Author Topic: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?  (Read 1145 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hansibull

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« on: May 06, 2018, 06:45:28 pm »
Hi!
I've been annoyed with the fan in my Rigol DS1054z oscilloscope for the last two years, and finally decided to replace it with a more silent one.
I read a bunch of threads and watched a lot of videos on youtube about relating 1000z fan replacement and I went for what I believe is the most common replacement; the Gelid Silent 5.

After assembling the scope again I was first amazed by how silent it had become; it's like there's no fan in there!
Then I started worrying abut the air flow. The airflow with the new Gelid fan in noticeably less compared to the stock Sunon ME50151V3-000C-A99, but I haven't used the scope with the new fan long enough to see the long term effects of this.

Have any on you guys replaced the fan in your Rigol DS1000z?
What type of fan did you use?
Does the scope gets noticeably hotter when its been turned on for a while?
Have you seen any long term effects of this (having to replace the PSU caps etc.)?
 

Offline Candid

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 128
  • Country: de
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2018, 07:16:05 pm »
I replaced it with a SUNON HA50151V4-10000-A99. It is much more silent but has less airflow. About the Gelid I read more or less bad reviews and so I decided to look for another fan. The SUNON I installed is really much more silent not only a little like I read about the Gelid. You only hear a very silent noise and only if there is no other sound source.

I measured the output temperature directly at the fan (not before I changed it only with the new fan installed). After several hours of runtime with 4 channels on it is 33 to 36°C at 23°C room temperature. That should be fine I think.
 

Offline Twoflower

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 375
  • Country: de
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2018, 07:24:35 pm »
Have you thought about to attach heat-sinks to the ADC, FPGA and other hot running devices? I think there are thermal images floating around showing the main PCB.

This would also be a good indicator which device should be checked with an thermal-couple to see if it still runs within spec. The air-temperature of the exhaust isn't a good indicator if there's a thermal problem inside.
 
The following users thanked this post: Electro Detective

Offline hansibull

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2018, 11:33:25 pm »
Quote
I replaced it with a SUNON HA50151V4-10000-A99. It is much more silent but has less airflow. About the Gelid I read more or less bad reviews and so I decided to look for another fan. The SUNON I installed is really much more silent not only a little like I read about the Gelid. You only hear a very silent noise and only if there is no other sound source.

I measured the output temperature directly at the fan (not before I changed it only with the new fan installed). After several hours of runtime with 4 channels on it is 33 to 36°C at 23°C room temperature. That should be fine I think.

Thanks for the tip, I'll look it up  ;)

Quote
Have you thought about to attach heat-sinks to the ADC, FPGA and other hot running devices? I think there are thermal images floating around showing the main PCB.
It definitely make sense to add (bigger) heatsinks to the CPU and FPGA, but I'd like to keep the the main PCB in vanilla condition if possible. A fan that is less noisy and moves enough air is what I'm looking for. But who know what enough is?
 

Offline Twoflower

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 375
  • Country: de
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2018, 12:22:36 am »
From what I remember, the scope already running in vanilla condition very hot. Especially the ADC (which has no heat sink attached if I remember correctly). Not sure if you will find a fan that is less noisy but creates a similar throughput and pressure. You have to check both, as you can build a fan that has a lot of throughput, but not enough pressure to feed it through the scope. I wouldn'd be too surprised that a good portion of the noise comes also from the airflow itself.

So even without attaching heatsinks you should temporarily measure the temps inside, direct at the hot-spots, to check if your scope is running in spec.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8467
  • Country: 00
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2018, 08:54:26 am »
I used the Gelid because is has very similar specs to the stock fan (same air flow, a bit less static pressure but there's not much blocking the air output so no biggie).

Had no problems in 8 months of use.

The difference in noise level is incredible. I wish I'd done it the first day.

Not sure if you will find a fan that is less noisy but creates a similar throughput and pressure.

Here's the specs:

« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 08:56:20 am by Fungus »
 

Offline newbrain

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 578
  • Country: se
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2018, 05:53:12 pm »
Same as Fungus and many others I used the Gelid.
It's been going for  more or less one year with no problems (average use 1-3hrs/day) and much less noise.

When I made the mod I took temps with a TC inside and a IR gun outside before and after.

Unfortunately I have lost the data, but the difference was negligible, not more than 1-2 C after warm up.
Nandemo wa shiranai wa yo, shitteru koto dake.
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14779
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2018, 08:57:32 pm »
I used the Gelid because is has very similar specs to the stock fan (same air flow, a bit less static pressure but there's not much blocking the air output so no biggie).
Airflow means nothing. It is all about the pressure a fan can built up because that will push the air through the case. Also the specs for a cheap fan may be over stated.

In my own experience using rubber fan mounts helps a huge amount to silence a fan because the noise of the fan won't be coupled into the casing. Especially the light weight plastic casings make excellent resonant boxes.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8467
  • Country: 00
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2018, 09:20:24 pm »
I used the Gelid because is has very similar specs to the stock fan (same air flow, a bit less static pressure but there's not much blocking the air output so no biggie).
Airflow means nothing.

