Author Topic: Rigol equoipment; has anyone heard of a higher failure rate than other brands??  (Read 16665 times)

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Offline miguelvp

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Quote
And "they" was a masters student at the university.  :palm:
And his/her degree wasn't stripped from them?  |O
In private enterprise they would be kicked out the door before they could wreck anything else.   :phew:

Not really. Lots of people have made $100K or more mistakes and didn't get the boot. It's called training, why fire them after such an expensive lesson?
So a MASTERS student is not expected to know the difference between a SA and a DSO?  :palm:
How many did he/she wreck?  :wtf:
IMO inexcusable

True but then again the Master or Doctorates theorize and they get paid a lot to do so. I believe the count was 10 and repairs between $5K to $10K so one hundred thou.

I agree, it's stupidity and ineptness, but many people even non Masters have screwed up $100K is some stupid mistake (not me... yet... knock on wood) But I don't have a Masters nor a PhD, but can I cause a problem worth $100K or more? Sure, I just hope that doesn't ever happen because I don't want to find out if they'll fire me or keep me.

 

Offline KedasProbe

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I think that's a case of not training the person before they are allowed to use equipment.
In other cases it could have been that the person was 'wrecked' and the equipment that was still ok.
You don't put a person that can drive a car in a crane and say: try to drive over there between those two houses.

Anyway about the subject:
From the 3 Rigol devices (DG4000,DS4000,DM3068) I know of, the scope DS4000 failed on delivery and needed to be replaced.
Haven't seen other failures except for all 3 devices they are a bit buggy and/or have wrong specs.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 09:18:06 am by KedasProbe »
Not everything that counts can be measured. Not everything that can be measured counts.
[W. Bruce Cameron]
 

Offline videobruceTopic starter

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Maybe I should have this thread re-named to which manufacture/importer has the highest percentage of failures.

I have been asking a few repair and calibration sites about a few major players on Spectrum Analyzers. I'm very surprised about the responses with some of the models which happens to be the ones I was looking at. Advantest & Anritsu seem to fair the worst. Lack of parts & support, harder to work on due to size (everything crammed together with the 'portable' models) for starters. The term "cheap" was even used.
 

Offline anotherlin

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Lots of people have made $100K or more mistakes and didn't get the boot. It's called training, why fire them after such an expensive lesson?

I've made that my signature :) Is that ok for you ?
"Lots of people have made $100K or more mistakes and didn't get the boot. It's called training, why fire them after such an expensive lesson?" -- EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
 

Offline miguelvp

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Fine by me.
 

Offline anotherlin

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Thank you :)
"Lots of people have made $100K or more mistakes and didn't get the boot. It's called training, why fire them after such an expensive lesson?" -- EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
 

Offline KedasProbe

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Lots of people have made $100K or more mistakes and didn't get the boot. It's called training, why fire them after such an expensive lesson?
Because some people need to be taught the same lesson twice ;)
Not everything that counts can be measured. Not everything that can be measured counts.
[W. Bruce Cameron]
 

Offline videobruceTopic starter

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How about the multi billion mistake in 2008?  From Bush all the way down little was done if anything other than a slap on the wrist.  :box:
 

Offline CC58

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Before someone blasts me, this isn't meant to discredit Rigol, or anyone else. I'm just looking for units with problems.

I talked with a dealer of this brand and others and was told Rigol has had a very high failure rate. The term "broken" was used. No specific model, but he was apparently referring to their lower end oscilloscopes when he mentioned price (a few hundred dollars). A number of these were purchased for a college and after a couple of years they had to be replaced with Agilent scopes due to the failure rate.

So the question, has anyone seen and/or heard of a higher than usual failure rate for Rigol products?

I am leery of chinese manufactured ICs.  Seen many chinese shortwave radios and ham radios "break" in short order.  I decided to buy an old Tektronix TDS350 200mhz scope for $175 instead of a Rigol.  My guess is the Tek will still work in five years, and the Rigol would be broke.
 

