Author Topic: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*  (Read 89592 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline alsetalokin4017

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2055
  • Country: us
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2015, 03:34:14 am »
Nice to know that the knob can easily be replaced if the original one breaks.

Since I seem to have sensitive fingers ("Safe Cracker Mode") I don't find the stock setup particularly hard to use.
But "not particularly hard" isn't the same as "easy". I bet you still occasionally manage to turn the knob 0.1 degrees when you're pushing it, giving a bad selection.

The whole thing has a ridiculously easy software fix IMHO - just allow people to press the grey menu button to accept a menu choice after you turn the knob.

(And bonus points for letting us move up/down inside a menu using the blue up/down arrow buttons).

Let's see...  waste a couple of seconds by not being careful when pushing the knob and having to re-select the correct item.... vs. voiding the manufacturer's warranty, spending _at least_ an hour taking apart, removing and replacing the encoder and reassembling the scope _if_ you are really skillful, and a lot more if you aren't ....  You guys crack me up!!


How much time do you "pro-modders" actually have, using your 1054z scopes, I wonder?  I've used mine for at least several hours every day since it was delivered back in April. I've gotten pretty good at selecting the item I actually want, with the little knob and the detent-less stock encoder. Practice makes perfect!

If you want to "make it yours", then put a Hello Kitty sticker on it !!

If it ain't broke, fix it until it IS broke !!




The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Penguin36Topic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 46
  • Country: 00
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2015, 06:19:54 am »
Come on, its a thread about modding a knob  :palm:

It you like it, do it. It not, use the knob as it is!
I prefer a Batman sticker  :-DD

BTT, the partnumber I used is Alps STEC12E08.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 06:36:25 am by Penguin36 »
 

Offline pickle9000

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2438
  • Country: ca
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2015, 06:46:44 am »
Knob size is critical for the relationship with your scope.
 

Offline Howardlong

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5315
  • Country: gb
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2015, 10:06:14 am »

Let's see...  waste a couple of seconds by not being careful when pushing the knob and having to re-select the correct item.... vs. voiding the manufacturer's warranty, spending _at least_ an hour taking apart, removing and replacing the encoder and reassembling the scope _if_ you are really skillful, and a lot more if you aren't ....  You guys crack me up!!

How much time do you "pro-modders" actually have, using your 1054z scopes, I wonder?  I've used mine for at least several hours every day since it was delivered back in April. I've gotten pretty good at selecting the item I actually want, with the little knob and the detent-less stock encoder. Practice makes perfect!

If you want to "make it yours", then put a Hello Kitty sticker on it !!

If it ain't broke, fix it until it IS broke !!

Personally speaking I find it quite an irritation, it's something to get in the way of my workflow.

The warranty sticker was liberated the first day I received this scope!

Yes, I do like modding stuff, but equally I respect your wish not to void your warranty, and your ability at being able to nail the knob with your safe cracking skills, it's something I've been unable to do consistently I'm afraid. So for me, it was broke enough for me to want to fix it.

I'm supposedly semi-retired, so yes, I guess you could say I have plenty of time, but it doesn't feel like it!

Live and let live I guess.
 

Offline John Coloccia

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1208
  • Country: us
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2015, 11:19:52 am »
Nice to know that the knob can easily be replaced if the original one breaks.

Since I seem to have sensitive fingers ("Safe Cracker Mode") I don't find the stock setup particularly hard to use.
But "not particularly hard" isn't the same as "easy". I bet you still occasionally manage to turn the knob 0.1 degrees when you're pushing it, giving a bad selection.

The whole thing has a ridiculously easy software fix IMHO - just allow people to press the grey menu button to accept a menu choice after you turn the knob.

(And bonus points for letting us move up/down inside a menu using the blue up/down arrow buttons).

Let's see...  waste a couple of seconds by not being careful when pushing the knob and having to re-select the correct item.... vs. voiding the manufacturer's warranty, spending _at least_ an hour taking apart, removing and replacing the encoder and reassembling the scope _if_ you are really skillful, and a lot more if you aren't ....  You guys crack me up!!


How much time do you "pro-modders" actually have, using your 1054z scopes, I wonder?  I've used mine for at least several hours every day since it was delivered back in April. I've gotten pretty good at selecting the item I actually want, with the little knob and the detent-less stock encoder. Practice makes perfect!

If you want to "make it yours", then put a Hello Kitty sticker on it !!

If it ain't broke, fix it until it IS broke !!

Boo hoo, he voided he warranty. You seem to be obsessed with this particular scope, to the point that you're taking it personally that he's modifying it.  You should try to relax a little.  Most of us aren't going to worry about a warranty on a crappy, sub $400 scope.  It's practically disposable.
 

