are likely to bring out a four channel variant of their latest low-end 'scope, but it would have to be lower bandwidth or require faster sampling if they want to keep 200 MHz.

This new Rigol looks like a refresh of their top range with touch-screen.  It will probably take a while for that to reach the budget end if the market.
 

Online nctnico

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Doubtful. The 1054Z is still the only 4CH game in town.
Not really.  Micsig and GW Instek are also offering 4 channel scopes in the same price range which have some advantages over the Rigol 1054Z.
The GW Instek GDS 1054B is better performing for the basics, but has fewer extra features (decoding options seem to be fashionable) -- they're definitely competitive on spec, but don't seem to do marketing as well.  I don't know much about Micsig, but thought that they were a fair bit more expensive.

Siglent are likely to bring out a four channel variant of their latest low-end 'scope, but it would have to be lower bandwidth or require faster sampling if they want to keep 200 MHz.

This new Rigol looks like a refresh of their top range with touch-screen.  It will probably take a while for that to reach the budget end if the market.
Personally I'm not very interested in the budget end of the market. I like things to cost as little as possible but it has to work as specified out of the box. I have looked at Rigol's DS4000 series but the bugs/lack of fixes made me choose not to buy it. Another problem for Rigol DS4000/DS6000 series is that higher end oscilloscopes which aren't boat anchors from A-brands with decoding and other nice features are becoming available on the 2nd hand market for similar prices.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Siglent are likely to bring out a four channel variant of their latest low-end 'scope, but it would have to be lower bandwidth or require faster sampling if they want to keep 200 MHz.
they can keep the 1GSps sampling rate fine and the DSO is still 200MHz BW front end... other brand incl Tek and Agilent has made DSO with sampling rate only 2.5X to 6.5X of the BW.. so 5X BW sampling rate is still perfectly fine..
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline madires

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It's about bang for the buck and what you need to get the job done. There is no perfect scope! Sometimes it makes more sense to buy cheapies for specific tasks instead of a quite expensive a-brand trying to get everthing in a single box. For example, my reaction to the price of the decoding options for R&S' new DSO was "WTF?". For that money I get a nice logic analyzer with much more bang.
 

Offline Ink

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there are some real pics of Rigol's new platform.
 
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Online dr.diesel

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I like the black case!

 - Bluetooth and speaker icon - Interesting
 - Multiple USB ports, hopefully mouse support - which I REALLY like on the RTB2ks

If Rigol dedicated more resources to FW, their higher end market could have some potential.

Offline boggis the cat

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they can keep the 1GSps sampling rate fine and the DSO is still 200MHz BW front end... other brand incl Tek and Agilent has made DSO with sampling rate only 2.5X to 6.5X of the BW.. so 5X BW sampling rate is still perfectly fine..
That gets shared per channel.

1GS/s is for one channel, half that for two, then half again for four -- so only 250 MS/s per channel.  That isn't nearly adequate for a 200 MHz signal (fine for 50 MHz, and 100 MHz is about the limit).

They could derate the bandwidth as you step from two to three / four active channels, but that would be unusual.
 


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