Brymen multimeters leading zeros

[dcac]

I'm interested in buying the Brymen BM869s as a nice upgrade to my much older 3.5 digit multimeters.

But there's one thing that puzzles me, the Brymen seems to display leading zeros like: 4.75 is displayed as 04.75 or 004.75. Is this feature/annoyance adjustable, I feel very used to expecting the decimal point to appear right after the first zero and I could possibly interpret it as 0.475 or 0.0475 especially if I'm using other meters at the same time.

Is there a reason for displaying the none significant zeros? It doesn't seem to be very common on handheld multimeters anyway.

[Lightages]

It is not just a Brymen thing. I have Uni-Ts that show leading zeros and some that don't. I have a Fluke that shows leading zeros.  I have never even noticed until you mentioned it. I had to go check my meters. I am not belittling your observation or concern, it's just never been even in my consciousness.

[dcac]

Well, not having used many high count meters I noticed it right away. But probably something to get used to.   

Which Fluke/Uni-T meters did you notice it on?

Do you know if they have a setting to change this behaviour?

[Lightages]

Sorry, I don't feel like looking at all my meters and counting which do which. I can tell you that none of them have any way of changing the behavior.

[dcac]

Sorry, I don't feel like looking at all my meters and counting which do which.

sorry, I never suggested you should do that, as you mentioned you've noticed leading zeros on Uni-T and Fluke I was hoping you could tell me which models, that all.

[IanB]

I'm interested in buying the Brymen BM869s as a nice upgrade to my much older 3.5 digit multimeters.

But there's one thing that puzzles me, the Brymen seems to display leading zeros like: 4.75 is displayed as 04.75 or 004.75. Is this feature/annoyance adjustable, I feel very used to expecting the decimal point to appear right after the first zero and I could possibly interpret it as 0.475 or 0.0475 especially if I'm using other meters at the same time.

Is there a reason for displaying the none significant zeros? It doesn't seem to be very common on handheld multimeters anyway.

This is a function of the meter resolution and the selected range for display. It is a normal thing on all DMMs from the cheapest to the most expensive.

For example, if the meter has a 5000 count display then in the lowest range it can display values from 0.001 to 5.000. If you increase the measurement above 5.000 the meter will switch to the next highest range where it can display values from 00.01 to 50.00. Therefore a value of 5.5 will be displayed as 05.50 because it doesn't fit into the lower range.

The 50000 count BM869s is actually quite good as it will go all the way up to 5.2999 before it switches up to the next range.

But anyway the short answer is that all meters do it, it's just how they work.

[retiredcaps]

Here is an example of some of the older Fluke 80 models that have a leading zero. (from modemhead's blog)

http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/f83_00-2/F83_006.JPG

http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/f83_00-2/F83_008.JPG

[P90]

Now I have to go check all my meters...

[dcac]

I'm interested in buying the Brymen BM869s as a nice upgrade to my much older 3.5 digit multimeters.

But there's one thing that puzzles me, the Brymen seems to display leading zeros like: 4.75 is displayed as 04.75 or 004.75. Is this feature/annoyance adjustable, I feel very used to expecting the decimal point to appear right after the first zero and I could possibly interpret it as 0.475 or 0.0475 especially if I'm using other meters at the same time.

Is there a reason for displaying the none significant zeros? It doesn't seem to be very common on handheld multimeters anyway.

This is a function of the meter resolution and the selected range for display. It is a normal thing on all DMMs from the cheapest to the most expensive.

For example, if the meter has a 5000 count display then in the lowest range it can display values from 0.001 to 5.000. If you increase the measurement above 5.000 the meter will switch to the next highest range where it can display values from 00.01 to 50.00. Therefore a value of 5.5 will be displayed as 05.50 because it doesn't fit into the lower range.

The 50000 count BM869s is actually quite good as it will go all the way up to 5.2999 before it switches up to the next range.

But anyway the short answer is that all meters do it, it's just how they work.

Thanks for your reply, yeah it starting to make some sense now I just checked with two of my old (1988-90) vintage meters and yes they do show (one) leading zero i.e. 00.5mV. Funny I've never really thought about that as it always been that way. And now with the much higher count on the BM869 display there can be two or more leading zeros and that just felt so alien to me.

Better look out for that decimal point then.

Thanks again!

[IanB]

Thanks for your reply, yeah it starting to make some sense now I just checked with two of my old (1988-90) vintage meters and yes they do show (one) leading zero i.e. 00.5mV. Funny I've never really thought about that as it always been that way. And now with the much higher count on the BM869 display there can be two or more leading zeros and that just felt so alien to me.

