Rigol DS1054Z/DS1000Z poll: are hacked options actually useful for you?

[Fungus]

I watched a few minutes, as your link includes the time, also I've seen that video before. Dave explicitly says that is not noise on the input, but how display engine works (sin(x)/x), out of 1 bit ADC reading change there appears such thing.

There's a perfect periodic glitch on the display engine on all 4 channels?

That doesn't sound like the sort of thing I'd want in an oscilloscope. If it was Rigol you'd be screaming "bug!!!"

[ProBang2]

The glitch obviously happens with 250 MHz ==> Samplerate.

Not very impressive...   

[wraper]

There's a perfect periodic glitch on the display engine on all 4 channels?

That doesn't sound like the sort of thing I'd want in an oscilloscope. If it was Rigol you'd be screaming "bug!!!"

It's not a glitch. There is a one sampling point (dot of the screen) per each of that so called "glitch". It how sin(x)/x works. You can perfectly see that if set it to the dot mode (and what Dave does later).

[wraper]

So how this screenshot from DS2000 is a lower noise or a tiny bit better? What we can see here is that no sin(x)/x happens at the display stage (can be seen when zooming in already captured waveform) unlike in GDS-1000B, don't forget that sampling frequency here is higher too.

[ebclr]

For those guys that want to see a perfect rms value on a 8 bit scope, I would like to inform that have a revolutionary measure instrument called multi-meter who work better than a scope to do that like  the fluke 87V.

I use the scope basically to see voltage x time, in real word usage the shape and timing are the keys points on a scope, specially on very low priced scopes.

Id somebody buy very low price scope to use in a metrological lab as a standard, it's clear that that this guy brain isn't fully populated by neurons cells

I use the Rigol scope totally successful for service and development on microprocessor and FPGA, and I did even know that they can display rms value, since i never needed that , because i would prefer to user a multimeter to make this kind of measure ( 100 Kzs max ).

It's amazing that the same one that point a rms measure as a "supposed serious bug" don't care about double the bandwidth, who will help in better better measures on rise / fall time. Serial decoding for "free"

For sure Rigol isn't a Keisight Tecktronics or Lecroy, but they give you all you can expect from a Chinese product, with the basics working and a lot of little bugs and hugly internal construction, same as any Chinese toy, camera , chair etc

If you wanna product's with fine details buy swiss products and Paid the tag for that, dont buy Chinese price and ask European quality this is not reality

[Fungus]

So how this screenshot from DS2000 is a lower noise or a tiny bit better?

Ummm....it's noise, honest noise. We expect that in an instrument.

The GW-Instek stuff isn't 'noise' at all, it's a perfectly regular and repeating glitch. On all 4 channels.



Most people would call that a 'problem', not noise.

[wraper]

So how this screenshot from DS2000 is a lower noise or a tiny bit better?

Ummm....it's noise, honest noise. We expect that in an instrument.

The GW-Instek stuff isn't 'noise' at all, it's a perfectly regular and repeating glitch. On all 4 channels.

I't not a glitch. Watch the video when Dave zooms in what it is. There is a sampling point in the center of each of those. It's how sin(x)x function displays a waveform.

[Fungus]

It's how sin(x)x function displays a waveform.

Yes, we understand that perfectly. No need to keep repeating it, thanks.

The question is: WHY, not what. Noise is random, that clearly isn't noise, it's a periodic glitch.

If it was Rigol you'd be all over that. It would be a "bug!", it would probably have a name by now.

[wraper]

It's how sin(x)x function displays a waveform.

Yes, we understand that perfectly. No need to keep repeating it, thanks.

The question is: WHY, not what. Noise is random, that clearly isn't noise, it's a periodic glitch.

If it was Rigol you'd be all over that. It would be a "bug!", it would probably have a name by now.

Because when he move that waveform vertically (can be seen on the video), it changes/disappears as display has limited resolution. What you are calling being an "artifact" is lower than a noise on the rigol screen. So yeah, if there is random crap in the screen, then it is "fine" but if there is lower than than that random crap on the fixed points, depending on the waveform position on the screen, then it is "wrong"?

[System Error Message]

glad that its not noise at least. If it is repeating than maybe it can be subtracted?

If you arent satisfied with the scope at this price range perhaps you could build your own. it may take a while though  to get one of equal or better specs but you would have to consider the cost of the screen, FPGA and memory.

Is the memory on the scope is it stored in the ram or is it some on chip memory like the CPU cache or on die RAM like intel has with some of their IGPs? I know for FPGAs tend to have a lot more memory than regular CPUs. Maybe instead of using FPGA you salvage a GPU chip for the job as it is very fast at math and with very high bandwidth memory but the cooling would be hilarious.

