Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 90062 times)

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Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2017, 07:41:30 am »
Oh, wait, I remember why! They've been busy making an entirely new chipset.

...for 1+ GHz scopes... "Ultravision II will transform the customer value proposition in the 1-4GHz oscilloscope market." So this is why Z cant tell square wave from derivative? Rigol all too busy chasing top dollar - hobbyists can wait...
If that is true then it seems Rigol is still chasing the dreams Siglent already has given up on.
How could you know ?  :-//
 :-X
Simple: Siglent hasn't introduced a new scope with a >=300MHz bandwidth in years. Also the most recent additions to the line-up are clearly aimed at the low cost hobbyist market by using aggressive pricing and customers as beta testers.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 07:44:46 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2017, 12:46:33 pm »
Oh, wait, I remember why! They've been busy making an entirely new chipset.

...for 1+ GHz scopes... "Ultravision II will transform the customer value proposition in the 1-4GHz oscilloscope market." So this is why Z cant tell square wave from derivative? Rigol all too busy chasing top dollar - hobbyists can wait...
If that is true then it seems Rigol is still chasing the dreams Siglent already has given up on.
How could you know ?  :-//
 :-X
Simple: Siglent hasn't introduced a new scope with a >=300MHz bandwidth in years.
So ? You make out like it's not considered or possibly under development.
I ask again, how could you know.......you don't. Period.

Quote
Also the most recent additions to the line-up are clearly aimed at the low cost hobbyist market
2 models that aren't:
SSA3000X
SDG6000X

Quote
using aggressive pricing

I'm really sorry that your GW is overpriced.  :P

Quote
customers as beta testers.
Didn't you report some bugs to GW ?
Edit. And Misig ?

Why hello beta tester.  :-DD
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 12:48:56 pm by tautech »
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Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2017, 04:13:05 pm »
The GW Instek GDS-2204E had two or three minor bugs which where solved within weeks. The dissaster with the Siglent SDS2000 made me want to verify all functions before committing to buying it. Since then a handfull of minor bugs got fixed (exotic stuff like things going wrong if there is a space in a free math expression send to the scope using an SCPI command). I got the MicSig TO1104 specifically for a review where they installed a beta version of the decoding, so yes that deserved some remarks. Both these scopes don't have a bug list as long as a typical Siglent unit after it has been released and no trivial bugs which should discovered by the factory's testers.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 07:46:37 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2017, 06:54:35 pm »
"USB Arbitrary Waveform Generator Module" hmm...
Would be nice if it can be paired with SDG2000X instead ;) Or even SDG6000X
It can.
From the datasheet for Bode plot mode:
"control an independent SIGLENT SDG instrument"

It has 2, yes 2 USB A sockets, one front and another rear along with the standard USB Device (USB -TMC).

« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 06:56:10 pm by tautech »
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2017, 10:18:17 am »
Should this be capable to capture waveforms and send these to any AWG, or just Siglent ones? I'm not sure how standardized these protocols are.

Has anyone found any review or footage of the domestic release? It's been out for about a month now, but can find exactly nothing on it.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 10:20:31 am by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline stj

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2017, 11:51:46 am »
i am disapointed,   :(
i was hoping to see a low end scope with a monitor output on the back. (VGA / DVI - not something requiring an interface!)
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2017, 12:34:40 pm »
i am disapointed,   :(
i was hoping to see a low end scope with a monitor output on the back. (VGA / DVI - not something requiring an interface!)
HDMI is a pretty good alternative to DVI.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2017, 01:04:39 pm »
Should this be capable to capture waveforms and send these to any AWG, or just Siglent ones? I'm not sure how standardized these protocols are.
They're not standardised. This unit as mentioned above can control the optional USB AWG module or another Siglent standalone AWG from within the DSO's UI. This is primarily for use with the Bode plot feature however the AWG can be controlled for other use just like an inbuilt AWG could/would be.

Other than data that can be gleaned from the datasheet most of us that have these units are bound by NDA.  :-X
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Offline stj

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2017, 02:13:03 pm »
i am disapointed,   :(
i was hoping to see a low end scope with a monitor output on the back. (VGA / DVI - not something requiring an interface!)
HDMI is a pretty good alternative to DVI.

 :-DD

HDMI is DVI-D signals on a cheap shitty connector with added digital audio and a license fee!!!
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2017, 06:43:44 pm »
Think physical display interface is not cost-effective if there is LAN port that could be used to serve screen as well?
 

Online JanJansen

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2017, 11:56:20 pm »
Be aware : dont buy domestic market stuff in China,
the quality is inferior, you might already know that.
aliexpress parachute
 

Offline stj

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2017, 04:20:48 am »
Think physical display interface is not cost-effective if there is LAN port that could be used to serve screen as well?

i seriously doubt the network can be used to mirror the screen in realtime.
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2017, 04:49:56 am »
The 4 channel models will have WiFi and Webserver. This way you can replicate and command the unit from a PC using the browser. and the IP address of the unit. Not bad for a entry level unit.
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Offline stj

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2017, 05:10:35 am »
not for me, i dont want RF emissions on my workbench.
what asshole thought that up?

i have sensitive circuits running out of the housing with the shielding removed - i dont want a damned transmitter in the room!!
 :palm:
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2017, 05:12:12 am »
:-DD

HDMI is DVI-D signals on a cheap shitty connector with added digital audio and a license fee!!!
The connector has more than one function, which probably dictated the connector choice. Other than that, it's just DVI with some stuff added, so there isn't much to fault.

