Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)

[apc]

To follow up on my post re Amazon still shipping faulty units:
I gave up on Amazon and ordered from http://www.saelig.com/siglent-sdsx-series/sds1202x-e.htm.  They're shipping the 'BB' models.  As a nice plus,  it arrived more quickly and cost me less than Amazon.

[Rolls-Royce]

Iv'e been lurking and reading this thread with interest for a couple of days since I saw the YouTube videos on this issue, having already ordered an SDS1202X-E from Amazon. It arrived today, and I'm happy to say that it has a "xxxBBxxx" serial number.  So it appears Amazon is receiving the corrected units into stock.

[LoFi]

I ordered and received (via Amazon Prime) an SDS1202X-E back in mid-December and was shipped the corrected 'BB' version at that time. 

Quite surprised to hear that uncorrected 'BA' versions have shown up more recently, since they clearly had good ones in the warehouse some months ago...

[Gandalf_Sr]

Siglent wouldn't fix my BA SDS1202X-E under warranty so it was returned for a full refund after considerable hassle on my part.  In February 2018 I received my Rigol DS1054Z DS1104Z which does not have any compensation issues - you don't have to recalibrate the probes after changing vertical gain settings - imagine that!

I paid just $295.25 (using EEVBlog discount) shipped from Tequipment.net for an open-box item that was like new with all cables, manuals, and accessories plus it came with the full option pack (everything but the bandwidth upgrade which you can't buy anyway) as part of the deal.  I have to say that the DS1104Z is an awesome little 4-channel scope.

[Bob Sava]

Bad customer service can be a big turn off.

You went after old but proven hardware and software with known defects.  On the other hand I picked powerful zynq platform with software that leaves a lot to be desired.  I put my money on Siglent, since CEO presented himself as a software guy, therefore, I hope that scope software will improve over time.   

[CFLBob]

FWIW, I just got my Siglent from Amazon yesterday, and it's the BB version.

It's an impressive little scope.  Coming from a Tek 475 it doesn't seem to be a step down.  It's lacking a couple of features I'd like, like sensing a 10x probe, but does more than the 475 can do. 

[Gandalf_Sr]

Bad customer service can be a big turn off.

You went after old but proven hardware and software with known defects.  On the other hand I picked powerful zynq platform with software that leaves a lot to be desired.  I put my money on Siglent, since CEO presented himself as a software guy, therefore, I hope that scope software will improve over time.

The Siglent Rep told me that my BA SDS1202X-E could not be returned and repaired under warranty as it was fully within specification - here's an actual quote...

Thank you for writing in. We are familiar with the probe compensation issue. All of the SDS1000X-E products are in specification. There is no specification for “probe compensation flatness” between ranges. When you change ranges, the physical circuit is altered and the design/part tolerances dictate the performance. The probe compensation can be adjusted to minimize the effect.

Because of that, I took my money back from Siglent - "hop[ing] that the software will improve over time" does not seem like a sensible purchasing strategy to me but when the hardware is bad and they won't fix it, I'm gonna just say no.

[nctnico]

I put my money on Siglent, since CEO presented himself as a software guy, therefore, I hope that scope software will improve over time.   

Last time I put my money on Siglent I lost over 1700 euro so be warned that waiting for the software to improve is not a good idea at all. When your money is in Siglent's pockets Siglent no longer cares and fixing bugs may take years or even never happen at all. There are enough examples on this forum. All in all Siglent uses a typical hit&run strategy. Why do you think Siglent's CEO visits Dave? A typical damage control move to do some window dressing but nothing is going to change.

[Bob Sava]

To be sure it was more than the interview.  @Performa1 and others on this forum are knowledgeable, claim to have the ear of Siglent development team and appear to have genuine interest in making this platform improve. 

If that's just sales and marketing consider me fooled  .   The ball is in Siglent's court.

[BillB]

I put my money on Siglent, since CEO presented himself as a software guy, therefore, I hope that scope software will improve over time.   

Last time I put my money on Siglent I lost over 1700 euro so be warned that waiting for the software to improve is not a good idea at all. When your money is in Siglent's pockets Siglent no longer cares and fixing bugs may take years or even never happen at all. There are enough examples on this forum. All in all Siglent uses a typical hit&run strategy. Why do you think Siglent's CEO visits Dave? A typical damage control move to do some window dressing but nothing is going to change.

