EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: StillTrying on November 09, 2016, 02:13:53 pm
-
What firmware should be on the CML+? I don't seem to be able to find any new.
Currently 6.101.12 or something,
I think the "12" is possibly: 'The target number of freeze ups per hour'.
-
What firmware should be on the CML+? I don't seem to be able to find any new.
Currently 6.101.12 or something, I think the "12" is possibly: 'The target number of freeze ups per hour'.
There is a later version, I am trying to get Siglent to post it on their websites, but.....what we are a little concerned over is it might be used in error and installed in the non-plus models. It's quite large...7Mb IIRC.
Be patient or PM me with your email and I'll shoot it over to you.
-
I moved it and left it just displaying it's own 1khz for over a hour, seemed to keep going until I tried turning on Averaging, turned 16 down to 4 and then it froze, and had to use Math on power up, so I'll stay away from there!
I like to use dot mode and 1 sec persistence, in RT or ETS because I think it helps to make dso waveforms look more like a proper :) scope(even if I'm the only one who does), so I notice the strange 'features' of wrong colour for ch2's persistence dots, and no persistence at all on 100nS/div - just that speed!, although there's still enough thin dots anyway.
I don't update anything unless I have to, is there a list of the changes?
-
Sorry I haven't seen a change log but I'd hope there's one when its posted on Siglent sites.
I was sent it just after the plus models were released and I install it in each plus unit I sell.
Just yell and I'll get it to you.
-
Finally got some time to follow this up for you from my bench.
The version I have is SDS1000A_V100R006B01D01P16.ADS and the file name bears no resemblence to any of the previous models. Also unlike older models, once installed the DSO self-boots whereas you previously had to manually power cycle the DSO.
I've asked Siglent for a link to this FW and the latest is; there is even newer P18 FW on its way soon.
When I get the link I'm promised you can be sure I'll post it here.
-
Any links to try?
-
Any links to try?
Not yet.
Pop me your email by PM and I'll send the P16 version I have.
There is a P18 version coming but no word as yet when.
-
Any links to try?
Did the P16 FW I sent you help some?
-
Yes, got the 10MB attachment no problem.
Seems mostly improvements in .16
Definitely needed a reboot after update because of trigger anomalies.
X and Y position controls faster, but still fine enough.
Variable/fine Y amplitude works without the waveform moving away from 0V and falling off the screen.
No freezes at all really, but perhaps not on long enough.
Audio frequency, low level, low noise, still the same, still very good!
But the trigger level indication no longer lines up exactly with the displayed waveform. It can be up to 1/4 div. off the waveform and still trigger, or 1/4 div. inside the waveform and not trigger, and with changes of Y amplitude control the trigger doesn't always follow the waveform accurately, occasionally failing outside of the waveform's amplitude completely, minor but it didn't do that with .12.
Still no persistence on 100ns/div and 50ns/div.
Still some jumping waveforms if trying to stop or save them.
-
Thanks for documenting those observations, please do add edits if you find anything else.
I'll grab a unit and see if I can replicate some......
Let's see what Siglent can improve on with this expected P18 FW update.
Like I said I'll provide a link to it when I get one.
-
Thanks for documenting those observations, please do add edits if you find anything else.
I've got loads, I think it's difficult when not everyone, all 1 of us! would agree whether it's a bug or a feature,
- and you know what happens to scope threads. I've never found a CML+ thread anywhere(the "+" makes searching difficult), this could be the only one!
Of course a change log would be very useful but as it's still on it's 1st and 2nd FW, I can imagine why they don't want to publish one.
-
Thanks for documenting those observations, please do add edits if you find anything else.
I've got loads, I think it's difficult when not everyone, all 1 of us! would agree whether it's a bug or a feature,
- and you know what happens to scope threads. I've never found a CML+ thread anywhere(the "+" makes searching difficult), this could be the only one!
Of course a change log would be very useful but as it's still on it's 1st and 2nd FW, I can imagine why they don't want to publish one.
AFAIK you're the first to bring any CML+ matters to our attention, despite that there have been many sold in the few months they've been out.
The FW I've shot to you will be a beta of the yet to be released P18 so until there is an official FW release there won't be any public changelogs I'd imagine, but despite this if there's any functionality you think isn't right (don't know how much DSO experience you have), by all means either post it here or shoot it through to my email and I can forward it to the factory.
Whether this turns into a scope thread or not doesn't matter, if something's not right it need be fixed. Period.
Basic functionality should be identical to any other CML, the Plus only signifies the addition of a higher res display and LAN to the previous models.
-
Thanks for documenting those observations, please do add edits if you find anything else.
I'll grab a unit and see if I can replicate some......
But the trigger level indication no longer lines up exactly with the displayed waveform. It can be up to 1/4 div. off the waveform and still trigger, or 1/4 div. inside the waveform and not trigger, and with changes of Y amplitude control the trigger doesn't always follow the waveform accurately, occasionally failing outside of the waveform's amplitude completely, minor but it didn't do that with .12.
New SDS1102CML+ with P16 FW.
I did notice some evidence of the above but ONLY after using Auto setup.
