Siglent SDS1104X-E vs SDS1204X-E - bandwidth

[EsEsEl_Please]

Recently I ordered a Siglent SDS1104X-E from Saelig.  Now I gotta wait for stock to come in shortly.
I am working with I2C, SPI, and a few other interfaces sometimes up to 40-50MHz.   I would like some headroom to grow into and am considering maybe asking to upgrade to the SDS1204X-E.

• Will there be a practical difference in viewing/decoding those signals between the two scopes?
• It seems that square waves beyond say 50MHz don't look all that great even on the SDS1204X-E.  Is this due to the 1 GS/s bandwidth per ADC or something else?
• Will the cheaper PP510 probes limit me on the SDS1104X-E?
• What difference is there between the two scopes besides the SDS1204X-E having PP215 probes?

So at the end of the day, I'm trying to figure out if the difference is really worth the extra $250; some help would be appreciated :^)

[tautech]

Most of your answers can be found in this thread and particularly on probes in this post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1434665/#msg1434665

What difference is there between the two scopes besides the SDS1204X-E having PP215 probes?

Nil, only the rated BW -3dB frequency.

[EsEsEl_Please]

Thanks for the info tautech, and to Performa01 for that massively detailed review/analysis .

[Ch1Cav3]

I'm also faced with making the same decision between the SDS1104x-E or SDS1204x-E. (I guess the third option would be some ancient 19 year old 1GHz model)
I'm curious on which one you decided to get and how it worked out for you

[tautech]

Welcome to the forum.

TBH I probably sell just one 200 MHz model to ten 100 MHz models. I guess those that buy SDS1204X-E can't be bothered with hacks or don't know about them.
The SDS1104X-E is considerably less outlay and has a -3dB point of ~125 MHz.

[PhilB]

I'm looking at these scopes as well (as well as Rigol offerings and Keysight 1000X).

So is it correct to conclude that the hardware in the SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E is absolutely identical?  This is purely a software limitation that can easily be..."upgraded", correct? 

In both cases, adding an SDG series Waveform generator (or the add-on generator and software pack) is all that is needed to get Bode Plots, etc?

This makes these way more interesting than the Rigol offering...I'm still researching the KeySight, but that's a) a different price point and b) appears to be a Holy War...

[tautech]

I'm looking at these scopes as well (as well as Rigol offerings and Keysight 1000X).

So is it correct to conclude that the hardware in the SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E is absolutely identical? 

Identical, except for the probes that come with each model.

This is purely a software limitation that can easily be..."upgraded", correct? 

'Upgrading' the options is easier than BW AFAIK. There's a hack thread somewhere here on the forum.....

In both cases, adding an SDG series Waveform generator (or the add-on generator and software pack) is all that is needed to get Bode Plots, etc?

Yep, FRA is a standard free to use feature, just a sine wave source that can be controlled by the scope is required.
Siglent SDG's etc are all plug and play....some USB or LAN, others only USB but there are also more involved options of using other non-Siglent AWG's......again, threads about this on the forum.

[PhilB]

'Upgrading' the options is easier than BW AFAIK. There's a hack thread somewhere here on the forum.....

I have the hack thread open, but not sure I understand your comment about bandwidth. Isn't that one of the options?

Unrelated, does the WiFi functionality also require the extra hardware, on top of the software option? The Siglent website seems to imply so.

Thanks for all your help.

Also, is there a preferred Canadian (or American, if not) distributor, or one who gives discounts to forum members?

I haven't used anything but an analogue scope, and that was back in the 90s when I did my electronics diploma. I suspect any of these new offerings will blow me away. I mainly plan to use it for audio stuff and maybe some ham radio stuff too (although I hear all that has gone digital too!)

[tautech]

'Upgrading' the options is easier than BW AFAIK. There's a hack thread somewhere here on the forum.....

I have the hack thread open, but not sure I understand your comment about bandwidth. Isn't that one of the options?

Nope. There is no official BW upgrade option, it must be hacked.

Unrelated, does the WiFi functionality also require the extra hardware, on top of the software option? The Siglent website seems to imply so.

Yes, 2 bits to this, the HW (WiFi dongle) and the SW licensing for it for permanent functionality. All official options offer 30 free trial usages. The WiFi dongle is from TP LINK; TL-WN725N gold version. You can find them online for bugger all. 