Offline Penguin36Topic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 46
  • Country: 00
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2015, 11:59:36 am »
Shame on me, I changed the fan of the scope too. For ME the stock fan is way to loud. I changed it with a Fractal Design FD-FAN-SSR2-50 R2. It blows less air, but my scope didn't get warmer the last 10 hours than before. I can still hear the fan, but its much quieter now  :)
 

Offline soren

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 56
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2015, 12:33:14 am »
I just replaced the menu encoder in my DS1054Z with this Alps part, which I suspect is the same that others used:

http://www.reichelt.de/index.html?ARTICLE=73923

The base is slightly taller than the factory part, which doesn't cause problems except that the knob extends a bit further. Since it's plastic the shaft could easily be trimmed if desired.

Even though the shaft is the same nominal size as the original (metal) shafts, the knob doesn't grip it properly. I added a tiny amount of blu-tack and that solved the problem.

It gives 24 pulses per revolution rather than the 20 of the original, but that doesn't make it feel "too fast" at all. Also, the detents are firmer than the stock encoders with detents.

I'd still like to know if someone has seen a seller of the knobs in case one is needed.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 12:43:16 am by soren »
 

Offline Gary.M

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 137
  • Country: nz
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2015, 02:47:44 am »
That ALPs part looks to be EC12E2424407 . Google returns quite a few suppliers.

 

Offline Howardlong

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5315
  • Country: gb
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2015, 07:26:10 am »
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2055
  • Country: us
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2015, 09:16:47 am »
Nice to know that the knob can easily be replaced if the original one breaks.

Since I seem to have sensitive fingers ("Safe Cracker Mode") I don't find the stock setup particularly hard to use.
But "not particularly hard" isn't the same as "easy". I bet you still occasionally manage to turn the knob 0.1 degrees when you're pushing it, giving a bad selection.

The whole thing has a ridiculously easy software fix IMHO - just allow people to press the grey menu button to accept a menu choice after you turn the knob.

(And bonus points for letting us move up/down inside a menu using the blue up/down arrow buttons).

Let's see...  waste a couple of seconds by not being careful when pushing the knob and having to re-select the correct item.... vs. voiding the manufacturer's warranty, spending _at least_ an hour taking apart, removing and replacing the encoder and reassembling the scope _if_ you are really skillful, and a lot more if you aren't ....  You guys crack me up!!


How much time do you "pro-modders" actually have, using your 1054z scopes, I wonder?  I've used mine for at least several hours every day since it was delivered back in April. I've gotten pretty good at selecting the item I actually want, with the little knob and the detent-less stock encoder. Practice makes perfect!

If you want to "make it yours", then put a Hello Kitty sticker on it !!

If it ain't broke, fix it until it IS broke !!

Boo hoo, he voided he warranty. You seem to be obsessed with this particular scope, to the point that you're taking it personally that he's modifying it.  You should try to relax a little.  Most of us aren't going to worry about a warranty on a crappy, sub $400 scope.  It's practically disposable.

Let me address your points one at a time.

First, he voided the warranty. When I received my _first_ DS1054z, after several days of operation I found that the scope developed a bad glitch in one channel, and I had to return it for a warranty replacement.  Had I done something like changing out an encoder or replacing the fan, I might have been "sol" as they say. I even bought a quiet fan, and had it all ready to install based on the reports from sensitive users on this forum... imagine my surprise when I found out that the scope is actually quieter than my computer, my power supply, and my airconditioner. I'm glad I didn't replace the fan before the first scope started glitching and had to be returned.

Second, I am not "obsessed" enough to want to change an encoder simply because I can't control my fingers well enough to select the item I want to select! I use the scope daily and you can look at the screenshot I attached below to see just how I do use it. I have also used it enough to uncover several severe bugs, which I have reported to Rigol. Obsessed? No, just a real _user_ of the scope, who wants it to work properly and who would like to be able to return it under warranty if it does not. And I certainly don't "take it personally"... I think it's hilarious, that's all. I do rather take the accusation of being "obsessed" personally though.

Third, "most of us" apparently can afford simply to write off 400 dollars.... well, fine, but I can't. One wonders why these wealthy people have bought this "crappy sub $400" scope to begin with, if they are in such a great financial position that they can risk buying a "crappy, practically disposable" oscilloscope in the first place. Why didn't they buy a "real" scope from Agilent or LeCroy, if the money means that little to them?

