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Author Topic: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base  (Read 5248 times)

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Offline starwolf73

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Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« on: August 14, 2015, 11:20:00 AM »
Hi,

First I would like to thanks David L. Jones and the community who support it for such a great site and information. I been reading lots of posts and listening to great informative ( and humorous  :-DD) videos.

Done my study in electronic with Motorola 6809 and Z80 almost 20 years from now but... life sent me on another path. So I'm back in electronic as a hobbyist with a lots of project in my mind. I have rebuild my lab with mostly all minimum tool required like a digital scope Rigol DS1054Z, a Old Tek465B, Programmable Power Supply, etc  and thanks to eBay for lots of cheap components.

Trying to troubleshoot my little project with ESP8266 and a temperature/humidity sensor ( DHT11/22 ), I was trying to adjust the screen to read it better since it was a proprietary protocol. Well, to my surprise, I wasn't able to find the Variable Time Base on my new Digital scope DS1054Z. I did search the web and manual but the scale look like is fixed.

I know this is an entry level scope but anyone has find a way to change the Time Scale on this model?

Thanks
 

Online tautech

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2015, 11:43:27 AM »
Welcome to the forum.

Most DSO adjustments when "pushed" toggle into a fine adjustment mode.
Try that.
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Offline dadler

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2015, 11:45:57 AM »
Did you try turning the horizontal time base knob?
 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2015, 12:36:22 PM »
The illustration below the link says MSO1104Z but I think the 1000 series has a consistent layout - note No. 18 Horizontal Control

http://www.tequipment.net/assets/1/26/MSO1000Z_DS1000Z_UserGuide.pdf
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 12:38:28 PM by Electro Fan »
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2015, 02:05:37 PM »
Welcome to the forum.

Most DSO adjustments when "pushed" toggle into a fine adjustment mode.
Try that.
Not on the Horizontal Scale knob of the 1054z. Pushing this knob puts the scope into the "delayed timebase" aka Horizontal Zoom mode but you still only have the fixed sec/div steps available.
Only the Channel Vertical Scale knob works to set a "vernier" or fine adjustment V/div mode for the selected channel. Pushing the smaller Vertical Position knob centers the trace vertically; pushing the smaller Horizontal Position knob centers the Trigger point horizontally; pushing the small Trigger Level knob sets the Trigger Level to the baseline position of the selected Trigger Channel.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 02:15:03 PM by alsetalokin4017 »
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Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2015, 02:13:38 PM »
The illustration below the link says MSO1104Z but I think the 1000 series has a consistent layout - note No. 18 Horizontal Control

http://www.tequipment.net/assets/1/26/MSO1000Z_DS1000Z_UserGuide.pdf

Er... isn't that a bit obvious?

Perhaps the OP means the _variable_ Timebase setting as found on Analog scopes like his 465.  The small red knob on the seconds/div knob varies the actual time/div smoothly between the actual set values given by the big switch knob. Most Analog scopes have this feature so that the user can adjust the display for best look when not actually using the fixed timebase values for frequency measurement, or for "on the fly" calibration of the timebase. (Use the "cal" position or detent of the small red knob if doing frequency measurements, or tweak the red knob while monitoring a known frequency source so that the secs/div are exactly accurate on the CRT display.)
As far as I am aware this feature doesn't appear on many DSOs, and certainly not on the Rigol 1054Z. You are stuck with the fixed values available on the Horizontal Scale knob detent settings.
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Offline starwolf73

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2015, 02:10:53 AM »
Thanks everyone. I was exactly looking for this variable on the fly similar to the one I have on my analog tek465b (red button) which seem to not exist on this digital one. Seem like a nice feature to add.


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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2015, 06:11:39 AM »
Thanks everyone. I was exactly looking for this variable on the fly similar to the one I have on my analog tek465b (red button) which seem to not exist on this digital one. Seem like a nice feature to add.

This feature already exists on most DSOs, it's called "vertical horizontal zoom".