But once you take control back from the scope with some X and Y user initiated adjustments, all returns to normal. Some small trigger inaccuracies/inconsistencies remain evident when in Peak Detect mode, unsurprisingly. ;)
Still no persistence on 100ns/div and 50ns/div.
I tried both these frequencies at 1, 2, 5s and Infinite persistence settings in both Sin/X and dot display modes and observed no waveform persistence problems. :-//
Still some jumping waveforms if trying to stop or save them.
How much?
Point 1 or 2 of a div I saw but never more.
This I expect to be a result of processing delays from signal detection/processing and then to the display.
Does it show in captured screenshots?
I wonder if this too is associated with Auto setup and a reboot with user settings negates any jumping saved waveform.
Can you find a simple way to replicate this?
Feel free to throw any further things forward for checking or clarification.
-
Thanks for your efforts.
Don't think I'm not quite happy with it because overall I am, I'd have got, or swapped it for an X with free (but never to be used decoding) or something else if I wanted. I think the low noise on 10mV/5mV/2mV is excellent.
I'll have to post a couple of full size screen captures.
HW B-64-5.1
I've put the trigger level right on the border of triggering/not triggering as shown by the trigger counter showing 530Hz, a pixel or 2 up or down would change it to <10Hz or 1.000kHz, and obviously I can see when the waveform is alive or dead.
I'd like to say a self-calibration fixed it but it didn't.
Persistence captures didn't save, I'll try again. - Done.
If just a single channel is ON, then persistence is missing from 50ns as well. :-//
-
Thanks for your efforts.
Don't think I'm not quite happy with it because overall I am, I'd have got, or swapped it for an X with free (but never to be used decoding) or something else if I wanted. I think the low noise on 10mV/5mV/2mV is excellent.
I'll have to post a couple of full size screen captures.
HW B-64-5.1
I've put the trigger level right on the border of triggering/not triggering as shown by the trigger counter showing 530Hz, a pixel or 2 up or down would change it to <10Hz or 1.000kHz, and obviously I can see when the waveform is alive or dead.
I'd like to say a self-calibration fixed it but it didn't.
Persistence captures didn't save, I'll try again. - Done.
If just a single channel is ON, then persistence is missing from 50ns as well. :-//
Persistence:
Missing persistence (50ns) feels like bug in FW what you use.
If I remember right (long time ago when last used CML model) when scope is stopped, persistence disappear but if save screen image "on fly" it also save persistence.
Trigger:
It looks normal (with this your single example and explanation).
It need understand and remember that this model do not have full digital trigger system. It is very different what can find in example SDS1000X and 2000X and many other modern technology scopes what have full digital trigger system and what make them totally different animals.
For CML and CML+ specifications tell (only) trigger sensitivity (what is perfect definition for this?)
Trigger Sensitivity:
1 Divisions: DC-10 MHz
1.5 Divisions: 10 MHz - Max BW
In this model (Whole SDS1000 series) trigger system is traditional old two analog pathway system. Simplified: Analog signal is splitted for trigger system after final buffer amplifier before ADC. Then routed and level edjusted to analog trigger comparator. Comparator other port have this analog signal. Then there is system generated (DAC + some adjustments) trigger level. When it cross this level comparator output change and this signal is binary trig signal. (this is also what counter counts, in principle).
Digitized analog signal what is displayed on the screen is not signal what trigger comparator get. There is many small differencies due to different analog signal handling, trigger comparator hysteresis (what is very important) and this signal also include different signal noise, different bandwidth shape, inaccuracies and noise in trigger level signal. Also trigger comparator is not school book ideal component.
As can see in image it do not generate trigger signal after every rising edge. Because your trigger level setting is just borderline if it can see this edge or not. It really need realize that on the screen is signal what human look with eyes but it is not what trigger comparator see. Also there need be hysteresis. Comparator need see that after every rising edge what crosses hysteresis upper level is then returned down and reliable below hysteresis lower level. Both of these must happen. But on the screen we can not see real this signal what trigger comparator see and what is see in its other port for compare.
Of course this kind of system is possible to do very accurate but after then we do not talk simply cheap machines. (analog pathway trigger can be, if really do "rocket science" very advanced...(because analog processing is fast, because analog processing do not drop to Nyquist-Shannon trap etc. But extremely good analog pathway trigger system in fast digital advanced oscilloscope is - expensive and complex. I'm not ssure but perhaps example LeCroy have done there some experimental things...)
Shortly: With this kind of trigger system this (what you explain with this one image) is just normal. It is how it works. Important is: "know your equipment" limits.
Many times (but not always) and example in this case, just push trigger level button for autoset half level trig and you get quite reliable trigger and right counted trigger pulses for frequency counter)
(Why I can say it is normal (if look this one example).
I have tested "lot" of individual SDS1000CML and CNL models. (Not this new CML+)) Also I have tested many individual older Rigol DS1000E series (what have same trig principle) and also example lot of some older Owon models and even in bottom some Hantek models. I have used "truck load" of some older Tektronix and HP digital scopes what also have same trigger principle but more expensive and mostly better - if not look this one "famous" total junk Tek "school" model. (and of course even more both of these analog scopes - and still in use)
In full digital trigger system all is different. (simplified principle) Trigger system "look" same digitized signal after ADC what we look on the screen. What is digitized is what trigger system see (but it also see only this)
Take this seriously. Remember that all you see on the scope screen is sum of all kind of errors mixed with undefined true signal. Never you can see there whole pure truth and only this. Independent of if your scope price is $100 or $100000.