Hey, it's your scope, modify it if you want. I just think it's pretty silly to spend an hour of your valuable time, plus the cost of the encoder, to change something on your crappy, practically disposable, under $400 scope to begin with, when the fault that is being "fixed" isn't in the scope, but rather is in the user.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline TMM

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 471
  • Country: au
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2015, 12:49:55 pm »
I just think it's pretty silly to spend an hour of your valuable time, plus the cost of the encoder, to change something on your crappy, practically disposable, under $400 scope to begin with, when the fault that is being "fixed" isn't in the scope, but rather is in the user.
Rubbish. I've owned a DS1054Z since release and the rotary encoder STILL catches me out at least once every time I use it. It's not a PEBKAC, it's a design flaw. Rotary encoders without detents just shouldn't be used for menus if the shaft push button is being used for selecting the current item. It's made worse by the menu lag so you tend to 'fly around' until you land on the correct item and then you have no idea if you are right on the edge of a position and some tiny amount of additional rotation is going to make it skip to the next menu item while you press the shaft button in. Sure you can increase you chances of mis-selecting items by rotating it as slow as a snail so you have some idea that you are in the center of a position while you press the button, or be super careful not to rotate the knob while you press it in but either method is more frustrating than if it just had detents in the first place. Adding detents solves all problems entirely.

The fact that I have probably wasted all of 3 minutes of my life so far accidentally selecting the wrong thing doesn't mean that it hasn't already cost me 1hr+ in reduced productivity from frustration. Therefore, it is worth spending an hour and a few dollars doing the mod if I plan to keep the scope for another few years. I'm pretty confident that my unit isn't going to die in the arse tomorrow since it has been going well so far, so voiding the warranty is a risk that I and others would be prepared to take at this stage.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 01:02:16 pm by TMM »
 

Online ebastler

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6202
  • Country: de
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2015, 03:26:33 pm »
I think Rigol could easily fix the biggest encoder-related annoyance (wrong selection because the knob is inadvertently turned while pressing it) in software: Just ignore any encoder changes that occur within xx milliseconds before the button is pressed.

But I still like the idea of an encoder with detents, which gives you direct haptic feedback: One detent click equals one step in the menu. I guess I will give the modification a try at some time. Question to those who have already implemented the mod: Do the detents get distracting when you have to spin the knob many times, for the analog parameter selections?
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16560
  • Country: 00
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2015, 03:39:24 pm »
I think Rigol could easily fix the biggest encoder-related annoyance (wrong selection because the knob is inadvertently turned while pressing it) in software: Just ignore any encoder changes that occur within xx milliseconds before the button is pressed.
Even better: Make it so you can press the menu button to make a selection as well as the encoder.

ie. Push 'menu', twiddle knob, push 'menu' again.
 

Offline 5ky

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 186
  • Country: us
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2015, 03:46:35 pm »
I need to do something like this to my DP832A.  It's like the steps on the encoder are about 1/3 of a step out of phase with the detents and makes it impossible to move voltage or current up/down one notch at a time because every 3rd or 4th turn it skips a digit.  Really infuriating.  |O
 

Offline Howardlong

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5315
  • Country: gb
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2015, 03:50:01 pm »
Why didn't they buy a "real" scope from Agilent

Many have done. I know I did. But I also wanted a scope for field work, and for that the Rigol fits the bill in terms of portability, features and disposability.

Quote
I just think it's pretty silly to spend an hour of your valuable time, plus the cost of the encoder, to change something on your crappy, practically disposable, under $400 scope to begin with, when the fault that is being "fixed" isn't in the scope, but rather is in the user.

And yet you were prepared to spend money on a replacement fan, and a similar amount of time doing the replacement?

Quote
Hey, it's your scope, modify it if you want.

Exactly, could not agree more! Relax!  O0
 

Offline JohnPen

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 240
  • Country: gb
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2015, 06:07:31 pm »
Surely the wise thing to do is after a few months of fairly intensive use and you feel confident then pick up the soldering iron and do modifications.  If after those original few months of use you no longer feel it necessary don't do any modifications.  My view of this modification is that I will consider it for the future as I do agree the delivered encoder could be improved upon.  This mod does provide a useful way of avoiding a slightly annoying finger trouble for those of us with larger fingers!  With regard to the fan mod, as it was mentioned, just holding your hand to the left side of the scope creates a large drop in noise level if you deflect the airflow to the rear so one could improve things without opening the case.  Not necessarily a pretty solution though!

Regarding the throw away 'Crap scope'  obviously some have money to burn I do not.  This scope provides so much for the price range and is not really intended for high level professional use.  If you have a burning need for more precision then you pay the price but look at what you can do with this scope and be happy.

John
 

Offline John Coloccia

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1208
  • Country: us
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2015, 10:57:16 pm »
Regarding the throw away 'Crap scope'  obviously some have money to burn I do not.  This scope provides so much for the price range and is not really intended for high level professional use.  If you have a burning need for more precision then you pay the price but look at what you can do with this scope and be happy.