The 4 channel models will have WiFi and Webserver. This way you can replicate and command the unit from a PC using the browser. and the IP address of the unit. Not bad for a entry level unit.
That sounds horrible. Unless there is fast and effective support for any bugs and security flaws found for the next 10-15 years, which there inevitably won't be, it sounds like a huge security liability. Companies just don't seem to learn that hooking things up to the internet is the easy part. It's effectively supporting it and making sure things are safe that's the hard part. Having a botnet running on your oscilloscope isn't much fun, having it being an entry point for further compromise is even worse.

You know what they say: the "S" in IoT stands for security.
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2017, 05:12:43 am »
not for me, i dont want RF emissions on my workbench.
what asshole thought that up?

i have sensitive circuits running out of the housing with the shielding removed - i dont want a damned transmitter in the room!!
 :palm:
Well, you can still use the LAN cable for the same application
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2017, 05:16:54 am »
The 4 channel models will have WiFi and Webserver. This way you can replicate and command the unit from a PC using the browser. and the IP address of the unit. Not bad for a entry level unit.
That sounds horrible. Unless there is fast and effective support for any bugs and security flaws found for the next 10-15 years, which there inevitably won't be, it sounds like a huge security liability. Companies just don't seem to learn that hooking things up to the internet is the easy part. It's effectively supporting it and making sure things are safe that's the hard part. Having a botnet running on your oscilloscope isn't much fun, having it being an entry point for further compromise is even worse.

You know what they say: the "S" in IoT stands for security.
[/quote]
We will test the device as soon as we get them (possibly end of the year).
To be honest we have several companies asking for webserver compatibility, so we have to think that part of the market is looking for it.
However we can only comment about the workability after we test them.
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2017, 05:22:45 am »
not for me, i dont want RF emissions on my workbench.
what asshole thought that up?

i have sensitive circuits running out of the housing with the shielding removed - i dont want a damned transmitter in the room!!
 :palm:
Fine, then turn it OFF.  :P
It's a USB dongle, not inbuilt and it's optional. The functionality is inbuilt into the UI.

Of course it won't suit everybody, it's just another form of connectivity to add to USB and LAN for the inbuilt web server.
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2017, 05:28:24 am »
We will test the device as soon as we get them (possibly end of the year).
To be honest we have several companies asking for webserver compatibility, so we have to think that part of the market is looking for it.
However we can only comment about the workability after we test them.
Again, people asking for webserver compatibility are asking for it being done in a secure fashion. Unfortunately, recent history tells us that this is rarely the case. The security of networked devices is generally atrocious and no more than an afterthought. Properly securing and supporting networked devices is a serious, long term investment very few companies are able or willing to take. Even companies who have networking as a core business run afoul of this regularly. Not too long ago, a huge botnet running on IP camaras and was uncovered. Putting something on the internet is a serious thing that's underestimated by pretty much everyone.

Workability is only of concern after it's actually safe.
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2017, 05:56:18 am »
Putting something on the internet is a serious thing that's underestimated by pretty much everyone.

Nowdays people seem to forget subtle meaning behind term LAN:
Local Area Network.
Just use local physically isolated network for lab devices.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2017, 06:51:57 am »
Nowdays people seem to forget subtle meaning behind term LAN:
Local Area Network.
Just use local physically isolated network for lab devices.
Calling it LAN instead of ethernet does not absolve the manufacturer from its responsibilities regarding security, nor does my ability to isolate networks.

We're not even talking about the thing apparently having a webserver on board.
 

Offline technogeeky

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2017, 07:32:06 am »
 :-DD

the racism and comments about the security of optional features that nobody in this thread could have possibly evaluated

 :-DD
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2017, 07:53:06 am »
:-DD

the racism and comments about the security of optional features that nobody in this thread could have possibly evaluated

 :-DD
Racism? What racism? That doesn't seem to make sense.

While probably technically true that the security features have not been evaluated, it also pretty much fully irrelevant. Networked devices have a terrible track record when it comes to network security and there is no reason this device would be different. I will eat my words when Siglent announces 15, 10 or even 5 years of regular security updates for it, but I don't think anyone will be holding his breath. Unless the law starts dictating that the software and associated updates are as much part of a device as the hardware is, the situation is unlikely to improve.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2017, 08:08:30 am »
A piece of test equipment has no place on an insecure network so security isn't necessary. Worse, it will probably in the way of regular use anyway. Imagine having to access a scope using SSH from a piece of software  :scared: The overhead alone is going to be a problem and how are lab technicians going to troubleshoot network problems? So in reality test equipment is always on local networks which are not accessible from the outside.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2017, 08:19:57 am »
A piece of test equipment has no place on an insecure network so security isn't necessary. Worse, it will probably in the way of regular use anyway. Imagine having to access a scope using SSH from a piece of software  :scared: The overhead alone is going to be a problem and how are lab technicians going to troubleshoot network problems? So in reality test equipment is always on local networks which are not accessible from the outside.
You're not understanding the problem. This type of hardware may very well make the network insecure, rather than it being put on an insecure network. We'll have to see how that effectively works out, but history isn't painting a pretty picture. Also, let's not be naive. These scopes will at least in part end up in places with little to no IT support. They shouldn't be a risk to the local network, period. That means it needs properly developed and tested software, which gets updated on a regular basis. It will be interesting to see if and how Siglent deals with that part.
 


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