Author Topic: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z  (Read 4191 times)

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Offline laus

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Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« on: February 24, 2018, 04:18:46 am »
I pulled the trigger and purchased the Siglent SDS1204X-E for a little north of 700 UDS with discount.  Found out that the unit is back ordered and won't be shipped for at least a month.  Now I doubt myself again and wonder if I should downgrade to the Rigol DS1054Z.  |O

Since it's just for hobby I don't need the oscilloscope right now, so waiting is OK.  This would be my first oscilloscope although I did get to play with some in the past.  Yes, it means that I'm not quite sure what I'd really need (2ch vs 4ch, bandwidth, sampling rate, etc).  I expect my usage to be with electronic projects in amateur radio and arduino area along with some just curious educational tests and [pipe dream] some trouble shooting and repair.  Yes, that still doesn't tell much what I might "need".

I enjoy quality and useful equipment.  For example I purchased an $600 antenna analyzer (RigExpert AA-600) and never looked back at the price because it's such a joy to use.  That said, while the SDS1204X-E doesn't make me starve it is a good junk of my savings (i.e. money doesn't grow on trees for me either).

The major difference that I identified between the SDS1204X-E and DS1054Z are:

* 200Mhz vs 50Mhz (100Mhz hacked)
* 1GSA/s vs 500MSa/s 2ch (500MSa/s vs 250MSa/s 4ch)
* 100,000 vs 30,000 wfms/s
* 14M vs 28M point memory depth
* 256 vs 64 levels intensity grading
* Rigol requires hacking for the higher bandwidth, not sure what that means with warranty, etc.

I know, ultimately I have to make the decision and I have been reading way to much opinions on this forum (although most are between the DS1054Z and SDS1202X-E).  Should I just stick with my decision and wait for the Siglent or am I being really stupid not to get the Rigol and hack? 
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 08:40:31 am by laus »
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2018, 04:55:14 am »
hello, I bought a few days ago a rigol ds1054z in tequipment, price u $ s 440 shipment included to Argentina, to that we must add customs taxes, buy after having led comparisons with other teams, and read many comments from users. I'm going to use it with small electronics and arduino projects, it comes with the licenses and 100mhz I launch it, I think I do not need more and that mine is hooby, I've seen many good oscilloscopes, but this complied with the three BBBs I'm looking for, GOOD, Pretty and cheap. Enjoy yours, if you read after buying, regret that something bad has everyone, and then, if he serves you and leaves your problem of finished content.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 04:58:08 am by Adrian_Arg. »
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2018, 05:13:31 am »
* Rigol requires hacking for the higher bandwidth, not sure what that means with warranty, etc.

Hacking means absolutely nothing warranty wise. The "hacks" can be uninstalled by a single command sent over the network (or over USB). I sent my DS2072A back to Rigol for a minor warranty issue with no problems.
 

Offline BillB

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2018, 05:22:27 am »
I just picked up the SDS1104X-E and am very pleased with it.  I was in a similar position as you, and am glad I waited for the Siglent.  There has been a great in-depth review done on the 1104 here, as most should apply to the 1204.  The Siglent being a newer design is faster, and has a ton of nice features.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2018, 07:13:30 am »
The major difference that I identified between the SDS1204X-E and DS1054Z are:

* 200Mhz vs 50Mhz (100Mhz hacked)
* 1GSA/s vs 500MSa/s 2ch (500MSa/s vs 250MSa/s 4ch)
* 100,000 vs 30,000 wfms/s
* 14M vs 28M point memory depth
* 256 vs 64 levels intensity grading
* Rigol requires hacking for the higher bandwidth, not sure what that means with warranty, etc.
SDS1204X-E has two 14M memory modules, one for each ADC.

Yes, supply is short ATM  but the additional features it offers will make it worth the wait.
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Offline laus

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2018, 08:44:30 am »
SDS1204X-E has two 14M memory modules, one for each ADC.

Thanks for pointing out that the memory is per ADC.
 

Offline aminor

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2018, 05:57:54 pm »
Hardware perspective :

Siglent is superior but since it is recently released, it packed with a bunch of software hidden bugs and system instability.

two 1 GSa/s ADCs vs One 1 GSa/s ADCs


This is the most important aspect in Oscilloscope in my opinion. Bandwidth is just a software define for lowest time rise it can capture to avoid missing wave changes in signal sampling. This if u are utilizing 2ch with dedicated ADC each ch then u'll get 1ns/sample capability meanwhile for software define with 200MHz BW it will get 5ns full cycle of a signal at the highest precision. 2.5ns/div is appropriate. Meant u'll get 5x data sampling per cycle. eg for sinusoidal, the graphic will be nice. but for Rigol DS1054Z with the same situation it will just get 5x sampling at 10ns timeline. imagine in 5ns. If u hacked or modified the software it will give such an inaccurate signal with distortion but with the software refining the sampling point continuity correction, it wont show an ugly rectangular signal distortion. But it is just perfect for digital logic serial signal up to 150Mhz. UART and SPI.

