Hi Rich,
Thanks for your presence here and for all of your time and efforts – it provides reassurance that R&S is serious about addressing customer needs. Sorry for the length of this post, but I really hope it helps R&S to improve a product with great potential. The RTB is so close to being a superior tool that can be relied upon for the vast majority of projects here, but at this time is still missing some critical functionality that is causing it to just miss the mark.
Recently received the first RTB2004 (with all options) and there’s another one on order. The core premise of this scope’s design, and its performance are quite excellent. Effective, innovative GUI platform and solid, clean, hardware design. The touch screen works well and user interface features like the Track Grid and Grid Annotation options are truly useful. Also, the basics of protocol decoding seem to work well, which is a commonly used function here, and definitely a nice speed improvement over the Rigols it will be attempting to replace. And, the glossy screen isn’t bothersome – it’s crisp, bright, and whatever lag there may isn’t that noticeable in operation. One of the biggest selling points was the remote access capabilities via Ethernet. Not relying on some bloated Windows app is really where things should be going, so that any OS can fully control the instrument, and the user isn’t forced to use a proprietary OS from a hostile company.
Unfortunately, there seem to be several significant feature omissions on the RTB at this point, that mean it won’t be able to fully replace even a DS1074z Rigol. Hopefully these missing features are just not understood here, there are workarounds for them, or R&S is planning on adding them. It would be a shame for folks to expect the RTB to fully replace low-end Rigols (or similar) only to discover that relatively standard features they were used to using simply don’t exist in the RTB series. Also, it might be wise for R&S to continue to flesh out the feature set of the current RTB series, rather than just hold out on them for a higher-end model that will be yet again many more times expensive than the Rigols, Siglents, etc.
So, it seems R&S are working on a number of bugs folks have already pointed out, but it’s not clear the following omissions have been mentioned yet – 3 of which are the biggest show-stoppers:
1) Vertically zooming in on a waveform with a DC offset
2) Lack of nth Edge triggering
3) UART decode speed limitation of 3 Mbps
There are quite a few other missing features on the RTB that the Rigols have, that have been frequently useful in the past, and at the least are disappointing omissions on a machine of this caliber, but aren’t quite as critical for typical projects, like other missing trigger types, limited math functions, dedicated knobs for easy, precise scrolling of large values, and other items most folks have likely come to expect in this class of scope.
So, vertical zooming – hopefully this is simply a lack of understanding of how the RTB works at my end, rather than an omission. Rigol has a feature called Vertical Expansion: Center or Ground. When set to Center, this setting allows the user to place a waveform with a DC offset in the center of the screen, and then zoom in as far as possible without the waveform disappearing off the top (or bottom for negative DC offset) each time the vertical zoom knob is turned. This function is turned on at all times here, as it saves a ton of time when the user desires to zoom in on a waveform with a DC component – without using AC input coupling -- in order to leverage the maximum possible resolution of the scope. This is used a lot to check the quality of power rails, as one example. A simple function, but in addition to saving a lot of time, it makes the instrument much less frustrating to use. On an RTB, try quickly zooming all the way in on a signal with a 5V DC offset (without using AC coupling) – you’ll begin to hate small, slippery, detented knobs, like the vertical position knob – especially if this is a function you have to perform a lot.
The second item that makes ditching the Rigols impossible is the limited trigger selection on the RTB. Most commonly used here are Edge, Pulse, Nth Edge, Video, and the various protocol triggers. There have been times when Runt, Windows, Pattern, and others are used, but less frequently. Of course hold-off is used frequently with Edge, and sometimes instead of a protocol trigger for non-clocked signals not conforming to normal UART specs.
Unfortunately, along with other trigger functions, the RTB is missing Nth Edge, Runt, Windows, and there is no hold-off in the protocol triggers that I could find. Nth Edge is used frequently here when working with protocol analysis. These are disappointing omissions, and demonstrate at least one reason the Rigol products have done so well. They cover their customers with a very useful selection of utilitarian functions, and they actually work properly (for the most part).
The third biggest issue is the limitation of 3Mbps for UART decoding. In this day and age 3Mbps is quite limiting. Though it hasn’t been fully tested here, the Rigol DS20xx has settings up to 20Mbps. To be clear, protocol decoding is less painful on the RTB than on the Rigols, but the speed limitations mean the RTB can’t be used for a lot of projects, again forcing a fall back to the Rigol.
If at the very least, along with the issues other folks have brought up, the Vertical Expansion, nth Edge trigger, and UART decode speed were addressed, I expect the Rigols would no longer be needed for most stuff (here, anyway), and the benefits of the RTB could be fully enjoyed. If it’s not likely that at least these three items will change in the near future, then it will be necessary to cancel the order for the second RTB, and to look for a more comprehensive scope that isn’t missing so many of the useful functions provided in the Rigol products. Utility wins over a beautiful UI most days of the week. It would be a shame for a wonderful instrument like the RTB to remain significantly behind the Rigol’s feature set when it’s so close to being superior overall.
Hopefully this all won’t be taken the wrong way – this scope platform has great potential, and I absolutely love using it! It’s just that right now it is lacking a number of functions we happen to depend on, that much cheaper instruments currently offer. However, it seems these might be relatively easy to fix, and I really hope R&S steps up and gives this beauty the brains it deserves!
Thanks again for your time Rich!
Current list of issues/desired improvements (these 3, at least, are major issues/limitations):
- Vertical Expansion Center/Ground (increasing vertical amplification expands with waveform in the center of the screen (don’t have to use AC input coupling[can keep track of DC offset, etc., while zooming in on the waveform])
- UART – Need speed up to 10Mbps, at least
- More trigger types – at least Nth Edge, Runt and Windows
At least some of the following, I’d imagine, should be relatively easy to address and will only make your customers happier:
- Only 4 measurements at one time.
- Graph mode to show measurement history, as on the Rigol DS2000 – incredibly useful, and would look awesome on the RTB screen!
- Give us options for larger knobs (rubber-coated?) for Vertical/Horizontal Position and Analysis – scrolling with knobs on this scope should be fun – it can actually be tedious and physically painful
- Analysis knob – acceleration needs improvement. EX: setting holdoff time – ouch!
- Idle time setting – cant see waveform while setting
- Settings windows obscure waveforms
- Cursor Delta t and 1/Delta t hidden by menus when setting up cursors
- More comprehensive mouse/Keyboard support – none of the wireless Logitechs seem to work here (M570, M185, M310, K270, K520)
- Need more math types – at least differential and integral
- AWG quite limited, esp. when comparing it’s price with something like the Siglent 2042x
- More comprehensive data-logging options
- Web UI – double-click on screen to get full-screen (controls disappear) – double-click to get back.
- Allow users to create "apps"
- User-selectable waveform colors
- User-selectable grid colors
- Cursor – snap mode (snap to edges as moved)
- More flexibility with where the screen scrolls (Trigger, user, Center, Right, Left)
- FFT – Markers – Search for next peak/low
- FFT – Waterfall (would be helpful, but not critical)
Thanks,
-- phs
edit: Remove Pulse triggering, clarification
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