Author Topic: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!  (Read 44692 times)

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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #101 on: May 05, 2017, 03:29:19 am »
how many ENOB does RTB2000 have  at 70,100,200 and 300mhz?

does it have rectangular/boxcar or gaussian/eres window  in high resolution mode?

Not really a question,more like loud thinking,the boxcar window function have perfect time domain response,no ringing,but it have ripple in freqency domain instead of the smooth curve of gaussian window.Does that mean that if I am using FFT while in high resolution boxcar mode,that the FFT will give distorted reading caused by the freqency domain ripple of the boxcar window?
Hi fonograph - I'm checking on your questions.  And I'm 99% sure we use boxcar averaging for our High-res mode, but given we also use noise shaping and filtering (HD mode) in some of our higher-end instruments, I thought I'd better check. 

-Rich
 
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Offline Fgrir

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #102 on: May 05, 2017, 05:54:50 am »
Just got my RTB2004 and I think I might be falling in love  :D

That said, let me throw my share of bugs (FW ver. 01.204) into the pile:

Logic channel labels don't move with their traces when the screen gets vertically rescaled, e.g. when enabling/disabling measurements/history/etc.  Analog channel labels move correctly, it just seems to be the logic labels affected.  Repositioning the logic group with the vertical position knob redraws the labels with correct alignment.  Scaling the logic group with the vertical scale knob corrects the misalignment on all but the topmost logic channel.

FFT source select in touchscreen will not pop up a list of choices if only one analog channel is enabled.  OK, that generally makes sense unless the currently selected FFT source is not the enabled channel.  To recreate this:
Enable Channel 1 only.
Enable FFT on Channel 1.
Disable Channel 1.
Enable Channel 2.
FFT source is still Channel 1, and source select touch menu will not allow change.  Knob must be turned to select Channel 2.

When the scope is in run mode and normal trigger mode the acquired waveform is sometimes lost without a trigger when changing horizontal scale.  I suppose I need to train myself to hit stop or use Zoom when I want to look more closely at a triggered waveform.

Lastly, a suggestion to show the trace labels alongside the channel names in channel select menus - there is certainly enough space.  If I've gone through the trouble of labeling 16 logic channels it would be nice to be able to choose which one to use as a trigger source by name rather than number, especially since the channel select list tends to cover up the labels on the screen.

 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #103 on: May 06, 2017, 12:24:33 am »
Thanks everyone for submitting the bugs/enhancements.  R&D is aware of them all. 

A couple comments:

1.  Many of the bugs/defects are fixed in an upcoming release.  As soon as it is out, I'll post a link and let everyone know what has been fixed.  Please don't hesitate to let me know if you see an issue. 
2.  With respect to enhancements, we love to hear ideas on how to make the scope better.  We clearly can't implement everything, but definitely appreciate you taking the time to give the feedback.

Thanks again!

-Rich
 
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Offline Pinkus

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #104 on: May 06, 2017, 01:26:05 am »
This is nice to hear.
I would strongly vote for having duplex Uart and SPI decoders (showing both directions of the communication at once). A decoder with only Rx or Tx is outdated. This great scope deserves better. Even the new $350 Siglent coming with FREE decoders can do this.
If you tell me that this will be implemented (or alternatively a total of 3 or 4 one-way decoders) I would purchase the scope right away.
 
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Offline fonograph

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #105 on: May 06, 2017, 06:00:18 pm »
How many extra bits can you get in high res mode? 2? 6??  Can you set how many extra bits you get or is it automatic? Like can I decide if I halve the samplerate for aditional half bit or 4096x lower samplerate for 6 extra bits
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #106 on: May 07, 2017, 03:51:34 am »
How many extra bits can you get in high res mode? 2? 6??  Can you set how many extra bits you get or is it automatic? Like can I decide if I halve the samplerate for aditional half bit or 4096x lower samplerate for 6 extra bits
Hi fonograph - you can get up to 16-bits (so 6 additional).  It is handled automatically.

-Rich
 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #107 on: May 07, 2017, 08:24:53 am »
Hi Rich,

I know you're a scope guy but would it be possible for you to help in locating the full service manual to the SMIQ series RF Vector Sig Gens?
All we can find is a service manual that is missing the schematics and part placements.   we would be extremely helpfull to those of us picking them up on ebay.  Most seem to have ALC or level problems so even it is was the IQCON and IQMOD boards that would help so much.

understand if it's not you area and can't help but thought I would ask?
Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #108 on: May 07, 2017, 11:38:07 am »
Hi Rich,

I know you're a scope guy but would it be possible for you to help in locating the full service manual to the SMIQ series RF Vector Sig Gens?
All we can find is a service manual that is missing the schematics and part placements.   we would be extremely helpfull to those of us picking them up on ebay.  Most seem to have ALC or level problems so even it is was the IQCON and IQMOD boards that would help so much.

understand if it's not you area and can't help but thought I would ask?
I'll see what I can find!

