Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?  (Read 15934 times)

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Offline KungFuJosh

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Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« on: August 19, 2018, 03:53:42 am »
Hi,

I'm curious about the Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z. I understand the main differences, and the two things that peak my interest are that, from what I've read, the FFT appears to be better on the Siglent, and the Siglent has double the sampling rate in multi-channel use.

My question is, for my uses, does it matter? Is the Siglent really worth the extra cash?

I'm primarily using a scope on tube guitar amplifiers, microphones, and sometimes guitar effect pedals. Anything beyond that will be out of curiosity or for fun and not essential. Even the FFT function will probably only be out of curiosity, but it may prove useful. I don't know yet.

I've already purchased the DS1054Z and have the official upgrades on it (and I like it), but I'm within the return period and a lot of people on this site have been pushing that Siglent model. I think probably both models are overkill for my needs, but I really know very little about oscilloscopes, so please let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Josh
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2018, 07:21:10 am »
Consider the Siglent as a base 'platform' for the other functionality it has. Sure vs the Rigol it offers better performance but what else it's capable of can be worth the extra $ when/if you get to need it.
Say you want a 25 MHz AWG, or WiFi, or 16ch MSO, it's the base platform to support those capabilities.

Only you can make that decision.
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Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2018, 09:28:20 am »
hi, I have a ds1054z, totally released, I'm really very concoforme for u $ s 330. I do not think that siglent sds1104 is the big difference, if I needed to analyze FFT I would acquire a spectrum analyzer, I bought it a few months ago, and I gave account that everyone recommends with money from others, if you have 400 of recommend for 800 and so it is always, buy what you need, if you serve the siglent, rigol, etc. you only know the use you are going to give.

P.S. do not forget that there are many people who are, I do not know why, I had a little problem, and the Chinese, put good will until the problem was solved, a month after being corrected I received an email if I had been satisfied.

in spanish
hola, yo tengo un ds1054z, totalmente liberado, realmente estoy muy concoforme por u$s 330. no creo que siglent  sds1104 sea la gran diferencia, si  yo precisara analidar FFT adquiriria un analizador de espectro, lo compre hase unos meses, y me di cuenta que todos recomiendan con dinero ajeno, si tenes 400 de recomiendan por 800 y asi es siempre, compra lo que precises, si te sirve el siglent, rigol, etc. vos solo sabes el uso que vas dar.

PD. no te olvides que hay mucha gente que esta encontra, no se porque, yo tuve un problemita, y los chinos, pusieron buena voluntad hasta  que se soluciono el problema, un mes despues de corregido recibi un correo de si habia quedado satisfecho.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2018, 11:02:58 am »
One other question: I read somebody comment somewhere that supposedly the Siglent probes with the 1104X-E are better than the Rigol probes with the 1054Z.

Is this true? Obviously good probe quality helps make up the difference in cost.

Thanks,
Josh
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2018, 11:11:26 am »
Consider the Siglent as a base 'platform' for the other functionality it has. Sure vs the Rigol it offers better performance but what else it's capable of can be worth the extra $ when/if you get to need it.
Say you want a 25 MHz AWG, or WiFi, or 16ch MSO, it's the base platform to support those capabilities.

Only you can make that decision.

TBH your response makes me feel pretty comfortable keeping the Rigol. You're talking about spending $170 extra for the scope, then spending about $400 more for the wifi and awg with the software for them. That's $900 instead of the $330 I invested in the Rigol.

In most cases I'll be using single channel, so the better performance won't exist outside of the FFT that I'm still not sure I'm going to use.

I appreciate the sales pitch though.  ;)

Thanks,
Josh
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2018, 12:55:15 pm »
No sales pitch Josh, just hard facts !

OK so the WIfi is not for everybody and you might never want/need it.
The AWG and 16ch MSO are another matter IF you ever have the need for either. Instead of needing to purchase other standalone products you can add this functionality and again if/when required and without sacrificing little in the way of precious bench space.
None of this may mean much to your use case however it does to others.

A customer not long after these 4ch X-E were released inquired about a budget 4ch DSO and AWG. As he had some previous electronic experience and was just getting back into it, after considering the cost of two items against a single package plus options, guess which one he took ?
Each have different needs.
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2018, 12:59:23 pm »
It should be noted that the extra's you mention are fairly expensive. I don't think the AWG that's supposed to go with the oscilloscopes makes much sense considering what it costs compared to discrete AWGs.
 
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Offline cprosser

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2018, 02:23:13 pm »
I have the Siglent 1104x-e. I got it mainly because I putter with mixed signal work, and I wanted the Web UI so if my back was bothering I could use it from my computer.

But given what you do, I think the Rigol sounds like a great tool for you. 

If you ever need a logic analyzer, you can pick up an 8 channel one off amazon for $10 and use it with sigrok.
 
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Offline bugi

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2018, 08:17:13 pm »
It should be noted that the extra's you mention are fairly expensive. I don't think the AWG that's supposed to go with the oscilloscopes makes much sense considering what it costs compared to discrete AWGs.
This is what I have been wondering, too. In most cases that I have read through (i.e. not on the expensive end of scopes), many of the options are often very simple implementations and even less capable than what a separate $50 item could do (excluding display, power supply and memory costs for fairer comparison, since on the scopes those "come free" already), yet the scope vendors happily charge hundreds for them.

Even more weird is how basically the same option will cost e.g. $250 on one scope series, and $750 on another, latter apparently simply because the base scope was already $6000. Considering that for the simpler options the likely cost for the manufacturer (including amortized design/engineering costs) would be closer to $20, I'd simply make many of those features to be included in the base price on the higher-end devices.

Well, I guess it is not stupid to ask for high price, but stupid to pay it :P

There could be buyers or use cases where buying those relatively expensive options is still beneficial. But there would be much much more of such cases if they were priced in a sensible level. But maybe that would then cut the sales of the manufacturer's separate devices (which definitely do not sell at $50, but at least they'd have more of features, bells and whistles to justify the price levels).

Personally, I waited for a campaign where all the options were included in the base price (tells something about the manufacturer's real costs and profit margins), but it is not guaranteed that such bargains happen in a reasonable time frame, or even ever again (at least for particular scope series).


On the original topic, I'd try to get more information on the general usability on the more commonly used features (the ones you use "all the time"). E.g. something as simple as triggers.  On the paper they might have a fancy set of triggers, but in reality, 80% will not be of any use (for a particular user), and the remaining ones should work without issues and be easily adjustable. E.g. on my Siglent, I bumped about every few hours of using it to a case where the trigger simply didn't trigger when it should, and I needed to spend few minutes to figure out settings and workarounds to get some kind of useful triggering to happen. Granted, the issues tend to happen in somewhat "tough" situation, but still, looking at the display, it _should_ have had plenty enough good data to have triggered. I'd gladly trade 20% of FFT goodness to better triggering :P

(Note: I haven't yet tested that trigger problem (or actually any of the issues I have wrote down) with the latest firmware, so.. there is a small chance it has been improved/fixed.)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 08:21:04 pm by bugi »
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2018, 09:11:45 pm »
E.g. on my Siglent, I bumped about every few hours of using it to a case where the trigger simply didn't trigger when it should, and I needed to spend few minutes to figure out settings and workarounds to get some kind of useful triggering to happen. Granted, the issues tend to happen in somewhat "tough" situation, but still, looking at the display, it _should_ have had plenty enough good data to have triggered.

Can you explain this situation with some detailed documents about real signal and test setup etc and including scope model and FW also.
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2018, 09:36:28 pm »
Personally, I waited for a campaign where all the options were included in the base price (tells something about the manufacturer's real costs and profit margins), but it is not guaranteed that such bargains happen in a reasonable time frame, or even ever again (at least for particular scope series).

