Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments? Let me know!

[lem_ix]

Just a friendly suggestion, please don't make any more videos like:


Sadly where I'm at no test scopes are available and I have to rely heavily on reviews and what I can find on the net. Videos of 3D models are an instant elimination as far as I'm concerned, the video should contain a scope + engineer. You have a nice application series for mostly the RTO, so please give some love to it's smaller sisters/brothers. It's nice that you're sending the new model to Dave and Mike, it seems like a great deal so I'm waiting for the reviews enthusiastically.

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

Just a friendly suggestion, please don't make any more videos like:


Sadly where I'm at no test scopes are available and I have to rely heavily on reviews and what I can find on the net. Videos of 3D models are an instant elimination as far as I'm concerned, the video should contain a scope + engineer. You have a nice application series for mostly the RTO, so please give some love to it's smaller sisters/brothers. It's nice that you're sending the new model to Dave and Mike, it seems like a great deal so I'm waiting for the reviews enthusiastically.

Very good feedback - I'll pass it on to our marketing teams.

-Rich

[irakandjii]

Hello Rich,

Can you tell us the complete list of distributors having the early bird promo in Canada/USA ? I only found a couple located in the USA (and I'm in Canada).

Thanks!
PS: Can't wait to see some reviews/first impressions.

Here is the list:

Canada:
ElectroRent (non stocking)
TestForce

USA:
Allied
Continental Resources
ElectroRent (non stocking)
MicroLease
Newark
Techni-Tool
TEquipment
Test Equity

-Rich

I have confirmed the deal is applicable to Canada through Testforce, just wish the dang exchange rate with the US would drop.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I know you said you mainly dealt with the US, but can you see if you can find out the situation re. the launch deal in Europe ( & elsewhere). I did email Jithu at R&S UK but not had a reply yet

In the UK, Farnell are listing the RTB2K-COM4 package , but at GBP4875 - it would be way cheaper to fly to the US & get one!

I have a friend here in the UK who is currently trying to throw handfuls of twenty pound notes at his screen...

[Relaxe]

Mike:

Your friend could always google for a mail forwarding service
Then, get Tequipment (or others) to ship to the forwarder.

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

Just wondering about a few use cases on the RBT2004?   
(Modification: After I wrote this I discovered the RTM documentation for "R&S RTM-K1" and R&S - K15. I read another sheet that implying that the functionally of these options are the same for the RTB, Is that the case?  If so my question is answered:) )

USE Case 1 - Long term serial decoding

With the memory upgrade of the RTB2004.  If I set the scope to 10Ks per record, the manual says I can have 13107 records.

If I am; a) using a serial trigger (Say a given address, or some pattern)  and b) assume I can fit a query response in one record based upon an assumption of approx. 2000 digital bits per record, yielding about 200 bytes of data. 

1) Are the above assumptions reasonable?

2) Is each record stored uniquely (tagged), in 10Ks chunks?  Is the serial decode information retained, or is it recalculated each time.

3) Assuming this is acting like segmented memory.  How much time can elapse between triggered events?  Basically, I want to know how long can I wait for bad stuff to happen?  I my case, want to set up and then wander over to the remote sensors etc and, stuff them in crushed dry ice, wiggle wiggle (reference for our aussie friend) them like crazy and generally try to simulate nasty conditions that would cause the noise and communication failures.  It sounds as if with 13k records I could go a very long elapsed time (well beyond my expectation, but there again ... expect the unexpected) 
I answered this by reading https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/RTB-K15_RTM-K15_Fast_ac_en_3607-1220-92_v0200.pdf

4) In the manual I see no mention of tabular representation of the decode.  Is that available?

5) I assumed from my reading that I can save the 160 Ms history to a file for storage.  If so could tests like the one above be saved for future analysis?  I am particularly concerned about how decodes are replicated.

Use case 2 The function generator bit pattern capability.

Can the scope be setup and as a Master in an SPI Master/Slave configuration to generate queries?   

If so what are the limitations?

I will continue to read through the remote control commands some more but I have a sense that the art of the possible might be very significant here.

Thanks in advance

PS Wife and daughter think I am absolutely crazy reading oscilloscope manuals...

My wife and daughter have looked at me the same way, especially when they open the garage and it is filled with oscilloscope boxes and my daughter can't get her bike out.   

With respect to your questions that are still open on Use Case 1:

Q.  Are the above assumptions reasonable?
A.  Yes.

Q.  Is each record stored uniquely (tagged), in 10Ks chunks?  Is the serial decode information retained, or is it recalculated each time.
A.  Yes, each segment has a time stamp.  I'm not sure on how the serial decode information is done - I can tell you if it isn't stored it is basically done in real-time.  As I "play" through the segments the decode instantly updates.  If you need more insights, let me know and I'll talk with the factory.

Q.  In the manual I see no mention of tabular representation of the decode.  Is that available?
A.  Yes.  Please note though that it is just for the segment decoded (or the data captured if not in segmented mode).  It doesn't bring all the data from every segment in to a single table.

Q.  I assumed from my reading that I can save the 160 Ms history to a file for storage.  If so could tests like the one above be saved for future analysis?  I am particularly concerned about how decodes are replicated.
A.  Yes, it is a very large file.  But it is just the data - the decode itself isn't saved off.  You can save off the decode separately, but it will only be for the segment displayed (if you don't use segmented you can save off the decode for the entire acq memory that you have in one capture which could decode lots of packets but may not work for you if you have huge amounts of idol time in between).

For use case 2, I haven't spent much time yet with the AWG, so I'll have to get back to you on it.

-Rich

[Gabri74]

Hi Rich, thanks for your time.

Q: If I buy in USA and have it forwarded here in Europe/Italy by some means, will the warranty be still valid ?

[salviador]

where can I buy from italy?

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

Hi Folks - I'm not connected in enough to the other regions to be able to answer all the questions off the top of my head (and like I said in my intro, I'm only focused on US/Canada), but I'll do my best to find out answers for you all.  Please be patient 

-Rich

[mikeselectricstuff]

Just had an answer from UK - the launch offer will NOT happen in Europe as none of the distributors wanted to do it. Presumably they didn't want to upset their other brands.

Have asked about warranty position on imported units.

[nctnico]

Well then hopefully the 70MHz RTB2004 model can be hacked to full options. That would get close to the launch deal prisewise.

[nowlan]

Was the new FPC1000 meant to replace the older HMS-X spec an?
Seems to be missing tracking generator.

Also what was the educational discount people mentioned earlier?
When ever I asked other manuf in the past, they wanted to get staff contact.
More a sales lead instead of an answer.

[Jackob]

Hi Rich - now when the older RTO1000 series scopes are discontinued I would suggest respectfully R&S to remember us exisiting RTO1000 customers and give a good offer for getting its SW options activated with a reasonable cost. This is what e.g. Keysight did when their DSO5000 series was discontinued (the scope I owned before RTO1004).

RTO1000 series scopes are still extremely good and usable but the options are very expensive. 

Come on R&S...

BR, Jackob

[rfbroadband]

well you can always dream. When R&S discontinued the RTO1000 model, you as a R&S customer are supposed to purchases the 2000 model and purchases all software options again. Software keycodes are not transferable.

I have a fully loaded RTO1000, trust me...

[JohnG]

Hi Rich - now when the older RTO1000 series scopes are discontinued I would suggest respectfully R&S to remember us exisiting RTO1000 customers and give a good offer for getting its SW options activated with a reasonable cost. This is what e.g. Keysight did when their DSO5000 series was discontinued (the scope I owned before RTO1004).

RTO1000 series scopes are still extremely good and usable but the options are very expensive. 

Come on R&S...

BR, Jackob

I second this. I have an RTO1024, which I both love and hate. The UI is powerful, but with a steep learning curve. Great math capabilities, great FFT, which I use, especially the math. I'm very happy with the actual waveforms and performance. I also got some very helpful technical support for a few tough measurements.

But, it takes forever to boot up, and there are odd bugs in the interface that can be very annoying, beyond it just being challenging to learn. I worry about it being orphaned.

And, I wanted to upgrade it to the RTO1044 because I have some need of 4 GHz BW, and this was a consideration when buying the scope. The price was outrageous. I would end up with still a used scope, but the quote for the upgrade was so high that I can buy a quality used 6 GHz scope with warranty and cal, and have a LOT of money left over, and two scopes. And, I fall on the side of 4 channels being barely enough, so sometimes I actually use two scopes. I guess I should have known as much, but when my employer bought the scope, I had to fight for the 2 GHz, and 4 was not in the cards at the time.

\rant{
I really hate buying scopes these days. I've been burned on Lecroy and Tek for different reasons, either bad design decisions that could not be fixed, charging big bucks for features that used to be free and are not complicated, bad UI bugs that made certain features unusable, or being forced to buy really expensive adapters that don't work all that well just to use existing probes.
}

John
John

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

Hi Rich - now when the older RTO1000 series scopes are discontinued I would suggest respectfully R&S to remember us exisiting RTO1000 customers and give a good offer for getting its SW options activated with a reasonable cost. This is what e.g. Keysight did when their DSO5000 series was discontinued (the scope I owned before RTO1004).

RTO1000 series scopes are still extremely good and usable but the options are very expensive. 

Come on R&S...

BR, Jackob

Hi Jackob - I definitely see your argument and as a customer I'd also love to have that for products I've bought that have been discontinued.  I'll feed that info back, but I have a feeling it likely won't be implemented (at least not any time soon).  Perhaps after the RTO1000 has been discontinued longer. 

If I get good news, I'll definitely come back and update everyone though.

-Rich

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

Hi Rich - now when the older RTO1000 series scopes are discontinued I would suggest respectfully R&S to remember us exisiting RTO1000 customers and give a good offer for getting its SW options activated with a reasonable cost. This is what e.g. Keysight did when their DSO5000 series was discontinued (the scope I owned before RTO1004).

RTO1000 series scopes are still extremely good and usable but the options are very expensive. 

Come on R&S...

BR, Jackob

I second this. I have an RTO1024, which I both love and hate. The UI is powerful, but with a steep learning curve. Great math capabilities, great FFT, which I use, especially the math. I'm very happy with the actual waveforms and performance. I also got some very helpful technical support for a few tough measurements.

But, it takes forever to boot up, and there are odd bugs in the interface that can be very annoying, beyond it just being challenging to learn. I worry about it being orphaned.

And, I wanted to upgrade it to the RTO1044 because I have some need of 4 GHz BW, and this was a consideration when buying the scope. The price was outrageous. I would end up with still a used scope, but the quote for the upgrade was so high that I can buy a quality used 6 GHz scope with warranty and cal, and have a LOT of money left over, and two scopes. And, I fall on the side of 4 channels being barely enough, so sometimes I actually use two scopes. I guess I should have known as much, but when my employer bought the scope, I had to fight for the 2 GHz, and 4 was not in the cards at the time.

\rant{
I really hate buying scopes these days. I've been burned on Lecroy and Tek for different reasons, either bad design decisions that could not be fixed, charging big bucks for features that used to be free and are not complicated, bad UI bugs that made certain features unusable, or being forced to buy really expensive adapters that don't work all that well just to use existing probes.
}

John
John

Hi John - thanks for the feedback.  While we may not add new features to the RTO1000 (some things can't be done with it), we will of course continue to fix bugs.  Please feel free to PM your bugs and I can make sure they are submitted.

-Rich

[lem_ix]

Hi Rich,

Is the RTB compatible with the Hameg HO3508 logic probe? Got a hmo and probably getting a second scope soon so compatibility would be nice.

[salamander123]

@JohnG
Regarding boot performance. Just buy any 2.5'' sata ssd and clone the original harddrive. Btw. R+S can also supply a usb stick with an install image. Whould be nice, if they would put it online...

[mikeselectricstuff]

Hi Rich,

Is the RTB compatible with the Hameg HO3508 logic probe? Got a hmo and probably getting a second scope soon so compatibility would be nice.

It would also be good to know if the MSO function requires a license or just depends on the probe. One scenario would be if a lab had 2 scopes, so one probe set could be swapped between them, or even use one 8 bit probe on each.
My unit does have an MSO option sticker, and is listed in the option list so I suspect the former.

[Muxr]

Hi Rich@RohdeScopesUSA! I am just a hobbyist but I am a big fan of R&S gear, I own an RTM1054 Oscilloscope and a FSEA 30 Spectrum Analyser (thanks to the ebay 2nd hand market), and I am really happy with them.

Would be awesome if some of your software unlockable features were more affordable for us hobbyists, at least on the older out of production gear (would love serial bus decoding for my RTM1054), but I understand not wanting to cannibalize your current product stack. Anyways welcome to the forum! Would love to see you send some gear to Dave to review!

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

Hi Folks - I'm checking on the MSO.  I tried it between my HMO1232 and the RTB and it didn't seem to work, but I'm getting the final details (some of my equipment is pre-released).

-Rich

[technogeeky]

Rich:

Please pass along exactly one high-five to each engineer, software developer, and artist who had involvement in the UI design details of the new RTB200x. One high-five each only, please.

If they are all congregated in a single room together, and it's ONLY the people who worked on the UI, please pass on a "f**k yeah!" from a stranger on the internet. They did a great job. I just watched Mike's video on serial decoding. [editor's note: I just watched a 50 minute video about serial decoding on a scope I have no chance of affording.] But the features they added re: serial decode and maximizing the usage of screen real estate, and the clean handling of expanding or contracting space... Just beautiful. They have done a great job.

And, whoever said that when you browse to http://the-oscilloscope you should immediately get a mirrored view of the scope, and a tab to control it too... I want you to go to the store, and buy that man a case of beer. A CASE. If you buy this man just a single beer... I have a certain set of skills, skills I have honed in years of... you know, whatever. I will find you. A CASE. OF BEER.

Great job.

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

Rich:

Please pass along exactly one high-five to each engineer, software developer, and artist who had involvement in the UI design details of the new RTB200x. One high-five each only, please.

If they are all congregated in a single room together, and it's ONLY the people who worked on the UI, please pass on a "f**k yeah!" from a stranger on the internet. They did a great job. I just watched Mike's video on serial decoding. [editor's note: I just watched a 50 minute video about serial decoding on a scope I have no chance of affording.] But the features they added re: serial decode and maximizing the usage of screen real estate, and the clean handling of expanding or contracting space... Just beautiful. They have done a great job.

And, whoever said that when you browse to http://the-oscilloscope you should immediately get a mirrored view of the scope, and a tab to control it too... I want you to go to the store, and buy that man a case of beer. A CASE. If you buy this man just a single beer... I have a certain set of skills, skills I have honed in years of... you know, whatever. I will find you. A CASE. OF BEER.

Great job.

Thank you for the very nice words!  I will absolutely pass it on to the team and the fact that you brought it up will mean a huge amount to them as I know how much they sweated the details on the GUI.

Thanks again.

-Rich

[ci11]

Hi Rich,

I wonder if you can answer this question about the RTB:

On the HMO1212, its 1mV sensitivity is a particularly important feature for my application. Combined with the 16-bit Hi-Res mode and the ability to properly trigger a 20Hz signal, it would be an ideal scope for analog work. An HMO1212 owner did a test for me to show that it can do exactly that - please see attached photo. His input is a 20Hz 400µV sine, the HMO1212 is AC coupled, BWL on and Hi-Res on.

Would you mind setting up the RTB the same way to see and show a screenshot of it doing the same - or better? Thank you very much!

Steve