Author Topic: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO  (Read 25906 times)

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Offline iloveelectronics

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Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« on: July 03, 2013, 11:38:54 pm »
My new DS1104Z arrived yesterday! Unfortunately I haven't had much time to play around with it yet but I thought I would at least snap a quick picture (with just random noise signal from the probe dangling in the air) so people can see the real thing in the flesh :)

I will try to update this thread with more pictures and screen captures etc as time allows.

I don't know much about testing these things so if anyone has any simple test ideas that'd be great. I don't have a lot of fancy equipment but I do now own a Rigol DG1022U function generator which should help.

I ordered his directly from China and I reckon this oscilloscope might still be at least a few months away from being ready for other markets, because in the CD that comes with it there isn't even a full English manual yet. There's the quick guide in both Chinese and English, but the full user manual is only available in Chinese.
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2013, 12:12:15 am »
Wow, thanks for posting this (and the other pictures to come) - it really looks impressive; one thing that jumped at me is the number of soft buttons and their consistent arrangement on the side of the screens (I am not a big fan of soft buttons on the bottom), although I find the shapes that surround the various controls a bit fuzzy to my eye...

Regarding the user's manual only in Chinese - oh well, throughout my life I had to learn English to read the manuals of various appliances and equipment, thus this is just a shift in the world's order... :)
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Offline marmad

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2013, 12:16:49 am »
One thing you could try at some point is whether the license code LLLLLLL-RLGLLDS-DSA9LLL-LLLLLLL gives you the full options (as it seems to do on all of the other DS series scopes).  ;)
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2013, 12:19:43 am »
Try an AM signal to check the color gradation.
Well, the yellow trace looks weird like if it was a digital magnification only... Like on my DSOX2002A .  :(
Maybe you should have ordered the scope with signal generator.
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Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2013, 12:23:27 am »
Where do you enter a license code? I don't have the scope with me at the moment but I could try when I get back to my lab tomorrow. I don't recall seeing an option to enter any code while I went through the menu items though.
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Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2013, 12:25:08 am »
Try an AM signal to check the color gradation.
Well, the yellow trace looks weird like if it was a digital magnification only... Like on my DSOX2002A .  :(
Maybe you should have ordered the scope with signal generator.

I'll try to do some proper screen captures tomorrow. I didn't buy the -S version with the function gen because I just got the DG1022U and I didn't think I would need so many signal sources.
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Offline marmad

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2013, 12:34:05 am »
Where do you enter a license code? I don't have the scope with me at the moment but I could try when I get back to my lab tomorrow. I don't recall seeing an option to enter any code while I went through the menu items though.

There are options for it, right? If it's the same as the DS2000, it's under Utility -> Options -> Setup. But if you have Trial Minutes, don't use it until they run out (since it will zero the counters). BTW, if there's a blinking up/down arrow on the screen, it means you can use the up or down arrow for more menu choices.

About the layout: it generally looks pretty good, although I wonder about the decision to put the up/down menu buttons on the left side together under the menu buttons, but on the right side both above and below the menu buttons. Give some feedback about how that works for you - if you find yourself reaching for the wrong place on either side of the screen, or whether you get used to it.

BTW, I don't see a Decode button - but it does have the possibility of bus decoding, right? Perhaps it's just a menu elsewhere.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 12:35:53 am by marmad »
 

Offline KuchateK

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2013, 12:47:47 am »
Where did you order it and how much did you pay? How long did you have to wait for it?
 

Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2013, 12:56:21 am »
There are options for it, right? If it's the same as the DS2000, it's under Utility -> Options -> Setup. But if you have Trial Minutes, don't use it until they run out (since it will zero the counters). BTW, if there's a blinking up/down arrow on the screen, it means you can use the up or down arrow for more menu choices.

Yes, there are options. In fact, I ordered the option for recording waveforms when I placed my order, still waiting for that code to be sent to me though. I'm hoping that your "universal" code won't work so I don't feel so stupid...LOL!

