Author Topic: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?  (Read 3895 times)

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Offline xardomain

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Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« on: November 26, 2017, 11:47:03 am »
Going to purchase my first DSO, wondered if MSO1074Z is still hackable today or not (using JTAG/Olimex).

I would go with 1054Z if not, hopefully this one is still hackable (without JTAG).

Could anybody please confirm if it is possible, using which firmware and if I would be able to get 100MHz bandwidth too?

Serial Decodes are more important to me, but of course more bandwidth is always welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Xardomain

 

Offline Old Printer

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2017, 01:56:07 pm »
Not sure about your country, but at the moment there is a factory authorized sale going on. Rigol is including the software upgrades at no cost. The price has been reduced as well, $349 US dollars and most major dealers offer an EEVblog discount as well. Worth investigating. Dave
 

Offline xardomain

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2017, 06:35:38 pm »
Thanks Dave,
now *THIS* could be the ultimate hack!


AFAIK there is not such a thing as a factory authorized sale in EU at the moment, if anybody knows about it, please tell me.
Buying from US is completely out of question, taxes and shipping costs you know the story.

Xardomain
 

Offline Avacee

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2017, 08:42:27 pm »
One of the Rigol UK sellers has an offer that's a 10% discount and decodes.
Edit: And then you hack it :)

It may be worth contacting Rigol Italy to see if it is official or if they'll match that deal.

UK Seller:  https://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/default.asp
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 09:07:40 pm by Avacee »
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2017, 08:58:43 pm »
Not sure about your country, but at the moment there is a factory authorized sale going on. Rigol is including the software upgrades at no cost.

Sure, but the best part of the hack is the bandwidth upgrade.   :)


PS: Yes, it still works.
 

Offline xardomain

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2017, 09:40:13 pm »
Thanks all for the answers,
good to know they are still hackable.

Acee, I see that Rigol UK does offer free sw upgrades but only for schools, I use it for my hobby (breaking things!), so don't think I am eligible. My lowest price for a DS1054Z is today 378EUR shipped and for the MSO1074Z is 838EUR shipped.

I am on a budget, and really need the decodes so either DS1054Z hacked and stick to four digital analog (and stick to four digital too, sigh) or the MSO1074Z only if it is hackable at least for the serial decodes, so it will expand to 16 (or even 16+4 as LA?, don't know).


Fungus, I appreciate the bw boost of course, heheh.

BTW, does it make sense to buy MSO1104Z and hack, I mean is it really the same machine as the 70MHz one, and/or it is not and it could be pulled up to 200MHz(too good to be true)?

Do I have to hack before the trial expires or could I do anytime?

Thanks guys, as you imagine I am writing a letter to Santa...

Xardomain
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2017, 10:14:52 pm »
BTW, does it make sense to buy MSO1104Z and hack, , I mean is it really the same machine as the 70MHz one

It's exactly the same, really.

nb. The MSO isn't brilliant. I'd go with the DS1054Z and one of those $6 USB logic analyzers off eBay+a copy of Sigrok before paying for the MSO option.

(unless you need higher speed logic and/or to see the digital channels aligned with the analog, in which case go for a Saleae)
 

Offline xardomain

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2017, 11:55:54 pm »
Thanks for the suggestion.

Cheap stuff does not go over 8 bits and sometimes 24MHz is not that good for what I may need. Nothing fancy, and most of the "serious" stuff I am able to do in testbenches and simulations (great stuff it changed my perspection on the whole field) but sometimes you need several signals at decent speed in the real world.
Another issue is that I am not sure about the timing precision of these low cost LA.

I am somewhat beginner (self taught) in FPGA and I have a sump LA (with the original Digilent board with SRAM) that could be heavly customized, if I were fond of Jawa, that I am not, I could completely build the client to suit my needs (adding custom decoders for example).

Years ago I even started an alternative front end for it written in Lazarus.

SUMP has 32bit@100MHz or 16bit@200MHz but I liked the idea to have a all in one instrument already polished. Mixed display is handy too to validate electrically there is no bigger problem than what happens at logic level stuff.

