Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)

[Gandalf_Sr]

Rob, I don't really want to start a fight with you but a forum user asked if accuracy was affected by the compensation issue and you said no. 

If you acknowledge that the waveform gets altered as the compensation issue appears and might give the user an impression that there was a problem on the leading edge of a pulse that was not really there? So you quoting datasheet % accuracies is misleading, a 3% difference should be the same at all parts of the waveform.

Maybe we should run a poll here to see what the community thinks - like is the Siglent compensation issue acceptable / normal?

Diabolo, be informed that Tautech is a New Zealand dealer who sells Siglent test gear - only Siglent.

[EEhopeful.]

Have anyone measured this compensation problem on the BB serial numbers and confirmed if the problem still exist on them??? Are there any other problems specifically with this model or the rest of the series? Does the 1104 xe have the same problem too???

[rf-loop]

Have anyone measured this compensation problem on the BB serial numbers and confirmed if the problem still exist on them??? Are there any other problems specifically with this model or the rest of the series? Does the 1104 xe have the same problem too???

I have here SDS1202X-E (BB) of course this problem is solved. It is solved even in original design before any SDS1202X-E manufacturing. These capacitors positions have always been on the PCB layout. No one have told what was this accident when these 3.9pF 500V NP0 capacitors drop out from board assembly process or if in fist test lots they have not seen this "feature" due to possible some other very small differencies in other components used there, 3-4pF is not much. Also there is some other things what can speculate. Perhaps even different probes are not so sensitive with this.

So or so but personally I do not like how Siglent have handled this whole case after it pop-up. When they are in western markets they need learn also how to live here. When I am in China I do not export my cultural habits to china. They can not export chinese culture habits to here so that if make mistake then try only solve it "cinese way" or just only shame laughter or try explain that error is not error. It do not work here. Never. Period.
For future this need learn or cry and learn.

 It need understand that all can copy and all can make cheaper etc... but...product quality and service quality level can not copy easy and good reputation is very hard to earn and extremely easy to loose and loosing it cost then thousends of times "lot of".  My opinion is that if they --- (now it is too late - all what can loose is anyway allready loosed) --- if they originally handle this case different (and bit expensive) way they can earn lot of good reputation and if think money this reputation value may be decades more what they loose if handle this case even with most expensive way.



SDS10004X-E have never been with this problem. Front end is (bit) different - difference  is also visible in specs sheet: nominal input capacitance is different... 2 channel models nominal 18pF and 4 channel models nominal 15pF.

[StillTrying]

Despite the fact that this is the only scope I'm aware of that does not maintain probe compensation when changing vertical gain,

Does my CML+ count.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/msg1326084/#msg1326084

Siglent America claims that it is in specification; specifically they said in an email to me...

We are familiar with the probe compensation issue. All of the SDS1000X-E products are in specification. There is no specification for “probe compensation flatness” between ranges.

I suppose you could argue that for a half-screen-height waveform, the HF response being within 3.5% is in spec. problem is it's -3.49% on one Y range and +3.49% on the next!

[EEhopeful.]

Despite the fact that this is the only scope I'm aware of that does not maintain probe compensation when changing vertical gain,

Does my CML+ count.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/msg1326084/#msg1326084

Siglent America claims that it is in specification; specifically they said in an email to me...

We are familiar with the probe compensation issue. All of the SDS1000X-E products are in specification. There is no specification for “probe compensation flatness” between ranges.

I suppose you could argue that for a half-screen-height waveform, the HF response being within 3.5% is in spec. problem is it's -3.49% on one Y range and +3.49% on the next!

 

 I guess you meant sds1104-ex, right? I don't know if some of this problem is the reason a lot of these models are on backorder now. This is the second thing I see Siglent mishandling in customer wise treatment. I was ready to pull the trigger for this model, even considered the more expensive model, but this really have me thinking. I do not want or care to go into a back and forth with Amazon over serial numbers, or even to have to call Siglent and be told that they are going to send capacitors and if I damage the motherboard by their omission, my warranty is not valid anymore. Whatever I buy now have to last.

[rf-loop]

Despite the fact that this is the only scope I'm aware of that does not maintain probe compensation when changing vertical gain,

Does my CML+ count.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/msg1326084/#msg1326084

Siglent America claims that it is in specification; specifically they said in an email to me...

We are familiar with the probe compensation issue. All of the SDS1000X-E products are in specification. There is no specification for “probe compensation flatness” between ranges.

I suppose you could argue that for a half-screen-height waveform, the HF response being within 3.5% is in spec. problem is it's -3.49% on one Y range and +3.49% on the next!

