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Author Topic: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise  (Read 9183 times)

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Offline Datman

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Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« on: April 10, 2015, 06:42:30 PM »
Hi
I'd like to talk here about the noise from the fan. The problem have been debated in a long topic, but I'd like to put together here all experiences about it.

Two days ago I had to work using the scope. It was after dinner. I was listening to the radio. When I turned on the scope I have been very hurted by the fan noise... :-(
I noticed the noise before, but I thought I could bear it. Instead, in the silence of the night it is too loud!

What are your experiences? Do you already reaplaced it and now it is quieter? It seems to be a 5cm fan, with 4cm between the screws. Is it a 12V fan?
This evening I'll go to an electronics shop near home. I'll ask there for it. Do you thimk a computer shop would be a better place?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 07:21:41 PM by Datman »
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2015, 07:10:02 PM »
A couple of potential replacement fans have been suggested here: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds1054z-oscilloscope/150/

I did buy the recommended Gelid Silent 5, but found that -- while it was indeed much quieter than the factory-installed fan -- it pushed significantly less air. I did not dare to leave it installed without measuring the temperatures of a few key components before and after; and was too lazy to do these measurements. Hence, I went back to the factory fan.

Most of the noise seems to come from the actual airstream, not the fan bearings. Hence the "silent" fans will probably all imply a compromise in air flow. You might as well install a dropping diode or resistor in the supply cable for the factory fan, if you want to accept the potential risk of reduced air flow and higher internal temperature. Installing a much larger and slower-spinning fan would be the best solution, but I don't see how it could be fitted in.
 

Offline Datman

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2015, 07:29:23 PM »
Yes, I also think that mostly of the noise comes from air flowing. I should remove the fan and listen to his noise in the free air.
I could install a bigger fan keeping it a few centimeters far from the grille. Being bigger, a little short circuit for the air should not be an issue. It is not very hot inside the case, but air flowing is important for cooling electronics on the board, removing heath from them.
 

Offline Guni

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2015, 08:41:42 PM »
Just notice about fan replacement.
I don't know how is on DS1000Z but on other Rigol devices lkie DP832, you have to check power consumption of the new fun. It should be the same as original. There is current monitoring to determinate fun speed/condition. If the current is too low device cannot turn on. Maybe it's only on power supply but don't be badly surprised.   

 
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Offline Galenbo

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2015, 11:19:04 PM »
2 years ago, I put a resistor in series with the fan on my DS1204B.

With a potentiometer I discovered the minumum startup value, then put a fixed resistor.
Flow is less now, I monitored the ambient temperature inside the scope, stays the same.

Nearly impossible to hear now, don't know if measurments are influenced. Everything works fine.
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 

Offline kwass

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2015, 01:25:10 AM »
I replaced the fan in my DS1054Z months ago with this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835352002&nm_mc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel&cm_mmc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel-_-Content-_-text-_-

It's much quieter. Yes, it moves less air but it still more than enough to keep the scope on all the time without overheating assuming that you're in a room temperature environment with plenty of space around the scope.

-katie
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2015, 01:56:09 AM »
I could install a bigger fan keeping it a few centimeters far from the grille. Being bigger, a little short circuit for the air should not be an issue. It is not very hot inside the case, but air flowing is important for cooling electronics on the board, removing heath from them.

I don't think that will help much. The two grilles (in the sheet metal and the plastic cover, if I remember correctly -- don't have the scope in front of me now) will continue to constrict the airflow. They will continue to create noise, and will probably cause a significant part of the fan's air flow to go into the "short circuit". Taking a saw to the grilles would probably be quite effective, but I don't think I would like the cosmetic result... ;-) 

If I should get really annoyed with the fan noise of my DS1054Z at some point, I would probably just put a resistor in series with the existing fan, and measure the temperature inside the case before and after.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 01:58:46 AM by ebastler »
 

Offline soren

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2015, 03:28:38 AM »
If I should get really annoyed with the fan noise of my DS1054Z at some point, I would probably just put a resistor in series with the existing fan, and measure the temperature inside the case before and after.

