Rigol DS1000Z now comes unlocked

[jgalak]

I ordered a DS1054Z directly from Rigol (in the US) last week, since they had dropped the price to $349.  Today I got the following email:

BND-MSO/DS1000Z for PO#REDACTED

Dear customer,

    Thank you for your recent purchase of a 1000Z series scope. As a part of a special promotion, we've included a FREE license bundle that allows you to utilize all the license options available for your product.

In order to use this bundle option, please make sure that your scope is running the current firmware at the provided link below:
http://www.rigolna.com/firmware

Please use the KEY(s) in the attached PDF(s) and your instrument serial number(s) to generate your software license code(s) from the website here.

This email is launched automatically and no responses will be received. If you have any problems, please contact RIGOL sales or distributors directly.

Thanks,

RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES

I have no idea if this is limited time or not, nor do I know which options are included in "all the license options" since I've not yet gotten the scope.  Most specifically, I don't know if this includes the bandwidth upgrade that hacking the scope can get you.  From the title of the email, it looks like this is applicable to all 1000Z series scopes, DS and MSO.

[bd139]

Perhaps they gave up. Or saw the Siglent coming.

[jgalak]

Perhaps they gave up. Or saw the Siglent coming.

Those are exactly my first two thoughts when I saw the email.

[Fungus]

I doubt you get the 100MHz, it's not an official upgrade.

Perhaps they gave up. Or saw the Siglent coming.

Those are exactly my first two thoughts when I saw the email.

If you don't know about the hack then the "50MHz", no options Rigol doesn't look good next to the 100MHz Siglent.

And ... the "100MHz" Rigol is now facing the 200MHz Siglent on price.

Not good for Xmas sales.

[lundmar]

OMG! I see Rigol still forces people to register when they want to simply download their latest firmware!?

It's so freaking stupid and sooooo bloody annoying!

[Fungus]

OMG! I see Rigol still forces people to register when they want to simply download their latest firmware!?

It's so freaking stupid and sooooo bloody annoying!

Get it here:

http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/fs/blocks/showLandingPage/a/1579/p/p-0019/t/page/fm/0

[lundmar]

OMG! I see Rigol still forces people to register when they want to simply download their latest firmware!?

It's so freaking stupid and sooooo bloody annoying!

Get it here:

http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/fs/blocks/showLandingPage/a/1579/p/p-0019/t/page/fm/0

Yes, I know. The point is that Rigol should not go to such lengths to make it so troublesome to download their latest firmware. Rigol should just put the firmware with direct links on the product firmware pages and not require registration to get to those download links!

I'm sure I'm not the only one annoyed by how Rigol distributes their firmware.

[technix]

AFAIK some Chinese companies take the firmware download as a chance to slurp up as much user information as possible for their marketing department. Geez.

[Someone]

AFAIK some Chinese companies take the firmware download as a chance to slurp up as much user information as possible for their marketing department. Geez.

Its spreading across all countries/industries/companies

Nvidia are pushing down this road:
https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/5u1m7u/nvidia_want_to_update_drivers_have_to_login/

Its becoming routine for companies to refuse to serve you unless they have your email address, phone number, postal address, etc even when none of those are required to deliver the service. The advertising networks they work with need the data to keep linking their profiles of you across as many platforms as possible.

[lundmar]

AFAIK some Chinese companies take the firmware download as a chance to slurp up as much user information as possible for their marketing department. Geez.

Its spreading across all countries/industries/companies

Nvidia are pushing down this road:
https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/5u1m7u/nvidia_want_to_update_drivers_have_to_login/

Its becoming routine for companies to refuse to serve you unless they have your email address, phone number, postal address, etc even when none of those are required to deliver the service. The advertising networks they work with need the data to keep linking their profiles of you across as many platforms as possible.

It's corporate bullshit that's what it is!

[SkyMaster]

I ordered a DS1054Z directly from Rigol (in the US) last week, since they had dropped the price to $349.  Today I got the following email:

Dear customer,

    Thank you for your recent purchase of a 1000Z series scope. As a part of a special promotion, we've included a FREE license bundle that allows you to utilize all the license options available for your product.

I have no idea if this is limited time or not, nor do I know which options are included in "all the license options" since I've not yet gotten the scope.  Most specifically, I don't know if this includes the bandwidth upgrade that hacking the scope can get you.  From the title of the email, it looks like this is applicable to all 1000Z series scopes, DS and MSO.

The licence bundle contains all the available options.

But the 100 MHz "bandwidth upgrade" of the DS1054Z is not an option.

The licence bundle will not unlock your DS1054Z to 100 MHz.

 

[Fungus]

AFAIK some Chinese companies take the firmware download as a chance to slurp up as much user information as possible for their marketing department. Geez.

Its spreading across all countries/industries/companies

Nvidia are pushing down this road:
https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/5u1m7u/nvidia_want_to_update_drivers_have_to_login/

Its becoming routine for companies to refuse to serve you unless they have your email address, phone number, postal address, etc even when none of those are required to deliver the service. The advertising networks they work with need the data to keep linking their profiles of you across as many platforms as possible.

It's corporate bullshit that's what it is!

I just typed in a load of garbage, including bad serial number, and it still worked.

This is my default action for these things. It often surprises people when I don't automatically type in all my personal details when I see a form on a web page.

If somebody insists on emailing a download link to me (which Rigol doesn't) they'll get a mailinator address.

If they're checking for mailinator addresses then they get a special email address with their company name in it that'll be set to "bounce" mode right after I use the link. Mailinator is a useful filter, anybody checks for mailinator addresses in their web page is a guaranteed asshole who should never be given a real email address.

[technix]

I ordered a DS1054Z directly from Rigol (in the US) last week, since they had dropped the price to $349.  Today I got the following email:

Dear customer,

    Thank you for your recent purchase of a 1000Z series scope. As a part of a special promotion, we've included a FREE license bundle that allows you to utilize all the license options available for your product.

I have no idea if this is limited time or not, nor do I know which options are included in "all the license options" since I've not yet gotten the scope.  Most specifically, I don't know if this includes the bandwidth upgrade that hacking the scope can get you.  From the title of the email, it looks like this is applicable to all 1000Z series scopes, DS and MSO.

The licence bundle contains all the available options.

But the 100 MHz "bandwidth upgrade" of the DS1054Z is not an option.

The licence bundle will not unlock your DS1054Z to 100 MHz.

 

Well there is still Riglol after all.

[rhb]

Everyone requires registration to download anything now.  Even Keysight.

[woody]

If they're checking for mailinator addresses then they get a special email address with their company name in it that'll be set to "bounce" mode right after I use the link.

