Author Topic: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions  (Read 14975 times)

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Offline hgg

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SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« on: May 16, 2013, 05:23:17 AM »
Hello,

I received today my first oscilloscope and I am really excited!   :)
Its a really nice tool.

The quality of its construction is quite good actually.  The plastics feel nice, and do not have any
annoying smell.  The knobs are very good, except the small ones that could have been a bit more
solid.


photo hosting

I had no problem with the layout of the knobs apart from the general purpose (intensity/adjust)
that is too close to the big vertical Volts dial.  They had so much space above it, but they decided
to put it as close as they could to the vertical...   Go figure...


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The big knobs feel very nice indeed and I love that they all have a push to center function.
It would have been a lot better design if all the knobs were the same as they big ones!
All the little rubber buttons are great, they have a positive feel and they are very well lit.
The On/Off switch is very springy and quite hard to press.


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All the connectors, USB, BNC, etc  feel solid.  Very nice.


how to do a screen shot

The display is very crisp and has excellent viewing angles.  You can see the pixels, so in the
same space they could have used a higher resolution one.  The display is for bench use only
because it goes dark fast if you look at it from below the horizontal.  From any other angle
its excellent!  I have not yet removed the protective cover from the screen but it looks like
that the lcd is protected with a glass.  Very nice.

The little plastic feet work fine.  When they are closed, the unit feels like that will fall on its
face because its a bit heavy in front.  So, you should use it all the time with the plastic feet
extended.

The probes feel a little cheap and fragile and this is probably because they are...   :)
Having said that, I did not have any problems with them all day today.  Maybe they will
show their quality in the Mhz range.  They were calibrated very easily.


image hosting 12mb


Some measurements.

- Power Consumption : 18.7 Watts
- Temperature : from 23 degrees Celcius ambient to 34 degrees after one hour of use.
                         The hottest part is the right side.
- Time to boot : 9 seconds.
- Time to Auto trigget its own signal : 5 seconds.   It can become much slower with different signals.
- You can hear a relay clicking when you change from 200mV to 500mV and from 50ns to 100ns
- Software Version  :  5.01.02.13
- Hardware Version :  11-62-3.3
- Sound Noise : Its a very quiet oscilloscope!  My house is very quite.  From a background noise
                         floor of 34.3dbC it goes to 49.6dbC 20cm from the actual fan.


One negative thing I found in the few hours I've played with it is that if you switch it off and then on
with a USB stick plugged in, it will not recognize it until you unplug it and plug it again.
Very annoying!  I think that this should be fixed in the next firmware version.

Other negative is that when you turn the vertical and horizontal dials, the indicator lines are lagging.
They are not instant and the waveform takes some time to be displayed again.  Definitely something
that needs to be fixed.

Some screen captures of different signals:

Its own 1kHz signal:

image hosting over 10mb

Several PWM ones:

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Bellow you can see a very nice sinewave with the probes not connected to anything...
50Hz, so its picking the mains frequency somehow.
Do you know how can I prevent this?
When I moved it to a different room it stopped.


upload photos

Now if I switch on the main light of the room I get the following signal.
Its not like that actually, because if I turn on 5sec persistence  I can see two different 50hz signals.
I can also see spikes when I turn on & off some lights in the room.


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So, these are my first impressions of the oscilloscope and I would have to say that in general
they are positive.   :-+

If you have any questions that I can help with, please feel free to ask.
Any suggestions for testing the oscilloscope functionality are welcomed.

Thank you.
George.



Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2013, 06:03:36 AM »
A nice basic scope. Quite similar to Rigol DS1000, but the screen and front panel is better. It even has print and single button.  :-+
Amazing machines. http://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)

Online Wuerstchenhund

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Re: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2013, 06:25:50 AM »
Nice review and great pictures! Saves me doing one for my Siglent SDS1102CNL (which is the same the CML minus the large 2M memory).