The stock Sunon fan, even at its impressively low starting voltage of 4V, has a somewhat annoying whine in free air without any obstructions.

I replaced it with a slower Sunon fan (http://www.reichelt.de/index.html?ARTICLE=110413) which doesn't have that whine, but when installed in the DS1Z it isn't quite silent due to the case turbulence. I will probably open it back up and add a series resistor.

So to have this scope be silent, I think you will need both a replacement fan and to slow down that replacement fan.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2015, 06:09:36 AM »
I just received my 1054z a couple days ago, from the new shipment to TEquipment, and have been running it continuously since then doing various tests and evals. The fan is not nearly as noisy as I expected from reading the reviews! It's the least noisy fan that is running in my room! I've got an airconditioner, a computer, an electrostatic dust precipitator all going pretty much 24-7 and I sure can't hear the scope's fan over all that!

I even bought a Fractal Design FD-FAN-SSR2-50 fan based on the posts in the forum, but I see no need to change fans at this point! (The FD fan is nearly silent, though, when tested in open air, and seems to have good reviews and support from the company.)

Also the probes aren't nearly as bad as I expected them to be. Maybe the quality control has improved....

BUT::: I think I found a minor software error. I'm starting another thread to discuss this matter, please check it out.

FW  00.04.02.SP4
Board 0.1.1
unlocked without difficulty using code from downloaded keygen Linux command-line application from the Riglol zipfile, compiled for my system
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Datman

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2015, 02:36:53 AM »
I think the simplest and best solution is deflecting noise away, to the rear...
 

Offline kaskade911

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Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2016, 02:51:16 AM »
Dear all,

I'm as well an owner of the DS1054Z who is annoyed about the fan noise. |O.

After reading several posts, I decided to open my still "virgin" scope to look for a more quiet solution.
All solutions with other fan types are resulting in less air flow and maybe a little bit less noise - I did this as well with an NB XS1 fan.

But this was not what I expected :rant:.

So I took the long way...
First I measured the audio spectrum (!) in a few assembly states (with the rear sheet metal power supply frame solely, with both metal frames and fully assembled including the rear plastic cover).
These results were quite revealing!
They show that the metal frames are not involved in the "sound" of the scope, but the rear plastic cover, including the grille makes the difference. ::)
The peaks in the spectrum are at approx. 250...400 Hz.
By knocking on the plastic housing I found that this its resonance frequency ;D.
Calculating the fan noise (approx. 3300 rpm @ 8 volts and 7 wings) gives as well 390 Hz. So the fan noise an the housing are in resonance!
With this it is clear that the fan speed must change.

I bought a 60 mm fan (SUNON HA60151V4-000U-999, 2500 rpm @ 12 volt = 1700 rpm @ 8 volts )and tried to bring it into the housing. With some small modifications  to the fan - not to the housing ;) - (space for the rivet and the chamfered edge on the rear) it fits to the metal frame.
In the first stage (as long as there is the warranty) I fixed the fan with double sided tape pads on each corner.

The result is impressive:
Very quiet and still a remarkable airflow :-+

Have fun
kaskade911


 
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 03:42:17 AM by kaskade911 »
 
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Offline kaskade911

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2016, 03:39:10 AM »
Here are the audio spectrum screenshots with stock equipped fan and the new 60 mm SUNON fan.

 
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Offline Karel

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2016, 03:56:48 AM »
The result is impressive:
Very quiet and still a remarkable airflow :-+

How did you measure the airflow??

The only way to be sure you don't risk your scope is to make thermal images from the pcb with the old fan and
the new fan.
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 

Offline kaskade911

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2016, 04:48:22 AM »
Hi Karel,

you are quite right, but unfortunately there is not app for airflow measurements available ;)

But both fans have nearly similar airflow figures in the data sheet.
Both are driven by the same (reduced) voltage of 8 volts.

So IMHO I supposed that the airflow is similar for both fans (and I know that the cut out in the  sheet metal is designed for a 50 mm fan and not for 60 mm).