-
Can you find a simple way to replicate this?
I forgot about the jumping, but here goes.
I must have done 100s of STOPs at low X speeds between 100ms/div and 1ms/div and I don't remember seeing any jumps on STOP of even 1 pixel. But at higher X speeds jumps occur.
If I enable ETS at 100ns the waveform looks same as the above with the trigger position exactly right and a STOP is only about 1 pixel out which is fine. (I don't think it uses ETS until 50ns even when it's set in the menu.)
At 50ns the ETS waveform looks like ETS1.gif. With the extra sampling the live waveform looks very good, but the trigger position is off by 25ns.
If I STOP this waveform it jumps to do one last sweep through the correct trigger position. ETSjump.gif
Although it was a clean switch-on just since I saw your post about 2 hours ago, and it's only been looking at it own 1kHz, enabling ETS soon enough gave problems as in Strange.gif. :-DD
Thanks rf and taut I read your detailed posts.
-
There is some kind of "de ja vu" when I look these images and when I try remember some very old cases with SDS1000CML with its some quite old FW version.
I think if there is now P16 and as tautech told there is possible soon coming P18 is is better to wait it.
Btw, using ETS with extremely low frequency, nearly DC (1kHz is nearly DC ) signal with very very slow rise time (for what purpose).... it may take nearly infinite before it have collected all samples, specially if go faster t/div. (also best display mode for ETS is dots)
Also in "old times" it need be well stabilized temperature (example one hour) and then self cal. If scope is then fully thermal stabilized ETS works better, this I do not know why. I remember old time when ETS did not work nearly at all just after scope is turned on until it have thermal stabilized. But this was with some old CML and old FW.
-
Btw, using ETS with extremely low frequency, nearly DC (1kHz is nearly DC ) signal with very very slow rise time (for what purpose).... it may take nearly infinite
Just using it's own stable 1khz so that others can very easily reproduce, or maybe not!
I'd say at 1kHz the ETS takes about 0.75sec to form.
I agree the rise time (125ns) of its 1khz may be too slow. I've had some supposedly 20ns rise/fall time CMOS 556s sitting here for a month or four, so a good excuse to test one!
Persistence stays put when STOPped, if you expand the stopped waveform the persistence doesn't expand - just a new version of the wave.
-
As yet I've not been able to replicate the 50ns Persistence issue with frequencies <25 MHz.
I've found another tiny issue where in Dots mode at fast timebase's there's some kind of waveform reconstruction happening. No effect on the waveform per se, just it not dots. :-//
Anyways, Siglent will be linked to this thread to examine findings and make any changes needed.
-
Just using it's own stable 1khz so that others can very easily reproduce, or maybe not!
I'd say at 1kHz the ETS takes about 0.75sec to form.
Ok, it is then faster than with some very old FW in CML model what I remember.
Specially if go to higher "equivalent sample speed" (more fast t/div)
If you zoom when scope is stopped it do not keep persitence. Naturally, because persistence iis not in sample buffer. It is in display memory. But when you zoom in (stop mode) it read new set from sample buffer. (It is NOT display memory zoom!)
In sample buffer there is just one single data stream and not any knowledge about previous "sweeps".
-
rise time.
The 15ns rise and fall times of the test CMOS 556 completely(near enough) solved the 25ns ETS trigger offset. :) Still jumps on STOP but only very small.
At 84kHz the time to form the first ETS waveform still around 0.75sec.
Still missing persistence, and still some trigger level offset.
-
Also in "old times" it need be well stabilized temperature (example one hour) and then self cal. If scope is then fully thermal stabilized ETS works better, this I do not know why. I remember old time when ETS did not work nearly at all just after scope is turned on until it have thermal stabilized. But this was with some old CML and old FW.
I think this is probably it. If I do a self-cal immediately before using ETS, it works without problems. After about 1 to 1+1/2 hours the first effect I see is the double waveforms 25ns apart on STOP, which gives me a chance to do another self-cal and then the double waveforms disappear. I don't know how long the second self-cal lasts - not been on long enough.
-
Normal/Long Memory
Normal Mem No persistence DOTs on 100ns/div and 50ns/div, if I switch to Long Memory persistence DOTs then appear on 100ns and 50ns, but off on 25n/div and 2.5ns/div instead!
STOP works differently on Normal/Long Memory.
STOPping on Normal Memory simply captures the displayed waveform against any new triggers as you would expect.
On Long Memory STOP clears the grid screen and awaits one last trigger, (Even though it's in STOPped mode) which it then displays. FW .12 was the same.
No persistence dots in Zoom/Delay mode, all speeds, but persistence is on with interpolation.
-
As yet I've not been able to replicate the 50ns Persistence issue with frequencies <25 MHz.
I've found another tiny issue where in Dots mode at fast timebase's there's some kind of waveform reconstruction happening. No effect on the waveform per se, just it not dots. :-//
Running in DOTS mode at the fastest timebase speed it draws small horizontal lines, STOPped it just shows the (few) DOTS.
