Author Topic: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware  (Read 6479 times)

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Offline TheBay

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Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« on: November 13, 2014, 08:55:02 PM »
I did have this in the HUGE Rigol thread, but it's gonna get lost and confuse others, so yeah I think I should start a new thread :)

Just bought a DS2072 non A model. From Toploser (Topbloke more like  :-+)

I have read pages and pages and pages on hacks for this model, things have changed a few times over the time it's been out so have a few questions.

Firstly I want to reset it back to defaults, remove all hacks (300mhz is enabled)
Update firmware (Not sure which is the best version?)

And enable all the options/hacks, but can someone please tell me what the best options are to enable and does 300mhz work on the non A correctly?
Apart from the 1m/50k switch do we now know any different between the A and Non A from a hardware point of view?

Any advice with the above will be gratefully appreciated.

« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 11:03:20 PM by TheBay »
de 2WØODS
 

Offline TheBay

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2014, 11:58:44 PM »
I haven't played with this properly yet so want to get options/firmware right first.

A few must have a DS2000 on here?

:)
de 2WØODS
 

Offline Orange

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2014, 12:18:48 AM »
I did have this in the HUGE Rigol thread, but it's gonna get lost and confuse others, so yeah I think I should start a new thread :)

Just bought a DS2072 non A model. From Toploser (Topbloke more like  :-+)

I have read pages and pages and pages on hacks for this model, things have changed a few times over the time it's been out so have a few questions.

Firstly I want to reset it back to defaults, remove all hacks (300mhz is enabled)
Update firmware (Not sure which is the best version?)

And enable all the options/hacks, but can someone please tell me what the best options are to enable and does 300mhz work on the non A correctly?
Apart from the 1m/50k switch do we now know any different between the A and Non A from a hardware point of view?

Any advice with the above will be gratefully appreciated.
The 300MHz gives you a lot of overshoot on the waveforms, also I think it was Marmed who reported that it will sometimes causes hanging of the scoop.
I have uninstalled the 300 MHz option myself on the DS2000, mainly to get rid of the overshoot.
FW 03.01.00.04 is the latest, and works OK.
the DSEZ code gives you all options, except the 300MHz




 

Offline TheBay

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2014, 01:37:35 AM »
I did have this in the HUGE Rigol thread, but it's gonna get lost and confuse others, so yeah I think I should start a new thread :)

Just bought a DS2072 non A model. From Toploser (Topbloke more like  :-+)

I have read pages and pages and pages on hacks for this model, things have changed a few times over the time it's been out so have a few questions.

Firstly I want to reset it back to defaults, remove all hacks (300mhz is enabled)
Update firmware (Not sure which is the best version?)

And enable all the options/hacks, but can someone please tell me what the best options are to enable and does 300mhz work on the non A correctly?
Apart from the 1m/50k switch do we now know any different between the A and Non A from a hardware point of view?

Any advice with the above will be gratefully appreciated.
The 300MHz gives you a lot of overshoot on the waveforms, also I think it was Marmed who reported that it will sometimes causes hanging of the scoop.
I have uninstalled the 300 MHz option myself on the DS2000, mainly to get rid of the overshoot.
FW 03.01.00.04 is the latest, and works OK.
the DSEZ code gives you all options, except the 300MHz

Thanks for your reply, does 300MHz cause an issue on the DS2000A models as well?
de 2WØODS
 

Offline Orange

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2014, 01:42:55 AM »
I did have this in the HUGE Rigol thread, but it's gonna get lost and confuse others, so yeah I think I should start a new thread :)

Just bought a DS2072 non A model. From Toploser (Topbloke more like  :-+)

I have read pages and pages and pages on hacks for this model, things have changed a few times over the time it's been out so have a few questions.

Firstly I want to reset it back to defaults, remove all hacks (300mhz is enabled)
Update firmware (Not sure which is the best version?)

And enable all the options/hacks, but can someone please tell me what the best options are to enable and does 300mhz work on the non A correctly?
Apart from the 1m/50k switch do we now know any different between the A and Non A from a hardware point of view?

Any advice with the above will be gratefully appreciated.
The 300MHz gives you a lot of overshoot on the waveforms, also I think it was Marmed who reported that it will sometimes causes hanging of the scoop.
I have uninstalled the 300 MHz option myself on the DS2000, mainly to get rid of the overshoot.
FW 03.01.00.04 is the latest, and works OK.
the DSEZ code gives you all options, except the 300MHz

Thanks for your reply, does 300MHz cause an issue on the DS2000A models as well?
I'm not sure I don't have one. Hopefully Rigol did do something on the front-end for 300MHz pulse response on the 2000A series. I know they have included 50 Ohms termination option for this model.
 