[Fungus]

What you are calling being an "artifact" is lower than a noise on the rigol screen. So yeah, if there is random crap in the screen, then it is "fine" but if there is lower than than that random crap on the fixed points, depending on the waveform position on the screen, then it is "wrong"?

Yes. An "artifact", at fixed points, depending on the waveform position on the screen, is wrong.

How can you possibly tell people it isn't?

[Fungus]

If you arent satisfied with the scope at this price range...

I'm perfectly happy with my DS1054Z.

I really can't understand why I'm being told I should prefer something with half the bandwidth, less functions and much lower build quality. It makes no sense at all to me. 

[wraper]

There is 256 magabyte ram connected to the FPGA/CPU ZINQ combo.

glad that its not noise at least. If it is repeating than maybe it can be subtracted?

There is nothing to subtract. And it can only be a bit apparent on the flat line and is below noise level anyway, and not periodic unless you specially fine tune the waveform position on the display + fiddle with other things. Also it can be argued that there is no such a thing on rigol is a good thing, because an accuracy of sin(x)/x in it is kind of lacking. It does not try to draw proper sine waveform out of 1 bit of data what can easily seen while vertically zooming it stopped waveform (you will see rectangles). Waveform does not change while moving it on the screen vertically because there in no signal processing on the display stage unlike in instek.

[System Error Message]

Ah so the memory is basically just standard ram. Maybe some desoldering and soldering of more ram but i guess it also depends on the compute ability of the scope itself.

I do have some questions for rigol owners. Since the rigol DS1054z has ethernet and usb has anyone used the ethernet on it? What features does it have over ethernet and are you able to take the direct measurements/points from the scope to the PC and have the PC do all the memory and compute instead?

These scopes have usb and ethernet so why burden the scope with software features that could be offloaded to the PC instead? I know for standalone and portability you do need features but when more compute power is available like a PC does it get used? has anyone even talked about the included PC software?

[madires]

I think it is safe to assume that those who have bought the scope, and are regulars on this forum, did know what they were buying and had their reasons to buy.

Exactly! I've bought a DS1054Z because of the low price, memory depth and the "free" options to supplement my 150MHz Hameg without any decoding features and only 1M memory per channel. I know the issues but I have no problem with them. There's no perfect tool for all your needs.

[Fungus]

I do have some questions for rigol owners. Since the rigol DS1054z has ethernet and usb has anyone used the ethernet on it?

Yes, a lot of people use it.

What features does it have over ethernet

All of them, I think.

are you able to take the direct measurements/points from the scope to the PC and have the PC do all the memory and compute instead?

Yes.

Here's the programming guide: http://www.batronix.com/pdf/Rigol/ProgrammingGuide/MSO1000Z_DS1000Z_ProgrammingGuide_EN.pdf

[wraper]

hese scopes have usb and ethernet so why burden the scope with software features that could be offloaded to the PC instead? I know for standalone and portability you do need features but when more compute power is available like a PC does it get used? has anyone even talked about the included PC software?

Data to the PC is transferred very slowly. Useful if you want to do some deeper processing with captured data, super slow and almost useless for a real time.

[ebclr]

I guess is no more useless than your coments

[Fungus]

You mean I can't send the full 1GSa/sec of data over Ethernet in real time? 

Oh, no!   

[wraper]

Even decent USB scopes do most of the processing internally in FPGA/ASIC and only processed data is then sent to the PC for displaying it. Because otherwise it in not possible to achieve any decent waveform capture rate at all. Data stream from the 8 bit 1 GSPS ADC is 8 gigabits per second, so it's not even possible to transfer it over ethernet directly without any preprocessing.

[Fungus]

has anyone even talked about the included PC software?

We don't mention that around here. It curses your 'scope and brings bad luck to the owner.

But ... certain forum members have written some nice utilities. Search the forums.

[ebclr]

The ProgrammingGuide_EN.pdf is a hidden treasure who open a wide range of applications specially  automated tests

[alsetalokin4017]

(snip)

I do have some questions for rigol owners. Since the rigol DS1054z has ethernet and usb has anyone used the ethernet on it?

(snip)

http://www.teuniz.net/DSRemote/

[rstofer]

Unfortunately, qmake seems to require a version of Qt4 or Qt5 well beyond what the Debian repositories are providing.  There is a Linux installer for 5.7 but I messed up somewhere because it simply installed it in my home directory - not entirely useful.  So, it's off to build from source but typing the configuration commands exceeds my interest in DSRemote.

It may very well be that Ubuntu has a more up-to-date version of Qt4 or Qt5.  If that's the case, the build should go quite easily.

[Bzzz]

Have DS1000Z series scope but didn't hack it yet.

And if I do, it will be bandwidth. Contrary to most of the forum users here, I'd only unlock stuff that is not sold by Rigol in any way. Unlocking purchasable software features via a ...very smart random number generator is usually considered piracy.