-
Am I the only CML+ user in the world. :)
Long Memory, Single trigger, Force trigger gives as pic, I often get the impression that it doesn't know where the trigger position is in long memory, or where the start and end position(s) of memory are, either way the (repeatable) forced trigger trace makes no sense to me.
The sine curved bit is part of a previous trace/capture.
Edit: More.
A Forced trigger, Long Mem, both probes shorted to gnd clip.
Usually the 'cliff edge' is not expandable even if it's right under the trigger, but this one was expandable.
LongMemEdge.gif and LongMemEdgeX20.gif"
-
Thanks for identifying another issue that needs be sorted.
I've whacked another query to the factory asking when the new FW is due or to get a link to it that I can pass on to you.
-
Any date for the next FW?
-
Any date for the next FW?
Not as yet.
Another beta, this one "hot off the press" is on its way to you via email.
Please report its fixes and failings.
When finalised the new version will be added to Siglent websites.
-
Oh dear, all the same 'features' are still there in P18.
All the Print BMPs I saved, saved as 751kB, they used to be 1.1MB, don't what that is yet.
I'll make a list.
-
Oh dear, all the same 'features' are still there in P18.
All the Print BMPs I saved, saved as 751kB, they used to be 1.1MB, don't what that is yet.
I'll make a list.
Sorry I can't confirm anything you raise until some new stock arrives.
To be sure it's updated correctly, can you run the FW update again and check the version is correct and listed in Utilities>System ?
As we don't have install instructions or a changelog for this beta I'm thinking it might need to installed twice as is required for new FW in some other Siglent instruments.
There was some talk of adding other Print filetype's to the UI of Siglent equipment or are they still BMP's ?
Feel free to put your list here and/or email it to me.
-
First thing I did was check the version had changed, however I'll update again later just to make sure. :-//
I don't think the Save Print filetype's have changed, still just waveform or picture.
Edit. Updating the firmware again, reformatting the memory stick, reboots, self-calibrations = no difference as expected.
Pressing STOP while Long Memory is enabled doesn't freeze the displayed waveform, it clears the screen and waits/acquires 1 new trigger, makes it near impossible to capture slower/infrequent events at the higher sampling rate and record length of Long Memory.
Long Memory gets confused on changes of timebase speed, and a forced trigger doesn't clear it, FWs .12, .16, P18 all the same screens: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/msg1091615/#msg1091615 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/msg1091615/#msg1091615)
No persistence on 100ns with 2 channels in use. No persistence on 100ns and 50ns with 1 channel in use.
No persistence on the expanded waveforms in Zoom/Delay mode.
ETS is slow and unstable, but that goes with saying!
-
P18 firmware:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5074&tid=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5074&tid=15)
Haven't looked at it yet.
-
"Haven't looked at it yet."
Don't rush, all 8,105,542 bytes and bits 100% match the one you already sent to me!
They need to supply a list of the fixes.
-
They need to supply a list of the fixes.
Siglent have, it's in the 2nd file of the unpacked download and titled Revision History:
1. Fixed the bug: Wave trace departs from zero line while there is offset
2. Fixed the bug: Sample rate of zoom changed after STOP in dot display mode
3. Fixed the bug: All measurements are on, select source on a disable channel. Reboot the Scope, then the software hang on the boot screen
4. Adjusted keyboard scan method to optimize recognizing keyboard value
5. Modified BMP from 24 bit to 16 bit while save/get BMP form Scope
-
"Siglent have"
After you mentioned it I remember clicking on it from the rar, but it didn't open so I forgot about it!
They're saving the 16bit BMPs from the bottom to the top for some reason.
Meanwhile.
LongMemory, Dots, 100MS/s.
About every 6th of my infrequent triggers is showing a corrupted display.
-
I've managed to 'reset' something or other.
Took me quite a while to notice, but missing the (rarely used) LongMem option and "Siglent" off the screen!
Tried reloading the FW .18.
Any simple fix? Although nothing seems to be effecting my normal usage.
-
I've managed to 'reset' something or other.
Took me quite a while to notice, but missing the (rarely used) LongMem option and "Siglent" off the screen!
Tried reloading the FW .18.
Any simple fix? Although nothing seems to effect my normal usage.
I'll get someone from Siglent to contact you.
-
OK thanks, it's not life threateningly urgent, you may pass on my email if you want, but I tend to only check it once or twice a week.
When I confirmed 'Load' over the .18 FW file name, I was expecting it to go away for a few seconds and then say something like "FW .18 already installed. Continue ?", but it just switched straight to the "Updating firmware" screen.
-
OK thanks, it's not life threateningly urgent, you may pass on my email if you want, but I tend to only check it once or twice a week.
When I confirmed 'Load' over the .18 FW file name, I was expecting it to go away for a few seconds and then say something like "FW .18 already installed. Continue ?", but it just switched straight to the "Updating firmware" screen.
Yep, these do no matter how many times you try to install the same FW.
I've got a customer with the same issue, Siglent will sort it for you.
You're fine to continue using it. ;)
-
When I confirmed 'Load' over the .18 FW file name, I was expecting it to go away for a few seconds and then say something like "FW .18 already installed. Continue ?", but it just switched straight to the "Updating firmware" screen.