Quote
The probes feel a little cheap and fragile

Yes, the probes are really very cheap and flimsy, and probably won't survive long. I guess for all the money they put into the scope to make it good for that price they probably had to cut corners somewhere. But good standard probes (ie Testec) aren't that expensive so I don't think this is a major issue.

Aside from the problems you already mentioned, I also found some idiocracy in their logic for the RUN/STOP and SINGLE button. If you press RUN/STOP the scope stops its acquisition cycle as expected. But if you press RUN/STOP again it only does a single sweep. You have to actually press SINGLE to get the scope going again.

Maybe we should collect all the issues and then pester Siglent together for them to fix the problems.


Offline rf-loop

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Re: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2013, 06:29:19 AM »
Hello,

 I have not yet removed the protective cover from the screen but it looks like
that the lcd is protected with a glass.  Very nice.

The probes feel a little cheap and fragile and this is probably because they are...   :)
Having said that, I did not have any problems with them all day today.  Maybe they will
show their quality in the Mhz range.  They were calibrated very easily.

Other negative is that when you turn the vertical and horizontal dials, the indicator lines are lagging.
They are not instant and the waveform takes some time to be displayed again.  Definitely something
that needs to be fixed.

Bellow you can see a very nice sinewave with the probes not connected to anything...
50Hz, so its picking the mains frequency somehow.
Do you know how can I prevent this?
When I moved it to a different room it stopped.

Now if I switch on the main light of the room I get the following signal.
Its not like that actually, because if I turn on 5sec persistence  I can see two different 50hz signals.
I can also see spikes when I turn on & off some lights in the room.

Thank you.
George.

There is real true glass. You can take protective plastic off.

Probes are cheap and not best possible mechanically (and electrically they are just as chap probe is, no complex passive compensation circuits, not high class resistive coaxial...etc)).  And rotary joint to scope end BNC  is not very strong construction. But freq response is quite ok, as can see one my BW test image made using probe.

There is limit of processing capacity. With it need live. It is hard to make this faster. Of course if change  priority of processes but then perhaps some other thing suffer. It is compromise.

You see signals without connecting... just from "air"... ok, try with one meter wire as antenna...
If it do not pick-up electric field signals there is something wrong - and badly. This is just normal, take what ever oscilloscope and High-Z probes. Scope input is under 20pF and 1Mohm. Probe tip with 10x is 10Mohm (with small  parallel capasitance what do not mean anything with 50Hz) I'm very worry if it do not pick up these signals. Why it show 2 (or more) traces with persistence.. becouse signal have lot of variations and it trigs sometimes where ever. Just normal.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 06:35:47 AM by rf-loop »
EU: Siglent and some selected Owon models what we have adopted. All with our lab deep Q.C. in Finland.  Also surplus test equipments.  Repair and modification service.  Local Owon SDS-Series and Siglent  repair service for our customers.  We do not sell outside EU.
(aka: aghp, aghp55)

Online Wuerstchenhund

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Re: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2013, 06:38:27 AM »
There is limit of processing capacity. With it need live. It is hard to make this faster. Of course if change  priority of processes but then perhaps some other thing suffer. It is compromise.

I don't think the delay between changing the time base or vertical setting and the time when the trace re-appears is a problem with processing capacity. It's much more likely that this is just a firmware bug. The scope is quite fast and this problem only occurs sometimes (at least on my CNL scope). I'm pretty sure Siglent can fix it easily in one of their next firmware releases - if they are aware of the problem, that is.

Offline rf-loop

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Re: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2013, 06:51:35 AM »
There is limit of processing capacity. With it need live. It is hard to make this faster. Of course if change  priority of processes but then perhaps some other thing suffer. It is compromise.

I don't think the delay between changing the time base or vertical setting and the time when the trace re-appears is a problem with processing capacity. It's much more likely that this is just a firmware bug. The scope is quite fast and this problem only occurs sometimes (at least on my CNL scope). I'm pretty sure Siglent can fix it easily in one of their next firmware releases - if they are aware of the problem, that is.