Out of curiosity, which scope did you go with?
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2018, 09:49:39 pm »
No sales pitch Josh, just hard facts !

OK so the WIfi is not for everybody and you might never want/need it.
The AWG and 16ch MSO are another matter IF you ever have the need for either. Instead of needing to purchase other standalone products you can add this functionality and again if/when required and without sacrificing little in the way of precious bench space.
None of this may mean much to your use case however it does to others.

I was just teasing you. ;)

BTW- I didn't include the MSO in that $900 price. That's even more $$$.

For my needs, I'm using a Tenma 72-505 audio generator that I got from Newark for $34. It produces clean waveforms, and it's battery powered so it's floated and I don't have to worry about ground loops. If I ever need a pulse signal, I bought a signal generator app on Windows for $2.49 that also produces clean waveforms through my USB soundcard.
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Offline bugi

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2018, 01:52:01 am »
E.g. on my Siglent, I bumped about every few hours of using it to a case where the trigger simply didn't trigger when it should, and I needed to spend few minutes to figure out settings and workarounds to get some kind of useful triggering to happen. Granted, the issues tend to happen in somewhat "tough" situation, but still, looking at the display, it _should_ have had plenty enough good data to have triggered.

Can you explain this situation with some detailed documents about real signal and test setup etc and including scope model and FW also.
Once I get the time to retest the issues I have seen previously, but now on the latest firmware, I'll certainly provide the info about any remaining issues. I tried to write down them as well as I could at the time, exactly for this purpose. (But don't hold breath, it is the last day of my summer vacation, and who knows what kind of pile is waiting at work tomorrow...)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 02:16:50 am by bugi »
 

Offline bugi

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2018, 02:14:24 am »
Personally, I waited for a campaign where all the options were included in the base price (tells something about the manufacturer's real costs and profit margins), but it is not guaranteed that such bargains happen in a reasonable time frame, or even ever again (at least for particular scope series).

Out of curiosity, which scope did you go with?
Siglent SDS2304X. That is, not one of these nice new entry-level choices, don't even remember if either or both were available at the time.

I think I need to clarify that I did not wait for that specific campaign/bundle (I didn't even know what or if anything would be coming). I just waited for something of a bargain, e.g. a pure discount could have been used to buy at least some of the options (with "saved" money), and in my case it happened to result with the mentioned bundle. During that campaign the lower bandwidth variants got a bandwidth increase to next higher bw variant instead.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 05:58:20 am by bugi »
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2018, 05:25:20 am »
Does anybody have any opinions on the probes that come with the two units?

Does anybody think there's a different model I should be considering?
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2018, 06:25:34 am »
Does anybody have any opinions on the probes that come with the two units?

Does anybody think there's a different model I should be considering?
The GW Instek GDS-1054B is cheap and it can be hacked through software to get decoding. The firmware of this oscilloscope is mature so it will work as advertised. The Siglent is likely to be 'work in progress' so you should really check the relevant threads to see if any of the outstanding issues affects your use case.
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2018, 06:38:24 am »
No sales pitch Josh, just hard facts !

OK so the WIfi is not for everybody and you might never want/need it.
The AWG and 16ch MSO are another matter IF you ever have the need for either. Instead of needing to purchase other standalone products you can add this functionality and again if/when required and without sacrificing little in the way of precious bench space.
None of this may mean much to your use case however it does to others.

I was just teasing you. ;)

BTW- I didn't include the MSO in that $900 price. That's even more $$$.

