Rigol MSD2022A vs. Rigol DS4014 Scopes

[commongrounder]

Go to Trigger menu, and set edge trigger.  While keeping trigger menu open, use sixth and seventh right hand menu buttons as follows:  Press [menu7][menu6][menu7][utility] in that order quickly.  You should see additional system details under the SYSTEM>SYSTEM INFO menu item.  You may have to try this more than once to get it to work.  The buttons need to be pushed without hesitation.  Good Luck!

[IDEngineer]

That would be [Utility] -> [System] -> [System Info].

Excellent, thank you. That also gave me an opportunity to test screen capture and the front USB connector:


Not sure how .SP3 relates to the version mentioned in the earlier link. I'll drop Rigol an email and ask.

[IDEngineer]

Go to Trigger menu, and set edge trigger.  While keeping trigger menu open, use sixth and seventh right hand menu buttons as follows:  Press [menu7][menu6][menu7][utility] in that order quickly.  You should see additional system details under the SYSTEM>SYSTEM INFO menu item.  You may have to try this more than once to get it to work.  The buttons need to be pushed without hesitation.  Good Luck!

Tried multiple times with varying timing, etc. Did not work. Always just switched to the Utility menu. Thanks for the suggestion, though. 

[commongrounder]

Huh.  That is odd.  Works fine on my ds4000 scope...

[IDEngineer]

Huh.  That is odd.  Works fine on my ds4000 scope...

Might just be me, my timing, etc. Who knows. Can you post a screenshot of what yours shows when you display it?

[commongrounder]

Here you go.  Are you counting the button labeled "menu" as one of the seven?  The menu buttons you actually push are the bottom two that line up with a screen label.  Just checking, because it should work for you.  My scope has the most recent firmware (within the last couple of weeks)  There is a bug with the help menu, but I never use it, so it doesn't bother me.  Some think the counter overlay is too big now.

[IDEngineer]

Nope, not counting the Menu button. There are seven grey unlabeled "soft" buttons to the right of the screen, between the labeled Menu and dual arrow buttons. I'm trying the bottom two buttons. No luck so far, but I'll try again and report back.

LATER: Ahh... looking at your screen shot and then re-reading your instructions with that in mind, I didn't realize that after you enter the magic sequence you must then display the info using the normal keystrokes. I thought the data was supposed to pop up when you pressed Utility. My mistake. 

Here is what I get now:


...which implies I'm a bit behind the 00.02.02.04.03 firmware. It also looks like the FPGA gets updated when you bump the firmware, since your CCU value is higher than my more recent scope.

[rsjsouza]

Is it my impression or the Self Test Info button shows additional info as well?

[commongrounder]

rsjsouza That's interesting.  I think you are right.  The scope stays in this enhanced info mode until you do a power cycle, so I'll have to compare the next time, unless someone else reports back first.

IDEngineer Congrats on achieving the magic screen!  I think someone posted the latest firmware here, but RIGOLNA responds automatically with the firmware if you fill out the request form on their web site.

[rsjsouza]

rsjsouza That's interesting.  I think you are right.  The scope stays in this enhanced info mode until you do a power cycle, so I'll have to compare the next time, unless someone else reports back first.

Hah, it does show additional info. Just captured a screenshot after a power cycle.

[IDEngineer]

So apparently the magic sequence sets a flag somewhere, and it's referenced by multiple display functions. Great to know! That's the kind of wisdom that sites like this make available. Thanks!

[hendorog]

Is it my impression or the Self Test Info button shows additional info as well?

Nice find. 

FWIW My temp is quite a bit lower: 32 degC

[IDEngineer]

Quick question: I can't find where I can set the pretrigger percentage. It appears that the default is the standard "50%", i.e. when the trigger occurs the trigger event is halfway through memory, 50% of the memory contains the events leading up to the trigger, and 50% contains the events occurring after the trigger.

DSO's generally allow you to adjust that threshold. For example, the specific problem I'm working on right now doesn't care about pretrigger data. Nothing that happens before the trigger is important. But it would be VERY helpful to use all available memory to store data AFTER the trigger, because the events in question can take 5-10 seconds to complete. So I would like to set the pretrigger threshold to 0%, thus dedicating all available sample memory to posttrigger information.

I haven't been able to find how to do that in the manual. Anyone know where this is hiding? Thanks!

[IDEngineer]

Got an answer from Rigol's tech support, and it's better than I expected.

The past scopes I've used this way have you set the pre/post trigger threshold as a percentage in the menu system. The trigger position marker at the top of the screen is used AFTER memory has been filled, to show where you are viewing. Rigol uses that marker to also set the pre/post trigger relationship - just dial in where you want the trigger to be in memory, take your sample, and that's what you get. Then you can move the trigger around like usual while examining the results.