Software perspective :


Rigol DS1054Z won but with less capability


stable n far less buggy since been around like 3-4 years already with latest software updates. But there will be a lot of unnoticeable signal distortion at high freq (100MHz) if two ch were utilized simultaneously. since it is just software define bandwidth.

just my one cent opinion
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 06:04:13 pm by aminor »
 

Offline rhb

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2018, 04:24:43 am »
It's as much a matter of budget and expected use cases.  Starting out you're probably better served with a 50 MHz scope and a bit more money in the bank.  You will want more stuff.  I think the DS1054Z will hold its value if you find you need more bandwidth or an MSO.  Trust me, you *really* don't want to dive into stuff that needs a 200 MHz scope to start out.  Reality gets "interesting" above 10-20 MHz.  Probably more so than you're ready for.

I don't recommend hacking the BW of the Rigol unless you have a way of measuring the results which at a minimum is one of Leo Bodnar's pulse generators or similar.  Building your own pulse generator is only viable if you've got access to the lab gear to test it.  It's hard.  I tried several iterations 25 years ago and failed.  I was able to check it on a Tek 485 at work which is a 350 MHz scope.  I just wanted something fast enough to calibrate my 100 MHz Tek 465.  At the time I didn't fully appreciate that for sub nS rise time pulses "short" is 1 mm, not 2 cm.

I've had a Rigol DS1102E for several years and just got an Instek MSO-2204EA.  The step response of my  Rigol is much better than my Insteks.  There are lots of step response plots in the "yet another fast edge pulse generator"  thread.

You can see examples I posted here:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/yet-another-fast-edge-pulse-generator/msg1432180/#msg1432180
 

Offline wpwrak

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2018, 01:26:32 pm »
hello, I bought a few days ago a rigol ds1054z in tequipment, price u $ s 440 shipment included to Argentina,

Sorry for an off-topic question: how did things go with customs ? What carrier did you use for shipping ? There used to be issues with importing devices that connect to mains, due to not having Argentine approval ("Seguridad Electrica"), but I haven't tried in recent years. I was once told that a "work-around" would be to ask the sender to ship without a power cord, but I'm not sure how reliably that trick worked.

Thanks in advance !

- Werner
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2018, 03:20:14 pm »
hello, I bought a few days ago a rigol ds1054z in tequipment, price u $ s 440 shipment included to Argentina,

Sorry for an off-topic question: how did things go with customs ? What carrier did you use for shipping ? There used to be issues with importing devices that connect to mains, due to not having Argentine approval ("Seguridad Electrica"), but I haven't tried in recent years. I was once told that a "work-around" would be to ask the sender to ship without a power cord, but I'm not sure how reliably that trick worked.

Thanks in advance !

- Werner
He's had a hell of a time with it, see here:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rigol-ds1054z-109465/

Saving a few $ rather than buying local hasn't been worth it for him.
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Offline wpwrak

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2018, 05:10:46 pm »
He's had a hell of a time with it, see here:

So it seems that it made it through customs unscathed. Given that getting stuck at customs can mean a total economic loss (can't get it released, can't have it returned, certification would cost a fortune and probably take months, a bribe may be an option, but ...), that alone is already pretty good :-) Besides, a bit of warm-up time doesn't sound too hellish a problem to me.

Quote
Saving a few $ rather than buying local hasn't been worth it for him.

Well, I'm considering a Siglent SDS1204X-E and there don't seem to be any local sources for that series. The best Siglent scopes I could find around here, from the two local vendors Siglent list, would be the SDS1074CFL, SDS1104CFL, or SDS1202CNL+, neither of which would be of much use for me since I need reasonably deep memory. Maybe some instrument vendors could order the SDS1204X-E on my behalf, but - as I see Adrian also hints at in the probe compensation thread - they wouldn't really provide much added value beyond having more experience with getting it through customs.

Please don't get me wrong: I try to buy local whenever reasonable, but for some things that doesn't really work.