I use this as a standard practice. Just create rigol@mydomain.nl as an alias. As soon as the first unsolicited mail arrives the alias gets deleted. Problem solved. And for mandatory addresses / phone numbers the supermarket around the corner is a nice lightning rod 

[Fungus]

I use this as a standard practice. Just create rigol@mydomain.nl as an alias.

Me too but it requires having your own domains/server, which a lot of people don't.

As soon as the first unsolicited mail arrives the alias gets deleted. Problem solved.

I prefer to send back a "Die, spammer!" message. YMMV.

[Mr. Scram]

Nvidia are pushing down this road:
https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/5u1m7u/nvidia_want_to_update_drivers_have_to_login/

Its becoming routine for companies to refuse to serve you unless they have your email address, phone number, postal address, etc even when none of those are required to deliver the service. The advertising networks they work with need the data to keep linking their profiles of you across as many platforms as possible.

You need accounts for everything now. Want to get on the bus? You need an account. Want to get a haircut? You need an account. You want to use a discrete program offline? You need an account. It's absolutely maddening.

[Fungus]

You need accounts for everything now. Want to get on the bus? You need an account. Want to get a haircut? You need an account. You want to use a discrete program offline? You need an account. It's absolutely maddening.

All the more reason to have several fake accounts and/or ways to create new ones on the spur of the moment. Accounts which identify the other party by name as part of the identifier are especially useful.

PS: Anybody else remember being hassled for their name/address in Radio Shack every time they bought something?

[frozenfrogz]

On the Rigol site you can insert random data to get to the download link. The form does not even do a sanity check on the serial number, so you can just go Mr. A. B, a@b.cd Ser#1 etc.
It is bad practice to force this on customers but in return I am willing to clutter up the database of these companies with garbled datasets.
Some companies like Zortrax (desktop 3D printer) don’t even want to let you download firmware or software tools without a correct serial number.
I just noted when a friend who owns a Zortrax asked me to help with some printing settings. If I had bought the machine myself this would be returned to the re-seller ASAP.

[Mr. Scram]

All the more reason to have several fake accounts and/or ways to create new ones on the spur of the moment. Accounts which identify the other party by name as part of the identifier are especially useful.

PS: Anybody else remember being hassled for their name/address in Radio Shack every time they bought something?

Fake accounts still provide real metadata. They might not know your real name, but they do get to track your habits and things like your IP.

[jgalak]

You need accounts for everything now. Want to get on the bus? You need an account. Want to get a haircut? You need an account. You want to use a discrete program offline? You need an account. It's absolutely maddening.

Hell, I literally can't drive my car without an account...

[IAmBack]

Here
http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3
FW is also "free available".
BTW, is it the most recent version?

[Old Printer]

You need accounts for everything now. Want to get on the bus? You need an account. Want to get a haircut? You need an account. You want to use a discrete program offline? You need an account. It's absolutely maddening.

Hell, I literally can't drive my car without an account...

How about trying to buy something at CVS or Wallgreens. They all but demand to scan the card. Unless I need it to get a sale price I won't let them do it, but make sure they can see the card hanging on my key ring just to Africans rmem. . I have had them reach out with the scanner after I have told them no. Reminds me of the old RadioShack days.

[frozenfrogz]

I absolutely despise these »bonus« cards i.e. customer tracking. However, I think about investigating a bit more in what I can do personally with all the RFID data nodes that are out in the wild being carried around by unsuspecting people.
I am very interested in building one of those long range RFID readers that you can carry around but need to first learn more about antennas. Don’t feel like paying a couple hundred € for one of those HID MaxiProx 5375 devices atm.

[Fungus]

Reminds me of the old RadioShack days.

The best part of the RadioShack days was that they'd always spell something a tiny bit differently becasue they were hand written and you'd end up with half a dozen of those stupid catalogs. 

[bd139]

We have that with Machine Mart now in the UK.

I liked the Tandy (UK Radio Shack) catalogues. It gave me something to be angry at (the pricing).

[Mr. Scram]

Hell, I literally can't drive my car without an account...

Tesla? Unfortunately, my examples were all real life and first hand. It's ridiculous.

[Muttley Snickers]

Saelig recently released a video showing the different ways in which the licenses can be installed on the Rigol, might be of interest to some owners and probably belongs here.

[Old Printer]

Reminds me of the old RadioShack days.

The best part of the RadioShack days was that they'd always spell something a tiny bit differently becasue they were hand written and you'd end up with half a dozen of those stupid catalogs. 

Used to love those catalogues! That was before Al Gore invented the Internet. They had specs and pricing and were worn out by the time the next one came out. When they stopped mailing them to everyone you had to be fast or know someone at RS just to get one. All us nerds knew the day they were sent to the stores and tried to ply an extra copy from the shirt protector guy there. Good old days indeed.

[blacksheeplogic]

OMG! I see Rigol still forces people to register when they want to simply download their latest firmware!?

Key sight does the same though MyKeysight even to get a quote. Other side f the coin is that they have your details/equipment linked to your account when you need support.

With the amount of money I invested in my scopes, I did not have a problem creating an account and registering with them. After all if the company is that shady that you feel uncomfortable registering you equipment probably better not to do business with them in the first place.

[Mr. Scram]

Key sight does the same though MyKeysight even to get a quote. Other side f the coin is that they have your details/equipment linked to your account when you need support.

With the amount of money I invested in my scopes, I did not have a problem creating an account and registering with them. After all if the company is that shady that you feel uncomfortable registering you equipment probably better not to do business with them in the first place.

That's a non sequitur I'm afraid. I trust a pilot with my life, but he doesn't need to know personal details. Especially considering a lot of these pilots sell those details for extra cash.

[jgalak]

Hell, I literally can't drive my car without an account...

Tesla? Unfortunately, my examples were all real life and first hand. It's ridiculous.

Yes.

[lundmar]

OMG! I see Rigol still forces people to register when they want to simply download their latest firmware!?

Key sight does the same though MyKeysight even to get a quote. Other side f the coin is that they have your details/equipment linked to your account when you need support.

With the amount of money I invested in my scopes, I did not have a problem creating an account and registering with them. After all if the company is that shady that you feel uncomfortable registering you equipment probably better not to do business with them in the first place.

For support I'm okay with registering. However, for simply downloading the latest and greatest firmware for your product, registering is nothing but a silly and completely unnecessary annoyance! 

[blacksheeplogic]

That's a non sequitur I'm afraid. I trust a pilot with my life, but he doesn't need to know personal details. Especially considering a lot of these pilots sell those details for extra cash.

So the airline the pilot works for just knows you as Mr X?

[Mr. Scram]

So the airline the pilot works for just knows you as Mr X?

That doesn't really matter, does it? It's not a given that when you trust someone with one thing, you trust them with others. Especially when it comes to data in today's world, it's just better for people not to have it when they don't need it to serve you, unless you want to voluntarily help them with it of course.

[orin]

I absolutely despise these »bonus« cards i.e. customer tracking.

A while back, I noticed prices increasing in a local grocery store.  Then they introduced one of those cards.  When the cashier told me I'd need one to get their 'customer advantage' prices, I told them they had just lost a customer.  They put the prices up, then you had to get the card to get the original price is what it looked like to me.

I will also not willingly shop in a US Safeway for the same reason.  Listen to this Safeway marketing dweebs, I have not willingly shopped in Safeway for 30 years because of your stupid card.

[Mr. Scram]

A while back, I noticed prices increasing in a local grocery store.  Then they introduced one of those cards.  When the cashier told me I'd need one to get their 'customer advantage' prices, I told them they had just lost a customer.  They put the prices up, then you had to get the card to get the original price is what it looked like to me.

I will also not willingly shop in a US Safeway for the same reason.  Listen to this Safeway marketing dweebs, I have not willingly shopped in Safeway for 30 years because of your stupid card.

There should be laws prohibiting putting financial pressure on privacy related matters. If you have a "free choice", but one option costs you money and the other doesn't, the choice isn't that free any more. Especially when these principles are applied in larger quantities. Privacy should not be a luxury.

[rsjsouza]

OMG! I see Rigol still forces people to register when they want to simply download their latest firmware!?

Key sight does the same though MyKeysight even to get a quote. Other side f the coin is that they have your details/equipment linked to your account when you need support.

With the amount of money I invested in my scopes, I did not have a problem creating an account and registering with them. After all if the company is that shady that you feel uncomfortable registering you equipment probably better not to do business with them in the first place.

For support I'm okay with registering. However, for simply downloading the latest and greatest firmware for your product, registering is nothing but a silly and completely unnecessary annoyance! 

To me the price of registering to receive continued support through manuals (which sometimes goes through updating), firmware and specs is a very low price to pay.
I just don't expect to continuously receive updates and support without giving anything in return.

[Mr. Scram]

To me the price of registering to receive continued support through manuals (which sometimes goes through updating), firmware and specs is a very low price to pay.
I just don't expect to continuously receive updates and support without giving anything in return.

You gave them money when you bought the product. That should be enough. If your product is complex enough to warrant support and updates after the fact, it's part of the original deal.

Or you should ship a product that's perfect and doesn't ever require any updating, but we all know that's a ridiculous fantasy.

[Fungus]

I just don't expect to continuously receive updates and support without giving anything in return.

You gave them money when you bought the device.

[lundmar]

OMG! I see Rigol still forces people to register when they want to simply download their latest firmware!?

Key sight does the same though MyKeysight even to get a quote. Other side f the coin is that they have your details/equipment linked to your account when you need support.

With the amount of money I invested in my scopes, I did not have a problem creating an account and registering with them. After all if the company is that shady that you feel uncomfortable registering you equipment probably better not to do business with them in the first place.

For support I'm okay with registering. However, for simply downloading the latest and greatest firmware for your product, registering is nothing but a silly and completely unnecessary annoyance! 

To me the price of registering to receive continued support through manuals (which sometimes goes through updating), firmware and specs is a very low price to pay.
I just don't expect to continuously receive updates and support without giving anything in return.

Ok, let me expand my point here!

If you are an instrument manufacturer and you require customers to register to access latest firmware, manuals, specs, or even MSRP - THEN YOU ARE BLOODY DOING IT WRONG! 

This is 2017 and the days of such arcane mechanisms are over.

[rsjsouza]

To me the price of registering to receive continued support through manuals (which sometimes goes through updating), firmware and specs is a very low price to pay.
I just don't expect to continuously receive updates and support without giving anything in return.

You gave them money when you bought the product. That should be enough. If your product is complex enough to warrant support and updates after the fact, it's part of the original deal.

Or you should ship a product that's perfect and doesn't ever require any updating, but we all know that's a ridiculous fantasy.

Well, I disagree. IMHO I think the money paid for the equipment is valid for some time, not forever.

I just don't expect to continuously receive updates and support without giving anything in return.

You gave them money when you bought the device.

See above.

To me the price of registering to receive continued support through manuals (which sometimes goes through updating), firmware and specs is a very low price to pay.
I just don't expect to continuously receive updates and support without giving anything in return.

Ok, let me expand my point here!

If you are an instrument manufacturer and you require customers to register to access latest firmware, manuals, specs, or even MSRP - THEN YOU ARE BLOODY DOING IT WRONG! 

This is 2017 and the days of such arcane mechanisms are over.

In your opinion. Capitalizing your opinion does not make it right, you know?

[Fungus]

I just don't expect to continuously receive updates and support without giving anything in return.

You gave them money when you bought the device.

IMHO I think the money paid for the equipment is valid for some time, not forever.

Let's see if I've got this: If I go to their web page for firmware in the first week after purchase (for example) I shouldn't have to give them all my details yet, right?

[Jeroen3]

I just got an e-mail from Batronix, looks like they've lowered the option pricings.
My scope was bought april 2015, and they've sent me an offer for the four (memory, decoder, trigger, recoder) for € 196.35.

[Efig]

I also got an e-mail from Batronix. Trying to milk the customers. Mine is purchased in Jan 2015.
Single option for 98.18 €, four for 196.35.

[bd139]

http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/

Cheaper 

I wouldn't have bought the Rigol if I couldn't crack it.

[lundmar]

I also got an e-mail from Batronix. Trying to milk the customers. Mine is purchased in Jan 2015.
Single option for 98.18 €, four for 196.35.

I got that email too. It's a bargain - I don't know what you guys are waiting for - go buy now! 

[Jeroen3]

I also got an e-mail from Batronix. Trying to milk the customers. Mine is purchased in Jan 2015.
Single option for 98.18 €, four for 196.35.

I got that email too. It's a bargain - I don't know what you guys are waiting for - go buy now! 

Still, 200 is a much better deal than before. Now it is actually possible to consider it.
However, I already have the options unlocked.

[frozenfrogz]

I don’t think they ever sold a lot of "options".
Even without the hackability I did not find the prices very appealing. Most options each were 1/4 the price of the hardware unit - not reasonable at all.

[Fungus]

I don’t think they ever sold a lot of "options".
Even without the hackability I did not find the prices very appealing.

Without the hackability it's just another wannabe.

eg. I suspect GW-Instek would have sold a lot more 'scopes without the free Rigol upgrades.

[bd139]

I would have bought a GW GDS-1104B scope if it wasn't for the Rigol hack so your likely close to the mark there.

I'm not sure I shouldn't have bought one anyway if I'm honest.

[rsjsouza]

I just don't expect to continuously receive updates and support without giving anything in return.