Also, is there a preferred Canadian (or American, if not) distributor, or one who gives discounts to forum members?

Saelig, ask for their code in their discount thread and someone will PM it to you.

[aimc]

'Upgrading' the options is easier than BW AFAIK. There's a hack thread somewhere here on the forum.....

I have the hack thread open, but not sure I understand your comment about bandwidth. Isn't that one of the options?

Nope. There is no official BW upgrade option, it must be hacked.

Unrelated, does the WiFi functionality also require the extra hardware, on top of the software option? The Siglent website seems to imply so.

Yes, 2 bits to this, the HW (WiFi dongle) and the SW licensing for it for permanent functionality. All official options offer 30 free trial usages. The WiFi dongle is from TP LINK; TL-WN725N gold version. You can find them online for bugger all. 

Also, is there a preferred Canadian (or American, if not) distributor, or one who gives discounts to forum members?

Saelig, ask for their code in their discount thread and someone will PM it to you.

Phil, hacking is the way to go. Its really easy for BW and all optional software add-ons. There is even a nice Bode plot hack that lets you use the cheap ass FY6800 AWG here on the forum using WiFi (the enclosure is from me  ). BTW I graduated with my MSc in electronics in the early 80's - so I totally hear you with your other comments... Happy holidays and greetings from the KW area.

[PhilB]

Phil, hacking is the way to go. Its really easy for BW and all optional software add-ons. There is even a nice Bode plot hack that lets you use the cheap ass FY6800 AWG here on the forum using WiFi (the enclosure is from me  ). BTW I graduated with my MSc in electronics in the early 80's - so I totally hear you with your other comments... Happy holidays and greetings from the KW area.

In the end, I ended up getting the Keysight DSOX1204G. Decided to treat myself to a name brand. As a linux software developer who doesn't even own a Windows machine anymore, I liked the idea of a linux based machine, with a built in generator, and no hacking required.

[tautech]

In the end, I ended up getting the Keysight DSOX1204G. Decided to treat myself to a name brand. As a linux software developer who doesn't even own a Windows machine anymore, I liked the idea of a linux based machine, with a built in generator, and no hacking required.

Yeah well, all Siglents are Linux based too. 

[PhilB]

Interesting.  I thought they were Windows based.  There was a whole thread about needing to run Windows just to upgrade their firmware.  That's a bit of a dealbreaker for me.

Oh well....Duly noted for next time.  Related, I work for a University, and we're setting up a new program for engineering (on top of the main school)...they just bought many pieces of Siglent gear (power supplies, oscilloscopes, and wage generators).  I'll have to take a look at them if I make it out to that location.

[tautech]

Interesting.  I thought they were Windows based.  There was a whole thread about needing to run Windows just to upgrade their firmware.  That's a bit of a dealbreaker for me.

Oh well....Duly noted for next time.  Related, I work for a University, and we're setting up a new program for engineering (on top of the main school)...they just bought many pieces of Siglent gear (power supplies, oscilloscopes, and wage generators).  I'll have to take a look at them if I make it out to that location.

Dunno never used Linux however with Siglent gear that uses internal webservers they have a Firmware upgrade feature within the webserver that should be able to select the update file within whatever PC OS and install it from there.
At one time we were playing with a 'phone home' feature for firmware upgrades but it got dropped due to perceived marketplace paranoia. Despite this it would've vastly reduced any possible user errors of attempting to install an incorrect FW update.

[Performa01]

Interesting.  I thought they were Windows based.  There was a whole thread about needing to run Windows just to upgrade their firmware.  That's a bit of a dealbreaker for me.

There are two ways to upgrade the firmware:

1) Using an USB stick with FAT file system. Almost all USB sticks up to 32GB seem to be pre-formatted with FAT32, it's kind of a standard by now and you can certainly use Linux to put the FW file on the stick (and even format them, if required).

2) FW update over the web server. You can use any operating system that runs any internet browser. This is the quickest and most convenient way. Apart from that, I rarely use an USB stick with the DSOs anymore, because all file operations like screenshots, pulling the acquisition data or doing a FW update are so much more convenient on the computer over the web interface.