Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)

[mr.fabe]

Update #2

Siglent USA will not repair, replace, or provide parts required to address the "compensation issue".  They acknowledge the issue but do not feel the "problem" is a serious one warranting any repair by them.

After several emails, I was offered a refund on my 1202X-E if I am still not satisfied with the product.  That is a pretty generous return option IMHO.

This was my first encounter with Siglent and based on my recent experience, they show that they do care about their customer base.

Isn't offering a refund basically the same as offering a replacement? Refund, wait until the problem is fixed in production units, buy again. Assuming you'd want to.

The problem is that I am not the "original owner" of the unit, so no refund / exchange.  My ex-business partner purchased the unit, we had a falling out, split our assets, and I got the scope.  No other options are available to me unless they are hardware defects recognized by Siglent.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[Diabolo]

Hello,

I received the 4pf capacitors sent by Siglent Europe and I thank them for it.
I installed these 2 capacitors and the compensation is now ok.
Attention, the cable flat display is very fragile and can be cut easily, you have to be very careful when you handle it!
Siglent supplies with the capacitors an adhesive label indicating that the compensation has been corrected and which must be glued instead, or next, the warranty tape that was cut to open the SDS 1202X-E.

Problem set for me.

Regards,
Diabolo

[Mr. Scram]

The problem is that I am not the "original owner" of the unit, so no refund / exchange.  My ex-business partner purchased the unit, we had a falling out, split our assets, and I got the scope.  No other options are available to me unless they are hardware defects recognized by Siglent.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

You said they're offering a refund after several emails, right?

[mr.fabe]

The problem is that I am not the "original owner" of the unit, so no refund / exchange.  My ex-business partner purchased the unit, we had a falling out, split our assets, and I got the scope.  No other options are available to me unless they are hardware defects recognized by Siglent.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

You said they're offering a refund after several emails, right?

Only with original invoice / purchaser, not me.  I posted the information for others that may have purchased the unit and gone beyond the normal return / exchange period.  My unit was purchased in September from Amazon (30 day return).

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[Paul Moir]

If you want to be like Fluke, I guess you have to act like Fluke...
I've had no independent contact from my official Canadian rep about this issue yet.  Does Siglent have a position for contacting customers or is this being left to the rep?

[Diabolo]

Hello,,


I live in France and I personally contacted Siglent Europe to get the capacitors.
The contact Siglent (Michael) was perfect and very professional.

As I said, if you want to install and solder the capacitors (CA-CB 105) yourself, you have to pay close attention to the very fragile flat cable feeding the display.

I had to make a small adjustment of the CV variable capabilities following the procedure described.



Diabolo

[illusive]

Is there any news from batronix or other european sellers about the new units? Are they willing to share the serial number of the available scopes?

[Welectron]

Is there any news from batronix or other european sellers about the new units? Are they willing to share the serial number of the available scopes?

The next shipment will arrive next Dec-19 at our warehouse, including SDS1202X-E from the newest batch with fixed compensation issue.
Regarding serial numbers, why would they be of interest in advance?

[skander36]

Is there any news from batronix or other european sellers about the new units? Are they willing to share the serial number of the available scopes?

The next shipment will arrive next Dec-19 at our warehouse, including SDS1202X-E from the newest batch with fixed compensation issue.
Regarding serial numbers, why would they be of interest in advance?

@ tautech , do you know from what serial number off. ?

Units with BB in the build code that is part of the full SN# are from HW revision to remedy the input compensation issue. At this time there has been ~3 weeks production since changes were made.

[TK]

Is there any news from batronix or other european sellers about the new units? Are they willing to share the serial number of the available scopes?

The next shipment will arrive next Dec-19 at our warehouse, including SDS1202X-E from the newest batch with fixed compensation issue.
Regarding serial numbers, why would they be of interest in advance?

You are replying to this thread "Siglent SDS1202X-E COMPENSATION ISSUE" and you don't have a clue why people are asking for the serial number???

Edited: I was wrong.  Sorry.

[tautech]

Units just received had BBD.
Zero input compensation issues. Perfect.

[exe]

You are replying to this thread "Siglent SDS1202X-E COMPENSATION ISSUE" and you don't have a clue why people are asking for the serial number???

I think his message was "we have only good units, no need to bother with checking serial numbers".