You gave them money when you bought the device.

IMHO I think the money paid for the equipment is valid for some time, not forever.

Let's see if I've got this: If I go to their web page for firmware in the first week after purchase (for example) I shouldn't have to give them all my details yet, right?

In my opinion, yes. Well, you would have to provide some proof of ownership - the serial number comes to mind.

I have registered to the myKeysight website and added a bunch of serial numbers for stuff I have purchased either new or used from eBay. The fact they leave the resources available (documents, specs, etc.) in a concise list for even the oldest stuff (a 3314, a 5300B/5308) is to me a nice service in exchange for a "low price".

[Fungus]

Let's see if I've got this: If I go to their web page for firmware in the first week after purchase (for example) I shouldn't have to give them all my details yet, right?

In my opinion, yes. Well, you would have to provide some proof of ownership - the serial number comes to mind.

Why would I be downloading firmware for something I don't own?

I might be downloading a manual to make a purchase decision, ie. I don't own anything yet but I want to see the manual. Would you block me from downloading it? That could lead to a lot of lost sales if your competitor is more open.

How about we just add an optional section to pages called: "Give us your details, we'll email you constantly for the rest of your life". That makes everybody happy.

[Mr. Scram]

Keysight seems to do this too. To download the manual for an LCR meter, you have to enter your details. That alone is enough to make me look for other options. I just want to see whether the unit operates the way I'd expect it to.

[Mr. Scram]

In my opinion, yes. Well, you would have to provide some proof of ownership - the serial number comes to mind.

I have registered to the myKeysight website and added a bunch of serial numbers for stuff I have purchased either new or used from eBay. The fact they leave the resources available (documents, specs, etc.) in a concise list for even the oldest stuff (a 3314, a 5300B/5308) is to me a nice service in exchange for a "low price".

Why on Earth wouldn't Keysight want to publicly provide firmware? Having to enter your details is just an artificial barrier and they lose nothing by just providing it, other than the chance to harass you or sell on your details.

Providing the service you mention is fine, but don't make it mandatory, unless you've explicitly stated it to be so in the overview of specifications listed on the website. Everyone is free to throw away their privacy, but making it mandatory is another thing completely.

[bd139]

Problem solved

[Mr. Scram]

Problem solved

I tend to use descriptive addresses, like registeringfor@amanualsucks.com. Some more extravagant requests are met with more colourful addresses and details

[james_s]

Its becoming routine for companies to refuse to serve you unless they have your email address, phone number, postal address, etc even when none of those are required to deliver the service. The advertising networks they work with need the data to keep linking their profiles of you across as many platforms as possible.

I have a couple of secondary email accounts for just this purpose, and I try to keep my online presence polluted with just enough bogus information to make it useless.

Those Rigol scopes are getting cheap enough I'm tempted to grab one just to have a small portable DSO I can toss in my bag and go.

[Mr. Scram]

I have a couple of secondary email accounts for just this purpose, and I try to keep my online presence polluted with just enough bogus information to make it useless.

Those Rigol scopes are getting cheap enough I'm tempted to grab one just to have a small portable DSO I can toss in my bag and go.

Don't count on noise to save you. The algorithms are adept at filtering it and they get better every day. The problem is that technology is better at finding patterns than humans are at being unpredictable.

[jgalak]

Soooo, since everyone is talking firmware, my brand hew DS1054Z says "00.04.04 SP3".  The latest download from Rigol ends in "00.04.04.03.02".  Is this the same firmware or should I update?

[Fungus]

Soooo, since everyone is talking firmware, my brand hew DS1054Z says "00.04.04 SP3".  The latest download from Rigol ends in "00.04.04.03.02".  Is this the same firmware or should I update?

You're looking at the ordinary system info. To see the full info you need to press these buttons (fairly quickly or it doesn't work):

Menu -> Menu -> Force -> Menu -> Utility -> System -> System Info

[james_s]

Don't count on noise to save you. The algorithms are adept at filtering it and they get better every day. The problem is that technology is better at finding patterns than humans are at being unpredictable.

Well if I had real reason to hide then I'd take additional precautions, but I figure a bit of low effort obfuscation is just enough to keep me from being low hanging fruit.

Frankly even if companies had a detailed and accurate marketing profile on me it wouldn't be of much value, most of what I buy is used, and very rarely on impulse. I tend to go looking for specific items, research carefully and then shop around before I buy. Advertisements generally put me off rather than attract me to a product so generally speaking companies are wasting their time marketing to me.

[frozenfrogz]

Soooo, since everyone is talking firmware, my brand hew DS1054Z says "00.04.04 SP3".  The latest download from Rigol ends in "00.04.04.03.02".  Is this the same firmware or should I update?

00.04.04 SP3 == 00.04.04.03.02

[jgalak]

Soooo, since everyone is talking firmware, my brand hew DS1054Z says "00.04.04 SP3".  The latest download from Rigol ends in "00.04.04.03.02".  Is this the same firmware or should I update?

You're looking at the ordinary system info. To see the full info you need to press these buttons (fairly quickly or it doesn't work):

Menu -> Menu -> Force -> Menu -> Utility -> System -> System Info

Now that I'm at the scope, which menu? There's several menu buttons.

[jgalak]

Ah, got it!  The trigger menu button worked.

[Mr. Scram]

Well if I had real reason to hide then I'd take additional precautions, but I figure a bit of low effort obfuscation is just enough to keep me from being low hanging fruit.

Frankly even if companies had a detailed and accurate marketing profile on me it wouldn't be of much value, most of what I buy is used, and very rarely on impulse. I tend to go looking for specific items, research carefully and then shop around before I buy. Advertisements generally put me off rather than attract me to a product so generally speaking companies are wasting their time marketing to me.

This is another discussion completely, but it turns out most consumers feel they're not influenced by commercials, make sensible and well deliberated decisions and dislike commercials. It's one of the ways humans lie to themselves, and place themselves above others. Obviously, the massive marketing budgets and research done indicate something quite different.

It's a bit like how 85% of drivers consider themselves above average drivers. You don't need to be a rocket surgeon to see the problem there.

[Fungus]

I just got an email from Batronix as well:

we have been able to negotiate a deal with the manufacturer Rigol for all Batronix customers of the DS1000Z and MSO1000Z series. Your Rigol DS1054Z that we sent to you on 19.09.2014 can also benefit from it.

I wasn't Rigol that approached you...? 

For your Rigol DS1054Z, there are four interesting software options that you can get at a very special price now:

- SA-DS1000Z: Decoder package for RS232, I²C and SPI signal decoding and triggering.
- AT-DS1000Z: Extension of the trigger options with Runt, Windows, Nth Edge, Delay and Timeout triggers.
- MEM-DS1000Z: Memory expansion to 24 Mpts. The memory is already installed and can be unlocked with this extension.
- REC-DS1000Z: Recording module for recording and playback of waveforms.