Offline TheBay

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2014, 01:58:18 AM »
I did have this in the HUGE Rigol thread, but it's gonna get lost and confuse others, so yeah I think I should start a new thread :)

Just bought a DS2072 non A model. From Toploser (Topbloke more like  :-+)

I have read pages and pages and pages on hacks for this model, things have changed a few times over the time it's been out so have a few questions.

Firstly I want to reset it back to defaults, remove all hacks (300mhz is enabled)
Update firmware (Not sure which is the best version?)

And enable all the options/hacks, but can someone please tell me what the best options are to enable and does 300mhz work on the non A correctly?
Apart from the 1m/50k switch do we now know any different between the A and Non A from a hardware point of view?

Any advice with the above will be gratefully appreciated.
The 300MHz gives you a lot of overshoot on the waveforms, also I think it was Marmed who reported that it will sometimes causes hanging of the scoop.
I have uninstalled the 300 MHz option myself on the DS2000, mainly to get rid of the overshoot.
FW 03.01.00.04 is the latest, and works OK.
the DSEZ code gives you all options, except the 300MHz

Thanks for your reply, does 300MHz cause an issue on the DS2000A models as well?
I'm not sure I don't have one. Hopefully Rigol did do something on the front-end for 300MHz pulse response on the 2000A series. I know they have included 50 Ohms termination option for this model.

Yeah 50 Ohm termination is the only difference I can see, I've done lots of searching to get information on 300mhz on the A and non A but there seems to be little information out there.

As you have a DS2000 have you seen Dave's video today on Jitter?
de 2WØODS
 

Offline EV

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2014, 03:02:17 AM »
Here are some tests about overshoot and risetime with my DS2202 when BW is 300 MHz or 200 MHz.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/1860/
 

Offline TheBay

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2014, 03:26:36 AM »
Here are some tests about overshoot and risetime with my DS2202 when BW is 300 MHz or 200 MHz.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/1860/

interesting,

Do you still have it on 300Mhz? Mine seems to have both 200Mhz and 300Mhz option, but I only have OFF, 20M, 100M in BW Limit?
What firmware are you running?
de 2WØODS
 

Offline Orange

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2014, 03:34:07 AM »
I did have this in the HUGE Rigol thread, but it's gonna get lost and confuse others, so yeah I think I should start a new thread :)

Just bought a DS2072 non A model. From Toploser (Topbloke more like  :-+)

I have read pages and pages and pages on hacks for this model, things have changed a few times over the time it's been out so have a few questions.

Firstly I want to reset it back to defaults, remove all hacks (300mhz is enabled)
Update firmware (Not sure which is the best version?)

And enable all the options/hacks, but can someone please tell me what the best options are to enable and does 300mhz work on the non A correctly?
Apart from the 1m/50k switch do we now know any different between the A and Non A from a hardware point of view?

Any advice with the above will be gratefully appreciated.
The 300MHz gives you a lot of overshoot on the waveforms, also I think it was Marmed who reported that it will sometimes causes hanging of the scoop.
I have uninstalled the 300 MHz option myself on the DS2000, mainly to get rid of the overshoot.
FW 03.01.00.04 is the latest, and works OK.
the DSEZ code gives you all options, except the 300MHz

Thanks for your reply, does 300MHz cause an issue on the DS2000A models as well?
I'm not sure I don't have one. Hopefully Rigol did do something on the front-end for 300MHz pulse response on the 2000A series. I know they have included 50 Ohms termination option for this model.

Yeah 50 Ohm termination is the only difference I can see, I've done lots of searching to get information on 300mhz on the A and non A but there seems to be little information out there.

As you have a DS2000 have you seen Dave's video today on Jitter?
The AC jitter problem was reported already more as a year ago, see
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/msg256168/#msg256168
No big deal, I never use AC trigger coupling.
 

Offline TheBay

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2014, 04:09:34 AM »
I did have this in the HUGE Rigol thread, but it's gonna get lost and confuse others, so yeah I think I should start a new thread :)

Just bought a DS2072 non A model. From Toploser (Topbloke more like  :-+)

I have read pages and pages and pages on hacks for this model, things have changed a few times over the time it's been out so have a few questions.

Firstly I want to reset it back to defaults, remove all hacks (300mhz is enabled)
Update firmware (Not sure which is the best version?)

And enable all the options/hacks, but can someone please tell me what the best options are to enable and does 300mhz work on the non A correctly?
Apart from the 1m/50k switch do we now know any different between the A and Non A from a hardware point of view?

