Scope : wait for new models ?

[nctnico]

All modern DSO's have some shortcomings, some are substandard specs, some are bugs but the most important feature must and must always be: basic functionality must be right

I have to disagree: an oscilloscope should deliver it's specifications out of the box and if not it has to be fixed within a few weeks at most. Not years! Both Rigol and Siglent release oscilloscopes way before the firmware is at an acceptable level and need several years (>3) to make the firmware work at a level it matches the specifications.

Other people are prepared to accept 99% functionality if they can get their 'scopes for a quarter of the price and all the basics are working (wiggly lines appear on screen nicely, there's enough channels+and bandwidth).

In that case they might as well have spend their money on an old analog oscilloscope! The whole reason to buy a DSO is to get the extra features (measurements, math, decoding, etc) but if they don't work they are useless.

[EEVblog]

If the ADC is only 8 bits, why have a screen with a bazillion pixels?

It's handy to have multiple waveforms on screen at less than full scale. More vertical pixels = more detail, even for 8 bit signals.

[Fungus]

In that case they might as well have spend their money on an old analog oscilloscope!

Don't you ever get bored of pretending the DS1054Z doesn't work? 

[nctnico]

In that case they might as well have spend their money on an old analog oscilloscope!

Don't you ever get bored of pretending the DS1054Z doesn't work? 

Is your world really limited to the DS1054Z???  It seems that is the only model you know! Did I mention it in my previous statement?:
Both Rigol and Siglent release oscilloscopes way before the firmware is at an acceptable level and need several years (>3) to make the firmware work at a level it matches the specifications.
No, it seems not. Also the incomplete firmware isn't limited to low end oscilloscopes. Rigol and Siglent will happily take several $k from you and deliver a scope which doesn't work as specified so paying more isn't always the solution either.

[BravoV]

If you can afford to wait, then you don't "need" it, just wanting it, just saying.

[JanJansen]

BNCs not bolted to the chassis so they will break from the PCB at some point.

You are right, i see it now, that is very bad ( proofs nothing is perfect ).

GW Instek offers a warranty which ends 5 years after they stop producing the model. Show me a test equipment manufacturer with the same confidence in their products!

Pluspoints for GW-instek, if you buy a recent model you would have enough guarantee, nice.
Can i see that on the receipt ?, or the GW instek website ?

On a sheet, a Rigol 2072 and Hameg HMO3000 might have similar features for protocol decoders. But then you start your day and weirdness kicks in.

Exact, programming needs a lot of testing, that cost a lot of time, specs are not saying much.

R&S are a company with a lot more experience than the GoodWill Instrument Company at this sort of thing. I think they know how to mount a BNC connector.

I dont know for sure, maybe its better against noise then ?, or maybe they dont want some person to manually place the nut, must have some reason,
it looks very well soldered, i dont know how many play it has, if it is very steady then less problems, they better fix this, it will break if there is some play.

The bottom line is that solder joints are not suitable to deal with mechanical stress and surface mounted connectors are the worst by far. The Hameg HMO1000 series is clearly designed to a price point which includes minimising the amount of labour to put a scope together and Hameg has cut some corners mechanically in order to achieve that.

I think that is the case if the more expensive models has it front panel mounted.

Does Siglent fix all their bugs like Rigol has done ?

You're taking the piss, right ?

Siglent distributor saying that ?, pluspoints for the Rigol 1054Z.

If you can afford to wait, then you don't "need" it, just wanting it, just saying.

Your right, my analog scope also works,
only when i power it on, all MCUs crash, my PSU display lights up, speakers make click sound,
+ it drifts if i wanto see a pin go hi/low at audio rate (44K1Hz), and getting vague at this point.
Before i forget it is also very deep, takes a lot of space.
I also like to get started with digital communication.
Reason enough now ?

[tggzzz]

Your right, my analog scope also works,
only when i power it on, all MCUs crash, my PSU display lights up, speakers make click sound,

That's another advantage of an old scope: it demonstrates the UUT has inadequate power supplies, decoupling and EMI/EMC protection

Before i forget it is also very deep, takes a lot of space.

That's an advantage of newer equipment; how much of an advantage depends on the location.

Contrarywise, light equipment can be a disadvantage with some coaxial cables - the "tail" wags the "dog"

I also like to get started with digital communication.

Digital scopes and digital comms are orthogonal; latter doesn't require the former.

[nctnico]

GW Instek offers a warranty which ends 5 years after they stop producing the model. Show me a test equipment manufacturer with the same confidence in their products!

Pluspoints for GW-instek, if you buy a recent model you would have enough guarantee, nice.
Can i see that on the receipt ?, or the GW instek website ?

http://gwinstek.com/en-global/Page/LLW_Introduction

[JPortici]

Ok, not all China is bad, they have this reputation, India reputation is even worse i think.

Does Siglent fix all theyr bugs like Rigol has done ?

The R&S/Hameg has got HD mode ( 16 bit ), does Rigol and Siglent has this also ?

Which model are you talking about?

If the ADC is only 8 bits, why have a screen with a bazillion pixels?  Have you checked the datasheet?  Even my high resolution computer displays only have about 2000 pixels vertical.  65536 pixels?  Whatever for?

proper math/cursor/measurement? that doesn't come from shit interpolated on screen? offline analysis? distortion measurement (not from screen data of course)?

[nctnico]

IMHO so called high resolution modes are only usefull for filtering a signal. Non linearities and frequency dependant behaviour will add way more errors. 0.1dB is in the ballpark of 1% error. All in all true high resolution AD converters seem usefull for more detailed frequency domain (FFT) analysis but you have to be aware of the harmonic distortion effects of the oscilloscope's front end.

[tautech]

Does Siglent fix all their bugs like Rigol has done ?

You're taking the piss, right ?

Siglent distributor saying that ?

Pointing out a fact.............but if you're not listening. 

Ok, not all China is bad, they have this reputation, India reputation is even worse i think.

Does Siglent fix all theyr bugs like Rigol has done ?

The R&S/Hameg has got HD mode ( 16 bit ), does Rigol and Siglent has this also ?

Which model are you talking about?

If the ADC is only 8 bits, why have a screen with a bazillion pixels?  Have you checked the datasheet?  Even my high resolution computer displays only have about 2000 pixels vertical.  65536 pixels?  Whatever for?

proper math/cursor/measurement? that doesn't come from shit interpolated on screen? offline analysis? distortion measurement (not from screen data of course)?

Not all DSO's do it like that. ^

[JanJansen]

The GW instek realy looks ugly, its like new furniture in my living room.

4 channel 50MHz model without logic decoder : €550,-
4 channel 70MHz model with logic decoder : €990,-

Wow that is almost double price for a logic decoder, ok the 4 channel 70MHz is €680,- , i dont need the extra bandwidth.
What is more better in the 2000E series then the 1000B series ?

My final list :
1 : Hameg HMO1002 ( realy nice, only 2 channels )
2 : GW-instek GDS-2074E ( big & ugly, good warranty )
3 : Rigol 1054Z ( Slow boot, bad encoders & Noisey fan ( why cant they build in a better fan themselfs ?, do i realy need to void the warranty ? )

edit : How about the included probe quality of those 3 scopes ?, i dont wanto buy more stuff only 1 scope, no money to buy extra probes.

[jonovid]

when the next generation of super scope models comes out, with all wireless dc to microwave rechargeable nunchuck probes & 4k retina resolution video displays. 
 I can finally pick up a cheap Rigol , with digital "sample & hold" like Dave has in his videos , - now made obsolete with wired probes & low resolution video display.

[JanJansen]

4k retina resolution video displays.

Full HD is enough for now, for this reason i might buy a DMM first.

edit : by the way, how many latency does these scope has ?

[nctnico]

The GW instek realy looks ugly, its like new furniture in my living room.

4 channel 50MHz model without logic decoder : €550,-
4 channel 70MHz model with logic decoder : €990,-

Wow that is almost double price for a logic decoder, ok the 4 channel 70MHz is €680,- , i dont need the extra bandwidth.
What is more better in the 2000E series then the 1000B series ?