But isn't this really the way of things anymore?  Company rushes product to market with buggy firmware; company fixes a few bugs after first release; company releases new product, forgetting that old product exists.  Every device I own nowadays has the ability to upgrade firmware, and most of them I might have seen an upgrade or two in the first year, then nothing.

From what I've seen so far, Siglent has been somewhat responsive regarding fixes and even feature requests on many of their products.  YOLO did acknowledge that they are a little behind the ball on bug fixes and promised that things would improve.  Was he blowing smoke or not?  The proof will be if they actually release a firmware update to the SHS scope-meters. 

[StillTrying]

PS
Yes they are working on CML FW.

Any + news, just out of interest / for amusement.

[Spudlicious]

But isn't this really the way of things anymore?  Company rushes product to market with buggy firmware; company fixes a few bugs after first release; company releases new product, forgetting that old product exists.  Every device I own nowadays has the ability to upgrade firmware, and most of them I might have seen an upgrade or two in the first year, then nothing.

Ain't that the truth. TVs, phones, everything, you're lucky to see one firmware upgrade before the manufacturer abandons you. None of which has stopped me buying an SDS1202X-E after the supplier assured me it would have a BB serial. Delivered today and so far so good, though I've little more than installed the newest firmware and adjusted probe compensation.

This is my first post here so greetings to all and thanks for some darn interesting comments.

[tautech]

But isn't this really the way of things anymore?  Company rushes product to market with buggy firmware; company fixes a few bugs after first release; company releases new product, forgetting that old product exists.  Every device I own nowadays has the ability to upgrade firmware, and most of them I might have seen an upgrade or two in the first year, then nothing.

Ain't that the truth. TVs, phones, everything, you're lucky to see one firmware upgrade before the manufacturer abandons you. None of which has stopped me buying an SDS1202X-E after the supplier assured me it would have a BB serial. Delivered today and so far so good, though I've little more than installed the newest firmware and adjusted probe compensation.

This is my first post here so greetings to all and thanks for some darn interesting comments.

Welcome to the forum.

Glad you hung out for a BB SN#. 
Enjoy your new DSO.

PS
Yes they are working on CML FW.

Any + news, just out of interest / for amusement.

Asked a couple of days back how things were progressing......not heard back yet. 

[jvhb]

Hi, after waiting for nearly a year for the worst bugs to be fixed, I finally ordered a Siglent SDS1202X-E from Batronix.com. By now, they should be allright I thought!

And what did I get today? A one year old scope! It is a "BA" serial from June 2017 
It's very disappointing, but also a bit funny, haha 

Now debating whether to send it back, or just do the cap fix and live with it..

Has there been any other hardware changes in the last year? Or is it only the compensation caps?

[tautech]

Hi, after waiting for nearly a year for the worst bugs to be fixed, I finally ordered a Siglent SDS1202X-E from Batronix.com. By now, they should be allright I thought!

And what did I get today? A one year old scope! It is a "BA" serial from June 2017 
It's very disappointing, but also a bit funny, haha 

Now debating whether to send it back, or just do the cap fix and live with it..

Has there been any other hardware changes in the last year? Or is it only the compensation caps?

Sad state of affairs and I feel for you.
Batronix should've know better than to dispatch a BA unit unless they've reworked it. 

Do you know how to do the check to see if this one has been fixed ?
In short, set 1V/div for 10x probe and use Fine to adjust V/div over the 1.2V/div step.
If there's NO change in the waveform it's been fixed in this unit already.

If your are to do the rework yourself ensure you get the correct caps from Batronix or Siglent Europe as they must be 500V rated 1206 SMD. If you're comfortable with SMD work great, but be aware the Gnd pad on both channels sucks a lot of heat and unless you're taking care you can end up with a dry joint.
You need 1.2 and 12V p-p square wave source too to complete the front end adjustment after the caps are installed.

Update us on how things pan out.

[jvhb]

Thanks for your reply tautech.
Yes my unit defintely has the compensation issue, I just checked again.

I could mange to solder in the caps, but I don't really want to spend/waste time on fixing a brand new scope. Especially after I waited so long with ordering, to avoid exactly this type of hassle.

So I think I will return the scope to Batronix on principle, and probably order a (actually) new one from another seller. Will send them an email first and see what they have to say though.