And there is still the opportunity to go up with the fan voltages to 12 volts by updating the PSU (short cut the 49.9 ohms resistor at the +FAN output)

All this solutions are better than further lowering the voltage of the stock fan by adding an additional resistor to get rid of the horrible noise.

Or do you have a better solution to lower the noise? 8)

And at the end of the day we talk about a non safety related piece of hardware with cost approx. 350 €...

Have fun
kaskade911
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 04:51:00 AM by kaskade911 »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2016, 05:27:22 AM »
What you need to look for when replacing a fan are airflow AND pressure. If the airflow and pressure of the replacement fan are equal or higher then the replacement shouldn't make a difference when it comes to providing enough airflow. Rubber fan mounts can also make a huge difference if the noise is coupled into to casing and sometimes these can already provide enough difference to go from annoying to quiet.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Branqazwsx

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2017, 02:40:56 PM »
I just changed the fan in my 1054Z. I used the Gelid Silent 5. The install was simple, and I fit a 2-pin JST connector to the new fan cable. I couldn't be happier.
 
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Offline Ducttape

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2017, 03:11:00 AM »
Here's a post of mine from a few months ago on this topic with a video showing some very crude (but still better than nothing) measurements.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-fan-replacement/msg1036879/#msg1036879

I ended up putting the Sunon back in since, as George H.W. Bush would have put it, it 'wouldn't be prudent' to just arbitrarily decide to reduce the design-intent cooling on a complex piece of electronic gear.
 

Offline CCB

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2017, 06:35:43 PM »
I just changed the fan in my 1054Z. I used the Gelid Silent 5. The install was simple, and I fit a 2-pin JST connector to the new fan cable. I couldn't be happier.

Just changed mine the same fan + connector. Much better.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2017, 07:15:44 PM »
My DS1054Z has just gone out of warranty so I've been thinking of doing this mod.

I just looked up the specs of the Gelid and Sunon fans. Overall the specs are very similar. The airflow is identical, the Rigol's Sunon has 25% more pressure.




You could compensate the pressure drop by removing a couple of bars from the grille on the case.  :popcorn:

« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 07:38:12 PM by Fungus »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2017, 07:20:58 PM »
For comparison: The Fractal Designs fan that some people have been using. The Specs are much worse:


« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 07:25:56 PM by Fungus »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2017, 07:22:48 PM »
I just changed the fan in my 1054Z. I used the Gelid Silent 5. The install was simple, and I fit a 2-pin JST connector to the new fan cable. I couldn't be happier.
Just changed mine the same fan + connector. Much better.

How happy on a scale of 1 to 10?  :popcorn:

« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 07:24:54 PM by Fungus »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2017, 12:24:37 AM »
Ok, I but the bullet and ordered a Gelid fan.

(I might look for a rotary encoder as well. Might as well look at that while I'm inside there).
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2017, 11:20:38 AM »
Some people have changed the Multifunction encoder for one that has detents. I'd like to know how these detented encoders work with functions that require fine tuning, like Cursor positioning, trigger holdoff settings, the little pop-up keyboard for naming files, etc.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2017, 12:10:53 PM »
When I put a Radio Shack Sound Level Meter using fast C weighting about 2-3cm from the center of the display on a Rigol 1000 Series I get a 53dB reading.  I get the same 53dB reading on a Rigol 2000 series.  fwiw, on a Siglent SDG2042X at the same distance from the center of it's display I get a reading of about 50-51dB.  Quieter fans would be even nicer but none of these readings are an issue, IMO.
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z DS1000Z FAN noise
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2017, 02:33:47 PM »
Some people have changed the Multifunction encoder for one that has detents. I'd like to know how these detented encoders work with functions that require fine tuning, like Cursor positioning, trigger holdoff settings, the little pop-up keyboard for naming files, etc.

For me, the detented encoder mod works like a charm, also when entering continuously tunable parameters. The detents are pronounced enough to make the discrete selections much easier; but not too strong, so they don't get in the way when setting "analog" parameters (including those where you have to turn the selection knob multiple times). And, of course, they do not prevent you from hitting the right "fine tuning" target, since there is exactly one detent click per encoder step.
 


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