You can now get these four enhancements to upgrade your Rigol DS1054Z in a package for only € 196.35 instead of the regular price of € 731.85 (both prices incl. VAT)!

If you only need a single license of the four, we can offer them as part of the promotion at half price!
For example, you can get the popular serial decoders license for only € 98.18 incl. VAT. Use the coupon code XXXXX in the shopping cart.

The promotion runs until 31.12.2017.

What should I do? 

PS: The email arrived at address "batronix@mydomain.com". It's the first email that's arrived at that address since I bought the 'scope so I guess we can safely say that Batronix aren't spammers. 

[ebastler]

What should I do? 

Legalize it! 

Or, wait -- what would be the benefit, for a scope that's already well out of warranty?
Hmm...
Maybe not... 

[frozenfrogz]

PS: The email arrived at address "batronix@mydomain.com".

Nice to see other people using the same technique to deal with SPAM Using unique identifiers / addresses for each vendor has been working out well for me the past ten years as well. I also caught signs of a Trojan infection on a companies computer that could be traced back to the infected machine after getting in touch with their IT department due to this and keeping a record of most mail conversations. 

[xani]

i was using myemail+sitename@maildomain but some companies started blocking STANDARD AND VALID + character in the email...

[woody]

And then there was Samsung, that did not like samsung@mydomain.nl when I needed to apply for the 50 euro cashback deal on my S7. Fortunately they had no problems with sam-sung@mydomain.nl 

[zike]

I just received one of these and installed the (official, "$350 equivalent value", now free) unlock code. Status now reports all *available* options as "official," and they do appear to work.

It does *not* now claim to be a DS1104Z, as a hacked/unlocked unit apparently would.

But... I took it into the lab, and (according to venerated gods of Marconi, HP and Tektronix) the rise time is about 3.5 ns, and the 3dB bandwidth is something like 100 MHz... what gives?

I don't really feel like un-installing the opts just to see if it was precocious  to start with. Has anyone else tested what actual bandwidth you get out of the box with a stock, un-optioned DS1054Z ? These Rigol threads are so utterly choked with bull$hi+, you can't find anything that was actually measured.

I had already generated a Riglol hack code, but under the circumstances I'll probably keep the little guy under warranty; the better is the true enemy of the good :^)

[MarkF]

There is a bw decision here:
  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/rogol-1054z-actual-bandwidth/msg1337110/#msg1337110

I believe someone posted actual bw results in another thread.  Maybe the huge "Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus" thread.  But, I can't find the orginal post.

[ebastler]

I had already generated a Riglol hack code, but under the circumstances I'll probably keep the little guy under warranty; the better is the true enemy of the good :^)

Other users have also found that the nominal bandwidth values stated for the 50 and 70 MHz models were conservative; although yours seems to be quite generous.

You can always try to apply the "full bandwidth" Riglol code, measure the bandwidth to see how much it improves further, and uninstall the option again if you are concerned about warranty. (Uninstall all options via the SCPI command "system:option:uninstall", then reapply the official ones.)

[Fungus]

I just received one of these and installed the (official, "$350 equivalent value", now free) unlock code. Status now reports all *available* options as "official," and they do appear to work.

It does *not* now claim to be a DS1104Z, as a hacked/unlocked unit apparently would.

Yes, they show "DS1104Z" in the system info.

But... I took it into the lab, and (according to venerated gods of Marconi, HP and Tektronix) the rise time is about 3.5 ns, and the 3dB bandwidth is something like 100 MHz... what gives?

The bandwidth figures are quite conservative, 100MHz is lucky though. Have you tried all 4 channels?

(Imagine if you unlock it...!  )

[SkyMaster]

I just received one of these and installed the (official, "$350 equivalent value", now free) unlock code. Status now reports all *available* options as "official," and they do appear to work.

It does *not* now claim to be a DS1104Z, as a hacked/unlocked unit apparently would.

Yes, they show "DS1104Z" in the system info.

Installing the Rigol licence bundle does not turn the DS1054Z into a DS1104Z.

The Rigol licence bundle is installing all the available options, and the "100 MHz bandwidth hack" is not an option; it is a "hack". And this hack is not part of the Rigol licence bundle.

Installing the Rigol licence bundle to the DS1054Z give you a DS1054Z with all the available options (without any "100 MHz bandwidth hack").

 

[zike]

The bandwidth figures are quite conservative, 100MHz is lucky though. Have you tried all 4 channels?

(Imagine if you unlock it...!  )

Yep all 4 channels similar. Main aberration is about 1-1.5 ns  roundoff (what we used to call "dribble-up") on the last 25% of the rise (such that a 20-80% rise time would sound even more impressive...). I'm using a tunnel diode pulser with 50 ps intrinsic, and a feedthrough terminator measured at about 150 ps using a sampling rig.

Re: how much better it could get with unlocking, I may yet perform the experiment; but before we get too excited remember, filter rise times are not additive! (for simple cases they "RSS", but you get the point...).

[ebastler]

I just received one of these and installed the (official, "$350 equivalent value", now free) unlock code. Status now reports all *available* options as "official," and they do appear to work.
It does *not* now claim to be a DS1104Z, as a hacked/unlocked unit apparently would.

Yes, they show "DS1104Z" in the system info.

No, this is wrong. Installing the Rigol licence bundle does not turn the DS1054Z into a DS1104Z.

I think we are all on the same page here. Fungus' comment that "they" show a DS1104Z designation was referring to zike's last partial sentence, which mentioned the hacked, bandwidth-upgraded scopes. (Emphasis added in that quote.)

[SkyMaster]

I think we are all on the same page here. Fungus' comment that "they" show a DS1104Z designation was referring to zike's last partial sentence, which mentioned the hacked, bandwidth-upgraded scopes. (Emphasis added in that quote.)

ebastler, based on what you wrote, I modified my comment.

 

[zike]

Re: how much better it could get with unlocking, I may yet perform the experiment; but before we get too excited remember, filter rise times are not additive! (for simple cases they "RSS", but you get the point...).

And... down another rabbit hole I go. Will I never learn?

Turns out my stock 1054Z, and/or hacked/unlocked pseudo-1104Z, can have any 3dB bandwidth you like, from about 80 MHz to over 260 MHz, depending on input range. 

The test mentioned above used a tunnel diode pulser which is fixed at 200 mV step size. I switched to an Avtech AVO-E2 which delivers up to 50V steps with <500ps risetime. I used a Marconi 2022A and a Wavetek 1801C for CW. Test waveforms were confirmed with an HP5316B opt 003 (1 GHz) and a Tek 7904/7A24/7B85 analog scope (BW>400 MHz). A Tek 50? feedthru terminator was placed directly on the 1054Z input. This and all BNC and SMA 50? attenuators/adapters/cables employed were good > 2 GHz.