Any advice with the above will be gratefully appreciated.
The 300MHz gives you a lot of overshoot on the waveforms, also I think it was Marmed who reported that it will sometimes causes hanging of the scoop.
I have uninstalled the 300 MHz option myself on the DS2000, mainly to get rid of the overshoot.
FW 03.01.00.04 is the latest, and works OK.
the DSEZ code gives you all options, except the 300MHz

Thanks for your reply, does 300MHz cause an issue on the DS2000A models as well?
I'm not sure I don't have one. Hopefully Rigol did do something on the front-end for 300MHz pulse response on the 2000A series. I know they have included 50 Ohms termination option for this model.

Yeah 50 Ohm termination is the only difference I can see, I've done lots of searching to get information on 300mhz on the A and non A but there seems to be little information out there.

As you have a DS2000 have you seen Dave's video today on Jitter?
The AC jitter problem was reported already more as a year ago, see
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/msg256168/#msg256168
No big deal, I never use AC trigger coupling.

I am not sure if this is an issue for me or not, I work with PSU's and Audio as well.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 04:14:16 AM by TheBay »
de 2WØODS
 

Offline EV

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2014, 04:25:59 AM »
Do you still have it on 300Mhz? Mine seems to have both 200Mhz and 300Mhz option, but I only have OFF, 20M, 100M in BW Limit?
What firmware are you running?

I have the latest FW. If you have 300 MHz BW you should have 1 ns timebase. I don't have 300 MHz BW anymore. There was so few sample points with 1 ns timebase that I uninstalled it. Also the increase in actual BW was not wvery remarable. Look at here, Reply #1987

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/1980/

I also have other faster scopes and so I don't need tis 300 MHz BW. Mardad has also raported some problems with this 300 MHz BW option.
 

Offline TheBay

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2014, 04:27:03 AM »
Do you still have it on 300Mhz? Mine seems to have both 200Mhz and 300Mhz option, but I only have OFF, 20M, 100M in BW Limit?
What firmware are you running?

I have the latest FW. If you have 300 MHz BW you should have 1 ns timebase. I don't have 300 MHz BW anymore. There was so few sample points with 1 ns timebase that I uninstalled it. Also the increase in actual BW was not wvery remarable. Look at here, Reply #1987

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/1980/

I also have other faster scopes and so I don't need tis 300 MHz BW. Mardad has also raported some problems with this 300 MHz BW option.

Thanks, think I will go for 200mhz option.

Has anyone checked the DS2302 model? does it have the same issue?
de 2WØODS
 

Offline EV

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2014, 04:44:33 AM »
Has anyone checked the DS2302 model? does it have the same issue?

I think there is no DS2302 model. There are only DS2302A, DS2302A-S, MSO2302A and MSO2302A-S  models. They have the same problem as DS2302: few samlepoints at 1 ns timebase.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 04:51:42 AM by EV »
 

Offline TheBay

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2014, 04:51:55 AM »
Has anyone checked the DS2302 model? does it have the same issue?

I think there is no DS2302 model. There are only DS2303A, DS2302A-S, MSO2303A and MSO2302A-S  models. They have the same problem as DS2302: few samlepoints at 1 ns timebase.

Sorry yes, that's what I meant the DS2302A, so they behave exactly the same as a 300mhz enabled DS2072/DS2072A?
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Offline Bud

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2014, 05:05:40 AM »
How many is few?
 

Offline EV

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2014, 05:07:23 AM »
Sorry yes, that's what I meant the DS2302A, so they behave exactly the same as a 300mhz enabled DS2072/DS2072A?

How many is few?

I have not seen any tests with these new models. Maybe BW is little higher? You can see this few samlepoits problem here in Reply #2033:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/2025/

There is only one samlepoint per horisontal division if both channels are on.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 05:12:50 AM by EV »
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2014, 05:26:06 AM »
I did a casual test on a mod-ed DS2072a and the 3dB bandwidth was 400MHz on 50 Ohm input. The source was a HP signal gen.
 

Offline EV

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2014, 05:44:17 AM »
I did a casual test on a mod-ed DS2072a and the 3dB bandwidth was 400MHz on 50 Ohm input. The source was a HP signal gen.

It is much better than it was with my DS2202 (about 300/310 MHz). Is there still the problem which you can see in two last pictures to which I refered on my previous post. If the channel 2 is on the trace on channel 1 does not look same as if channel 2 is off.
 

Offline EV

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2014, 05:54:35 AM »
 

Offline TheBay

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2014, 06:07:16 AM »
Sorry yes, that's what I meant the DS2302A, so they behave exactly the same as a 300mhz enabled DS2072/DS2072A?