For my needs, I'm using a Tenma 72-505 audio generator that I got from Newark for $34. It produces clean waveforms, and it's battery powered so it's floated and I don't have to worry about ground loops. If I ever need a pulse signal, I bought a signal generator app on Windows for $2.49 that also produces clean waveforms through my USB soundcard.
Tease if you must but it appears you haven't done as much research as you could have.
In this thread are the comparison between probes:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1434665/#msg1434665

If you really want to get a handle on these 4ch X-E's start studying that thread in full and you'll likely end up in this tread where additional specs and capabilities are explored where you can see why the additional cost of SDS1104X-E can return a DSO that will better meet the needs of a user as their experience grows.
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/

We do this stuff as many don't seem to be able to get to grips with datasheets and understand the advanced capabilities the 4ch X-E's offer to the entry level marketplace.
I won't go on as everything you need to know is in the 2 threads linked above.
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2018, 07:32:44 am »
Tease if you must but it appears you haven't done as much research as you could have.
In this thread are the comparison between probes:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1434665/#msg1434665

If you really want to get a handle on these 4ch X-E's start studying that thread in full and you'll likely end up in this tread where additional specs and capabilities are explored where you can see why the additional cost of SDS1104X-E can return a DSO that will better meet the needs of a user as their experience grows.
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/

We do this stuff as many don't seem to be able to get to grips with datasheets and understand the advanced capabilities the 4ch X-E's offer to the entry level marketplace.
I won't go on as everything you need to know is in the 2 threads linked above.

That thread doesn't compare the Rigol probes to the Siglent probes. It's nice that the Siglent probes perform well compared to others, but it doesn't tell me anything about what I asked.

Datasheets are great, but they also don't tell me about real world experience. That's what forums like this are for. When I asked for opinions of what might be better for MY USE - primarily tube guitar amps - then that's what I'd like to hear opinions about.

No offense, but I would prefer some less biased opinions be voiced.
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2018, 08:15:37 am »
No offense, but I would prefer some less biased opinions be voiced.

No offense but, with comments like this last msg, the only opinions you'll be hearing are your own. You asked for opinions and people give them for free, you choose the ones that interest you. No reason to criticise/attack them. If you have a prebuit decision-tree or a choice-matrix then you better "insert coin".
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2018, 08:19:59 am »
No offense but, with comments like this last msg, the only opinions you'll be hearing are your own. You asked for opinions and people give them for free, you choose the ones that interest you. No reason to criticise/attack them. If you have a prebuit decision-tree or a choice-matrix then you better "insert coin".

Sorry, but I get frustrated when I'm trying to get information and a clearly biased representative for a company starts info dumping and selling a product, without actually reading my question, or producing relevant information.

I thought I'd be able to find unbiased, experienced, and useful opinions here, but maybe not if all I'm going to get is attitude and sales pitches.  :wtf:
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2018, 08:32:26 am »
Tease if you must but it appears you haven't done as much research as you could have.
In this thread are the comparison between probes:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1434665/#msg1434665

If you really want to get a handle on these 4ch X-E's start studying that thread in full and you'll likely end up in this tread where additional specs and capabilities are explored where you can see why the additional cost of SDS1104X-E can return a DSO that will better meet the needs of a user as their experience grows.
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/

We do this stuff as many don't seem to be able to get to grips with datasheets and understand the advanced capabilities the 4ch X-E's offer to the entry level marketplace.
I won't go on as everything you need to know is in the 2 threads linked above.

That thread doesn't compare the Rigol probes to the Siglent probes. It's nice that the Siglent probes perform well compared to others, but it doesn't tell me anything about what I asked.
OK, sorry I've led you off on a tangent.
WRT the probes for each, some have had bad experiences with the grabbers not staying on and I have too with Siglent ones but it's more likely user error from not pressing them home properly so they won't fall off.

Anyways, probes need be considered as consumables and should not be a major factor in deciding which scope to buy, at least in this price bracket. Most likely entry level probes are sourced from the same 3rd party supplier for both Rigol and Siglent.
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2018, 08:35:53 am »
Anyways, probes need be considered as consumables and should not be a major factor in deciding which scope to buy, at least in this price bracket. Most likely entry level probes are sourced from the same 3rd party supplier for both Rigol and Siglent.