AFAIK the 2000E series has a bigger screen. Tequipment has (had?) a nice deal on the GDS2000E series which including shipping costs and VAT may be better than the price from Eleshop (it never hurts to point Eleshop at the Tequipment deal and see if they can match it).

[JanJansen]

Dont http://www.tequipment.net has EU warehouse ?, to bad.
Good to know how much i will be ripped off when buying here in EU, they better change the prices first.

Funny, they have 2065 Rigol 1054Z in stock, they sell a lot.

[tautech]

My final list :
1 : Hameg HMO1002 ( realy nice, only 2 channels )
2 : GW-instek GDS-2074E ( big & ugly, good warranty )
3 : Rigol 1054Z ( Slow boot, bad encoders & Noisey fan ( why cant they build in a better fan themselfs ?, do i realy need to void the warranty ? )

I reckon you'd be better to wait. 
(just a few months)

******* series of super-fluorescence oscilloscope, with 70M, 100MHz and 200MHz bandwidth models, sampling rate 1GSa / s, standard storage depth of 14Mpts, the most commonly used functions are user-friendly one-click design; SPO technology, The signal fidelity: the bottom noise lower than similar products in the industry, the minimum range of only 500 uV / div; innovative digital trigger system, high trigger sensitivity, trigger jitter small; waveform capture rate of up to 400,000 frames / sec (Sequence mode) Level brightness level and color temperature display; support a wealth of smart trigger; support the historical model (Sequence), sequence mode (Sequence) and enhanced resolution mode (Eres); has a wealth of measurement and mathematical operations; 1M point FFT can be more Detailed analysis of the frequency domain; 14M full sampling point measurement, without distortion of the calculated signal parameters; is a high-performance general-purpose oscilloscope.
- Channel bandwidth: 70MHz, 100MHz, 200MHz
- Real-time sampling rates up to 1GSa / s
-Next-generation SPO technology
-Waveform capture rate of 100,000 frames per second (normal mode); 400,000 frames per second          (Sequence mode)
-Support 256-level waveform brightness and color temperature display
-Storage depth up to 14Mpts
-Digital triggering system
-Smart Trigger: Edge, Slope, Pulse width, Window, Runt, Interval, Dropout, Pattern,
-Video triggering, support for HDTV
-Excellent background noise with a voltage range as low as 500uV / div
-Support for Auto Setup, Default, Cursors, Measure, Roll, History, Persist, Clear Sweeps, Math and Print   with 10 one-button shortcuts.
-Sequential mode, which divides the memory depth into 80,000 segments. According to the trigger  conditions set by the user, the event can be captured with very small dead time.
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[JPortici]

i don't see protocol decoding there?

[nctnico]

That about sums up the specs of the GW Instek GDS2000E series which you can buy today so why wait a few months (and probably a few years to fix the bugs)?

[tautech]

i don't see protocol decoding there?

It's there, I checked but didn't copy it in.

[tautech]

That about sums up the specs of the GW Instek GDS2000E series which you can buy today so why wait a few months (and probably a few years to fix the bugs)?

Yeah right. 

Waveform capture rate of 100,000 frames per second (normal mode); 400,000 frames per second (Sequence mode)

[Fungus]

That about sums up the specs of the GW Instek GDS2000E series which you can buy today so why wait a few months (and probably a few years to fix the bugs)?

But no price information so too early to say if the Instek has just been made obsolete.

[nctnico]

That about sums up the specs of the GW Instek GDS2000E series which you can buy today so why wait a few months (and probably a few years to fix the bugs)?

Waveform capture rate of 100,000 frames per second (normal mode); 400,000 frames per second (Sequence mode)

The waveform capture is the least important because it is only achieved in dot mode (nobody uses that) as very specific time/div settings. Don't fall for the hype because waveforms/seconds is like the power rating of the (combustion) engine in a car: it is only achieved in a limited RPM range.

[JPortici]

i don't see protocol decoding there?

It's there, I checked but didn't copy it in.

so... which protocols? protocol triggering?

[EEVblog]

Dont http://www.tequipment.net has EU warehouse ?, to bad.
Funny, they have 2065 Rigol 1054Z in stock, they sell a lot.

That's an insane amount of stock!