How many is few?

I have not seen any tests with these new models. Maybe BW is little higher? You can see this few samlepoits problem here in Reply #2033:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/2025/

There is only one samlepoint per horisontal division if both channels are on.

Not sure if anyone on here owns a DS2302A, certainly haven't seen any posts from anyone, would be interesting to find out if there are any hardware differences. Obviously there is the internal 50ohm resistor on the A model, but I prefer to terminate externally as I can see a great big box plugged in to my scope, saves me from blowing it up :)

A DS2302A teardown would be good.

Comparisons with 300mhz on the A and non A would be interesting for the "Moded Models" but 300mhz and 2GSa/s doesn't seem right to me anyway?
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Offline marmad

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2014, 06:29:48 AM »
For me the decision about enabling 300MHz (whether A or non-A) on the DS2000 comes down to this:

Do you want a single-channel 300MHz DSO plus a dual-channel 100MHz DSO - or do you want a dual-channel 200MHz DSO? Those are the choices.

In other words, because of Nyquist (500MHz with both channels on), if you want reliable readings you should have the 100MHz channel BW on when running both channels (if you have 300MHz enabled).
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2014, 08:30:02 AM »

I have not seen any tests with these new models. Maybe BW is little higher? You can see this few samlepoits problem here in Reply #2033:
...
There is only one samlepoint per horisontal division if both channels are on.

This is not a problem, this is the scope capabilities limit. 2GHz sampling is 0.5nS time period, which gives 2 sample points on 1nS timescale setting with 1 channel on, or 1 sample point per 1 nS with both channels on.
 

Offline pa3bca

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2014, 09:09:25 AM »
Overshoot on a 2072A upgraded to 300 MHz is not very large. See attached images, made with a Williams pulse generator with 3.5 mtr coax on the collector. Only 5.2% overshoot, risetime is 1.26 ns.

@Marmad: I have not checked the behavior with the 200 MHz option so I have no comparison. But elsewhere I read that there is not much difference between the 200 and the 300 MHz options in terms of real bandwidth, risetime and overshoot.
Obviously a (n as sharp as possible) lowpass sufficiently below Nyquist is desirable, but with so little difference would this really make the difference between a 2x200 or a 2x100 MHz scope - the latter I assume as a consequence of the fact that there is probably no lowpass filter at all at the 300 MHz option (only the BW of the frontend itself).. So you would run a serious risk of aliasing if you are not careful.
OTOH... if the difference is not spectacular, why run the risk for a little extra BW....

 

Offline Teddy Boom

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Re: Rigol DS2702 Recommended Options/Firmware
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2015, 02:34:37 PM »
The 300MHz gives you a lot of overshoot on the waveforms, also I think it was Marmed who reported that it will sometimes causes hanging of the scoop.
I have uninstalled the 300 MHz option myself on the DS2000, mainly to get rid of the overshoot.
FW 03.01.00.04 is the latest, and works OK.
the DSEZ code gives you all options, except the 300MHz

Just got a DS2072 (non-A) myself, and this sounds like the plan I want to go with. Is there a very concise guide to doing this? Like, FW upgrade first, and then riglol with serial and DSEZ code, then enter the private key manually?

Or do you have to use an intermediate firmware (possibly DS2000-01_01_00_02) and then upgrade after?

Also, how long does a firmware upgrade take? I'm using the bootloader update method (power on then help button, insert key), and I've been waiting patiently here for a good long time already. In another 20 minutes I'm pulling the plug regardless. Is the thing already a brick? ARGH!! :P

Thanks for any help, sorry for bumping the ancient thread, but it seems to be right on topic for me.


EDIT 1: And ya, it was bricked. No worries though, it is already unbricked :) Just tried flashing the DS2000-01_01_00_02 and that worked. I guess I'll try a DSEZ code now..

EDIT 2: Err.. The key that results from the DSEZ code didn't work--maybe doesn't agree with the firmware version? Anyway, the key that results from DSAZ works, and that is reported to be 200MHz with all options too?!?

EDIT 3: And trying to upgrade to 03.01.00.04, it is taking forever again?!?! Few! Finally.. let's see :) Yep, looks like it is working.

Answering my own questions (aka EDIT 4):
1) Bootload flash to 01.01.00.02
2) apply key generated by riglol
3) bootloader upgrade to 03.01.00.04
Appears to work. Tried holding button 6 on the left to clear FRAM, but it is hard to know if that's taken or not.

Flashing firmware isn't that fast.. Takes a couple of minutes, maybe even 5 minutes, but not more than that.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 03:51:26 PM by Teddy Boom »
 


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