[kahe40]

just received one from (honest) seller BATRONIX Germany: SDS1EBAQ1R3473
so happy, thanks a lot   

[StillTrying]

just received one from (honest) seller BATRONIX Germany: SDS1EBAQ1R3473
so happy, thanks a lot   

Have you tested it ?
The fine Y amplitude adjustment each side of the relay click shows it the best/worst, as described in Reply#8 of this thread.

[Djinn]

I got my Siglent SDS1202X-E from Saelig today, it was shipped December the seventh, and it had the serial number: SDS1EBAQ1R3XXX 

The thing is that I did not know of the missing capacitor in the input stage when I ordered it.

Returning it from Norway back to Saelig in the US is out of the question, so I just have to get thru the hassle of ordering capacitors, and I will have to get myself a new signal generator as well since mine will not do 12V

This was just a not so great start of this Christmas.   

[borjam]

I still think that Siglent should replace them under warranty.

But, anyway, their call. There is a serious image risk in this case. Let's say a friend borrows my scope and he notices that it's wrong. The impression can be that Siglent hardware is not reliable.

I guess they still have to learn about poor product support decisions and similar mishaps.

[mr.fabe]

+1 to that...

Any good, reputable company would fully support their product and have the simple problems fixed.  Siglent designed a circuit board and decided to "cheap out" to save a few bucks and leave out a few parts.   The testing group at Siglent " missed the effects of the capacitors and blessed the release of their product for sale to the public.  Without admitting that it is a problem, they offered a refund that actually anyone would be able to attain by pursuing  credit card disputes, consumer protection laws, etc. for a defective products.  I still don't understand why Siglent would decide to ignore this manufacturing issue despite the changes they made to the current production line.  This reminds me of when Apple came out with the iPhone with a defective battery or when the Macbook Pro had defective video chips.  They never admitted or fixed the problem for the consumer until there were class action lawsuits filed and they lost. 

In the meantime,  I guess I will be ordering the recommended caps and doing the modifications myself.  I'm no longer concerned about the Siglent 3 year warranty of this product since it doesn't seem to be worth a damn anyways.

[Welectron]

just received one from (honest) seller BATR**** Germany: SDS1EBAQ1R3473
so happy, thanks a lot   

It's up to you choosing your buying source We are one of the first EU sellers receiving the fixed version directly from the factory. Our current serial number range is SDS1EBBD1Rxxx.

[borjam]

It's up to you choosing your buying source We are one of the first EU sellers receiving the fixed version directly from the factory. Our current serial number range is SDS1EBBD1Rxxx.

Nevertheless the real problem is: Manufacturer sells a defective product with an alleged three year warranty. Product has a design/manufacturing error.

A serious manufacturer would:

1) Issue a recall, so that units still in the dealers' inventory are frozen and replaced so that no more defective units are sold.

2) Organize a recall process so that units in the hands of customers can be replaced/fixed.

Some will dispute wether this is a design/manufacturing error or not. I'd like to see quotes of the user manual of any oscilloscope suggesting that probe calibration must be repeated for every vertical range.

Of course I know it's largely a cosmetic issue that won't render the scope useless. But it's still a reputational problem whenever someone notices the problem and learns that the manufacturer didn't honor the warranty.

There are two kinds of manufacturers: Those who honor the warranty strictly in legal terms and only when it's not possible to avoid it, and those who understand that being more proactive can be good for their reputation.

20 years ago, for example, I had a good experience with Sony, who fixed a walkman way out of warranty for free. They opened it and it was obvious it was a defect, not user damage. They said that no matter what the warranty said, it was obviously their fault. They apologised and fixed it for free.

Law and ethics are not always coincident. And even from a purely selfish point of view, reputation is important. As someone else pointed out, a good reputation can take years to earn, and it can be lost in a second.

[exe]

Of course I know it's largely a cosmetic issue that won't render the scope useless.

I thought this means at high frequencies response significantly changes with a range... So, it's not just about "squareness of probe calibration signal". Correct me if I wrong.

[borjam]

Of course I know it's largely a cosmetic issue that won't render the scope useless.

I thought this means at high frequencies response significantly changes with a range... So, it's not just about "squareness of probe calibration signal". Correct me if I wrong.

Yes, it means that the response at high frequencies changes.

But as far as I know the worst damage is done to the trust you can put on the instrument. In many cases it won't have a dramatic effect. But once you know there is an issue you will be extra paranoid when using it.