 

 I guess you meant sds1104-ex, right? I don't know if some of this problem is the reason a lot of these models are on backorder now. This is the second thing I see Siglent mishandling in customer wise treatment. I was ready to pull the trigger for this model, even considered the more expensive model, but this really have me thinking. I do not want or care to go into a back and forth with Amazon over serial numbers, or even to have to call Siglent and be told that they are going to send capacitors and if I damage the motherboard by their omission, my warranty is not valid anymore. Whatever I buy now have to last.

How many times this need..........

SDS1202X-E  old version have this problem as just told. And told many times.
I have repaired some SDS1202X-E models (BA) and also I have here also BB version and this version do not have this problem. Problem is also well documented and very easy repair. Just same as we have old times repaired many Tek and HP equipments after factory have published some recommendeds mods.
If model is serial prefix BB or later do not need worry.


Back orders... why you think there is problems in these equipments because factory can not supply as much than demand...
Do you remember when Riglol 1000Z come to markets...  I remember. All sellers sell "we do not have" equipments. It was even some times unknown how long time perhaps can get. Problems in equipment or what was reason... time ago (some year) I buy some GPU's  but I did not ask if there was some problems in these GPU's because I need wait 2-3 months.

Siglent factory was also ago all closed due to most big holiday time in chinese year. (yes bit bad time for this product time table in markets) In this vacation time they did not produce or ship any single item from factory in Shenzhen. As can guess (if never visited in any kind of factory) after vacation it also takes some time to starting up whole production to full capacity including all third party suppliers for some building blocks and components - as can guess. Also these models have just short time ago started and some places demand exceeds availability.

Perhaps this text was too complex and long... shortly:

SDS1202X-E have been this issue in serial prefix BA some manufactured lots.
SDS1202X-E serial prefix BB and later do NOT have this problem.

SDS1104X-E do NOT have this problem. (4 channel models are more new than 2 channel X-E models)
SDS1204X-E do NOT have this problem.

SDS2000X serie do not have this this problem.

SDS1000X and X+ models do not have this problem.

Older models, example  old CNL, CM, CFL and CML and then its facelifted version CML+ have nothing to do with these new models exept that also they are mfg by Siglent. Totally different animals.

[Gandalf_Sr]

Really short version...

1. Probe compensation issue affects only the SDS1202X-E scopes and only early units with 'BA' in their serial number (although it's clear that the affected units were not pulled back and repaired by Siglent so some may still be stuck in the supply chain).

2. Siglent's insistence to customers that the probe compensation issue did not constitute an out-of-spec scope, offering only to send the missing capacitors, but warning that users risked invalidating their warranty if they messed up the DIY repair, does not give me a warm feeling about buying another Siglent product.

[dave356]

No more siglent products for me.

Am in the market for a bench dmm and a signal gen, was looking at siglent,
but not anymore.

[TheDefpom]

I have done a video on the rework of the SDS1202X-E, showing the disassembly, rework, calibration and re-assembly of the unit:




Here is a supplemental video showing what the probe compensation is like before (simulated by misalignment) and after rework:

[mr.fabe]

Defpom,

Bravo!

I appreciate you taking the time to do this instructional video.  It was very thorough and informative for anyone who has an affected "BA" scope and wants to resolve the probe compensation issue.  Well done! 




* Edit - Correction from Defporn to Defpom... Sorry about that

[TheDefpom]

* Edit - Correction from Defporn to Defpom... Sorry about that

LOL that was funny!

[sdouble]

I suggest you to change name from Defpom to Defporn.

[mr.fabe]

Defporn -

Definition - Watching porn with the sound turned down so nobody else can hear..

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[besauk]

Great stuff Defpom!  When I briefly had a BAx copy, I measured the input capacitance with a cheap dmm.  I could see the 4pF swing while switching scales, plain as day.  Presumably, yours would show little or no measurable change if you did the same - just curious if you've checked it that way.

[Miti]

Look at this!

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-electronics/city-of-toronto/new-siglent-technologies-sds1202x-e-200mhz-digital-oscilloscope/1341034915?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Possibly Siglent's new strategy to dump a load of scopes with compensation issue? Sell them in bulk at a discount. 380 CAD looks very appealing even though I have a DS1054Z and three other scopes .

PS: The tip of my fingers tingle in anticipation of the joy that I would get from opening one to add the caps.

[tautech]

AFAIK Canada is supplied by Siglent's North American Headquarters.

At that price and if they're (Siglent NA) are willing to post you the caps it would be a good deal IMO if you can successfully manage the rework.
Send them an email asking if you need caps will they supply them.
https://www.siglentamerica.com/contact-us/

Then at least you'll get the correct ones. 

[Gandalf_Sr]

Also ask them if, after you've fitted the missing capacitors (assuming you will have to), you will invalidate your warranty.  $380 Canadian with no warranty doesn't sound that good a deal to me.

[borjam]

Also ask them if, after you've fitted the missing capacitors (assuming you will have to), you will invalidate your warranty.  $380 Canadian with no warranty doesn't sound that good a deal to me.

At least in Europe it seems that they are going to keep warranty. I was asked for the serial number to make sure they respect it.

[mr.fabe]

AFAIK Canada is supplied by Siglent's North American Headquarters.

At that price and if they're (Siglent NA) are willing to post you the caps it would be a good deal IMO if you can successfully manage the rework.
Send them an email asking if you need caps will they supply them.
https://www.siglentamerica.com/contact-us/

Then at least you'll get the correct ones. 

Sorry to call BS on this.  Siglent America would not provide the "caps" for a U.S. sale so what makes you so sure they would send caps to Canadian customers?  Has something changed recently for U.S. folks?

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[djadeski]

I am in Canada and had purchased the amazon.ca SDS1202x-e and it actually had the label indicating box 27 of 28 from siglent america.  It had been shipped to amazon usa then to amazon canada.  At that point I was thinking of doing the caps and I reached out to siglent america and the gentlemen there named Scott was going to send me the caps to do the correction. 

Ultimately I ended up ordering the SDS1204x-e and returned the other to Amazon. 

He seemed quite willing to send them to Canada.

Not use if that has changed at this point.

-dave

[mr.fabe]

AFAIK Canada is supplied by Siglent's North American Headquarters.

At that price and if they're (Siglent NA) are willing to post you the caps it would be a good deal IMO if you can successfully manage the rework.
Send them an email asking if you need caps will they supply them.
https://www.siglentamerica.com/contact-us/

Then at least you'll get the correct ones. 

Sorry to call BS on this.  Siglent America would not provide the "caps" for a U.S. sale so what makes you so sure they would send caps to Canadian customers?  Has something changed recently for U.S. folks?

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Siglent USA has reached out to resolve my issues from December '16 when I made the  request for the "missing" caps.  In their response to my email, they stated that the  request was overlooked or missed by them and have apologized for the oversight. Irregardless of what, how, or why it happened is not a biggie as long as it has been addressed.  Siglent USA's position now is to make sure the caps required to resolve the probe compensation issues are provided to their end customers. Upon receiving the request,  the caps and detailed instructions links will be provided by them.  I am still unclear about the warranty status after installation and will find out if it is affected.  l still believe the BA units should have be recalled and swapped out because this offering does nothing for those folks who do not have the proper equipment or the time to install the caps.  Returning the unit for a refund will be their only option if they so choose.

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[mr.fabe]

Received the missing capacitors and installation instructions from Siglent USA very quickly.  One of the main concerns about opening the scope and performing the upgrade was concerning the warranty status.  I was informed that the warranty will be maintained as long as you perform the modification with care as you normally would on electronic equipment.  No dripped solder blobs, etc.  Upon the request for the capacitors, Siglent USA will note that your unit received the caps so your warranty status will remain intact.


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[apc]

Heads up that Amazon is still shipping the defective BA units as of the 1st week of April, 2018.   Both the one I ordered and the replacement that arrived yesterday were from the BA batch.  I didn't even unwrap the plastic, just put them back in the box and returned them..

FWIW, I've seen other posts that the serial number is on a sticker on the outside of the box.  This was not the case for either of the units I received.  Also, both boxes were sealed with "siglent" labeled, clear packing tape.

[BillB]

Heads up that Amazon is still shipping the defective BA units as of the 1st week of April, 2018.   Both the one I ordered and the replacement that arrived yesterday were from the BA batch.  I didn't even unwrap the plastic, just put them back in the box and returned them..

FWIW, I've seen other posts that the serial number is on a sticker on the outside of the box.  This was not the case for either of the units I received.  Also, both boxes were sealed with "siglent" labeled, clear packing tape.

And they are just turning them around and selling them from Warehouse Deals with only a 10% discount!  Heck, add sales tax and you're at the cost of a new BB unit from Saelig (also, selling on Amazon).

[rf-loop]

Heads up that Amazon is still shipping the defective BA units as of the 1st week of April, 2018.   Both the one I ordered and the replacement that arrived yesterday were from the BA batch.  I didn't even unwrap the plastic, just put them back in the box and returned them..

FWIW, I've seen other posts that the serial number is on a sticker on the outside of the box.  This was not the case for either of the units I received.  Also, both boxes were sealed with "siglent" labeled, clear packing tape.

Is it perhaps so that Amazon have removed these serial number labels. It is very easy. I do not at all wonder if this is case. Of course this Amazon can do what ever.

Many years I have never seen original cartons from Siglent without product label with serial numbers.

If there is not product label with serials outside carton no need even oipet it. Just return and reason "This is not original genuine Siglent product"