Rigol inputs DC coupled, probe x1, BW limit OFF (btw I confirmed it is actually 27 MHz when ON); acq mode NORMAL, 1 Gs/sec, anti-alias OFF.

I ran each test through all 4 channels. Channel 1 seems systematically a few % slower, if anything, so that is what I'll quote. This is in the pseudo-1104Z (hacked) mode:

range (V/div)	rise (ns)	f_3dB (MHz)
5 m	2.7	140
50 m	2.8	176
500 m	1.9	260
5	1.5	270

For comparison, in the standard (stock 1054Z) mode I did not bother with the 3dB bandwidth, but here are the corresponding risetimes:

range (V/div)	rise (ns)
5 m	4.5
50 m	4.4
500 m	2.1
5	1.8

Some may call freebie bandwidth a "feature", seeing as how it seems to be a $$ commodity, but in my view "variable" bandwidth is definitely a bug (or more accurately, poor engineering).

That said, I also do not understand how it comes about.

According to the teardown and "reverse engineering" blogs, there is one physical relay-switched x50 attenuator (which comes on between 200 mV and 500 mV/div). The remaining "attenuator" settings are all accomplished by throwing away bits post-conversion (inside the HMCAD1511 ADC chip). 

• Why would the bandwidth _increase_ when the physical attenuator is inserted?
• And within a range (with or without), why would the bandwidth change at all depending on digital gain settings?

Just to make this post the longest in history, here are screen shots of the "pseudo 1104Z" response at 5 V/div and 5 mV/div, respectively:

[Fungus]

Some may call freebie bandwidth a "feature", seeing as how it seems to be a $$ commodity, but in my view "variable" bandwidth is definitely a bug (or more accurately, poor engineering).

Why "poor"? How exactly would you build it if you're an engineer who's been told to design a 100MHz, 4-channel oscilloscope which retails for $399?

For all you know it might be an extremely ingenious design, given that constraint.

[zike]

Why "poor"? How exactly would you build it if you're an engineer who's been told to design a 100MHz, 4-channel oscilloscope which retails for $399?

For all you know it might be an extremely ingenious design, given that constraint.

Very sorry, I chose the word "poorly". I did not intend insult; in fact I have to agree, the design is quite ingenious in many respects! The discrete 2N3904/6 front end truly warms my heart.

No, rather than call it "poor" I should instead say they appear to have overlooked a very important functional principle, and thereby missed an opportunity.

First, it could add no more than a few cents to the BOM to include a passive 150 MHz filter (simple or fancy) ahead of the ADC. Even a switchable filter section or two, presuming one wanted different compensation at different ranges, would be no more bother than they evidently found acceptable for software-gelding the low-end models.  I could sketch you something in a few minutes on DaveCad^TM and even tell you the BOM cost if you want, but again, I know Rigol could/would do a much better job.

The reason should be obvious, but to beat it to death: all test instruments have limits, and bandwidth is a fundamental one. Input voltage range should be a scalar, not a tensor.

A very typical 'scope application is checking signal integrity on either side of an attenuator, filter or amplifier. Invisibly calling up a factor of two different instrument bandwidth when you simply flip input ranges to account for the attenuation (gain) means you will see artifacts at the input (output) that are not seen at the output (input). You will make false conclusions about your DUT. Suppose you look with, and then without, a x10 probe. Is your probe bad? Were you loading the circuit? Or did simply dialing up the range for the probe factor just introduce a whole new set of sampling artifacts??

This is particularly egregious on a sampling instrument that has no protection against aliasing! The measured 3dB point at 5V/div evidently exceeds the sampling rate (not just Nyquist) when 3 or 4 channels are selected!! Even at 1 Gs/sec, in the 5V/div picture above, there are less than 2 samples in the pulse transition. The apparent pre- (!) and post- over/undershoot/ringing are obvious figments of sinc interpolation.

Back in the day Tektronix worked very hard to match attenuator bandwidth within 5 or 10% from top to bottom (I don't know what they do now). This is a fundamental property of a scope front end, it directly affects functional utility as a test instrument.  It is not "negotiable" for a few cents of profit margin.

They really did an amazing job with this machine, and I do really like it (as an old analog geezer I never thought I'd say such a thing!). It's  such a shame to miss this trick; I hope they (and you) take my comment constructively for next time :~)

Cheers,

Zike

[Fungus]

it could add no more than a few cents to the BOM to include a passive 150 MHz filter (simple or fancy) ahead of the ADC.

There's already a passive filter on the 50MHz (locked) version. 

[zike]

it could add no more than a few cents to the BOM to include a passive 150 MHz filter (simple or fancy) ahead of the ADC.

There's already a passive filter on the 50MHz (locked) version. 

Which only adds to the mystery: at 5V/div, the LOCKED (50 MHz) unit shows a rise time of 1.8 ns! That's 200 MHz.

Something else is going on here.  Anybody?

[2N3055]

it could add no more than a few cents to the BOM to include a passive 150 MHz filter (simple or fancy) ahead of the ADC.

There's already a passive filter on the 50MHz (locked) version. 

Which only adds to the mystery: at 5V/div, the LOCKED (50 MHz) unit shows a rise time of 1.8 ns! That's 200 MHz.

Something else is going on here.  Anybody?

You have to do frequency sweep with a frequency generator and look for a -3dB point.
Pulse measurements are deceptive..
What are specifications for the pulse you are using? 
Pulse generator must have fast edge, but then hast to settle without overshoot at top level, and stay there for at least 10-20 nsec.. longer is better..
Short,narrow pulses will show unrealistically fast response... Same with overshoot...

Regards,
Sinisa

[nctnico]

Some may call freebie bandwidth a "feature", seeing as how it seems to be a $$ commodity, but in my view "variable" bandwidth is definitely a bug (or more accurately, poor engineering).

That said, I also do not understand how it comes about.

The lower V/div ranges will need amplification in order to drive the ADC to full scale so what you are looking at is the limited bandwidth of the input amplifier.

[zike]

You have to do frequency sweep with a frequency generator and look for a -3dB point.
Pulse measurements are deceptive..
What are specifications for the pulse you are using? 
Pulse generator must have fast edge, but then hast to settle without overshoot at top level, and stay there for at least 10-20 nsec.. longer is better..
Short,narrow pulses will show unrealistically fast response... Same with overshoot...

Regards,
Sinisa

Thanks, yes indeed. As mentioned above, I separately confirmed the bandwidth and risetime are consistent in time and frequency domains.