-Rich
 

Online Specmaster

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #109 on: May 08, 2017, 01:00:09 am »
Hi Rich,

Not sure if you can help me out here or not but I have been advised that I should at least ask you so here goes.

I have just aquired a Hameg HM 408-1A storage scope which has a few problems to sort out electronically, but they can wait until I see if I can fix other more important issues with the mechanics, no point in resolving the electronics if I can't control the thing is there?

Can you advise me as to where I might be able to source the nylon flexible couplings that sit between the Intensity, Focus, Readout Focus and the Volts / Division controls and the knobs? I also could do with but not essential, are the grey key caps for the Y Pos I and Y Position II, just the push in caps?

There is a thread open regarding this restoration here  http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hameg-408-1a/ which has a photo of the flexible couplings in question.

I'll understand if you can't help, but like I said, you was recommended to me as your company took over Hameg.

Who let Murphy in?
 

Offline Martin.M

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #110 on: May 08, 2017, 04:39:40 am »
hello Rich,

this was only for smiling. In the good old time the Tek Oldies was sold in germany by the general distribution of R+S, so they all have the silver label on the case  :)
The picture is from a SONY-Tek, made in Japan with american parts and sold / serviced  here in germany by R+S. That little portable  scope is build 1967.
I have also a glowing Telequipment scope in my collection what have the label from Rohde+Schwarz Vertriebs-GmbH

greetings
Martin

« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 04:41:31 am by Martin.M »
 
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Offline grouchobyte

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #111 on: May 08, 2017, 05:07:40 am »
Hello Rich

Got a demo unit of the RTB 2004 for a week. Nice scope. However, it needs more work.

Pros:
-crisp clear and readable big screen
-touch screen is nice
-works well alternately with a mouse
-web interface is nicely implemented and works well
-UI is decent for R&S......legacy RS UIs not so wonderful
-uber quiet and uber fast boot times
- color changing channel lights for trigger source and vertical channel selection is very handy and intuitive

Cons
-slow and laggy-response to button pushes, knob turns, etc
- qutesy fade/ roll in roll out menu stuff belongs on an iphone
-slow update rate- below average for this scope class()
-annotation feature is like a VGA-era paint program. Good for a kindergarten scope class
-no useful waveform and data output other that CSV
- no math functions other than +/-/ mult and div
-no built-in 50 ohm termination
-encoder detents on some controls like trigger and vert/hor pos are annoying
- cheap enclosure
-numerous measurements like the attached for a 10 bit front end.....shameful....especially w/ fast low level signals
ie: Can't measure Tr and Tf on a 10nS, 7mV pulse.....???
- FFT measurement no better than the competition and lacks flexibility like RTE series

I mostly use my DSOX3104A, but the small screen, lack of mouse and touch capability has me wanting something more for engineering work since the buttons and select knob get annoying to use after some time

And for upwards of $7K US fully loaded RTB with options..... which you call "entry level" you have to be friggin kidding!




@grouchobyte
(Former Tektronix design engineer and HP Applications engineer-06 group Loveland CO 1970's)

« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 11:00:43 am by grouchobyte »
 

Offline Martin.M

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #112 on: May 08, 2017, 05:16:25 am »
my Rohde+Schwarz FER Bn.4721 count only up to 20.000 pcs/sec. Is there an update to make it faster?  :)

here is the video, counting a test signal of 1kHz:  http://www.wellenkino.de/fer/fer-1.AVI

greetings
Martin

 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #113 on: May 08, 2017, 10:39:45 am »
Hi Rich,

Not sure if you can help me out here or not but I have been advised that I should at least ask you so here goes.

I have just aquired a Hameg HM 408-1A storage scope which has a few problems to sort out electronically, but they can wait until I see if I can fix other more important issues with the mechanics, no point in resolving the electronics if I can't control the thing is there?

Can you advise me as to where I might be able to source the nylon flexible couplings that sit between the Intensity, Focus, Readout Focus and the Volts / Division controls and the knobs? I also could do with but not essential, are the grey key caps for the Y Pos I and Y Position II, just the push in caps?

There is a thread open regarding this restoration here  http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hameg-408-1a/ which has a photo of the flexible couplings in question.

I'll understand if you can't help, but like I said, you was recommended to me as your company took over Hameg.
I'll see what I can find out!

-Rich
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #114 on: May 08, 2017, 10:45:15 am »
my Rohde+Schwarz FER Bn.4721 count only up to 20.000 pcs/sec. Is there an update to make it faster?  :)

here is the video, counting a test signal of 1kHz:  http://www.wellenkino.de/fer/fer-1.AVI

greetings
Martin
That is awesome too!  You've got some great equipment.  :-+  My oldest gear is a Tek 2465 and one of HP's first logic analyzers.  Don't use them much any more, but I'm a fan of fun, older gear. 

-Rich
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #115 on: May 08, 2017, 10:47:40 am »
Hello Rich

Got a demo unit of the RTB 2004 for a week. Nice scope. However, it needs more work.

Pros:
-crisp clear and readable big screen
-touch screen is nice
-works alternately with a mouse
-web interface is nicely implemented and works well
-UI is decent for R&S......legacy RS UIs not so wonderful
-uber quiet and uber fast boot times
- color changing channel lights for trigger source and vertical channel selection is very handy and intuitive

Cons
-slow and laggy-response to button pushes, knob turns, etc
- qutesy fade in fade out stuff belongs on an iphone
-slow update rate- below average for this scope classs
-annotation feature is like a VGA-era paint program
-no useful waveform and data output other that CSV
- no math functions other than +/-/ mult and div
-no built-in 50 ohm termination
-encoder detents are annoying
- cheap enclosure
-numerous measurements like the attached for a 10 bit front end.....shameful....especially fast low level signals
ie: Can't measure Tr and Tf on a 10nS, 7mV pulse.....???
- FFT measurement is no better than the competition


And for upwards of $7K fully loaded with options..... which you call "entry level" you have to be friggin kidding!


@grouchobyte
(Former Tektronix design engineer and HP Applications engineer-06 group Loveland, 1970's)
Hi grouchobyte - thanks for taking a look at the RTB and I appreciate the feedback (both positive and negative). 

-Rich
 

Offline Martin.M

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #116 on: May 09, 2017, 02:44:00 am »
this is the fat SWOB III  :)
full extendet, up to 1.25GHz
I use it sometimes for sweeping L+C


« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 02:46:01 am by Martin.M »
 
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Offline Martin.M

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #117 on: May 09, 2017, 03:00:56 am »
I have restorated this cute shortwave receiver, it`s the very heavy Rohde+Schwarz EK07D  (weight 66kg)   :)
the oldest R+S here is the RC generator SRV, from a time the name of the Manufacturing was Dr-Rohde + Dr. Schwarz

« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 03:03:03 am by Martin.M »
 
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Offline GameProgrammer79

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #118 on: May 10, 2017, 06:58:20 am »
hi Rich, I wanted to buy a RTB2004. Contacted local R&S sales many times. When I could finally reach out to someone, they directed me to a small company. R&S sales can't sale it to me :rant:. The quotation I received from small company for the base model is almost $600 more than the recommended market price in Europe and in US :wtf:  :clap:

Btw I'm live in sunny Dubai.

I am not at all happy with the R&S sales here, upset with the way they treat customers. I am skeptical about the after sales support as well. On the other hand Keysight distributor was really easy to reach out, they were transparent with their pricing as well. They also sent me a price which is reasonable about 10% above the price in US / Europe assuming they import from Europe. 

I know you are looking after US and Canada, probably you can direct my query to the right person. Probably you can direct my query to right person in R&S sales who would give me a reasonable quotation.


« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 07:07:15 am by GameProgrammer79 »
Folks I am getting back in Electronics game after 18 odd years :)
 

Offline kaz911

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #119 on: May 10, 2017, 07:36:57 am »
hi Rich, I wanted to buy a RTB2004. Contacted local R&S sales many times. When I could finally reach out to someone, they directed me to a small company. R&S sales can't sale it to me :rant:. The quotation I received from small company for the base model is almost $600 more than the recommended market price in Europe and in US :wtf:  :clap:

Btw I'm live in sunny Dubai.

I am not at all happy with the R&S sales here, upset with the way they treat customers. I am skeptical about the after sales support as well. On the other hand Keysight distributor was really easy to reach out, they were transparent with their pricing as well. They also sent me a price which is reasonable about 10% above the price in US / Europe assuming they import from Europe. 

I know you are looking after US and Canada, probably you can direct my query to the right person. Probably you can direct my query to right person in R&S sales who would give me a reasonable quotation.


I had same experience with R&S when I lived in the UAE :) both indirect AND dealing direct with the German HQ looking after the Middle East.

But in general the UAE - most imported products are overpriced by 20-30%. It is mostly due to the way the UAE protects "distributors" - that means they can charge more or less what they want because there will never be competition on the same brand. (In UAE to be an official distributor of a product you have to hold a UAE Passport or company have to be 100% Emirati owned)

Many western companies was not aware of that when they handed out distributorships in the early days when they did not count the UAE market for anything. And if the Emirati was smart and registered his distributor rights - it is very hard for the western company to get rid of the distributor unless there are very serious breach of contract. But now it means little competition and prices well above even European prices incl VAT despite (still?) no VAT and only 5% import duty.