Edit: corrected
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 07:45:10 AM by Wuerstchenhund »
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Offline starwolf73

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2015, 06:33:10 AM »
Unfortunately "Vertical" is for voltage where Horizontal is the Time/Frequency Scale. You are correct that Vertical have a Fine adjustment and that is exactly what I'm looking for but on the horizontal scale (Time/Frequency). My Analog Scope Tek 465B have it and I thought this was a basic feature on every scope. I will surely look into this feature next time I bought another Digital Scope.

As an example, I'm trying to troubleshoot and learn the proprietary protocol of the sensor DHT11/22 via my digital scope. Since the 0 and 1 are specific to a timing, to better display them I normally would have change the "Variable" Time Scale so one cycle (0 or 1) fit in a square on the scope grid to decode it.

Maybe I'm not using the right method. I'm curious to know what other way, you guys, would you have troubleshoot a proprietary protocol like DHT11 with a scope?
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2015, 06:49:59 AM »
I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to do, but perhaps using the 1054z Cursors would help. You can use the "A" and "B" cursors individually to bracket one cycle of your waveform, then you can move them both together along the total waveform to see if other cycles match.
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2015, 07:50:43 AM »
Unfortunately "Vertical" is for voltage where Horizontal is the Time/Frequency Scale. You are correct that Vertical have a Fine adjustment and that is exactly what I'm looking for but on the horizontal scale (Time/Frequency).

Yes, I know, I wanted to type "horizontal" and then typed "vertical".

Quote
My Analog Scope Tek 465B have it and I thought this was a basic feature on every scope. I will surely look into this feature next time I bought another Digital Scope.

I don't have a Rigol scope (so I can't say if it can do that) but on every DSO I've used and which was made in the last 15 years or so this is done via horizontal zoom function.

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Offline starwolf73

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2015, 02:07:30 PM »
I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to do, but perhaps using the 1054z Cursors would help. You can use the "A" and "B" cursors individually to bracket one cycle of your waveform, then you can move them both together along the total waveform to see if other cycles match.

That a great idea, thanks. I also discovery the function Nth in the trigger which let you trigger on the X edge after a specific idle time. In a more complex way I also found out the REF option which can let you have a ghost grid to compare.

I don't have a Rigol scope (so I can't say if it can do that) but on every DSO I've used and which was made in the last 15 years or so this is done via horizontal zoom function.

Don't mixed up the Zoom function with the Variable Time Base. Zoom function has you mention is just the delayed scan time that zoom in a particular time slot on different FIXED scale. Variable Time Base let you change the Fixed scale 100us/10us/1us... to scale in between 100us...10us.
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2015, 10:41:26 PM »
I don't have a Rigol scope (so I can't say if it can do that) but on every DSO I've used and which was made in the last 15 years or so this is done via horizontal zoom function.

Don't mixed up the Zoom function with the Variable Time Base.

I know what variable time base on analog scopes does, thanks.

Quote
Zoom function has you mention is just the delayed scan time that zoom in a particular time slot on different FIXED scale

No, on digital scope it's not (you're mixing it up with what was called "zoom" on some analog scopes, which worked differently). Unless used post-acquisition, horizontal zoom is the *real-time* representation of the acquisition data in a different, *variable* time scale.

Quote
Variable Time Base let you change the Fixed scale 100us/10us/1us... to scale in between 100us...10us.

Exactly. As does horizontal zoom. I attached a screenshot showing a pulse train at a normal time base of 100ns/div and a zoomed *real-time* time base of 23.5ns/div as demonstration.

As I said I don't have a Rigol but I would expect that it can do horizontal zooming in a similar way.

Edit: I had a very quick(!) look into the DS1000z user manual and it seems that Rigol has implemented its zoom to work in a similar way as on old analog scopes (i.e. via delayed sweep). There also doesn't seem to be any setting to allow variable time bases outside the fixed steps. Unless I missed something that seems like a pretty poor implementation.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 12:42:21 AM by Wuerstchenhund »
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2015, 11:45:12 PM »
How it explain original very simple question about Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base? (Time Base fine adjustment).