Yes, of course also I hope it is as you think.


Btw, I know one "feature" in SDG FW and I just now have idea (perhaps wrong) it is propably same kind of reason... perhaps.  (there is my suspect that some lag in UI in SDG in some situations is related to user actual settings updating to setup memory (continuously) for next start up (if this feature is selected), and perhaps they have done it wrong way in SDG and now I just think if it is possible reason for this  lag.. ) Oscilloscope keep record about user settings. Next time you turn scope ON it use settings you last used. Diffrent scopes do this different way. Some scopes have several seconds period, some perhaps try do it always you change something. Some scopes have setting where you can select if next time it use factory default or "last".
Now I feel that it is possible this is somehow related to this.
 
In Siglent SDG1000 generator, if you select start up last settings it slows dramatically some adjustments, perhaps it store every change?
There need be some compromise.  Owon write settings to memory using perhaps too long period. If you change someting and soon shut off, it have not stored this new adjustment. Hantek use more short period for this. 

But, all this is now only mutual suspect about one possible reason for this in SDS1000 scopes. 
If it is this or not, I hope they add selection. Startup using "factory default" or "last state" or "setup memory number n".
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 03:23:16 PM by rf-loop »
EU: Siglent and some selected Owon models what we have adopted. All with our lab deep Q.C. in Finland.  Also surplus test equipments.  Repair and modification service.  Local Owon SDS-Series and Siglent  repair service for our customers.  We do not sell outside EU.
(aka: aghp, aghp55)

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2013, 09:27:27 AM »


Aside from the problems you already mentioned, I also found some idiocracy in their logic for the RUN/STOP and SINGLE button. If you press RUN/STOP the scope stops its acquisition cycle as expected. But if you press RUN/STOP again it only does a single sweep. You have to actually press SINGLE to get the scope going again.
Really??   :wtf:
Amazing machines. http://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)

Online rstoer

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Re: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2013, 10:31:33 AM »
It looks nice. Thanks for posting the photos. Best of luck with it!

Offline hgg

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Re: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2013, 04:07:04 PM »
You are welcome!

Hydrawerk, the Print button is indeed very handy!

Wuerstchenhund it is a bit strange the way they are using the Single button. 
That confused me in the beginning.  Can you suggest which Testec probes will be good for this scope?

I removed the protective screen film and yes, its real glass.   :-+  for that

Another 'fault' in the UI is that when you press the Measurement button, it displays on the right
side 5 user selected measurements which is very handy, but labels and numbers all have the
same white colour!  How difficult is to think that if you use a different colour for the labels it will
be much more easily readable ???...   Come on... Simple things that make a difference.
They also should have used double lines for each measurement. 
Easier to see and space for 7 handy measurements.



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rf-loop I am playing with solar panels, and a 50hz sine wave is been displayed while
the probes are connected to its terminals and with the room lights off.  Only ambient light.
The scope is in AC coupling, 20mV, 5ms and the waveform is 180mV peak to peak.  If I use
the same setup on a different room, then its ok.   Strange.

Below its the same setup but with one room light on and 2sec persistence.
Can anybody decode what is happening???


how to do a screen shot

Another thing I noticed was that the frequency measurements I did with the Siglent and
the UT61E were exactly the same down to 2 decimal places!  Not bad.


Online Wuerstchenhund

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Re: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2013, 06:28:55 PM »
Wuerstchenhund it is a bit strange the way they are using the Single button. 
That confused me in the beginning. 

It's probably not even by intention. As I said, I suspect this is just a bug.

Quote
Can you suggest which Testec probes will be good for this scope?

I once had some TT-MF312 (1x/10x, 250MHz) probes which were really good, but I guess for this scope even the TT-LF312 (1x/10x, 150MHz) should be sufficient.