John

I own one of these too.  I have twin 16 months old girls.  Believe me, I don't have money to burn.  It fits what I need at a great price. I'm going to stand by my statement though...it's kind of a crappy scope. If I was back in a real lab, I probably would have flung it across the room on day one out of frustration...much of it centered around how alternately touchy and sluggish the knobs are.  They did a TERRIBLE job on that interaction. I can't imagine they can't fix most of this in the firmware. Doesn't anyone over at Rigol know how to do proper velocity/acceleration control interactions? It's really stupid that they behave like this.  Sometimes it takes dozens of turns to get to where I'm going, and other times I breathe heavy and the pointer moves. Come on.

But for less than $400, it's an amazing steal, especially considering the display which is VERY good IMHO, and for occasional/hobbyist/light/whatever use, there's just nothing else like it anywhere near this price range...but I'm not going to worry about some stupid warranty on it, especially if it makes working with it easier.
 

Online Bud

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6877
  • Country: ca
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2015, 11:08:13 pm »
They did a TERRIBLE job on that interaction. I can't imagine they can't fix most of this in the firmware. Doesn't anyone over at Rigol know how to do proper velocity/acceleration control interactions? It's really stupid that they behave like this. 

Encoder velocity control is just a few lines of code in a home PIC/AVR based project. So no, they do not know. And yes, they are stupid.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline SimonD

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Country: 00
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2015, 07:37:19 am »
Hi Bud,
because i' m very interested about this application (encoder velocity) and appears to have dealt with it,
is it easy to give an example for PIC ? (or the idea behind that ?)
Thanks in advance
Simon
 

Offline 5ky

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 186
  • Country: us
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2015, 03:06:26 am »
I was going to suggest putting an AVR between the encoder and their PCB to add acceleration yourself, but that still doesn't guarantee that their code is polling the encoder fast enough for that to work.  |O
 

Offline michaeliv

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 260
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2015, 05:33:14 am »
I replaced my encoder with this one : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-3Pcs-6mm-D-Shaft-18-Position-360-Degree-Rotary-Encoder-w-Push-Button/32338458200.html

It's working fine in menus ( selecting triggering source for example ), but works in reverse when modifying values (increasing intensity, I2C trigger address, etc) - as in if I rotate it forward it actually decrements the value. Also, it's quite a bit taller than the original one.
Does anyone have a link where a matching rotary encoder can be purchased from ( deliverable to US ).

BTW how are people desoldering the rotary encoder ? For me it was a HUGE hassle & I ended up damaging the rotary encoder because I had trouble desoldering it.

Tip: Before installing the rotary encoder, I disassembled it and desensitized the clicking membrane to actuate around 180 grams-force instead of the default ~680 grams-force - this made a huge improvement in usability.
 

Offline michaeliv

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 260
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2015, 07:56:49 am »
I also did a fan mod while I had the scope open. I put a 165R resistor in series with it & attached it to the case using double sided tape( as opposed to screws ). The double sided tape makes a huge difference when it comes to noise. The scope is almost completely silent now even with nothing else running.
After a few hours of runtime the scope seems 5c-10c hotter. Should I be worried? Could this cause any issues / shorter lifespan ?
 

Offline John Coloccia

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1208
  • Country: us
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2015, 10:49:32 am »
I also did a fan mod while I had the scope open. I put a 165R resistor in series with it & attached it to the case using double sided tape( as opposed to screws ). The double sided tape makes a huge difference when it comes to noise. The scope is almost completely silent now even with nothing else running.
After a few hours of runtime the scope seems 5c-10c hotter. Should I be worried? Could this cause any issues / shorter lifespan ?

Probably nothing immediate, but you're just going to cook the electrolytics and shorten their life.  I would get rid of the resistor for sure.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 37661
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2015, 11:16:32 am »
Third, "most of us" apparently can afford simply to write off 400 dollars.... well, fine, but I can't. One wonders why these wealthy people have bought this "crappy sub $400" scope to begin with, if they are in such a great financial position that they can risk buying a "crappy, practically disposable" oscilloscope in the first place. Why didn't they buy a "real" scope from Agilent or LeCroy, if the money means that little to them?

The issue here is not one of people being able to afford it and happy to write it off, it's one of calculated risk.
What are the odds of something going wrong with your scope within the first 12 months? It's actually pretty low, maybe a few percent tops. That's a low enough risk for most people to take the chance and modify their scope.

Quote
Hey, it's your scope, modify it if you want. I just think it's pretty silly to spend an hour of your valuable time, plus the cost of the encoder, to change something on your crappy, practically disposable, under $400 scope to begin with, when the fault that is being "fixed" isn't in the scope, but rather is in the user.

Some people just like optimising things. Nothing wrong with that.
 

Offline andersm

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1198
  • Country: fi
Re: Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*
« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2015, 11:21:46 am »
Rigol probably saved $0.10 using a non-detented encoder vs. the stock in there right now.
Encoders with and without detents cost the same.


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf