Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!

[2N3055]

@Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

Hello Rich!

I have a few questions about RTM3004 that are not very clear in datasheets, if you don't mind clarifying it for me.

1. RTM3000/4000 don't seem to have VGA/HDMI monitor out ?  Is this permanent design decision, or is there possibility/plan that you might make some addon module (like Keysight has on dso3000)?
2. Does search function work on history buffer (segmented memory)? No mention of it anywhere that I could find. If it doesn't, that is a no purchase decision for me, and would be my recommendation to anyone not buy scope with 400 MS of history buffers and no search function on it.
If search doesn't work on  history buffer (segmented memory), is that temporary (as in: you didn't make it yet but will soon) or no plans to make that functionality?
3. Looking at the docs, it seems that there is no search whatsoever on I2C, SPI and UART protocols?  If that is true, is that decision temporary ? Surely people who would buy this scope would need this.

Thank you for you time and effort.

Best regards,

Sinisa

[mikeselectricstuff]

@Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

Hello Rich!

I have a few questions about RTM3004 that are not very clear in datasheets, if you don't mind clarifying it for me.

1. RTM3000/4000 don't seem to have VGA/HDMI monitor out ?  Is this permanent design decision, or is there possibility/plan that you might make some addon module (like Keysight has on dso3000)?

It doesn't really need it as remote front-panel via ethernet is pretty much realtime. You can use something like a RasPi with a web browser, though I'm not sure how fast this is. It would be nice if they offered a ready-to-go SD card image to do this, or maybe offered a packaged solution.
https://youtu.be/mcgJSKxj0i0?t=267

3. Looking at the docs, it seems that there is no search whatsoever on I2C, SPI and UART protocols? 

Correct

If that is true, is that decision temporary ? Surely people who would buy this scope would need this.

Does seem a strange limitation as there is search on CAN

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

Hi Rich,

I just bought two units of RTB-2002. One with MSO upgrade and 100MHz. The other one is a basic unit. I just manage to play with the basic unit at most. I think i have got some bug on the basic unit with latest firmware (02.121) :

• Day 1 - Inverse Brightness : Actually was testing enabling and immediately disabled it. but the signal intensity went very dim and it won't revert back to original state. Situation : 1st time ON device. Solution : secure erase
• Day 2 - Zoom : the vertical scale on zoom windows off by a lot (refer pic) that nothing appear on the zoom window. I need to slide down (Zoom Window) to actually see the zoomed signal while the 'Zoom Square' (Window above) is covering on un-populated area. Meanwhile, pic shown - Zoom window vertical scale start at 150.17mV while the above window start at around -100mV and end at 10mV approx. Situation : 1st time on both channel after trimming the 2nd probe. Noticed it on the square wave gen Zoom, P0. The day before i was playing with FFT. Everything went well with Zoom before this. Problem occur in the morning the other day. I always turn off the Power Source before went to sleep. Solution : secure erase

Sorry I just thought of taking pics when already on my way to 'secure erase' all settings. I need to erase two times in two days in a row after receiving the scope.  problem goes away everytime I 'secure erase' I thought the scope already been a while in the market. why there are too many bugs on my 1st two days?

Please advise.

P/S : Autoset also might be the culprit. I don't know

How do I get previous stable version firmware?

Hi Aminor - thanks for the questions.  A couple quick updates:

For the inverse brightness, we invert how the brightness works (0% is full brightness, 100% is dark) so you can see infrequent events easier.  But we maintain the intensity setting.  So if you have adjusted it to closer to 0% to be able to see the very rare events, when you switch back it will need to be adjusted in brightness the opposite way.

We know of the zoom bug.  It has been difficult to reproduce, but it is being worked.  Hopefully it will be solved in our next FW update coming later this year.

Just an FYI - secure erase is a pretty brute force method to adjust things.  In general, I'd suggest using Preset instead.  It won't adjust things like the intensity setting (you'll still have to adjust that using the multi-purpose knob), but it does bring the scope back to a known setup for most things without erasing the internal storage.

Enjoy your new scopes!

-Rich

[2N3055]

@Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

Hello Rich!

I have a few questions about RTM3004 that are not very clear in datasheets, if you don't mind clarifying it for me.

1. RTM3000/4000 don't seem to have VGA/HDMI monitor out ?  Is this permanent design decision, or is there possibility/plan that you might make some addon module (like Keysight has on dso3000)?

It doesn't really need it as remote front-panel via ethernet is pretty much realtime. You can use something like a RasPi with a web browser, though I'm not sure how fast this is. It would be nice if they offered a ready-to-go SD card image to do this, or maybe offered a packaged solution.
https://youtu.be/mcgJSKxj0i0?t=267

3. Looking at the docs, it seems that there is no search whatsoever on I2C, SPI and UART protocols? 

Correct

If that is true, is that decision temporary ? Surely people who would buy this scope would need this.

Does seem a strange limitation as there is search on CAN

Thanks for the info! Speaking of, thanks for the videos, nice work !
You have been very helpful to clarify some things about R&S scopes..

Truth is, I like RTM3000 concept, I have great admiration for R&S (and old HAMEG) as T&M company and their engineers capability to create great pieces of test equipment.
I'm on a verge of getting RTM3000 and need to clarify few more things that might seem little but they are huge.

1. Segmented memory without search is not very useful. Simple Rigol DS4000 has that for much less money.
2. Not having search on 3 most used serial protocols on the planet ? That can only be mistake... Why on earth would you do that on purpose?

If those are omissions that are not implemented yet, but will be soon, I can accept that. As I said many times before, it is CRAZY hard to make such a sophisticated product.
I would buy RTM3000 right now, if they promised (officially) that is something not yet implemented but will be soon.

If they don't have intention to implement it, I cannot use that scope for my purpose. I will have to buy something else.
It would make scope very unfit to be my primary MSO.
Of course I would still respect honesty from manufacturer to say it like it is...

So I would still like if Rich@RohdeScopesUSA would be so kind to help me make my final decision and clear this up for all of us. It would be greatly appreciated..

Best regards to all..
Sinisa

[mikeselectricstuff]

1. Segmented memory without search is not very useful. Simple Rigol DS4000 has that for much less money.

All depends what you want to do. Main advantage of segmented is to capture multiple infrequent events so you can scroll through them later, don't think I've ever had the desire to search through though, just step manually, but I can see that search would be useful for some situations.

[2N3055]

1. Segmented memory without search is not very useful. Simple Rigol DS4000 has that for much less money.

All depends what you want to do. Main advantage of segmented is to capture multiple infrequent events so you can scroll through them later, don't think I've ever had the desire to search through though, just step manually, but I can see that search would be useful for some situations.

It is very useful. Picoscope has something called DeepMeasure.. You take a capture, 100 MSa if you want, and it will go through it, measuring every single period. It will measure every rise time, period, frequency (and more) for every single period. And you can sort it,click on it to see where it is and how it looks, even export it to excel for statistical calculations.. And it will work with thousands of segments of shorter captures..
Very easy to capture something standing out. Lecroy has something similar called WaveScan..
Also on Picoscope, you can capture serial protocol bursts in segments, and decode and search through all of them..
It is very fast, automatic, no need to browse through, unless you want to....

With it's 400 MSa memory R&S is aiming at same type of work...
And if you look at it, RTM3000 has very nice search functions. But they should work for history buffers too, and simple serial protocols need to be included.
In that case I would call RTM3000 pretty much ideal scope for my work..

IF RTM3000 is not able (and wont be able) to do so, my other option is to just rely on Picoscope for MSO/Protocol decode work, and just get something simpler but fast (500 MHz +) for signal integrity work..
But it would be a shame, i kinda like it...

Regards,
Sinisa

[nctnico]

I did some testing with the RTM3004 I have here but search works on individual segments only (just like decoding). It would be nice for search and decoding to work on all the segments at once. This way you end up with one long table with events/messages you can look through.

[2N3055]

I did some testing with the RTM3004 I have here but search works on individual segments only (just like decoding). It would be nice for search and decoding to work on all the segments at once. This way you end up with one long table with events/messages you can look through.

Thanks Nctnico! That is exactly what I got from datasheet.

And Picoscope decode let you choose only current buffer or all of them.  It is not perfect, it doesn't timestamp segments, i reported that to Picotech support, they said they'll look into it.. Hardware is timestamping segments, software is just not showing it now..
Bit is very useful how it is now, at least they are all in a same place in order received. And you can search and filter.
Regards,
Sinisa

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

I did some testing with the RTM3004 I have here but search works on individual segments only (just like decoding). It would be nice for search and decoding to work on all the segments at once. This way you end up with one long table with events/messages you can look through.

Thanks Nctnico! That is exactly what I got from datasheet.

And Picoscope decode let you choose only current buffer or all of them.  It is not perfect, it doesn't timestamp segments, i reported that to Picotech support, they said they'll look into it.. Hardware is timestamping segments, software is just not showing it now..
Bit is very useful how it is now, at least they are all in a same place in order received. And you can search and filter.
Regards,
Sinisa

Hi Sinisa - sorry for the slow reply, I wanted to get an update from Munich before I answered.  As Nico confirmed, we can't search through all segments today.  Enhancements to search (for history and things like additional protocols) are being considered in the long term, but it's not something I can give a firm date/commitment on today. 

-Rich

[2N3055]

Hi Sinisa - sorry for the slow reply, I wanted to get an update from Munich before I answered.  As Nico confirmed, we can't search through all segments today.  Enhancements to search (for history and things like additional protocols) are being considered in the long term, but it's not something I can give a firm date/commitment on today. 

-Rich

Rich,
thank you so much for an honest answer. I figured you had to consult what is that you can say or promise. I hope I didn't sound like I'm pressuring you for a quick answer. I really appreciate your help and your contribution to our community here. 
Honestly, I'm on a balance here. If there was commitment that it will be added, but no hard date, because of my respect for R&S I would take that on a face value and just go and buy one, and would have waited it out.
This way, I guess i will have to reconsider my priorities and see if that is a deal breaker for me. I will tell you though ( and I know you will relay that to those that are interested ), search through history is something I expect from this class of scope (if Siglent 600 USD scope can do it ..) but I would kinda live without it. But no search on 3 most used serial protocols on a planet... That is just a mistake.
I'm sorry for being blunt, I simply call them as I see them.
Again, I thank you for your help, you're the best!
My best regards,
Sinisa

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

Hi Sinisa - sorry for the slow reply, I wanted to get an update from Munich before I answered.  As Nico confirmed, we can't search through all segments today.  Enhancements to search (for history and things like additional protocols) are being considered in the long term, but it's not something I can give a firm date/commitment on today. 

-Rich

Rich,
thank you so much for an honest answer. I figured you had to consult what is that you can say or promise. I hope I didn't sound like I'm pressuring you for a quick answer. I really appreciate your help and your contribution to our community here. 
Honestly, I'm on a balance here. If there was commitment that it will be added, but no hard date, because of my respect for R&S I would take that on a face value and just go and buy one, and would have waited it out.
This way, I guess i will have to reconsider my priorities and see if that is a deal breaker for me. I will tell you though ( and I know you will relay that to those that are interested ), search through history is something I expect from this class of scope (if Siglent 600 USD scope can do it ..) but I would kinda live without it. But no search on 3 most used serial protocols on a planet... That is just a mistake.
I'm sorry for being blunt, I simply call them as I see them.
Again, I thank you for your help, you're the best!
My best regards,
Sinisa

No apologies needed - we definitely appreciate the feedback.  And I wish I could give a firm commitment, but I'm more of the "under promise and over deliver" type.  I'd hate to set your expectations wrong and since it isn't part of our short term roadmap (think the next couple releases), I don't feel comfortable saying one way or the other.

-Rich

[glowman]

Hi Rich,

Any updates on when the next firmware update of RTB2000 would be?  I know there are so many things to iron out so, not really pressuring.  Just want to know the tentative date.

Thanks.

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

Hi Rich,

Any updates on when the next firmware update of RTB2000 would be?  I know there are so many things to iron out so, not really pressuring.  Just want to know the tentative date.

Thanks.

Hi glowman,

I don't have a firm date, but I would expect by the end of the calendar year.  I think you all will be very pleased with it 

-Rich

[aminor]

Anyone like to share their reviews on the latest update? : Firmware Version 02.202

Link : https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/my/firmware/rtb2000/

[hansibull]

Hi Rich!

In December we bought an RTB2004 at work. Since one of our main usages are protocol decoding I made sure we got the RTB-PK1 bundle as well.

I often need to decode a RS485 bus we sometimes struggle with. The messages or frames varies between 6-128 bytes. I really love the bus table, but sadly I've not figured out a way to make the bus table view the entire message, since there's no horisontal scrolling AFAIK.

This screenshot shows it quite clearly. I'm watching multiple datapackets on an RS485 bus. I'm looking at these 55-64 byte messages, but i'm not able to see the entire packet in the bus table without having to zoom in to decode the actual waveform.

Is it possible to view the entire packet content in the bus table, or is the only option(s) to either export to CSV or zoom in on the actual waveform (like I do on my Rigol DS1054Z at home)?

[nctnico]

What if you show the data as text (ASCII). It seems your messages contain text which is shorter to display than HEX data.

[hansibull]

What if you show the data as text (ASCII). It seems your messages contain text which is shorter to display than HEX data.