Also as mentioned, the pulse generator is an earlier version of this (50 volt version), set to 200 ns width and about 1 MHz rep rate. I've tested it on  much faster scopes (rise time is actually closer to 350 ps  ;^).  My unit happens to have a negative pulse output (dumpster divers can't be choosers!).  In particular, the Avtech has no measurable (physical) overshoot or ringing and a dead flat pulse top; the ringing seen in the first photo above is fabricated by the Rigol.

(By contrast, the small "dip" at 15ns after trigger is physical; it's a transmission line reflection of the impedance mismatch at the BNC x SMA adapter.)

[zike]

Some may call freebie bandwidth a "feature", seeing as how it seems to be a $$ commodity, but in my view "variable" bandwidth is definitely a bug (or more accurately, poor engineering).

That said, I also do not understand how it comes about.

The lower V/div ranges will need amplification in order to drive the ADC to full scale so what you are looking at is the limited bandwidth of the input amplifier.

I believe it works a different way. Look at Dave's video from 2014 and the links he provides below.

The only changeable analog element is the 50:1 input attenuator, which clicks in above 200 mV/div. The ADC chip has an internal "digital gain" from 1 to 50. This is selected by digitizing at >~14 bits and effectively throwing ~6 or so bits away, MSB for small signals and LSB for big. The point is the only analog element that changes between the BNC jack and code is that one 50:1 attenuator. Indeed, on Dave's diagram, everything in the fast signal path is fixed (except those transistor-operated bandwidth switches).

So to reiterate: 1) analog circuit has the same gain on all ranges, but the post-digitizer output somehow gets less responsive when you use the LSB (?); and 2) that 50:1 attenuator (when interposed above 200mV/div) appears to be faster than the straight wire that takes over at 200 mV/div and below (??). 

Oh and 3) those bandwidth-reduction switches  that are clearly doing "something" at low V/div are somehow doing "less of it" at high V/div () 

[simone.pignatti]

hello and Happy New Year, starting today the BND-DS/MSO1000Z is also free in Europe.
It includes:
- SA-DS1000Z (RS232, SPI, I2C serial decoding)
- AT-DS1000Z (advanced triggering)
- REC-DS1000Z (record function)
- MEM-DS1000Z (memory upgrade to 24Mpts)

[g0mgx]

I can confirm this; Telonic were selling this package to anyone who asked during December and officially from January.

Mark
G0MGX

[simone.pignatti]

I'm not sure yet if this promo will be more convenient for the users.
We had a discounted price as Xmas promo which was very well accepted.
This free bundle will definitely help all those who do not want to hack the unit.

[firewalker]

They should add CAN decoding.

Alexander.

[Zermalmer]

Batronix also offer upgrade now also, but i ordered my device on xmas.

Now I asked if they also give it to me or not.

Curious what they will answer.

[ebastler]

Batronix also offer upgrade now also, but i ordered my device on xmas.

Now I asked if they also give it to me or not.

Curious what they will answer.

I am pretty sure they will be able to provide you the upgrade. If they don't, you would simply return your scope after receipt and order a new one from them, right? (Assuming you ordered it as a consumer, not a business.)

[EEVblog]

Perhaps they gave up. Or saw the Siglent coming.

Yep, competition now, and a slightly long in the tooth product with which they have owned the market for a long time with.
It was either that, or a new model. Could still be a new model but I doubt it, it's still very competitive (if not still a bang-per-buck winner) with the options included.

[Zermalmer]

Batronix also offer upgrade now also, but i ordered my device on xmas.

Now I asked if they also give it to me or not.

Curious what they will answer.

I am pretty sure they will be able to provide you the upgrade. If they don't, you would simply return your scope after receipt and order a new one from them, right? (Assuming you ordered it as a consumer, not a business.)

Hi,
no need of returning it... Batronix answered me that they will provide me also the upgrade for free.    
The only thing is that they told me that they will need 7 days to send it to me...   

[Fungus]

it's still very competitive (if not still a bang-per-buck winner) with the options included.

If you buy the base model and unlock it then it's still maybe the bang-per-buck winner. They can be had for $350 now.

PS: Are you going to review the new Siglents? 

[Fungus]

Hi,
no need of returning it... Batronix answered me that they will provide me also the upgrade for free.    
The only thing is that they told me that they will need 7 days to send it to me...   

Just generate the keys yourself... 

[Zermalmer]

Hi,
no need of returning it... Batronix answered me that they will provide me also the upgrade for free.    
The only thing is that they told me that they will need 7 days to send it to me...   

Just generate the keys yourself... 

Already done  but to have it official sounds also ok to me 

[johnbrown]

Looks like to offer has now got to the UK, Telonic say
RIGOL SOFTWARE OPTIONS BND-MSO/DS1000Z (deeper memory, record & replay, advanced trigger functions and serial-bus analysis) are now included for FREE! with the purchase of a new DS1054Z
LINK REMOVED

[simone.pignatti]

Looks like to offer has now got to the UK, Telonic say
RIGOL SOFTWARE OPTIONS BND-MSO/DS1000Z (deeper memory, record & replay, advanced trigger functions and serial-bus analysis) are now included for FREE! with the purchase of a new DS1054Z
http://www.telonic.co.uk/Rigol-DS1054Z-4ch-50MHz-Digital-Oscilloscope-p/ds1054z.htm

you have 6 posts and 6 links to telonic website ... not bad

it is an official Rigol EU promo

[jgalak]

Seems like TEquipment has it now, too.  (no association with them, just noticed while browsing their site)

[simone.pignatti]

Yes. USA started this promo before Xmas

[EEVblog]

Looks like to offer has now got to the UK, Telonic say
RIGOL SOFTWARE OPTIONS BND-MSO/DS1000Z (deeper memory, record & replay, advanced trigger functions and serial-bus analysis) are now included for FREE! with the purchase of a new DS1054Z
LINK REMOVED

"Johnbrown" actually works for Telonic.
Classic astroturfing.

[Simon]

Looks like to offer has now got to the UK, Telonic say
RIGOL SOFTWARE OPTIONS BND-MSO/DS1000Z (deeper memory, record & replay, advanced trigger functions and serial-bus analysis) are now included for FREE! with the purchase of a new DS1054Z
LINK REMOVED

Except that this IS Telonic, what a let down, I thought they were a nice company but seems they get up to the same tricks as the chinese.

[bd139]

Indeed. At least the Chinese don’t stick those bloody awful 3mm thick bubble sticker marketing labels all over their shit 

[EEVblog]

Looks like to offer has now got to the UK, Telonic say
RIGOL SOFTWARE OPTIONS BND-MSO/DS1000Z (deeper memory, record & replay, advanced trigger functions and serial-bus analysis) are now included for FREE! with the purchase of a new DS1054Z
LINK REMOVED

Except that this IS Telonic, what a let down, I thought they were a nice company but seems they get up to the same tricks as the chinese.

Astroturfing is pretty pathetic, and can be quite damaging in a niche market like this.

[Zermalmer]

So it is for sure usefull to remove also the related link from the quoted post of simone.pignatti (3 posts above yours)

[simone.pignatti]

The only thing is that they told me that they will need 7 days to send it to me...   
[/quote]
Rigol has informed the 7 days as standard delivery time for the free bundle
Maybe because of Xmas season.
Let’s see if this will change next week

[Zermalmer]

Ah ook, thanks

[Simon]

Looks like to offer has now got to the UK, Telonic say
RIGOL SOFTWARE OPTIONS BND-MSO/DS1000Z (deeper memory, record & replay, advanced trigger functions and serial-bus analysis) are now included for FREE! with the purchase of a new DS1054Z
LINK REMOVED

Except that this IS Telonic, what a let down, I thought they were a nice company but seems they get up to the same tricks as the chinese.

Astroturfing is pretty pathetic, and can be quite damaging in a niche market like this.

I take it they have your permission to use your video on their website? - at least as a courtesy.

[firewalker]

No explicit permission needed for sharing the video. You give your permission when you allow embedding.

Alexander.

[Simon]

Oh I see. Well I think I'll look elsewhere when I need a scope next time. I never understand why they supply that shitty little meter with a scope, as if you don't have a meter or two already some of which are probably already as shitty.

[bd139]

It's a good stress reliever for when you find another bug in the DG1022Z that came with the free meter:

https://youtu.be/s1eiwcRGb6Q

[firewalker]

Does the hardware of the DS1000Z, allow CAN bus decoding? I "don;t understand" the decision not to include it as an option. The last month I am ambivalent of what to choose. I really like this scope, but I would love CAN bus decoding. I don;t really need it, but I could use it for teaching purposes.

 

Alexander.

[frozenfrogz]

Slightly OT, but still lots of fun!

[ebastler]

I would love CAN bus decoding.

Yes, you said that four days ago. You can't expect Rigol to implement it that quickly.

My guess is they don't want to give you CAN bus decoding -- until they have to, due to competitive pressure, that is. In the meantime Rigol would prefer you to buy one of their more expensive scopes if you need CAN decoding. I can't see why it would be technically impossible to implement on the DS1000Z series; although Rigol's approach of decoding only what is on screen may be limiting for CAN messages?

[simone.pignatti]

I partially agree. When Rigol came with the product line it was well defined:
MSO/DS1000Z
MSO/DS2000A
MSO/DS4000
All models identify a application category.

But yes. Now the market has changed and I hope Rigol will change the game again.

I want to say it is not always easy to give free adds on for a manufacturer.

[Fungus]

Does the hardware of the DS1000Z, allow CAN bus decoding?

Probably.

I "don;t understand" the decision not to include it as an option. The last month I am ambivalent of what to choose. I really like this scope, but I would love CAN bus decoding. I don;t really need it, but I could use it for teaching purposes.

Why not use SPI or I2C decoding instead?

[simone.pignatti]

I fully agree CAN can be useful.
FYI I was told (not from Rigol brand) the oscilloscope manufactures has to pay a fee for every CAN decode they sell (like Bluetooth).
I don’t know if this is true or not....

[firewalker]

Why not use SPI or I2C decoding instead?

Because I teach automotive electronics to car technicians.  It is a standard via OBD-II. At me moment I use a logic analyzer + a scope to for CAN bus essentials.

Alexander.

[Simon]

You can buy CAN to USB adapters and then see the actual data if you don't need to see the actual square waves.

[rsjsouza]

I fully agree CAN can be useful.
FYI I was told (not from Rigol brand) the oscilloscope manufactures has to pay a fee for every CAN decode they sell (like Bluetooth).
I don’t know if this is true or not....

I know that CAN used to have royalties (Bosch), just like I2C (Philips?), I2S (Philips), SPI (Motorola), 1wire (Dallas). Perhaps several of these are expired, but I don't know...

[stj]

i cant see the relevance.
you arent implementing a canbus interface, your just displaying the data already present.

[Simon]

there is often a lot of confusion between "CAN bus" and "the J1939 standard" How CAN bus itself works is well documented and there are free programs for writing files for it so I doubt the hardware layer has licensing problems. You will find problems if you want say J1939 decoding but this is not CAN bus per se it's a protocol layer that sits on the hardware layer used in most vehicles. Where I work for example we tend to have two CAN buses in our ECU, one for the vehicle that talks the J1939 protocol and our own that just uses whatever we want and has nothing to do with J1939. I once bought a book by a muppet that pretended to explain the J1939 standard and I was suspicious when I bought it because J1939 does require a license. and in fact the book did not explain that much about J1939, it actually explained all about the hardware layer (3 times) and then waffed all over the J1939 standard without giving any detail other than a couple of examples. The book went straight back to amazon for the joke it was, there was so much repetition in it's 70 pages that it felt like Mr trump's inauguration speech....

[rsjsouza]

i cant see the relevance.
you arent implementing a canbus interface, your just displaying the data already present.

Well, in order to display the decoded data you need a CAN interpreter to show the logical data present on the wire. If you are only looking at waveforms on the screen, no licensing is needed.

[Simon]

You won't need a licence to interpret the waveform, the can protocol is widely and publicly documented, anyone can sit down and write software to convert the waveform to the identifier and the message contents, what you then do after that may need a licence

[rsjsouza]

there is often a lot of confusion between "CAN bus" and "the J1939 standard" How CAN bus itself works is well documented and there are free programs for writing files for it so I doubt the hardware layer has licensing problems. You will find problems if you want say J1939 decoding but this is not CAN bus per se it's a protocol layer that sits on the hardware layer used in most vehicles. Where I work for example we tend to have two CAN buses in our ECU, one for the vehicle that talks the J1939 protocol and our own that just uses whatever we want and has nothing to do with J1939. I once bought a book by a muppet that pretended to explain the J1939 standard and I was suspicious when I bought it because J1939 does require a license. and in fact the book did not explain that much about J1939, it actually explained all about the hardware layer (3 times) and then waffed all over the J1939 standard without giving any detail other than a couple of examples. The book went straight back to amazon for the joke it was, there was so much repetition in it's 70 pages that it felt like Mr trump's inauguration speech....

Thanks for the explanation, Simon. I should have prefaced my post with the fact that the last time I thoroughly looked into it was in the last millenium (1998).

[frozenfrogz]

SCNR

[Zermalmer]

 

[Zermalmer]

Totally forgot to report, that I got my certificate which allows me to create related licence key.
So everything went well... certificate and licence will be moved to the folder with related documents