Quote
About the layout: it generally looks pretty good, although I wonder about the decision to put the up/down menu buttons on the left side together under the menu buttons, but on the right side both above and below the menu buttons. Give some feedback about how that works for you - if you find yourself reaching for the wrong place on either side of the screen, or whether you get used to it.

During the limited time I spent on it I didn't have too much problem with those arrow keys. But I guess I'll have a better feel as I use it more. BTW, I find the menu on the left really handy for turning on measurement displays (does the DS2000 have this too?), but it's a bit silly that they don't let you turn a measurement off by pushing the same button again! You have to go the the "measure" menu on the right to turn them off. Why?!

Quote
BTW, I don't see a Decode button - but it does have the possibility of bus decoding, right? Perhaps it's just a menu elsewhere.

Yes, bus decoding is another available option for purchase. I assume it will open up some additional menu items, I'm not sure.
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Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2013, 01:06:20 am »
Where did you order it and how much did you pay? How long did you have to wait for it?

I ordered it directly from one of their distributors in Beijing, China. The scope itself costs about $670 shipped. I ordered the waveform recording option for another $160 or so. It was in stock so apart from the few days of shipping time it took there wasn't any wait.

I don't know how they are going to price them in other markets, but based on the other Rigol products for sale in China their pricing in China doesn't differ much from other markets. Actually a lot of the times their Chinese prices are HIGHER than the US prices!
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Offline marmad

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2013, 03:12:52 am »
Yes, there are options. In fact, I ordered the option for recording waveforms when I placed my order, still waiting for that code to be sent to me though. I'm hoping that your "universal" code won't work so I don't feel so stupid...LOL!

Well, it never hurts to have the official code - since the 'universal' code has to be entered every time you boot up. But I DO think the code will work - since it works on the DS2000/DS4000 - and the DSO you have was definitely manufactured before the code was leaked.
 
Quote
During the limited time I spent on it I didn't have too much problem with those arrow keys. But I guess I'll have a better feel as I use it more. BTW, I find the menu on the left really handy for turning on measurement displays (does the DS2000 have this too?)

Yes - same setup - although the DS2000 has a 'Menu' button above and 'Up/Down Arrow' buttons below each side of the screen.

Quote
Yes, bus decoding is another available option for purchase. I assume it will open up some additional menu items, I'm not sure.

I'm just wondering how they will deal with that and the waveform recording in the FW - since you're missing the dedicated buttons and knob that are on the DS2000
 

Offline nack

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2013, 08:13:25 am »
Where did you order it and how much did you pay? How long did you have to wait for it?

I ordered it directly from one of their distributors in Beijing, China. The scope itself costs about $670 shipped. I ordered the waveform recording option for another $160 or so. It was in stock so apart from the few days of shipping time it took there wasn't any wait.

I don't know how they are going to price them in other markets, but based on the other Rigol products for sale in China their pricing in China doesn't differ much from other markets. Actually a lot of the times their Chinese prices are HIGHER than the US prices!

Does their distributor has an online website or something similar for us to have a look at? I'm looking forward to some more images from the unit. Looks really nice.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2013, 08:32:28 am »
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Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2013, 03:33:52 pm »
A few more screen captures.

1. The probe picking up some 50Hz or so noise (at 1mV per division) while not connected to anything.
2. AM waveform to demonstrate the 64-level intensity grading.
3. 1MHz sine and 1MHz square waves with the "measure all" display on.
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Offline marmad

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2013, 08:02:16 pm »
Sorry to say, but I think it's unlikely they're doing 64-level intensity grading. It appears they've reduced it from the DS2000/DS4000 series - perhaps to 32 levels maximum. I looked through the DS1000Z data sheet, and unlike the DS2000 datasheet which specifically mentions up to 256 levels of intensity in a couple of places, Rigol appears to have done something similar to GW-Instek (with the GDS-2000A datasheet) in that they don't mention ANYWHERE how many levels of grading the DS1000Z can do. Judging by your images, I can't say I'm much of a fan of what they've done with it.

Not a big fan of the changes to the screen design/colors either; I prefer the more subtle shading on the DS2000. I wonder if it's linked to the maximum amount of simultaneous colors they're using.

You should check how the intensity grading is functioning by sending the same AM signal into all 4 inputs simultaneously (or just using the 50Hz noise), making a screen capture, then counting colors in Photoshop (or similar) - as in the attached image.




Also, for the benefit of others, you might consider using a frequency counter on the Trigger Out and making a quick table of the waveform update rates (similar to the following from the DS2000):

« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 08:12:01 pm by marmad »
 

Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2013, 08:55:44 pm »
I forgot where I read the 64-level claim from and I can't seem to find it now. But Rigol has some better picture on their web site which look better than the ones I captured:
http://www.rigol.com/upload/13-04/22/VIDEO_CN.bmp
http://www.rigol.com/upload/13-05/07/1367903565.jpg
http://www.rigol.com/upload/13-05/07/1367903544.jpg

I'll try to play around with the settings and see if I can do something better tomorrow. Will also try the trigger out.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 08:57:29 pm by iloveelectronics »
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Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2013, 09:04:17 pm »
And BTW, I didn't expect this scope to match the performance of the DS2000 series. I bought it mainly because of the 4 channels. I was expecting performance and features in between the 1000E and 2000 series.

The waveform recording and playback feature is also no match for the DS2000. This one only offers the basic recording and playback functions, no advanced analysis sort of stuff.
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Offline marmad

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2013, 09:31:06 pm »
I forgot where I read the 64-level claim from and I can't seem to find it now. But Rigol has some better picture on their web site which look better than the ones I captured:

Yes, but pictures can 'lie' (or be chosen very specifically) - specs are (supposedly) the final word. And you have to imagine, they might have changed the specifications in-between those screenshots and the final product. I checked your images and the linked BMP (you can't check JPGs - they're compressed - only BMP or PNG), and the max. colors (levels) I've seen so far has been 36.

And BTW, I didn't expect this scope to match the performance of the DS2000 series. I bought it mainly because of the 4 channels. I was expecting performance and features in between the 1000E and 2000 series.

The waveform recording and playback feature is also no match for the DS2000. This one only offers the basic recording and playback functions, no advanced analysis sort of stuff.

I understand - it's not a 'real' criticism of the DSO - and definitely not one of you. :)  It makes market sense if Rigol tones down some of the capabilities of the DS2000 series; it's still a great deal for 4-channels.

Edit: BTW, all of my interest (and request for definitive data) is just to broaden the amount of 'public' information available about the DSO - beyond what Rigol releases in the specifications (such as wfrm/s rates when using three or four channels). I absolutely think it's a great new product.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 03:41:49 am by marmad »
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2013, 11:12:29 pm »
the DS2000 datasheet which specifically mentions up to 256 levels of intensity
My DSOX2002A has only 64 levels of intensity grading.  :(
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Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2013, 01:48:48 am »
You should check how the intensity grading is functioning by sending the same AM signal into all 4 inputs simultaneously (or just using the 50Hz noise), making a screen capture, then counting colors in Photoshop (or similar) - as in the attached image.

Went back to the lab this evening and captured the attached screenshots. First one is a noise signal generated by by FG with only 1 channel turned on. I counted 38 (37 excluding the grey grid) colours in the waveform area. Second one has all 4 channels turned on, first 2 channels is the same noise signal from the FG, and channel 3 and 4 are just noise picked up by the probes. I counted 83 (82 excluding grid) colours.

Quote
Also, for the benefit of others, you might consider using a frequency counter on the Trigger Out and making a quick table of the waveform update rates (similar to the following from the DS2000):

Am I suppose to feed a signal into the scope while doing this? What about triggering? I couldn't seem to get any repeatable readings as soon as I started fiddling with the vertical settings or the trigger or the signal source. What the screen is displaying (size of waveform, etc) seems to have an impact on the frequency I'm reading from the Trigger Out. Note that I don't have a proper frequency counter, I was only using a couple of different multimeters, and also tried the counter on the DG1022U function gen.
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2013, 02:14:53 am »
It looks nice. :-+
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Offline marmad

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2013, 03:30:29 am »
Went back to the lab this evening and captured the attached screenshots. First one is a noise signal generated by by FG with only 1 channel turned on. I counted 38 (37 excluding the grey grid) colours in the waveform area.

That would be 36 (you forgot to subtract black background color) - same as I counted in the other images. That appears as if it might be close to the maximum levels with a single channel on - perhaps 48 levels in total?

Quote
Second one has all 4 channels turned on, first 2 channels is the same noise signal from the FG, and channel 3 and 4 are just noise picked up by the probes. I counted 83 (82 excluding grid) colours.

Hard to tell what the maximum levels are with multiple channels on since the image is perhaps not the broadest range possible per channel.

Quote
Am I suppose to feed a signal into the scope while doing this? What about triggering? I couldn't seem to get any repeatable readings as soon as I started fiddling with the vertical settings or the trigger or the signal source. What the screen is displaying (size of waveform, etc) seems to have an impact on the frequency I'm reading from the Trigger Out. Note that I don't have a proper frequency counter, I was only using a couple of different multimeters, and also tried the counter on the DG1022U function gen.

A 1MHz sine wave would be best - edge-triggered - and you can use a multimeter as frequency counter if that's what you've got (I use my Fluke 87III). You want to use the shortest memory depth setting (perhaps AUTO - I'm not sure how that functions exactly on the DS1000Z) - and no other functions or measurements running. Then you can test 1, 2, 3, or 4 channels running - vectors/dots - at each time base. The numbers will fluctuate sometimes (if so, just notice the general average) and sometimes they will be rock stable (usually when in dots mode). According to the data sheet, you should get ~30,000 wfrm/s with a single-channel, dots mode, AUTO memory depth, at the 50ns/div setting. You could see what happens with the 50ns/div wfrm/s rate when you turn on Vectors - or more of the channels.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 03:38:25 am by marmad »
 

Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2013, 12:51:26 pm »
That would be 36 (you forgot to subtract black background color) - same as I counted in the other images. That appears as if it might be close to the maximum levels with a single channel on - perhaps 48 levels in total?

I intentionally keep the black in the count as black would have been one of the intensity levels, right? It represents level zero.

Quote
A 1MHz sine wave would be best - edge-triggered - and you can use a multimeter as frequency counter if that's what you've got (I use my Fluke 87III). You want to use the shortest memory depth setting (perhaps AUTO - I'm not sure how that functions exactly on the DS1000Z) - and no other functions or measurements running. Then you can test 1, 2, 3, or 4 channels running - vectors/dots - at each time base. The numbers will fluctuate sometimes (if so, just notice the general average) and sometimes they will be rock stable (usually when in dots mode). According to the data sheet, you should get ~30,000 wfrm/s with a single-channel, dots mode, AUTO memory depth, at the 50ns/div setting. You could see what happens with the 50ns/div wfrm/s rate when you turn on Vectors - or more of the channels.

Will try this and report back.
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Offline alank2

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2013, 01:00:14 pm »
And BTW, I didn't expect this scope to match the performance of the DS2000 series. I bought it mainly because of the 4 channels. I was expecting performance and features in between the 1000E and 2000 series.

I agree with this -  I think the 1000Z is quite an interesting scope because it is a 4 channel scope that is entry level which unless someone knows of another one is a first at this price point.  It may not have 2000 performance, but it does have a lot of features that make it much closer to the 2000 series than the older 1000 series for sure.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2013, 11:09:56 pm »
http://www.eu.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000b/ds1204b/
The DS1204B is obsolete, but it has 1GSa/s per each channel. DS1000Z has only 250MSa/s per channel.  :--
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