It may has something to do with this line in "update instructions" docx: Before updating the ADS file, the ADS file need to be renamed and ensured it’s name less than 9 letters.
-
When I confirmed 'Load' over the .18 FW file name, I was expecting it to go away for a few seconds and then say something like "FW .18 already installed. Continue ?", but it just switched straight to the "Updating firmware" screen.
It may has something to do with this line in "update instructions" docx: Before updating the ADS file, the ADS file need to be renamed and ensured it’s name less than 9 letters.
The reason it is recommended to do this is the SDS1k**L UI can't display a full filename longer than 9 characters.
Therefore it's easy to select the wrong update file from a USB stick as only the first few character and the last few get displayed.
What I do is take note of the update file size (I have a lot of .ads update files on a USB stick) and that helps you select the correct one.
TBH I never rename update files but I do take extreme care of the file I select to install.
-
Pressing STOP while in Math, Dots+Persistence mode gives the whiteout every time.
Doesn't happen in Interpolation mode.
-
The maximum sensitivity you can set on the math waveform is 1pV / div.
LOL
-
Shifting a reply on Math measurements to here where it's more on topic:
Should we ask Siglent if this can be implemented ?
That would be very nice. As I said, I thought that I would see the option to measure whatever math function you are using in "Measure" menu, I expected to find that option just where you select to measure CH1 or CH2, I mean, I expected it to also measure "Math".
I too think there need be some SDS1kCML+ Math measurements and I will send a request to Siglent that at least a good basic selection be offered in future FW.
I looked at a SDS1kX and while the UI is quite different there are 24 OSD measurement types offered for the Math function.
-
Shifting a reply on Math measurements to here where it's more on topic:
Should we ask Siglent if this can be implemented ?
That would be very nice. As I said, I thought that I would see the option to measure whatever math function you are using in "Measure" menu, I expected to find that option just where you select to measure CH1 or CH2, I mean, I expected it to also measure "Math".
I will send a request to Siglent that at least a good basic selection be offered in future FW.
Thank you very much. Let's see if Siglent does it.
-
I've seen this effect many times on all the firmwares, so I've captured one, actually captured a few.
NormalMem. LOL!
The first image correctly shows 3 peaks of smps noise near the peak of a 150kHz sine with the trigger position on the largest middle pulse.
If I expand the STOPped waveform by 1 timebase speed the trigger position moves to the 1st of the 3 pulses.
If I expand it by 1 more timebase speed, the trigger position (of the STOPped capture) moves back to the middle pulse.
I don't expect to capture all the details of the 150kHz sine and the 30MHz pulses in one capture, but it seems a strange effect to me.
-
I will send a request to Siglent that at least a good basic selection be offered in future FW.
Have they replied?
-
I will send a request to Siglent that at least a good basic selection be offered in future FW.
Have they replied?
Yep. It's still in discussion of what Math OSD measurements to include.
Suggestions ?
-
They've got more than enough to be getting on with in this thread. :)
-
I will send a request to Siglent that at least a good basic selection be offered in future FW.
Have they replied?
Yep. It's still in discussion of what Math OSD measurements to include.
Suggestions ?
I was thinking that they should add "Math" to the Measure menu, just like if Math waveform were a physical input of the oscilloscope.
-
Minor oddities.
Viewing the onscreen Time measurements while in Alt/DuelTB mode messes up the Units of the time measurements, they all should be 2.25MHz. AltUnits1.gif
The pass/fail Y mask is always 2X the set Y value. MaskYx2.gif
-
ETS mode on >100ns/div speeds, just for a change. >:D
When I STOP an ETS waveform, why does it STOP with the opposite trigger edge polarity under the trigger position, as shown by the left-behind persistence.
I've tried the LP and HP trigger filters just in case, - no difference.
The STOP is instant, it's not doing another ETS scan, just choosing a different trigger position to display from the STOPped waveform data.
ETSafterselfcal.gif is now, right after a 25sec. self calibration.
ETSold.gif is an old one from long ago (.16 FW)
-
Channel Skew takes ages to wind up from 0ns to 5ns, it keeps jumping up to 12 to 15ns, the trick seems to be to stop about every 1ns and wait a second or 2, still takes ages.
It doesn't always save on power off, it's 50:50 whether it'll be on 0ns or 5ns on power up.
Using EXTtrig ignores any (carefully set!) skew values.
When using EXTTrig pressing "Set to 50%" always sets the trigger level to 0V, rather than 50% of trigger's amplitude.
That's the last 'feature' I can remember - for now!
-
It must be time for the unreleased FW to be ununreleased. :)
-
It must be time for the unreleased FW to be ununreleased. :)
Some new improvements for you to check out:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CMLplus_Firmware_Update_EN.rar (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CMLplus_Firmware_Update_EN.rar)
-
2017/4/7
6.01.01.19
1. Repaired bug causing Math error when trace is stopped in dot display mode.
2. Fixed ‘add measurement’error in Polish language.
3. Bug repaired when measuring frequency of 500 Hz, using alternate trigger, and a time base of greater than 1 ms/div.
Update instructions
Before updating the ADS file, the ADS file need to be renamed and ensured that its name is less than 9 letters.