- Werner
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2018, 05:37:35 pm »
Saving a few $ rather than buying local hasn't been worth it for him.

Well, I'm considering a Siglent SDS1204X-E and there don't seem to be any local sources for that series. The best Siglent scopes I could find around here, from the two local vendors Siglent list, would be the SDS1074CFL, SDS1104CFL, or SDS1202CNL+, neither of which would be of much use for me since I need reasonably deep memory.
Please don't get me wrong: I try to buy local whenever reasonable, but for some things that doesn't really work.

- Werner
Refreshing to see someone quite prepared to support their local supplier.  :-+

Quote
Maybe some instrument vendors could order the SDS1204X-E on my behalf, but - as I see Adrian also hints at in the probe compensation thread - they wouldn't really provide much added value beyond having more experience with getting it through customs.
Just to be perfectly clear, SDS1004X-E models are unaffected by the 10x probe compensation issue.

Let me drop an email to Siglent sales and find out whom the Argentina distributors are.
Should have an answer for you soon.

 |O
They're on the Siglent how to buy page:

ELECTRO TOOLS ARGENTINA SRL

Address: HOLMBERG 3560, C.A.B.A

Tel: 54 11 4542-8312

ventas@electro-tools.com.ar

www.electro-tools.com.ar


TEMTEC S.A.

Address: Palestina 684 (C1182ADD) Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires

Tel: (54.11) 4862-0062

Fax: (54.11) 4862-0882

ventas@temtecsa.com.ar

www.temtecsa.com.ar
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 05:42:07 pm by tautech »
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Offline Spudlicious

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2018, 05:58:16 pm »
I pulled the trigger and purchased the Siglent SDS1204X-E for a little north of 700 UDS with discount.  Found out that the unit is back ordered and won't be shipped for at least a month.  Now I doubt myself again and wonder if I should downgrade to the Rigol DS1054Z.  |O

Since it's just for hobby I don't need the oscilloscope right now, so waiting is OK.  This would be my first oscilloscope although I did get to play with some in the past.  Yes, it means that I'm not quite sure what I'd really need (2ch vs 4ch, bandwidth, sampling rate, etc).  I expect my usage to be with electronic projects in amateur radio and arduino area along with some just curious educational tests and [pipe dream] some trouble shooting and repair.  Yes, that still doesn't tell much what I might "need".

I enjoy quality and useful equipment.  For example I purchased an $600 antenna analyzer (RigExpert AA-600) and never looked back at the price because it's such a joy to use.  That said, while the SDS1204X-E doesn't make me starve it is a good junk of my savings (i.e. money doesn't grow on trees for me either).

The major difference that I identified between the SDS1204X-E and DS1054Z are:

* 200Mhz vs 50Mhz (100Mhz hacked)
* 1GSA/s vs 500MSa/s 2ch (500MSa/s vs 250MSa/s 4ch)
* 100,000 vs 30,000 wfms/s
* 14M vs 28M point memory depth
* 256 vs 64 levels intensity grading
* Rigol requires hacking for the higher bandwidth, not sure what that means with warranty, etc.

I know, ultimately I have to make the decision and I have been reading way to much opinions on this forum (although most are between the DS1054Z and SDS1202X-E).  Should I just stick with my decision and wait for the Siglent or am I being really stupid not to get the Rigol and hack?

I'm late to this thread but I just want to say you did the right thing in ordering because we're all running out of time, and never mind that you don't have a lot of money. At the age of 70 and living on pension I just bought my first scope, an SDS1202X-E, because why not? Enjoy your interests while you can, everyone should do that.
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Offline wpwrak

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2018, 07:11:03 pm »
They're on the Siglent how to buy page:

Thanks ! These are the local sources I mentioned, that only have the SDS1000Cxx series models that seem quite obsolete.

Sadly, the local market is not as well-developed as one might expect.

- Werner
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2018, 07:25:20 pm »
They're on the Siglent how to buy page:

Thanks ! These are the local sources I mentioned, that only have the SDS1000Cxx series models that seem quite obsolete.

Sadly, the local market is not as well-developed as one might expect.

- Werner
I wonder why your local guys haven't woken up to at least the 2ch SDS1kX series, they're the intermediary series before the X-E's and either are in another world from the old C*L or even newer + models.
Maybe they need a push.....from you ?
Or is the marketplace over there very sensitive to pricing ?