How this question can generate here this kind of hassle about so simply thing. Is there variable (or vernier, or fine adjust or how we want name it) for TB setting between 1-2-5 fixed steps.
RTFM.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 11:48:49 PM by rf-loop »
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Offline Marc M.

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2015, 01:03:42 AM »
On the DS2000 series, the fine or 'un-calibrated' setting is under Horizontal/Menu/ScaleAdjust  Course/Fine
I would expect it to be in the same place on the DS1054Z (if it's supported).
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Offline Electro Fan

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2015, 01:47:28 AM »
On the DS2000 series, the fine or 'un-calibrated' setting is under Horizontal/Menu/ScaleAdjust  Course/Fine
I would expect it to be in the same place on the DS1054Z (if it's supported).

I didn't know that was in there - Nice Find!

(It's like getting a new product :) when you discover a feature :) that's been there all along :palm:)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 01:51:31 AM by Electro Fan »
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2015, 01:49:34 AM »
RTFM.

I second that.  Marc, W├╝rstchenhund -- I appreciate that everybody is trying to be helpful. But since the OP's question was specifically referring to variable time base in the DS1054Z, why don't we leave the answer to users who have or know that instrument? As already pointed out by alsetalokin4017 early on in this thread, the DS1000Z series does not have this feature.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 01:51:54 AM by ebastler »
 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2015, 02:00:32 AM »
RTFM.

I second that.  Marc, W├╝rstchenhund -- I appreciate that everybody is trying to be helpful. But since the OP's question was specifically referring to variable time base in the DS1054Z, why don't we leave the answer to users who have or know that instrument? As already pointed out by alsetalokin4017 early on in this thread, the DS1000Z series does not have this feature.

Sorry for the noise to signal ratio but FWIW the original DS1000Z manual indicates the feature was present for the original version of the DS1000Z series products; perhaps/apparently it was dropped in the 1054.  So to be clear, some of the products in the DS1000Z series have the feature.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 02:03:14 AM by Electro Fan »
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2015, 02:02:55 AM »
Sorry for the noise to signal ratio but FWIW the original DS1000Z manual indicates the feature was present for the original version of the DS1000Z series products; perhaps/apparently it was dropped in the 1054.

Sorry, mate -- you are confusing "horizontal" and "vertical". We've been there, in this very thread.
 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2015, 02:04:47 AM »
Sorry for the noise to signal ratio but FWIW the original DS1000Z manual indicates the feature was present for the original version of the DS1000Z series products; perhaps/apparently it was dropped in the 1054.

Sorry, mate -- you are confusing "horizontal" and "vertical". We've been there, in this very thread.

Oh.... uh oh, looks like I was either 90 degrees or maybe 270 degrees out of phase.... sorry.
 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2015, 02:28:40 AM »
OK, big disclaimer - This is OFF TOPIC:

When the inevitable thread about "what are the differences between the 2000 series and the 1000 series" comes up it would seem that the ability to make fine (vs. coarse) adjustments on the horizontal scale should be on the list. It's not a huge feature but apparently some people use it or would like it....
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Variable Time Base
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2015, 03:14:21 AM »
On the DS2000 series, the fine or 'un-calibrated' setting is under Horizontal/Menu/ScaleAdjust  Course/Fine
I would expect it to be in the same place on the DS1054Z (if it's supported).

Simple.
DS2000 have horizontal t/div fine adjust.
DS1000Z do not have. (and just also made live check with scope to be absolutely sure)
Also same if use DS1000Z horizontal  "zoom". Zoom window also have 1-2-5 steps and not fine adjust.


Vertical is other case. DS1000Z have vertical fine adjust and normal 1-2-5 steps.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 03:18:38 AM by rf-loop »
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