Hmmm... :-\
I get the impression I could list the results before installing the firmware. :-X
-
Update instructions
Before updating the ADS file, the ADS file need to be renamed and ensured that its name is less than 9 letters.
This is because the file system UI will not display the full filename larger than 9 characters in SDS1*****L models.
It has always been this way and now the update instruction have been changed to try to help users not make a mistake and possibly brick a unit.
The risk is higher when a user has many upgrade files on 1 USB stick but if care is taken there is little problem and risk.
Edit
I'll have a chance to check this update today. Please put up links to posts you've made about thing that have not been fixed.
-
OK. The new filename would clash with the old .18 which shows as SDS1000CML+_V on the scope.
Would there be many improvements not listed? I can't think of any reason to install it if it's just 1,2,3.
-
OK. The new filename would clash with the old .18 which shows as SDS1000CML+_V on the scope.
Would there be many improvements not listed? I can't think of any reason to install it if it's just 1,2,3.
Not all improvements are always listed, but I'll make it my next task to check this update.
Just grabbed the update and un-rar'ed it so I'm ready to go.
Have to reacquaint myself with all that's been happening with these so it might take an hour or so.
If you're not still up (11am here) check for comments in the morning.
-
"(11am here)"
00:30 Sunday here, I'll be up for 2 hours-ish yet!
-
"(11am here)"
00:30 Sunday here, I'll be up for 2 hours-ish yet!
:)
Install it quick before Siglent pull it down. My SDS1102CML+ is now SDS1152CML+. >:D
Checking other stuff.
-
Oh dear, cut the filename down to 9 chars, FPGA_V5.2.ADS and been stuck on
Updating firmware now. Do not interrupt power to the DSO during this process, or the DSO will no longer boot.
for 8 minutes so far.
-
Oh dear, cut the filename down to 9 chars, FPGA_V5.2.ADS and been stuck on
Updating firmware now. Do not interrupt power to the DSO during this process, or the DSO will no longer boot.
for 8 minutes so far.
EDIT
IMPORTANT NOTE
The following few posts are to resolve an unexpected error where a firmware update freezes on install.
Advice to turn off the power when the SDS1***CML+ has frozen is against all advice by the manuals and Siglent. Proceed with extreme care.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Had a customer have the same problem. :-//
Pull the USB stick and power it off.....yes, cut the power.
Try another stick.
I had no problem doing one I had here, didn't change the filename but did take care to select the correct file.
Customer tried twice with the same stick while I waited on the phone but as it was getting late I suggested he use another stick in the morning and give me a shout about the outcome.
Have a try or wait for my local guinea pig to report back.
(apologies to John)
-
"Pull the USB stick and power it off.....yes, cut the power."
Switching it off 1st rather than pulling the USB 1st would seem the safest to me, not done either yet.
No problem with the USB that I know of.
Perhaps it's just giving me enough time to get its box ready. :)
Edit:
Pulled the USB, switched it off, switched it back on, and seems to be normal and still on FW .18.
-
"Pull the USB stick and power it off.....yes, cut the power."
Switching it off 1st rather than pulling the USB 1st would seem the safest to me, not done either yet.
No problem with the USB that I know of.
Perhaps it's just giving me enough time to get its box ready. :)
From the stick the update just takes ~15s to load and the scope takes only a few minutes to digest it.
If the USB stick read/write LED is not on, pull it and power off. John had to do this twice and then we decided to try again in the morning.
Late here now but I'll do another one I have in the morning and report back.
BTW if you shortened the filename just be sure to leave the .ads file extension intact. ;)
-
"didn't change the filename but did take care to select the correct file."
That's the way I normally do it, throw everything else in a folder so that there's only the one firmware showing in the root, but that long-filename method instantly gives "Update Failed" and exits the update screen.
I'll re-download it and try again soon.
Edit: Is "John" also the one without 'Siglent' and the LongMem option.
-
Tried a few things including reinstalling FW .18 which was fine.
Gave up. But while watching the snooker, dreamt up the idea to make the filename as close as possible to the .18 filename, making it SDS1000CML+_V100R006B01D01P19.ADS, which worked! although a bit longer than the recommended 8 chars.
No differences/changes/improvements found yet, so list follows.
-
FW 6.01.01.18 to 6.01.01.19
HW B-64-5.1 ( seems to have changed to B-64-5.2 with P19 )
SN SDS10BA216****
Trigger Level line going off with change of FW. #8,#13
Off by only 0.2 Div. P18 -> P19
Missing Dots Persistance, with 1CH 100ns & 50ns/Div, with 2CHs just missing from 100ns/Div. #2,#13
Missing Dots Persistance/LongMem 25ns/Div and 2.5ns/Div. #22
Unstable ETS mode, lockups, freezes. When switching to ETS, the freeze can be so fast that it doesn't even have time to change the menu from "Real Time" to "Equ Time".
Jumping Waveforms on ETS STOP. #15
STOP works differently on Normal/Long Memory. #22,#30
LongMem corrupted displays. #24,#30,#34
LongMem Option disappeared. #35
Math sensitivity goes to 1pV/Div. #42
Making any changes to Math, including just returning to the Math menu, resets the Math sensitivity to that of the scope channels, but it doesn't seem to take into account the probes' X10 setting.