The problem is that the protocol is not ASCII based. The scope actually shows non ASCII characters (or control characters) as hexadecimals with 0x in front. On some messages it may help a bit, but 50+ bytes are still too long no matter what format they have in the bus table.

[mk_]

I'm really looking foward the RTB2000 series... Speaking of which: can their BW be fully upgraded from the base model? Let's say, If I'm going to buy a 70Mhz scope, can I upgrade to 300Mhz later?

Thanks!  And yes - it is fully upgradeable via key codes.  No need to return to a service center.

-Rich

Rich,

The online tool R&S License Manager is realy well hidden...

So maybe there is no shipping required to a servicecenter required but ... well, ususally I know how to use a website, but until now I i haven`t found this license-manager on the Gloris.site....

Any ideas?

Michael

[simone.pignatti]

I'm really looking foward the RTB2000 series... Speaking of which: can their BW be fully upgraded from the base model? Let's say, If I'm going to buy a 70Mhz scope, can I upgrade to 300Mhz later?

Thanks!  And yes - it is fully upgradeable via key codes.  No need to return to a service center.

-Rich

Rich,

The online tool R&S License Manager is realy well hidden...

So maybe there is no shipping required to a servicecenter required but ... well, ususally I know how to use a website, but until now I i haven`t found this license-manager on the Gloris.site....

Any ideas?

Michael

Ciao Michael, if you buy a R&S key code option we usually provide a temporary key to activate such feature, then we ship the final code by email. Our experience is that R&S take a bit of time to generate the final code.
Let me know if we can help you.

[Hydron]

Is there any possibility of getting a demo license to test before purchase? And is there an official UK price, or should I lookup via distributors?

[mk_]

Rich,

The online tool R&S License Manager is realy well hidden...

So maybe there is no shipping required to a servicecenter required but ... well, ususally I know how to use a website, but until now I i haven`t found this license-manager on the Gloris.site....

Any ideas?

Michael

Ciao Michael, if you buy a R&S key code option we usually provide a temporary key to activate such feature, then we ship the final code by email. Our experience is that R&S take a bit of time to generate the final code.
Let me know if we can help you.
[/quote]

Hi Simone

I received some kind of Licence Key via a pdf.

The url on this "Licence Keys List for unregistered licences"  - and also the url in the usermanual (#10.7)redirected me to https://gloris.rohde-schwarz.com but not to the Licence-manager. Some hours later the url in the usermanuul redirected me as it should be to the licence-manager https://extranet.rohde-schwarz.com/applic/license_management.php and now everything is at it should be.

thanks

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

Rich,

The online tool R&S License Manager is realy well hidden...

So maybe there is no shipping required to a servicecenter required but ... well, ususally I know how to use a website, but until now I i haven`t found this license-manager on the Gloris.site....

Any ideas?

Michael

Ciao Michael, if you buy a R&S key code option we usually provide a temporary key to activate such feature, then we ship the final code by email. Our experience is that R&S take a bit of time to generate the final code.
Let me know if we can help you.

Hi Simone

I received some kind of Licence Key via a pdf.

The url on this "Licence Keys List for unregistered licences"  - and also the url in the usermanual (#10.7)redirected me to https://gloris.rohde-schwarz.com but not to the Licence-manager. Some hours later the url in the usermanuul redirected me as it should be to the licence-manager https://extranet.rohde-schwarz.com/applic/license_management.php and now everything is at it should be.

thanks
[/quote]
Hi Michael - sorry of the slow response.  Looks like you have it squared away now.  I'll pass your feedback on what shows up with a license on to the team as well.

-Rich

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

Is there any possibility of getting a demo license to test before purchase? And is there an official UK price, or should I lookup via distributors?

Hi Hydron - yes, you can get a 30-day trial.  Please ping your local distributor and they can help you out (via someone at R&S UK).

-Rich

[mk_]

Hi Michael - sorry of the slow response.  Looks like you have it squared away now.  I'll pass your feedback on what shows up with a license on to the team as well.

-Rich

your and others response-time here in the forum and also via customer support from München is really fine and well within the expected time.

Michael

[RobBarter]

The software updates, including new features, R&S are providing has very much helped in narrowing down my choice for a new scope.  Now it's just between the rtb2000 vs rtm3000. 

What are the killer reasons for going for the RTM3k over the RTB2k as it seems the majority of the software features are available on both?  I don't need the 1GHz bandwidth and the sample rate of the RTB2k would probably suffice for the next couple of years.   Anything else I need to be aware of that I haven't noticed.