Offline CC58

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So far as my co-worker says, this did happen. And "they" was a masters student at the university.  :palm:

A Field Engineer at my workplace stuck the leads of a Fluke VOM into AC socket with it set to measure current.  Results were it blew the back of the meter off.  He said with a straight face he was trying to measure the current of the outlet.  :palm:
 

Offline idpromnut

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A Field Engineer at my workplace stuck the leads of a Fluke VOM into AC socket with it set to measure current.  Results were it blew the back of the meter off.  He said with a straight face he was trying to measure the current of the outlet.  :palm:

Oie… I know someone that was convinced they were measuring "Amps" used by a motor by probing the motor leads   :palm:    What ensued was a rather lengthy explanation of Volts and Amps and in the end, nothing was learnt I am afraid :(
 

Offline videobruceTopic starter

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I e-mailed Rigol about obtaining a service manual. Here is the reply.
Quote
Hi Bruce,
Our repair process for spectrum analyzers is in the midst of some changes. Currently repair is done overseas back at he factory. This can extend lead times to 12 weeks or more. We hope to establish domestic repair soon but wont have more detail for another month or so. It's not so much that the repair is complicated it's the calibration. So currently there are three options:

1) We can repair the scope for $250 plus shipping.
2) We can sell you a demo/refurb unit.
3) We can provide a discount on a new purchase.

Best regards,
Steve Huss
Applications Engineer
-------------------------------------------------------------
To: Steve_Huss@rigoltech.com
Date: 07/26/2014 05:42AM
Subject: Re: Case # 00004641: Service manual

If that is the case. how is it repaired??

Bruce

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:32:24 -0400, <Steve_Huss@rigoltech.com> wrote:

Hi Bruce,
I think the short answer is we do not have a service manual available. At least I have not been able to track one down.

Best regards,
Steve Huss
Applications Engineer
Rigol Technologies
10200 SW Allen Blvd. Suite C
Beaverton, OR 970056
503-336-9102
---------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 07/13/2014 06:49A
Case #: 00004641
Subject: Service manual
Description: DSA1030A

Is a service manual available for this model (which is now out of warranty)?

Thanks,
Bruce
.
Is anyone aware of this situation??
 

Offline Drirr

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Few years ago, I bought Rigol DS1102E. My decision was based on Daves review. I was so happy when it arrived.
But after 3 months encoders worn out so it was useless. I had no time to send it somewhere and wait one month to fix it so I repaired encoders myself. Since then my rigol was repaired about five times (not only encoders). One last thing i fixed on my rigol was dry capacitors in power supply. Then I sold it.... with 1600 startups in 2 years.

I have replaced it with tek DPO2002b. I know that everyone will be screaming at my why i did not buy Rigol again.
Since i bought tek i had no problem with quality. No firmware lockups, no bugs, no quality issues and I am using it as hard as rigol.  UI and front panel is much more friendly.  Funny is that i paid same money for both scopes. Final use cost of rigol scope was much higher then tek scope because of screwed project whitch i did not finish in time.
sorry
for hobbyist rigol may be okey
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Few years ago, I bought Rigol DS1102E.
[...]
I have replaced it with tek DPO2002b. I know that everyone will be screaming at my why i did not buy Rigol again.

So in short you replaced at what at that time was probably the cheapest low-end China scope on the market with a entry level sope from a big name Western manufacturer that costs more than 3 times as much, and wonder why the latter gives you less grief?  :palm:
 

Offline XFDDesign

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Long ago (in the early 2000s), I was contracted to create FPGA Development boards for my University. The existing FPGA boards on the market were just crammed full of crap, which made for an unintuitive excursion to find "free" pins for doing logic exercises in the lab.

Knowing that these would be abused by students, I had to come up with every possible route I could think of to damage these things. A few items of what I wound up determining:
1. No matter what, use linear regulators. In the worst case, the things get hot and their internal shutdown takes over. (Failsafe) - Switchers had a tendancy to overshoot their target regulation voltage and destroy the FPGA.
2. Anything that the students might touch, needed protection. All of the I/O had 330 ohm series resistors.
3. Someone will eventually burn out the primary path for an important signal, put down alternates and backups.

In the end, these boards were in service for six years, and only went into retirement because the software went obsolete/unsupported. Out of the 28 pc build, there were only two catastrophic/unsalvagable failures in that time- one of them was because a student couldn't locate the wall wart included with the unit, and just "hot wired" line voltage into the thing.

PhDs and Masters degrees mean diddily when it comes to the "practical." This same Uni, had a PhD student-in-progress who decided to take some measurements with a VNA and couldn't figure out what the APC-7 connectors were. In his brilliance, because hey "I'm a PhD student, therefore I'm smart!" he decided to solder an SMA connector onto these connectors. After he was reprimanded, all of the "expensive" gear was locked away into professors' labs and only accessible through obtaining permission and getting grilled on whether you know wtf you're doing or not.

Is then comes as no surprise that the very bottom-barrel test gear by Rigol (or anyone else, really) disintegrates in the School setting. Many of these students approach an instrument like it were spaghetti being thrown to the wall to find out what sticks.
 