So why do they bother measuring it?

It is all about the pressure a fan can built up because that will push the air through the case. Also the specs for a cheap fan may be over stated.

The 'scope is designed for use in 50 degree ambient temperatures with the stock fan. I'm quite sure it's not going to die in my 24 degree office just because I used a Gelid.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 09:24:13 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14779
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2018, 09:56:01 pm »
I used the Gelid because is has very similar specs to the stock fan (same air flow, a bit less static pressure but there's not much blocking the air output so no biggie).
Airflow means nothing.
So why do they bother measuring it?
For the same reason they supply a power rating for a transistor with the junction stuck at 25 degrees C. It is the theoretical maximum airflow but it has no meaning in any practical situation. A good fan datasheet has an airflow versus pressuse graph. Only using these graphs you can compare two fans and see if one is a good replacement for the other.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8467
  • Country: 00
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2018, 10:30:16 pm »
For the same reason they supply a power rating for a transistor with the junction stuck at 25 degrees C. It is the theoretical maximum airflow but it has no meaning in any practical situation. A good fan datasheet has an airflow versus pressuse graph. Only using these graphs you can compare two fans and see if one is a good replacement for the other.

Getting back on topic, do you have any data at all that shows why this isn't a suitable replacement fan?

Any data that shows that Gelid-brand fans have unusually low static pressure performance?
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14779
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2018, 10:39:28 pm »
For the same reason they supply a power rating for a transistor with the junction stuck at 25 degrees C. It is the theoretical maximum airflow but it has no meaning in any practical situation. A good fan datasheet has an airflow versus pressuse graph. Only using these graphs you can compare two fans and see if one is a good replacement for the other.

Getting back on topic, do you have any data at all that shows why this isn't a suitable replacement fan?

Any data that shows that Gelid-brand fans have unusually low static pressure performance?
As I wrote before: put the graphs for the original fan next to the Gelid fan and you'll have your answer.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8467
  • Country: 00
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2018, 11:28:03 pm »
do you have any data at all that shows why this isn't a suitable replacement fan?

Any data that shows that Gelid-brand fans have unusually low static pressure performance?
As I wrote before: put the graphs for the original fan next to the Gelid fan and you'll have your answer.

That's a "no".


All the graphs I've ever seen have been reasonably linear. A few bumps but no big peaks or troughs, eg.


If you're such an expert on fans then you already know this. Insinuating otherwise is disingenuous on your part.

Since I've already stated that the Gelid has 25% less pressure than the Sunon, in real life we'd expect about 25% less airflow.

Is this a problem? I don't think so. For reasons that I've already stated.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 11:37:28 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline bicycleguy

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 82
  • Country: us
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2018, 06:50:34 am »
...
As I wrote before: put the graphs for the original fan next to the Gelid fan and you'll have your answer.
Unfortunately the two graphs aren't enough, you also need a curve for the flow vs pressure of the Rigol.  Without that you won't know the actual operating point of either fan.  As others have stated the best approach would be to measure the temp of the hottest (or most sensitive) component with each fan.  Derate from that.
 

Offline technogeeky

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 530
  • Country: us
  • Older New "New Player" Player Playa'
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2018, 06:53:15 am »
I just felt like pointing out that I ran my Rigol 1054z with the fan disconnected for a few months, without realizing it.

I experienced no problems whatsoever.
 
The following users thanked this post: Fungus

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14779
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2018, 07:07:14 am »
...
As I wrote before: put the graphs for the original fan next to the Gelid fan and you'll have your answer.
Unfortunately the two graphs aren't enough, you also need a curve for the flow vs pressure of the Rigol.  Without that you won't know the actual operating point of either fan.  As others have stated the best approach would be to measure the temp of the hottest (or most sensitive) component with each fan.  Derate from that.
To clarify: the graphs will show if two fans are equal under all circumstances. If you want to use a fan with lesser specs then yes you have to do measurements to see if the cooling is still adequate with the lesser fan.

In general I'd like to add that less cooling usually doesn't cause an immediate fire but it does reduce the life expectancy of the equipment (even though when it is not operated near it's maximum operating temperature). Not so nice for the next owner.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Doctorandus_P

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 144
  • Country: nl
Re: Rigol DS1000Z fan replacement. Any long term experiences?
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2018, 08:10:30 am »
I replaced the fan in my DS1052E years ago with a much bigger fan from py parts pile.
Had to put it in diagonally, glued it tightly and closed gaps with some pieces of cardboard.
Added a resistor to make the fan turn slower.

So now I have more or similar air flow with much less noise.
I think I did some temperature measurements inside, but it was years ago.

In the user manual you often see claims that stuff can only be used upto a certain height, often 3000m.
I assume this is because of reduced air pressure and therefore reduced cooling at those heights?
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf