Author Topic: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z  (Read 17686 times)

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Offline rkovvur

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Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« on: January 15, 2016, 07:26:32 AM »
Hi All:

I am newbie to these forms and I am aware of the heated discussions between Rigol and Siglent. I am planning on buying an oscilloscope soon and I am totally at loss in deciding which one to buy :)
While i like lower cost or the Rigol and its 4 channels, all the new bells and whistles of the Siglent are tempting.

While I am not a newbie to Electronics(I am a digital engineer), I am sorta new to Oscilloscopes.

I would really like to hear what you think would be the better equipment to put hard earned money into :)

Thanks !
 

Online tautech

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2016, 08:57:28 PM »
Hi All:

I am newbie to these forms and I am aware of the heated discussions between Rigol and Siglent. I am planning on buying an oscilloscope soon and I am totally at loss in deciding which one to buy :)
While i like lower cost or the Rigol and its 4 channels, all the new bells and whistles of the Siglent are tempting.

While I am not a newbie to Electronics(I am a digital engineer), I am sorta new to Oscilloscopes.

I would really like to hear what you think would be the better equipment to put hard earned money into :)

Thanks !
I've left this thread unanswered for 12+ hrs thinking you'd be recommended the 1054Z as seems to be commonly done here but it seems maybe some are having second thoughts.  :-\

So to offer some info may help:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-series-oscilloscopes/

I'm aware of further reviews coming soon, so if you can hold off for a bit there should be further info to help you choose.

The Siglent has a better front end, that is capable of higher BW to the -3dB point where signals suffer attenuation making measurements inaccurate.
While many hack the 1054Z, the 500uV range is not recommended, yet the SDS1000X series come with that range as standard and it is much lower noise than the 1054Z.
The other UI concern for some is the channel controls, be it one for each channel or one control shared between all channels, each of us prefer one or the other, this is another choice you'll need to make.

All this aside, you've not given us much to go on relating to your intended use and the features that are important to you.

There will be replies warning you of bugs, and this applies to most DSO's in this price range that are of recent release, albeit a shame this is the case. But you've seen all the threads haven't you?
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Offline Marcos

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2016, 01:03:32 AM »
I was the "proud" owner of a Rigol 1054z. My advice. Don't buy it.
At first I was carried away with so much enthusiasm on this forum and Dave videos and decided to buy it.
Once I got it, I discovered that it is full of bugs and very unstable, noisy inputs a.s.o.
Have no idea how Siglent are managing these problems but probably much better than Rigol. Not to mention that if a bug is reported to Rigol it will take years to fix that. After those years, you'll be surprised to see that after fixing those bugs they will induce new ones to the newest firmwares.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 02:43:20 AM by Marcos »
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2016, 02:26:47 AM »
I've left this thread unanswered for 12+ hrs thinking you'd be recommended the 1054Z as seems to be commonly done here but it seems maybe some are having second thoughts.  :-\

My guess is most posters are getting tired of responding to the same exact question every week.
 
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Online rrinker

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2016, 02:38:55 AM »
 I just bought a Siglent SDS1102CML - no, not exactly comparable to the model you are looking at, but this was more than good enough for my needs, and I am so far quite happy with my purchase - particularly as I got a brand new unit for $100USD less than they usually sell for. I haven't had a chance to get everything set up and actually get to work on things, so mostly I've just been playing around with it and exploring the features. Never used a Rigol, so I have no basis to compare, but I'm happy with my Siglent purchase.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2016, 05:33:19 AM »
Have no idea how Siglent are managing these problems but probably much better than Rigol. Not to mention that if a bug is reported to Rigol it will take years to fix that. After those years, you'll be surprised to see that after fixing those bugs they will induce new ones to the newest firmwares.
Siglent isn't much better so pick your poison...
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2016, 05:34:27 AM »
To the OP: My previous comment wasn't a shot at you (or anyone else), hopefully you didn't read it that way. To answer your question, they are both somewhat buggy scopes, both Rigol & Siglent are actively working on fixing issues. New firmware that fixes previous issues (and introduces new issues on occasion) comes out fairly regularly from both. The both also tend to introduce new features from time to time. I've owned a Rigol DS2072A-S for over a year and have really enjoyed it. None of the bugs have affected anything I've needed it for, granted I don't do anything too advanced with it. For what I use it for the Siglent SDS2000 probably would work just as well.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2016, 05:50:46 AM »
If you don't do anything advanced like protocol decoding or need deep memory then you will be much better off getting a second hand scope from one of the big brands (Agilent, Tektronix, Lecroy, Iwatsu, Yokogawa).
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline rkovvur

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2016, 07:00:11 AM »
Hi All:

I really appreciate all your responses. I did figure that lot of people might ask the question on which one is better :)

I tinker more with microcontrollers during my spare time and I do have a logic analyzer. However I'd like to get back to analog and spend some time understanding op-amps and mosfets and RC circuits. Hence the oscilloscope.
I definitely dont think i'll be working with anything that might need a 100+mhz scope.  I am also trying to avoid my bad habit of buying the "shiny new toy".

The SDS1202X has 'latest model' cred to it.
The DS105z has the advantage of 2 extra ports and being $160 cheaper, considering my requirements.

As one of you pointed out, maybe i need to wait bit more before I dive in.
 

Offline warnberg

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2016, 07:07:45 AM »
I chose the Rigol 1054Z and have never looked back..I'm completely satisfied with the scope, might be a bug here or there but I haven't run across them with what I am doing..

I too see the "noisy" or "buggy" comments.. but I have no complaints... 400.00 scope and get 4 channels and can unlock it to 100 Mhz, whats there to complain about?

JMO

David
 

Offline Mark

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2016, 09:52:35 AM »
I bought the 1054z and was more than happy with it.  When I needed another 4 channels I bought a second one.  I also have a Keysight MSO-X 3054A but the Rigols are the best bang for buck, you can't go wrong at $400. 
 

Offline bcbeck96

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2016, 10:18:58 AM »
I own a DS1054z, and have used the SDS1202x, would take the Rigol over the Siglant, not by a large margin but enough not to buy the Siglent.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2016, 10:31:50 AM »
I own a DS1054z, and have used the SDS1202x, would take the Rigol over the Siglent, not by a large margin but enough not to buy the Siglent.
Could you share why?

First DSO?
Familiarity with Rigol products?
Specs?
UI?
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Offline ECEdesign

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2016, 01:27:22 PM »
Slightly related topic,what is generally more useful, higher bandwidth or 4 vs 2 channels?

 

Offline tooki

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2016, 01:48:04 PM »
I've left this thread unanswered for 12+ hrs thinking you'd be recommended the 1054Z as seems to be commonly done here but it seems maybe some are having second thoughts.  :-\

My guess is most posters are getting tired of responding to the same exact question every week.
Quoted for truth.  :-+ This question has been discussed to death, anyone looking for info need only read what's already here instead of pestering with a new thread asking the same thing as the thread a few days ago, and the one a few days prior, ad infinitum.

Slightly related topic,what is generally more useful, higher bandwidth or 4 vs 2 channels?
What's better, a spoon or a knife? In other words, it depends entirely on what you're gonna use it for.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2016, 02:08:41 PM »
The biggest problems with Siglent and Rigol are FW bugs. At least Rigol has a large user base that discovers and reports bugs, and Rigol publishes new FWs over time.
Siglent is relatively new, so I do not know if their hidden bugs have been discovered or not.
Plus, Rigol has better worldwide service support, while Siglent just started focusing on int'l market.
Rigol has more knowledge beyond electronics gears -- they make bio science and chemical analyzing gears as well, and Rigol has their own ASICs, either rebadged or designed in house.
Finally, Rigol started as a company that develops scopes on their own and they hold tons of patents, Siglent started as an OEM.

Disclaimer: I'm not a Rigol employee.
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Offline lem_ix

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2016, 01:45:00 AM »
If the bandwidth is non issue, 4 channels seem more useful. Don't have experience with any of their scopes but I do have a rigol dg1032z and a siglent spd3303s and i like the fit and finish of the rigol better. Bottom line both are probably adequate, if possible play around with them a bit and see which UI you like better ;)
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2016, 03:19:07 AM »
Siglent is relatively new

This might seem to be the case but actually Siglent is just 4 years younger than Rigol.

Quote
Rigol has more knowledge beyond electronics gears -- they make bio science and chemical analyzing gears as well, and Rigol has their own ASICs, either rebadged or designed in house.

Yes, they now make a photospectrometer and an automatic sampling system. But I'd be surprised if Rigol really develops their own ASICs, from what I know they are mostly busy withs scrubbing the imprints from the commodity components they buy. 

Do you have any reference to that ASIC?

Quote
Finally, Rigol started as a company that develops scopes on their own and they hold tons of patents

Not sure about the "tons of patents" as I was only able to find a single one:

http://patents.justia.com/assignee/rigol-technologies-inc

Do you have a reference for the other patents they are supposedly holding?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 03:21:08 AM by Wuerstchenhund »
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Online blueskull

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2016, 04:11:44 AM »
Google ds6102 photo, then you will find some rigol branded chips, definitely adc. From Dave's video, some lower end scopes use Rigol branded input diff amps.