Quote
Another 'fault' in the UI is that when you press the Measurement button, it displays on the right side 5 user selected measurements which is very handy, but labels and numbers all have the
same white colour! 

I don't really like the measurement boxes in the menue area (which should be limited to settings that can be changed, and not mixed with display of information). They should have placed them somewhere else, i.e. as a column on the left side of the screen or on the bottom.

Quote
They also should have used double lines for each measurement. 
Easier to see and space for 7 handy measurements.

For the "All" measurements they should have reduced the vertical graticule and put them as a block on the bottom, not having them hover in the middle of the waveform area, or again as a column on the left side of the screen (reducing the graticule length,

I also miss an indication of the current sample rate in the screen area (it's annoying to have to go into the aquisition menu, where the sample rate sits there as a menu point which suggests it can be altered by pressing on the associated soft key, which it can't.).

In addition, I also don't like that, when you switch off the menu by pressing MENU ON/OFF, the selected menu section (i.e. AQUISITION) remains illuminated even if the manu is switched off. The button should only be illuminated when the related menu is active, i.e. visible.

Offline hgg

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Re: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2013, 06:32:52 PM »
Wuerstchenhund, you are right.  Exactly!  I totally agree with all the above!

Offline rf-loop

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Re: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2013, 06:40:15 PM »

In addition, I also don't like that, when you switch off the menu by pressing MENU ON/OFF, the selected menu section (i.e. AQUISITION) remains illuminated even if the manu is switched off. The button should only be illuminated when the related menu is active, i.e. visible.

Are you sure? ;)

Perhaps after few days you find reason why...
(you turn off menu only from display area but... )
EU: Siglent and some selected Owon models what we have adopted. All with our lab deep Q.C. in Finland.  Also surplus test equipments.  Repair and modification service.  Local Owon SDS-Series and Siglent  repair service for our customers.  We do not sell outside EU.
(aka: aghp, aghp55)

Offline hgg

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Re: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2013, 06:54:14 PM »
Actually this might be handy, because if you press the 5 vertical display buttons
you would already know their function by looking at which option is lit.

Offline rf-loop

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Re: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2013, 07:09:59 PM »
It need think what is information. (menu led)

If only meaning is that led is on if menu is open visible on the screen and off if menu is not visible on the screen what information this led is for - nothing.  Situation  can know if just look display. So.. it can think, do it include some information. If only informatoin is show that menu is on or off on the TFT  this information can get if look TFT and this led can take off and save manufacture  costs some  tenth of jiao.

Menu can be displayed on the screen or it can be hide, also including this that meny can disappear from display automatically. You can shut off menu display automatically or manually but still this menu is active (but not on the screen area).  Also if display go screen save, still you can see what menu there is active and push button and do "blindly" setting in this active menu. This led is not there without reason. It give information, even if selected menu is not displayed.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 07:14:06 PM by rf-loop »
EU: Siglent and some selected Owon models what we have adopted. All with our lab deep Q.C. in Finland.  Also surplus test equipments.  Repair and modification service.  Local Owon SDS-Series and Siglent  repair service for our customers.  We do not sell outside EU.
(aka: aghp, aghp55)

Online Wuerstchenhund

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Re: SIGLENT SDS1102CML - First Impressions
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2013, 07:23:06 PM »
Are you sure? ;)

Perhaps after few days you find reason why...
(you turn off menu only from display area but... )

Yes, I am sure. It's common logic in good user interfaces that for such functions buttons are only lit to indicate that the specific function is active. If you switch of the menu via MENU ON/OFF then this is no longer the case.

Actually this might be handy, because if you press the 5 vertical display buttons
you would already know their function by looking at which option is lit.

The thing is that when the menu is switched off the soft keys should not work (I assume they don't, which is the correct behavior; I haven't tried it yet). Having them working with no menu displayed is nonsensical, especially since many menu areas have more than one layer.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 07:32:55 PM by Wuerstchenhund »


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