Thanks, that's good advice, I hadn't thought of it that way. Is there a particular probe model you like?

Thanks,
Josh
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2018, 09:11:10 am »
Anyways, probes need be considered as consumables and should not be a major factor in deciding which scope to buy, at least in this price bracket. Most likely entry level probes are sourced from the same 3rd party supplier for both Rigol and Siglent.

Thanks, that's good advice, I hadn't thought of it that way. Is there a particular probe model you like?

Thanks,
Josh
In this price bracket and relatively low BW they're all much of a muchness but each are selected as best for a particular model DSO. The post I linked before demonstrates this.
Most like fixed attenuation probes, they can be smaller and more pleasant to use but again there can be issues with insufficient sensitivity using only 10x probes and also accuracy if the lowest input attenuation settings of a DSO are just a magnification of some higher vertical input setting.

For what most do with a scope anything reasonable can be fine, even the amazingly cheap P6100's from eBay.
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Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2018, 06:35:29 pm »
I thought I'd be able to find unbiased, experienced, and useful opinions here

Nope. Mostly religion and Siglent dealers posting here.

For about three years the Rigol was way out on it's own in terms of bang/buck.

Now the Siglent has arrived, Rigol finally has a competitor but it's also about 40% more money. The price difference tells you everything you really need to know.

Me? I say two things:
a) Four channels good, two channels bad.
b) The difference between owning an oscilloscope/not owning an oscilloscope is like night and day. The difference between Rigol and Siglent? Nowhere near as much. Sure, the Siglent is nicer, but for for the same price you can have a Rigol plus a decent soldering iron or power supply and a couple of ANENG multimeters. If you're just starting out then that seems a better deal, a decent soldering iron or power supply will make a much bigger difference to your life than owning a Siglent will.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 07:03:31 pm by Fungus »
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2018, 09:55:51 pm »
I thought I'd be able to find unbiased, experienced, and useful opinions here

Nope. Mostly religion and Siglent dealers posting here.

For about three years the Rigol was way out on it's own in terms of bang/buck.

Now the Siglent has arrived, Rigol finally has a competitor but it's also about 40% more money. The price difference tells you everything you really need to know.

Me? I say two things:
a) Four channels good, two channels bad.
b) The difference between owning an oscilloscope/not owning an oscilloscope is like night and day. The difference between Rigol and Siglent? Nowhere near as much. Sure, the Siglent is nicer, but for for the same price you can have a Rigol plus a decent soldering iron or power supply and a couple of ANENG multimeters. If you're just starting out then that seems a better deal, a decent soldering iron or power supply will make a much bigger difference to your life than owning a Siglent will.

Can we talk about politics too? ;)

I'm not starting out, I've had a bench setup for a couple decades, but put off buying a scope because I didn't need one right away and then didn't know what to get, and didn't want an old school scope (which is all I really need, but I like newer tech). These days I have an Aoyue 2703A+ iron, and it's great. Toroid ISB-060W isolation transformer, a Tekpower TP3005P power supply, and lots of other little test equipment for my needs. So it really comes down to what scope will suit me without being wasteful.

I recently bought the DS1054Z and a Tenma 72-505 audio generator (the Tenma is great, and all I need for guitar amp testing). My question is whether the Siglent will really benefit me enough that I should return the Rigol and pay more for the Siglent. So far the only 2 real world benefits I see for my uses are 1. it looks prettier (I like the simplicity of the layout) and 2. the web interface is cool (even though I probably won't ever use it much if at all). The better multi-channel sampling rate is an obvious plus, but where I'm mostly using 1 channel at a time, I won't normally benefit enough for the investment for that alone. I'm certainly not going to invest in the Siglent add-ons, at that point I'd rather invest in another scope.

Thanks,
Josh

« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 12:30:40 am by KungFuJosh »
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