I therefore learned to import from the USA and found the most efficient "trade routes" with shipping agents.
 
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Offline BBBbbb

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #120 on: May 10, 2017, 08:24:23 am »
Many western companies was not aware of that when they handed out distributorships in the early days when they did not count the UAE market for anything. And if the Emirati was smart and registered his distributor rights - it is very hard for the western company to get rid of the distributor unless there are very serious breach of contract.
Not just UAE, but generally it's very hard to bypass local distributors in Middle East region, they are very protected. Many influential companies have tried in the past 10yrs since the market is into premium products only to go as far as a representative office, i.e. marketing influence and better insight for more accurate sales forecasts.
 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #121 on: May 10, 2017, 11:54:45 pm »
hi Rich, I wanted to buy a RTB2004. Contacted local R&S sales many times. When I could finally reach out to someone, they directed me to a small company. R&S sales can't sale it to me :rant:. The quotation I received from small company for the base model is almost $600 more than the recommended market price in Europe and in US :wtf:  :clap:

Btw I'm live in sunny Dubai.

I am not at all happy with the R&S sales here, upset with the way they treat customers. I am skeptical about the after sales support as well. On the other hand Keysight distributor was really easy to reach out, they were transparent with their pricing as well. They also sent me a price which is reasonable about 10% above the price in US / Europe assuming they import from Europe. 

I know you are looking after US and Canada, probably you can direct my query to the right person. Probably you can direct my query to right person in R&S sales who would give me a reasonable quotation.
Sorry for my slow response.  In general, this definitely wouldn't be my area of expertise and it sounds like there are some unique items for the Middle East (based on the posts of the other folks), but I'll see if I can find anything else out for you as well.  And sorry for the trouble  :-\

-Rich
 
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Offline GameProgrammer79

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #122 on: May 11, 2017, 10:25:02 am »
Quote
I had same experience with R&S when I lived in the UAE :) both indirect AND dealing direct with the German HQ looking after the Middle East.

But in general the UAE - most imported products are overpriced by 20-30%. It is mostly due to the way the UAE protects "distributors" - that means they can charge more or less what they want because there will never be competition on the same brand. (In UAE to be an official distributor of a product you have to hold a UAE Passport or company have to be 100% Emirati owned)

Many western companies was not aware of that when they handed out distributorships in the early days when they did not count the UAE market for anything. And if the Emirati was smart and registered his distributor rights - it is very hard for the western company to get rid of the distributor unless there are very serious breach of contract. But now it means little competition and prices well above even European prices incl VAT despite (still?) no VAT and only 5% import duty.

I therefore learned to import from the USA and found the most efficient "trade routes" with shipping agents.

Ah I now know the true story.. yes this is something cant be corrected. But as you hinted, it is perfectly fine to import things of interest following local rules. I bet even after paying the import duty (ideally import duty should be free as I work in free zone) of 7% still it will be cheaper than local prices. Do you know if R&S provides global warranty ? probably it is a question for Rich  :)

Rich, do you know if R&S products specifically RTB2004 is covered under global warranty ?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 10:28:24 am by GameProgrammer79 »
Folks I am getting back in Electronics game after 18 odd years :)
 

Offline GameProgrammer79

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #123 on: May 11, 2017, 10:27:03 am »
hi Rich, I wanted to buy a RTB2004. Contacted local R&S sales many times. When I could finally reach out to someone, they directed me to a small company. R&S sales can't sale it to me :rant:. The quotation I received from small company for the base model is almost $600 more than the recommended market price in Europe and in US :wtf:  :clap:

Btw I'm live in sunny Dubai.

I am not at all happy with the R&S sales here, upset with the way they treat customers. I am skeptical about the after sales support as well. On the other hand Keysight distributor was really easy to reach out, they were transparent with their pricing as well. They also sent me a price which is reasonable about 10% above the price in US / Europe assuming they import from Europe. 

I know you are looking after US and Canada, probably you can direct my query to the right person. Probably you can direct my query to right person in R&S sales who would give me a reasonable quotation.
Sorry for my slow response.  In general, this definitely wouldn't be my area of expertise and it sounds like there are some unique items for the Middle East (based on the posts of the other folks), but I'll see if I can find anything else out for you as well.  And sorry for the trouble  :-\

-Rich

Thanks for looking into my query ..  :) ^-^
Folks I am getting back in Electronics game after 18 odd years :)
 

Offline fonograph

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!
« Reply #124 on: May 11, 2017, 11:12:48 pm »
this is not oscilloscope question but I will try anyway.The HMF2550 arbitrary function generator,if I have PWM carrier,and I want to module it with sinewave,what is the highest freqency that modulating sinewave can be? Also what is the maximum PWM carrier freqency?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 11:35:15 pm by fonograph »
 


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