Trigger X position sometimes moving with X expansion on STOPed waveforms. #45
ETS waveform STOPs on the opposite trigger edge polarity. #51
Channel Skew adjustment jumping/not saving. #52
EXTtrig ignores Channel Skew values. #52
EXTrig "Set to 50%" sets to 0V. #52
Intermittent Saving of REF 'A' or 'B' waveforms, broke P18 -> P19. #69
- Improved by itself, just an occasional unexplained "Function isn't useable."
Unexplained lockups/freezes when using Scan Mode on slow timebases 1 to 10 Sec/div.
10S/Div. the worst, will lock up on power up after the splash screen if I don't quickly turn the TB up to 50ms/div.
In Scan Mode touching almost any control causes the trace to restart, about the only control you can touch without losing the captured scan is RUN/STOP.
Minor oddities #50
The messed up ALT Time Units Fixed in P19.
Pressing STOP while in Math,Dots+Persistence mode giving the whiteout. #41
Maybe Fixed in P19.
-
Wow, there's more electronic snafu action going down here than on the first episode of Lost In Space :popcorn:
And I thought losing the Siglent boot time splash screen was a concern after unboxing a CFL, and applying a firmware update to resolve a weird Channel 1 gain issue (fixed btw).
I haven't run the unit through its paces yet to see if that's the only issue :-\
EDIT /UPDATE: Siglent did contact me and after some email chat back and forth describing the snafu to their staff/engineers,
they promptly sent me a file that fixed the issue :clap:
This is what I like to see :-+ it encourages one to BUY new gear with Support confidence, and give it a whirl,
rather than stick to using well made older gear that keeps working (sometimes with a bit of TLC of course)
-
P19
I can only Save a new REF waveform about 25% of the time, can't find any reason why "Function isn't useable" about 75% of the time, not seen this before.
Edit: After 5 mins off and a reboot, now worse, only saved once out of about 20 tries!
-
It must be time for new CML+ firmware.
-
It must be time for new CML+ firmware.
You ain't kidding.
I send Siglent reminders of this thread ~once a month. Latest was last week. :rant:
-
EDIT /UPDATE: Siglent did contact me and after some email chat back and forth describing the snafu to their staff/engineers, they promptly sent me a file that fixed the issue :clap:
I wish they'd send me "a file", have you seen my (up to date) list just above.
-
EDIT /UPDATE: Siglent did contact me and after some email chat back and forth describing the snafu to their staff/engineers, they promptly sent me a file that fixed the issue :clap:
I wish they'd send me "a file", have you seen my (up to date) list just above.
Send them a PM and you might get lucky
fwiw I'm not a DSO power user (yet) I bought mine for basic 4 channel monitoring, simple wysiwyg controls, some quick capture stuff,
and because the popular Rigol 4/2 channel knob layout wasn't my cup of tea
I probably won't find out any time soon if it has any more bugs or quirks to speak of, I still get my main work done with old school analogue storage scope/s.
Good luck :-+
maybe they'll consider to take it back if it's a dud and do a fair deal/swap via their local distributor on something else... to put closure on this post.
-
Electro D
The next FW is supposed to be file-able/cfg-able, but I won't be holding my breath. ;D
-
Pass/fail doesn't work(detect) when in DOTs Mode.
-
Pass/fail doesn't work(detect) when in DOTs Mode.
You have Persistence enabled which is not appropriate for Pass/Fail tests.
The solution would be to display a warning that Pass/Fail will not work is Persistence modes. (needs adding to the GUI)
-
You have Persistence enabled which is not appropriate for Pass/Fail tests.
Nope, it doesn't seem to be that, on this scope any old persistence is just ignored the scope can't see it, any auto measurements are done on just on the last full brightness scan.
-
FW 6.01.01.18 to 6.01.01.19
HW B-64-5.1 ( seems to have changed to B-64-5.2 with P19 )
SN SDS10BA216****
1. LongMem Option disappeared. #35
2. LongMem corrupted displays. #24,#30,#34
3. STOP works differently on Normal/Long Memory. #22,#30
Pressing STOP while using LongMem actually puts the CML+ into single capture mode.
(I think I know why it's been done that way, but after using NormalMem, and for slow triggers/captures it's a pain.)
4. Trigger X position sometimes moves to a different part of the waveform when X-expanding a STOPed waveform. #45, #79
It's more common when the X trigger position if well off the screen center position.
5. EXTrig "Set to 50%" actually sets the trigger level to 0V, same as pressing the triglevel knob. #52
6. Using EXTtrig ignores any Channel Skew set values. #52
7. Channel Skew adjustment jumps and saves randomly(50/50) on power-off. #52
8. Unstable ETS mode, lockups, freezes. When switching to ETS, the freeze can be so fast that it doesn't even have time to change the menu item from "Real Time" to "Equ Time", turning the TB up to 50ns/div it can freeze before it's changed the on screen M100ns to M50ns.
9. ETS waveform STOPs on the opposite trigger edge polarity. #51
STOPping on a +ve edge when set to -ve edge is more common than the STOPping on a -ve edge when set to +ve edge.
10. Jumping Waveforms on ETS STOP. #15
11. Intermittent Saving of REF 'A' or 'B' waveforms, broke P18 -> P19. #69
- Improved by itself, just an occasional unexplained "Function isn't useable."