If you visit Rigol's website, you will see a patent wall, while I believe most of them are Chinese patents.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2016, 04:19:06 AM »

Google ds6102 photo, then you will find some rigol branded chips, definitely adc. From Dave's video, some lower end scopes use Rigol branded input diff amps.


Are these ASIC's ?

Also I can buy chips even with my name if I want or with my logo or just with my signature if I want. It is really easy. Just set order and send money.
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Online tautech

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2016, 11:29:00 AM »
Hi All:

I really appreciate all your responses. I did figure that lot of people might ask the question on which one is better :)

I tinker more with microcontrollers during my spare time and I do have a logic analyzer. However I'd like to get back to analog and spend some time understanding op-amps and mosfets and RC circuits. Hence the oscilloscope.
I definitely dont think i'll be working with anything that might need a 100+mhz scope.  I am also trying to avoid my bad habit of buying the "shiny new toy".

The SDS1202X has 'latest model' cred to it.
The DS105z has the advantage of 2 extra ports and being $160 cheaper, considering my requirements.

As one of you pointed out, maybe i need to wait bit more before I dive in.
I'll add more findings FYI

The SDS1102X has a  higher BW -3dB point ~280 MHz and a true 500uV low noise range.
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-series-oscilloscopes/msg825532/#msg825532

There is further info in that thread to assist you with any decision.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist & NZ Siglent Distributor
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2016, 11:46:10 AM »
Are these ASIC's ?

Also I can buy chips even with my name if I want or with my logo or just with my signature if I want. It is really easy. Just set order and send money.

That's why I said either or. I'm not sure. They do have the money and technology to do that, but since they are not pushing limits of COTS parts, I doubt why they will do that.
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2016, 05:36:48 PM »
Google ds6102 photo, then you will find some rigol branded chips, definitely adc. From Dave's video, some lower end scopes use Rigol branded input diff amps.

As rf-loop said that means nothing, as you can order many commodity parts with your own label if you buy large quantities. Plus Chinese manufacturers often just re-label ICs themselves to obfuscate where they come from.

I very doubt Rigol has the technology to design their own ASICs or even ADCs.

Quote
If you visit Rigol's website, you will see a patent wall, while I believe most of them are Chinese patents.

Could be Chinese, but it's questionable how well many of these patents would stand internationally. There seems to be a lot of stuff on which Chinese grant patents that wouldn't even be patentable in the US (and the USPTO grants pantents on a lot of silly things).
Brexit n - The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2016, 05:55:03 PM »
I very doubt Rigol has the technology to design their own ASICs or even ADCs.

I design my audio DAC from scratch, targeting better than ES9018 performance. I am 100% self funded, and all I have is <$25k test gears and EDA tools, plus a MSEE degree and an ongoing EE PhD.
I use DSP+FPGA technology extensively, plus my own thermometer DAC stage that is currently being designed on CSMC 0.5um 2P3M node, all just for fun.
In the meantime, I developed some black magic in accelerating FIR filter, plus many more tricks that are commonly used in commercial audio DACs, but never officially documented by big players for IP protection.
That is to say, only from their public promo material and white papers can I reverse engineer their secret sauce.
Once again, that's all done by myself, plus some advice from this forum, under $5k estimated total budget from concept to prototype, including 1 single IC MPW run's cost, excluding man hour cost.

Therefore, given the money and R&D labor force, I can not see why they can not do it.
After all, 5Gsps does not need latest technology such as MEMS sample and hold, plain Si 65nm should be just fine if you use 4*1.25G flash pipeline ADC and a 1:4 MUX S&H, and some software calibration to cancel out some inter symbolic interference caused by 1:4 S&H MUX.
If you ever quoted from europractice or cmp, you will know how cheap it is nowadays to get your Si rolled out.

MegaZoom like ASICs are even more easier. Just dump all the FPGA design into Cadence and let it do its job, or just dump the Quartus II project to Altera, and they can make custom made hard logic FPGAs. In the middle, there are other turn key solutions such as eASIC. The only reason they are not doing this is because as other members said, Rigol FW are full of bugs, so harden them is not a good idea for now. But as soon as their SW qualify comes up, there should be enough reason for them to harden their IP.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 06:00:32 PM by blueskull »
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Offline coppice

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Re: Should I buy Siglent SDS1202X or Rigol 1054z
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2016, 06:00:21 PM »
I very doubt Rigol has the technology to design their own ASICs or even ADCs.
Almost anyone can turn out a pure digital ASIC. High quality ADCs are tougher. In fact any mixed signal device is tougher. However, their biggest hurdle with mixed signal would be justifying the NRE for their modest volumes. Especially when they haven't moved into the rarified atmosphere where the merchant market can't supply them with perfectly serviceable parts.
 


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