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Author Topic: Siglent SDG2000X vs Rigol DG1000Z  (Read 3963 times)

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Offline thewyliestcoyote

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Siglent SDG2000X vs Rigol DG1000Z
« on: September 10, 2015, 03:28:24 PM »
I am in the market for a arbitrary signal generator, 2 channel, deep as possible memory, supports modulation, and so on. Any one have a comparison of Siglent SDG2000x and the Rigol DG1000Z? or thoughts.

Thanks,
Wylie
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Siglent SDG2000X vs Rigol DG1000Z
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2015, 06:49:57 PM »
I am in the market for a arbitrary signal generator, 2 channel, deep as possible memory, supports modulation, and so on. Any one have a comparison of Siglent SDG2000x and the Rigol DG1000Z? or thoughts.

Well, the SDG2000X isn't even available (Siglent has officially launched the product but in a typical fashion for them it won't be available before somewhere late November earliest) so there won't be many reviews before then.

As an owner of a Rigol DG1062z I was interested in the SDG2000X myself as I wanted something better, but after looking closer at the SDG2000X I decided against it because of the following reasons:

  • The 1Gsa/s spec of the DSG2kx sounds great but that's for basic waveforms (sine, pulse, square) only, for Arbitrary Waveforms the sample rate drops to 300MSa/s (DDS) or even 75MSa/s (TrueArb) (and I also have my doubts that the 1GSa is true, or if they use some kind of oversampling instead)
  • Arbitrary Waveforms are limited to 20MHz on all models, probably because of the low sample rate
  • Siglent's UI isn't great (I looked at the manual), and despite having a pretty large display it can't even show both channels at the same time (Rigol can, and has a better UI that's even customizable)
  • Siglent has a long history of throwing products on the market with very bad firmware problems and then take forever to sort things out (if they do it at all); the Rigol was pretty much solid right from the beginning, plus Rigol seems better at fixing bugs
  • Siglent's waveform editor EasyWave is shockingly poor, even more so than the already poor Rigol equivalent, even though it's a pretty important part for an AWG

I guess if you're in for an AWG in this price class then the Siglent looks pretty attractive, not just because of the specs but also because of the available bandwidths which are higher than for the Rigol DG1000z. And at the end of the day it all depends on what you want to do with it.

But the Rigol is a pretty mature product with decent specs and a good UI, plus the SDG2000X isn't even available and may very well turn out to be another bugfest like the SDS2000, and considering Siglents history I wouldn't trust any assurances about their firmware being mature one bit unless it has been verified by some independent source.
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Offline Siglent America

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Re: Siglent SDG2000X vs Rigol DG1000Z
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2015, 01:32:40 AM »
I am in the market for a arbitrary signal generator, 2 channel, deep as possible memory, supports modulation, and so on. Any one have a comparison of Siglent SDG2000x and the Rigol DG1000Z? or thoughts.

Thanks,
Wylie

Hi Wylie,
I know several of our USA distributors have SDG2000X generators on order. The first large shipments are scheduled to arrive in mid-October. Some smaller shipments will arrive before then but I am guessing most of those units have already been sold. If you want to contact us at
info@Siglent.com
we can point you towards one or more of those distributors.

The sample rate for the DDS circuitry is, in fact, slower than 1.2 GS but the D/A converter is clocked at 1.2 GSa/s and interpolates (4X) the final waveform to smooth it and reduce distortion. This technique is described in a application note that will be available soon on Siglent's web site. We have applied for a patent on this technique.

Finally, the EasyWave software is fine for what is was designed to do - general purpose arbitrary waveform generation and editing, mathematical formula waveform generation, dual waveform math functions, etc. it was not designed to compete with some other software packages that have built in standard functions such as pulsed radar waveforms, Lorentz functions, etc.
 

Offline thewyliestcoyote

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Re: Siglent SDG2000X vs Rigol DG1000Z
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2015, 04:30:02 AM »
Quote
I guess if you're in for an AWG in this price class then the Siglent looks pretty attractive, not just because of the specs but also because of the available bandwidths which are higher than for the Rigol DG1000z. And at the end of the day it all depends on what you want to do with it.
You're right I should have done this upfront. I am mostly going to using this for signal generator for communications systems for a variety of application. Bandwidth is a plus, modulation is a big part, memory depth, also distortion are all kind of a big deal to me. I have a E4433B ESG-D RF signal generator and I for an external signal source. I am capped at 20 Mhz of bandwidth because of this. I had not caught that the rigol and the Siglent are both capped at 20 MHz of arb bandwidth. Thanks I am glad that I have found that.

Is it possible to use arb as the modulation source. Like lets say I have a sine wave at 50 MHz being modulating the phase from the loaded arb waveform?

This is just me, but the software is nice but it is not a deal killer. This is because all the waveforms that I use are generated programmatically using Python, or Matlab. If the software lets me load a waveform from a file great, but I am fine with doing it from a SCPI connection.

Quote
Hi Wylie,
I know several of our USA distributors have SDG2000X generators on order. The first large shipments are scheduled to arrive in mid-October. Some smaller shipments will arrive before then but I am guessing most of those units have already been sold. If you want to contact us at
info@Siglent.com

Thank you Siglent, I will be contacting you with some more questions about its features and functions.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG2000X vs Rigol DG1000Z
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2015, 04:45:44 AM »


Is it possible to use arb as the modulation source. Like lets say I have a sine wave at 50 MHz being modulating the phase from the loaded arb waveform?

In data sheet:

Phase modulation. (PM)

carrier: Sine, Square, Ramp, Arb



Modulation Source Internal:
Modulating wave:  Sine, Square, Ramp, Noise, Arb
Freq limits: 1mHz - 1MHz

Modulation source External.
Modulating wave:  External waveform. 0 - 50kHz

Deviation 0 - 360°
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDG2000X vs Rigol DG1000Z
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2015, 07:28:20 AM »
Any one have a comparison of Siglent SDG2000x and the Rigol DG1000Z?
Simple comparison from datasheet info:
E&OE

« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 08:16:21 AM by tautech »
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Siglent SDG2000X vs Rigol DG1000Z
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2015, 07:57:51 AM »
Quote
I guess if you're in for an AWG in this price class then the Siglent looks pretty attractive, not just because of the specs but also because of the available bandwidths which are higher than for the Rigol DG1000z. And at the end of the day it all depends on what you want to do with it.
You're right I should have done this upfront. I am mostly going to using this for signal generator for communications systems for a variety of application. Bandwidth is a plus, modulation is a big part, memory depth, also distortion are all kind of a big deal to me. I have a E4433B ESG-D RF signal generator and I for an external signal source. I am capped at 20 Mhz of bandwidth because of this. I had not caught that the rigol and the Siglent are both capped at 20 MHz of arb bandwidth. Thanks I am glad that I have found that.

The E4433B is nice (I have one myself, although it's out of service at the moment because of the common ALC/UNLEVEL problem in these generators), although the optional built-in AWG (option UND) is somewhat limited.

Quote
Is it possible to use arb as the modulation source. Like lets say I have a sine wave at 50 MHz being modulating the phase from the loaded arb waveform?

Yes, you should be able to modulate a 50MHz sine wave with the output from an arbitrary waveform.

Quote
This is just me, but the software is nice but it is not a deal killer. This is because all the waveforms that I use are generated programmatically using Python, or Matlab. If the software lets me load a waveform from a file great, but I am fine with doing it from a SCPI connection.

That's an advantage. However, just because the datasheet lists SCPI doesn't mean it will work as expected (if I remember right, Siglent's SDS2000 came with broken SCPI).

My recommendation would be whenever you buy kit from B-brands like Rigol or Siglent make sure you can return them when they're not working as expected, unless you want to pay now for a piece of equipment which may or may not work correctly and which comes with bugs that may or may not get fixed at some indefinite time in the future.
Brexit n - The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed.
 

Offline thewyliestcoyote

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Re: Siglent SDG2000X vs Rigol DG1000Z
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2015, 10:08:52 AM »
Quote
Quote
This is just me, but the software is nice but it is not a deal killer. This is because all the waveforms that I use are generated programmatically using Python, or Matlab. If the software lets me load a waveform from a file great, but I am fine with doing it from a SCPI connection.
That's an advantage. However, just because the datasheet lists SCPI doesn't mean it will work as expected (if I remember right, Siglent's SDS2000 came with broken SCPI).
Haha, I know that, that my experience with that was with the Agilent FieldFox VNA's a couple of years ago. They are fine now from my understanding.

Quote
The E4433B is nice (I have one myself, although it's out of service at the moment because of the common ALC/UNLEVEL problem in these generators), although the optional built-in AWG (option UND) is somewhat limited.
That is what I am noticing. I have UND and the RAM upgrade(UN9 I think) and I have UN8. I don't have this ALC/UNLEVEL problem yet and hope I don't get it.

Quote
My recommendation would be whenever you buy kit from B-brands like Rigol or Siglent make sure you can return them when they're not working as expected, unless you want to pay now for a piece of equipment which may or may not work correctly and which comes with bugs that may or may not get fixed at some indefinite time in the future.
Thanks, That is some good advice.

Many thanks tautech for the comparison. It is very helpful.

I can't seem to find a instrument under $3000ish that can do any kind of QAM type of modulation as a build in feature. Oh well I guess this is why I have a couple of Ettus B210's and HackRF's. Hint AWG manufactures at least one person in the world could use this feature lol.

Thanks everyone for the help and thoughts on the subject,

Best,
Wylie
 

Offline dadler

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Re: Siglent SDG2000X vs Rigol DG1000Z
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2015, 12:15:01 PM »
I can't seem to find a instrument under $3000ish that can do any kind of QAM type of modulation as a build in feature.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Keysight-Used-33522B-Waveform-Generator-30-MHz-2-Ch-Arb-Agilent-33522B-/171916023606?hash=item2806fe5736

I was able to get some off the price via the "make offer" option.
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Siglent SDG2000X vs Rigol DG1000Z
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2015, 03:22:44 PM »
Quote
The E4433B is nice (I have one myself, although it's out of service at the moment because of the common ALC/UNLEVEL problem in these generators), although the optional built-in AWG (option UND) is somewhat limited.
That is what I am noticing. I have UND and the RAM upgrade(UN9 I think) and I have UN8. I don't have this ALC/UNLEVEL problem yet and hope I don't get it.

Unfortunately it seems all of the old ESGs will sooner or later suffer from that problem, however it's not difficult to fix (replace a MMIC on the RF board).

Quote
I can't seem to find a instrument under $3000ish that can do any kind of QAM type of modulation as a build in feature.

Have a look at the Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ:
http://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_news_from_rs/166/166_smiq.pdf
and
http://www.fer.unizg.hr/_download/repository/R_S_SMIQ03B_specs.pdf

It's R&S' equivalent to the Agilent ESG-D but with generally better specs and wider support of communication standards, and it supports QAM modulation with symbol rates up to 18MHz (the ESG tops out at 12.5MHz if I remember right). Have a look at the specs to see if the device would suffice. The SMIQs are pretty reliable (their only weak point is the metal-coated display glass, which over time starts to become discolored and ugly on the border), plus have a much better display than the ESGs. I know you're not interested in the software but there's also a pretty good software (R&S WinIQSIM) available for free for it:

http://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_news_from_rs/171/n_rus171_amiq.pdf

With some luck and patience you should be able to find an SMIQ for relatively little money.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 03:25:06 PM by Wuerstchenhund »
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Siglent SDG2000X vs Rigol DG1000Z
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2015, 03:34:29 PM »
Any one have a comparison of Siglent SDG2000x and the Rigol DG1000Z?
Simple comparison from datasheet info:
E&OE



There are errors/omissions in this list, i.e. the Rigol DG1000z can be software upgraded to 16Mpts per channel.

Also, as we found out, the 1.2GSa/s sample rate of the SDG2000X is, in fact, just an oversampling of a lower unspecified sample rate (I'd guess its 300MSa/s, as this seems to be their DDS sample rate), plus the oversampled 1.2GSa/s rate is only available for standard waveforms and not for arbitrary signals (which is what Wylie seems to be looking for), so listing it as 1.2GSa/s vs 300MSa/s is a bit disingenuous.

I'm also be a bit suspicious if the listed 16bit resolution is truly 16bit, or just some interpolated variant of a lower resolution signal.

Until the SDG2000X is actually available and has been examined by someone independent this might be all smoke and mirrors.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 03:41:55 PM by Wuerstchenhund »
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