Instrumentation is a matter of trust. Electronic instruments are supposed to help us make informed decisions. Fuzzy or blatantly incorrect information doesn't help anyone.

Frankly, the response to an issue like this says a lot about the trustworthiness of a manufacturer. I own both a Rigol DS1000Z and a Siglent SDS1202X-E. So far, I think Siglent had done a better job than Rigol in many key aspects. I especially dislike the opaque way in which Rigol applies interpolation even in dot mode. But Siglent's choice not to respond adequately to this issue is a show stopper for me.

I know there will be some "macho" style comments like "well, dude, fix it yourself" but as I pointed out above, instruments are a matter of trust. You are paying someone not just for a piece of hardware, but for a full chain of hardware, software, quality control and calibration. If you fix it yourself you break that chain.

It's your choice of course, but I still think it's not very wise on Siglent's part.

[Mr. Scram]

AvE addresses the problem with something like this correctly. His take is that you're trying to solve a problem, which means your cognitive load is already high. You don't need a worry about your instrument lying to you added to that. It needs to be dependable for it to be useful for troubleshooting, development and repair.

You can't be a serious test equipment manufacturer if people can't depend on the results the equipment produces. At that point it's just a toy. TE is all about the trust you can have in the device.

[Diabolo]

Hello,

Siglent corrected for several weeks the problem of compensation with the new BB series. I admit that Siglent factory has made a mistake with this problem of compensation, it is a fact acquired.

If a reseller sells the BQ series without having corrected the compensation itself, or returned the SDS1202X-E to Siglent under warranty, it is the reseller who is not honest when selling a non-compliant SDS.

Siglent Europe (Hamburg) was very nice and correct with me by sending 4 capacitors and a new warranty label on request from me.
European customers can make the same request as me by providing the serial number of their SDS1202X-E, address and phone number and valid Email.

I remember that the flat and flexible cable feeding the screen is super fragile.


Diabolo

[Djinn]

This is the Email I sent to:" esales@saelig.com " and "support@saelig.com", and I have not received any reply or response whatsoever:
 
"As I have been aware of this oscilloscope has two missing capacitors in the input section my serial number is: SDS1EBAQ1R3XXX.

I find that this has been a known problem for a long time, I find it rather of a lower standard to ship these oscilloscopes out to customers without having them being corrected in the first place.

For me  the cost and problems related to customs, I find myself now stranded with a problem I cannot easily get out of.

How can you help me out of this problem?

With regards

My Name"

I will wait to set any "judgement" on www.saelig.com, but so far I can say I have a rather low respect for any firm, may it be a producer or reseller, that does not correct or respond to a common known fault.

Well that comes to show that morals can be low when it comes to sales.

Please put a notice on the "Saelig discount code thread"

[tautech]

This is the Email I sent to:" esales@saelig.com " and "support@saelig.com", and I have not received any reply or response whatsoever:
 
"As I have been aware of this oscilloscope has two missing capacitors in the input section my serial number is: SDS1EBAQ1R3775.

I find that this has been a known problem for a long time, I find it rather of a lower standard to ship these oscilloscopes out to customers without having them being corrected in the first place.

A bit over 2 months is NOT a long time. I reported it to Siglent 16 Oct.
Ten days later they sent me the Rework instructions and at that time they had already introduced the changes necessary into their production.

For me  the cost and problems related to customs, I find myself now stranded with a problem I cannot easily get out of.

How can you help me out of this problem?

With regards

My Name"

I'm surprised given your location you didn't source one from a local dealer. 

I will wait to set any "judgement" on www.saelig.com, but so far I can say I have a rather low respect for any firm, may it be a producer or reseller, that does not correct or respond to a common known fault.

Well that comes to show that morals can be low when it comes to sales.

Please put a notice on the "Saelig discount code thread"

I have never been formally notified there was a 'known fault' with input compensation for the 1202X-E and I strongly suspect Saelig wasn't either. As Saelig is supplied from Siglent in Ohio and they'd most likely source stock by sea freight stock so by then stock would already be some weeks old before Saelig received them.

Don't drag Saelig into this as it's likely they weren't aware of any issues and sold it to you in good faith.

Your gripe is with Siglent and their branch in Hamburg will find some remedy for you. What their policy is I'm not exactly sure, but contact them anyway through their EU email.
There is mention earlier in this thread of how they might deal with this matter but with Xmas looming upon us you'll probably have to wait until they return from hols.