I don't expect TLA performance of course, LOL

I will take a peek at MSO manuals and videos, for example I would be interested if nested serial triggers are possible.

One advantage is that MSO1074Z should have more memory than SUMP (I hope), still it is correct that DS1054Z has a very reasonable price that could save some euros for another LA if needed(about 450EUR difference).

Time for some interesting readings, then I will decide and eventually buy the Olimex if needed.

Thanks for all your help.

Dear Santa...


Xardomain
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2017, 12:04:44 am »
Thanks for the suggestion.

Cheap stuff does not go over 8 bits and sometimes 24MHz is not that good for what I may need.

Right, hence the suggestion for a Saleae. They go a lot higher and you can overlay analog signals for reference.

One advantage is that MSO1074Z should have more memory than SUMP

Still nowhere near as much as a desktop PC.

Also: Navigating and typing search strings is an awful lot easier with a mouse/keyboard than with rotary encoders.
 

Offline xardomain

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2017, 12:23:03 am »
>Still nowhere near as much as a desktop PC.
Always wondered how good is this arrangement, for high speed capture (like say 100Mbps).

I mean you do have a lot of memory in the PC but only if the transfer between the LA and the PC is able to sustain high data rate.
Is it good enough for 16bit@100MHz?

Xardomain
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2017, 12:32:02 am »
>Still nowhere near as much as a desktop PC.
Always wondered how good is this arrangement, for high speed capture (like say 100Mbps).

I mean you do have a lot of memory in the PC but only if the transfer between the LA and the PC is able to sustain high data rate.

USB3 maxes out at 625 MB/s

(and Saleae require USB3 for their faster devices)
 

Offline Janus

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2017, 07:02:17 am »
Confirmed upgradeable.  Don't need JTAG (software keys only).

Also would agree with comment about don't go for the MSO option (with the cost uplift you could by a decent salae logic).  I purchased a cheap version and use with sigrok/pulseview under linux.
Reverse the polarity, it'll be fine!
 

Offline xardomain

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2017, 08:44:40 am »
Ok,
ordered the DS1054z, thank you all. Coming tomorrow or on Friday hopefully.

I saw a video and discovered no compression on MSO1074 and only timing analysis, no state analysis. Eek!!!



Still not sure about Saleae.
Does it have timing and state analysis?
Does it trigger on serial data?
Time to pull out my old sump.org LA to refresh my skills...

Xardomain

Ps: does ds1054z have a front cover? How to protect it? Bag is pricey and only serves to transport it I guess.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2017, 09:01:44 am »
Ok,
ordered the DS1054z, thank you all. Coming tomorrow or on Friday hopefully.

I saw a video and discovered no compression on MSO1074 and only timing analysis, no state analysis. Eek!!!
An MSO is not a logic analyser! With an oscilloscope you typically look at signals and see them change in real-time and sometimes that helps with digital problems. With a logic analyser you typically capture data and then analyse them. With an MSO you can cover around 95% of what you can do with a logic analyser so it is a useful option. However if you need very complex triggers then you will need a decent logic analyser because an MSO won't provide that.
With the deep memory found on a typical MSO you don't need compression at all. There is enough memory to capture a decent amount of data with great detail.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline xardomain

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2017, 02:03:36 am »
I don't have that great needs, but I would like something better, for comparison I have a Digilent board on which runs sump.org LA, I would need something better else I will stay on my current LA. Currently I am looking at DSlogic, it seems it has better triggers than Saleae for what I need, and it is cheaper. I know they are different, price and all.


Now, I have another quirk, maybe it is just me, but taking advantage of the ability to take measures on the DSO I tried to "see" the 10MHz output on my Trimble and it says:

https://iw2jww.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/ds1z_quickprint2.jpg

 Why is minimum voltage slightly negative (-.08V)?

Is it me using the wrong method to measure it (no terminal load,...)?

I would like to add a good 10MHz reference to my HackRf but I am hesitant to feed it with the signal coming from the GPSDO.

Xardomain


 

Offline xardomain

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z or MSO1074Z - both hackable as per 26Nov2017?
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2017, 03:00:27 am »
Solved, just because of the probe I guess.
 


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