[Gandalf_Sr]

And what did I get today? A one year old scope! It is a "BA" serial from June 2017 
It's very disappointing, but also a bit funny, haha 

A sad state of affairs, this is becoming like a Trump University course on how to engender customer brand loyalty 101.

[nctnico]

Thanks for your reply tautech.
Yes my unit defintely has the compensation issue, I just checked again.

I could mange to solder in the caps, but I don't really want to spend/waste time on fixing a brand new scope. Especially after I waited so long with ordering, to avoid exactly this type of hassle.

So I think I will return the scope to Batronix on principle, and probably order a (actually) new one from another seller. Will send them an email first and see what they have to say though.

Be sure not to wait too long for the return grace period to pass. Perhaps it is even better to return it immediately and then work out a resolution. You don't want to keep this scope anyway.

[jvhb]

Batronix has promptly responded to my email with an apology, and a free DHL return shipping label.
They will send a new scope as replacement.
So excellent after-sales customer service at least 

Interestingly, they didn't comment on the compensation issue at all.
- Perhaps they figured I might be one of those troublesome EEVblog forum users, and better just fix the situation quickly 

[perec]

Hello, I bought this oscilloscope from the Siglent.eu eshop and sent me a new BB revision. On my question whether they send a new revision or old BA, they replied that they are sending only new BB. (Forgive me for my bad English)

[Mr. Scram]

Hello, I bought this oscilloscope from the Siglent.eu eshop and sent me a new BB revision. On my question whether they send a new revision or old BA, they replied that they are sending only new BB. (Forgive me for my bad English)

Your English is fine and thanks for reporting your experience!

[karkoon]

Hi,

I learned about this issue just yesterday. My unit is purchased May 2017 so for sure it is affected by issue. I checked the serial number and indeed it is BAxxx. I am located in India.

I am no way qualified enough or have tools to repair an actual scope even if I got my hands on requisite capacitors.

I could reproduce the issue on the scope myself. Can you please suggest how to deal with these issues and how to spot how it affects in your usage of scope?

Totally bummed since yesterday.

Any tips or workaround if I don't want to do hardware mod? How to work with a scope with such an issue? Certainly I wouldn't go and buy a new scope. Don't have the budget for that anyways.

You guys are awesome... I learn a thing or two everyday!

[tautech]

Hi,

I learned about this issue just yesterday. My unit is purchased May 2017 so for sure it is affected by issue. I checked the serial number and indeed it is BAxxx. I am located in India.

I am no way qualified enough or have tools to repair an actual scope even if I got my hands on requisite capacitors.

I could reproduce the issue on the scope myself. Can you please suggest how to deal with these issues and how to spot how it affects in your usage of scope?

Totally bummed since yesterday.

Any tips or workaround if I don't want to do hardware mod? How to work with a scope with such an issue? Certainly I wouldn't go and buy a new scope. Don't have the budget for that anyways.

You guys are awesome... I learn a thing or two everyday!

It only is visible when using 10x probe setting and when crossing the threshold of 1.2V/div.
So when probes are compensated @ 1V/div and then 2V+/div is used the peak of the waveform might not be accurate.
Best workaround is to compensate probes correctly @ 1.22V/div using FINE on the vertical control for when higher V/div settings are required.
Email the Siglent factory and ask them to mail you the correct 500V SMD caps to be fitted when/if you get the skill and equipment.

Edit to add:
To be sure the waveform is correct in scopes with this problem it is important to compensate 10x probes below and above V/div settings of 1.20V or even have 2 sets of probes, one for use @ 1V/div and the other for 2V+/div.
In particular, Measurements and  Decode results can be affected when probes are not properly compensated.

[Welectron]

We exclusively ship SDS1202X-E with serial number batch SDS1EBB since December 2017 now. I am really surprised this still seems to be an issue for some of you 8 months after the fix, receiving a "new" device...
If we can help out some of you guys in Europe with this issue, let us know!

[dave356]

Gee, That would be nice if someone here in the U.S. (Siglent) would offer some help with these, beside DIY.

 "We'll ship these beta units out and see if anyone has any problems with them, then we will fix and send out corrected units and not worry about defective units.  Oh sure, we will send out parts so you could fix them yourself, but good luck that you don't screw up fixing them.  Even if you install the parts to
fix the unit, you still need to have proper equipment to ensure correct calibration of the unit."

I've put off buying Siglent DMM and function gen because of feelings about this issue.