Offline Drirr

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@ Wuerstchenhund when i bought DS1102E it was not cheap at all, much more pricey then today.
I bought DPO2002b for 850euro
only difference is time when i bought it

No, and I do not wonder that tek DPO is better, it is exactly what i expected

 Only thing I wonder is that this awesome rigol scope did not survive more then 3 months.





 

Offline saturation

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I do think Rigol uses poor quality rotatory encoders as its a common problem for this class DSO.  I don't read of it as an issue for their other DSOs.  My 1052e started acting funny several months after it was new in 2010 but it is still very workable.

Agilent put out this document in late 2013.  Agilent only compares its products against "big" T&M players so in many ways, its a testament to Rigol's reputation.

http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5990-6738EN.pdf




@ Wuerstchenhund when i bought DS1102E it was not cheap at all, much more pricey then today.
I bought DPO2002b for 850euro
only difference is time when i bought it

No, and I do not wonder that tek DPO is better, it is exactly what i expected

 Only thing I wonder is that this awesome rigol scope did not survive more then 3 months.






« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 11:04:03 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline marshallh

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My Rigol ds2072 was dead on arrival. It took 8 weeks to claim the warranty and end up with the working scope I should've had to begin with.

Ended up selling it and using my lecroy instead.
Verilog tips
BGA soldering intro

11:37 <@ktemkin> c4757p: marshall has transcended communications media
11:37 <@ktemkin> He speaks protocols directly.
 

Offline Drirr

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by the way do anybody know why Rigol uses in DP832 these shitty samyoung KMG caps and putting them near overheating voltage regulators? I have tons of these from cheapest electronics. They usually last one year.
 

Offline videobruceTopic starter

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Agilent put out this document in late 2013.  Agilent only compares its products against "big" T&M players so in many ways, its a testament to Rigol's reputation.
I guess that could be taken more than one way.  ;) I see it as Agilent is has gotten nervous due to the price difference cutting into their sales.

Ok, how much of a price difference between both of these units?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 02:18:36 am by videobruce »
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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@ Wuerstchenhund when i bought DS1102E it was not cheap at all, much more pricey then today.
I bought DPO2002b for 850euro
only difference is time when i bought it

Yes, but at the same time the equivalent Tek entry-level scope would have probably cost you >2kEUR, because entry level scopes in general were much more expensive a few years ago. It's only in recent years that the prices have come down so much.
 

Offline videobruceTopic starter

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It's only in recent years that the prices have come down so much.
But, so has quality. Apparently, the T&M market has taken the path of consumer electronics, down the tubes.  :--
 

Offline saturation

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Agilent put out this document in late 2013.  Agilent only compares its products against "big" T&M players so in many ways, its a testament to Rigol's reputation.
I guess that could be taken more than one way.  ;) I see it as Agilent is has gotten nervous due to the price difference cutting into their sales.
Ok, how much of a price difference between both of these units?

Premium is typically >1.5  cost over a similar performing Rigol, even more against the lesser players.  But if the product doesn't work functionally or breaks easily, the savings is moot as Drirr suggests.  Agilent doesn't have a comparison against Hantek, Siglent, Atten etc., because they don't consider them "players" in this sphere.

http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pd-2115404-pn-DSO1052B/oscilloscope-50-mhz-2-channel

e.g. 1052e Rigol = $330 list, versus 1050B Agilent $520, they are ~ the same scope, both are made by Rigol.



Quote
It's only in recent years that the prices have come down so much.
But, so has quality. Apparently, the T&M market has taken the path of consumer electronics, down the tubes.  :--

This has been going on for some time.  If you are looking at end user support  you can align the manufacturers in order:

Agilent, Tek, LeCroy, Rhode and Schwarz
Instek
Rigol
Atten, Siglent, Hantek

To offset the low cost, you, the buyer, must be prepared to provide your own support far more than the better brands, including hardware repairs.   :-BROKE

That's one of the chief appeals of eevblog, folks come here for support they can't get from the manufacturer or to hack it.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 12:37:29 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Mark_O

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Agilent put out this document in late 2013.  Agilent only compares its products against "big" T&M players so in many ways, its a testament to Rigol's reputation.
I guess that could be taken more than one way.  ;) I see it as Agilent is has gotten nervous due to the price difference cutting into their sales.

What I found strange about that comparison is that in late 2013 Agilent would choose a Rigol scope from 2008/9 to compare against.   :wtf:
 

Offline videobruceTopic starter

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Where would Advantest & Anritsu fit in?
 


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