I think there won't normally be two leading zeros. As you go up through the ranges you will see 0.0000 to 5.0000, then 05.001 to 50.000, then 050.01 to 500.00, then 0500.1 to 1000.0. The only way to see two leading zeros would be to turn off auto-ranging and manually force the meter into a higher range.

[dcac]

Thanks for your reply, yeah it starting to make some sense now I just checked with two of my old (1988-90) vintage meters and yes they do show (one) leading zero i.e. 00.5mV. Funny I've never really thought about that as it always been that way. And now with the much higher count on the BM869 display there can be two or more leading zeros and that just felt so alien to me.

I think there won't normally be two leading zeros. As you go up through the ranges you will see 0.0000 to 5.0000, then 05.001 to 50.000, then 050.01 to 500.00, then 0500.1 to 1000.0. The only way to see two leading zeros would be to turn off auto-ranging and manually force the meter into a higher range.

I've seen (on videos) some meters i.e. the Extech EX330 show 005.1mV in Auto mode, not sure if the Brymen BM869 did the same though, I think so but can't find that video again, but possibly it wasn't in auto mode at that time.

[IanB]

I've seen (on videos) some meters i.e. the Extech EX330 show 005.1mV in Auto mode, not sure if the Brymen BM869 did the same though, I think so but can't find that video again, but possibly it wasn't in auto mode at that time.

Well yes, you are right. On the mV range the BM869 reads from 000.00 mV up to 500.00 mV, so you could see a reading like 004.93 mV.

[P90]

I just checked a few of my flukes and brymans and they show leading zeros, not my UEI though, it only displays a single zero. I never payed attention to it before.

[newbrain]

Another small sample here.
Fluke 87V: no leading zeroes (both in 6000 & 20000 count modes)
Uni-T 61D: leading zeroes are always displayed.

[jesuscf]

The BM869s shows one leading zero.

[electr_peter]

I would guess the logic behind logic zeros is that reading (digits) and decimal point are somewhat independent of each other (from display IC perspective). Thus, just showing leading zeros and not taking into account decimal point position is a much simpler solution than suppressing zeros.
DMM logic is something like this:

• set input signal range
• scale input signal by a set range
• sample scaled signal with ADC. ADC always gives unit-less answer in a fixed range (for example, 0-2000 or 0-50000)
• take ADC value and display it on LCD
• based on range, set decimal point and LCD marks (V, mV, etc.)

If internal ADC signal is close to 0 or equals to zero, it is smart to add leading zeros just in case. So "0" is showed as "0000" on display which looks reasonable with any decimal point position: "0000", "000.0", "00.00", "0.000". It requires extra logic to show proper "   0", "  0.0", " 0.00", "0.000".

I prefer DMMs and other instruments to not show unnecessary leading zeros, because I find it misleading and inconsistent. If you press "0" "0" "decimal point" "5" "3" on any calculator, you should get "0.53" as an answer, not "00.53".

Agilent/Keysight U1272A does not show extra leading zeros.

[MartinX]

This is not something I have thought about but I checked some of my meters, Brymen257s shows leading zeros so does Fluke27, Extech EX505, old Mastech. Only meter I found consistently  blanking zeros was DER EE DE-5203, even measuring 1,5V battery on 1000V range resulted in 1,5V no zeros.

[Ordinaryman1971]

I just checked a few of my flukes and brymans and they show leading zeros, not my UEI though, it only displays a single zero. I never payed attention to it before.

I'm pretty sure you meant Brymens.....

[P90]

I just checked a few of my flukes and brymans and they show leading zeros, not my UEI though, it only displays a single zero. I never payed attention to it before.

I'm pretty sure you meant Brymens.....

No,  they're Bryman, I must have got Chinese knockoffs...                 

[dcac]

Thank you all for your input.

It seems more or less that the ‘normal’ behaviour for meters is/was to show leading zeros, but it wasn’t that noticeable with the old 3 1/2 digit displays. But as the meter count increased some meters now show decimal values with several leading zeros and that’s what caught my attention in the first place. Some manufactures on some models have opted to blank the extra zeros out for a cleaner readout. But I guess the display size and 'font’ and how well the decimal point stand out is what really matters and i.e. BM869s seems pretty good in this respect, though I would have preferred if it blanked the zeros or had an option to select what readout format you want.