12. Unexplained lockups/freezes when using Scan Mode on slow timebases 1sec to 10 sec/div.
10S/Div. the worst, will lock up on power up after the splash screen if I don't quickly turn the TB up to 50ms/div.
13. In Scan Mode touching almost any control causes the trace to restart, about the only control you can carefully touch without losing the captured scan is RUN/STOP.
14. DOTs Persistance missing on 100ns & 50ns/Div with 1CH in use, with 2CHs in use just missing on 100ns/Div. #2,#13
15. Dots Persistance missing on 25ns/Div and 2.5ns/Div on LongMem. #22
16. DOTs persistance missing on Zoom/DelayTB Mode. #22
17. Pass/fail doesn't work(detect) when in DOTs Mode. #75
18. Making almost any changes to Math, including just viewing the Math menu, keeps resetting the Math sensitivity to that of the scope channels, but it doesn't seem to take into account the probes' X10 setting.
Math sensitivity adjustment direction is reverse of Y channels, it's easy to find yourself on the way to 1pV/div.
19. Pressing the Trigger "Set to 50%" when a channel is "Inverted" sets the trigger level to the waveform's
old (before inverted) position, and the trigger level control now works in reverse.
20. Trigger Holdoff adjustment steps don't vary with timebase speed, they're still 10ns steps at 250ms/div. making Trigger holdoff unusable for slower timebase speeds.
-
"4. Trigger X position sometimes moves to a different part of the waveform when X-expanding a STOPped waveform. #45, #79"
I've found what causes this, and can produce many of them...
-
"4. Trigger X position sometimes moves to a different part of the waveform when X-expanding a STOPped waveform. #45, #79"
I've found what causes this, and can produce many of them...
This behaviour can be related to the trigger Holdoff setting....not hard to check. ;)
-
This behaviour can be related to the trigger Holdoff setting....not hard to check. ;)
It's something to do with the trigger hysteresis levels, but thanks for reminding me to add trigger holdoff to the list as well!
-
It would be good if any other CML+ or DL+ users could reproduce - or not, any of the features in the list above.
Near the bottom or top of the screen, the trigger level indication is off by about a mile, it doesn't trigger at all if the line is within the waveform's amplitude.
-
The List in Reply #78 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/msg1304949/#msg1304949) above is current/uptodate.
-
Vertical Scale is recorded to only 2 decimal places, so when below 10mV/div. it comes out as 0V/div.
Vertical Units,CH1:V CH2:V,,-4.09599971771,0.00552,-0.06800
Vertical Scale,CH1:0.00 CH2:0.05,,-4.09560012817,0.00552,-0.06800
Vertical Offset,CH1:-0.00472 CH2:-0.01700,,-4.09520006180,0.00536,-0.07000
Why do the first 8 csv samples have to be written up there, it's a bit of a pain!
Record Length,40000,,Source,CH1
Sample Interval,CH1:0.0000020000000,,Second,Volt
Vertical Units,CH1:V,,-0.02047999948,-1.46000,
Vertical Scale,CH1:0.50,,-0.02047800086,-1.50000,
Vertical Offset,CH1:0.00,,-0.02047600038,-1.48000,
Horizontal Units,s,,-0.02047399990,-1.48000,
Horizontal Scale,0.0010000000,,-0.02047199942,-1.50000,
Model Number,SDS110X,,-0.02047000080,-1.46000,
Serial Number,SDS10BA*******,,-0.02046800032,-1.48000,
Software Version,6.01.01.19,,-0.02046599984,-1.50000,
,,,-0.02046399936,-1.48000,
,,,-0.02046200074,-1.48000,
,,,-0.02046000026,1.54000,
,,,-0.02045799978,1.54000,
-
New units come with V6.01.01.20 firmware installed ! :o
Can't find it available on any Siglent websites and with the factory on hols for the Chinese NY we'll have to wait until they get back. :(
I'll be asking for a copy or link to get it from of course.
-
New units come with V6.01.01.20 firmware installed ! :o
.19 to .20 doesn't look like a big change, I suppose it could be fun trying to find the one thing that changed!
I'll search for it occasionally.
I'm surprised you've come across a new CML+.
-
New units come with V6.01.01.20 firmware installed ! :o
.19 to .20 doesn't look like a big change, I suppose it could be fun trying to find the one thing that changed!
Yes well it's apparently only a small change to optimize factory calibration. :(
I'm surprised you've come across a new CML+.
I got some in for the odd inquiry that wants a cheaper option than the X-E's.
I'll remind the factory again of their unfinished work here. ;)
-
I'll search for it occasionally.
Did you find and install it ?
Finally there's something recent from just a few weeks back:
Version 6.01.01.21R2
6 MB
Link:
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/19_09_25/c9287cea4f.zip
-
Did you find and install it ?
You sent me .20 on 24/1/19 so I've been using it since Feb. I've not noticed any changes (or fixes!) from .19.
Finally there's something recent from just a few weeks back:
Version 6.01.01.21R2
6 MB
Link: https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/19_09_25/c9287cea4f.zip
I'll try .21R2 in the next few days, it doesn't sound very exciting. ^-^