Moving the trigger marker all the way left, for example, gives you 100% post-trigger data (my original goal). Moving it all the way to the right gives you 100% pre-trigger data. And so forth. Very handy and user friendly, requiring no menus at all.

Nicely done, Rigol! 

[Wuerstchenhund]

Moving the trigger marker all the way left, for example, gives you 100% post-trigger data (my original goal). Moving it all the way to the right gives you 100% pre-trigger data. And so forth. Very handy and user friendly, requiring no menus at all.

Nicely done, Rigol! 

It's not that special. This is how it works for other DSOs, and has been for a really long time, so all Rigol did was copying the functionality.

[hendorog]

Do other scopes allow the trigger to be anchored (e.g. to the left or right edge of the screen) when changing timebase?

It a pain to keep adjusting the trigger position all the time.

[tautech]

Do other scopes allow the trigger to be anchored (e.g. to the left or right edge of the screen) when changing timebase?

It a pain to keep adjusting the trigger position all the time.

See post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-msosds2000-series/msg755152/#msg755152

[hendorog]

Do other scopes allow the trigger to be anchored (e.g. to the left or right edge of the screen) when changing timebase?

It a pain to keep adjusting the trigger position all the time.

See post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-msosds2000-series/msg755152/#msg755152

Sorry I'm not seeing anything related there, are you saying that the new SDS2k firmware support this

[Karel]

Do other scopes allow the trigger to be anchored (e.g. to the left or right edge of the screen) when changing timebase?

It a pain to keep adjusting the trigger position all the time.

Straight from the MSO/DS2000A User's Guide:

Horizontal Reference
Horizontal reference is the reference position according to which the screen
waveform is expanded or compressed horizontally when adjusting HORIZONTAL
SCALE. In Y-T mode and the delayed sweep is disabled, press MENU HorRef
in the horizontal control area (HORIZONTAL) at the front panel to select the desired
reference mode and the default is "Center".
Note: This function is not available in X-Y mode and Roll mode as well as in Y-T mode
when the delayed sweep is enabled.
1.
Center
When changing the horizontal time base, the waveform is expanded or
compressed horizontally around the center of the screen.
2.
Trig Pos
When changing the horizontal time base, the waveform is expanded or
compressed horizontally around the trigger point.
3.
User
When changing the horizontal time base, the waveform is expanded or
compressed horizontally around the user-defined reference position.

[hendorog]

Do other scopes allow the trigger to be anchored (e.g. to the left or right edge of the screen) when changing timebase?

It a pain to keep adjusting the trigger position all the time.

Straight from the MSO/DS2000A User's Guide:

Horizontal Reference
...

Brilliant, thanks! I just checked and the DS4k works the same 

[IDEngineer]

It's not that special. This is how it works for other DSOs, and has been for a really long time, so all Rigol did was copying the functionality

Hmm... not sure what other scope I was using that didn't do it this way, but glad it works this way on the Rigol.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Do other scopes allow the trigger to be anchored (e.g. to the left or right edge of the screen) when changing timebase?

No, and it wouldn't make sense. The trigger can't be "anchored" to the screen, the trigger is already "anchored" to the trigger event. The trigger line then allows you to change the position of the display window on the time line relative to the trigger point. On most scopes the reference of the display window is in the middle (i.e. with a trigger line set at +0us (zero) the trigger event will be in the middle of the screen).

By changing the timebase you're changing the time interval per graticule unit, which also means you'll also change the distance of the trigger line to the display window reference if the trigger line is set to anything else than zero.

[hendorog]

Do other scopes allow the trigger to be anchored (e.g. to the left or right edge of the screen) when changing timebase?

No, and it wouldn't make sense. The trigger can't be "anchored" to the screen, the trigger is already "anchored" to the trigger event. The trigger line then allows you to change the position of the display window on the time line relative to the trigger point. On most scopes the reference of the display window is in the middle (i.e. with a trigger line set at +0us (zero) the trigger event will be in the middle of the screen).

By changing the timebase you're changing the time interval per graticule unit, which also means you'll also change the distance of the trigger line to the display window reference if the trigger line is set to anything else than zero.

The way I was thinking about it was;
The trigger position is by default a time delta relative to the reference position in the centre of the screen.
Because the units are time, changing the timebase changes the position of the trigger.
However if the units of the delta could be change to screen pixels then changing the timebase would not change the trigger position.

Of course this is now moot, given that the reference position is moveable as Karel explained.

[IDEngineer]

Got the bundle unlock code today. Went to Rigol's (China) website, entered the data, got the resulting .LIC file, put it on a USB stick, stuck it in the scope, answered "YES", and bam - all options "Official" and "Never Expires"! Couldn't have been easier unless they sent someone here to feed me peeled grapes while they installed it for me.