If you're prepared to wait get them to get a SDS1104X-E for you. If they've never seen one before and 'really know' what they're looking at they won't bring in any more C*L models.......I don't !
Best of luck with your DSO hunt.  :)
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Offline Bob Sava

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2018, 11:56:10 pm »
Does Siglent sell it's products on consignment or wholesale?  I'm guessing wholesale, therefore, sellers have to clear-out their old inventory before getting new products for obvious reasons.

As to the scopes, I think the 'killer' feature of Siglent 1x04X-E is 1Gsa/ch rate when using two channels and 500Gsa/ch with four.  On the other hand, regarding Siglent's user interface, lets just say that I'm looking forward to supposed improvements.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 12:08:01 am by Bob Sava »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2018, 06:18:38 am »
Does Siglent sell it's products on consignment or wholesale?  I'm guessing wholesale, therefore, sellers have to clear-out their old inventory before getting new products for obvious reasons.
I pay up front then wait for delivery.....  :=\

Then make decisions on what to stock based on demand and what I alone what to back into the marketplace.
But geographical location could work against some dealers where airfreight costs are prohibitive and sea freight delays mean you're always late to the marketplace.
Currently ordering monthly to meet demand and to get the models or quantities requested that I don't/can't/won't stock. Such is the ongoing stock juggling act of a small distributor.  ::)

Quote
As to the scopes, I think the 'killer' feature of Siglent 1x04X-E is 1Gsa/ch rate when using two channels and 500Gsa/ch with four.
Partially, yes but the 4ch X-E's are a very well featured DSO in a small package and even if you don't immediately need all they can do......they're a scope you can grow into....by starting simple and add the options as needed later.
What suits you doesn't suit another buyer that might want 'split screen' (aka Dual timebase) or the free decoders.
Every customer has differing needs and skill sets to allow workarounds with the tools on hand.
When we find the perfect scope......well  :phew: Not been built yet !

Quote
On the other hand, regarding Siglent's user interface, lets just say that I'm looking forward to supposed improvements.
There's new FW due soon and it will be interesting as what further enhancements are added but don't expect too many.....just some 'polish' to what's existing already.
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Offline wpwrak

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2018, 08:36:48 am »
I wonder why your local guys haven't woken up to at least the 2ch SDS1kX series, they're the intermediary series before the X-E's and either are in another world from the old C*L or even newer + models.

The X series may have come out just at the wrong time: the previous government believed in isolating the local economy and to implement other blessings known from Brezhnev-era Russia. Fortunately, all that changed at the end of 2015. One result of such isolation was that it became very difficult to import anything, and the variety of available products in any given category dwindled.

The X-E came out when things had already improved significant, so I'm not sure why nobody picked it up. It could be due to market size.

Quote
Maybe they need a push.....from you ?

Heh, I'll probably ask a local Siglent distributor, one where I've already bought some equipment, but I don't have high hopes. Also, even if the local market is small, I won't make much of a difference.

Quote
Or is the marketplace over there very sensitive to pricing ?

Oh yes, extremely. E.g., if you search on the local equivalent of eBay, you get treated to a collection of bottom-end scopes with tiny memories, plus an army of Owons effortlessly positioning themselves as the pinnacle of technology. Also, local prices tend to be about twice of what you'd pay abroad. So even "cheap" isn't.

Anyway, the *Cxx series - for similar analog bandwidth and number of ports - don't seem to cost less than the *X* ?

Quote
If you're prepared to wait get them to get a SDS1104X-E for you. If they've never seen one before and 'really know' what they're looking at they won't bring in any more C*L models.......I don't !

Heh, that probably works better with me showing off my latest gadgets to friends who work in academia. They then get to spread the word. My current project of that kind is to "plant" a Chinese SoC (Ingenic X1000) that hasn't quite made it into the Western hemisphere yet. Let's see how that goes.

Quote
Best of luck with your DSO hunt.  :)

Thanks ! :)

- Werner
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E vs Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2018, 09:11:47 am »
Anyway, the *Cxx series - for similar analog bandwidth and number of ports - don't seem to cost less than the *X* ?
Yeah, that's the thing, for those that can read a datasheet it's bloody obvious (to me anyway) what's better value for the $ and now specs like full BW 500uV/div, decode, history etc are all included as part of the package one would think the X-E's would be priced entirely in a different bracket but they ain't.

The CML's used to be my best seller but with SDS1202X-E's for just a few $ more it just doesn't make sense to stock any C*L's as I always think I'm selling the customer short-changed for the capabilities they could buy.

4 channel models are a bit different and slowly becoming the norm as more and more get into digital applications but they generally know what they need.

Interesting times.
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